Thanks for the Saluki reference, Repoz.

I believe that Vince Lombardi said something similar wrt politics in a Paul ZImmerman book.

Gruden is supposedly a workaholic even by NFL standards. I have read that he gets up at 3 am to go to the office. Don't know if that is still true; he has been around awhile.

Gruden is supposedly a workaholic even by NFL standards. I have read that he gets up at 3 am to go to the office. Don't know if that is still true; he has been around awhile.

Nah, that's just his cover story so he can get some on the side.

Nah, that's just his cover story so he can get some on the side.

Must be. The NFL put in a regulation limiting the amount of time head-coaches are allowed to spend in the office.

Must be. The NFL put in a regulation limiting the amount of time head-coaches are allowed to spend in the office.]

I have never heard of that. Sounds unenforceable.

Other people have mentioned that the workload of NFL coaches isn't necessary and that the coaches believe that they have to work absurd hours because that is what other coaches do. It has become a self fulfilling prophecy.

I can tell you that long hours has in no way helped Herm Edwards understand how to coach a professional football team. I read an article that mentioned he had to break into the Jets practice facility to work out and watch tape at some absurd hour. He might be in great shape, but he is still an awful coach.

If Szym didn't ban kevin, he could have come in here to tell us that unlike Gruden, we're all goldbrickers and we don't know what it's like to work in an important position. I'm porety sure that George Allen was the coach that started the whole 100 hour work week.

when was kevin banned?

Must have been just recently, if it happened. If true, it's funny. Homophobic attacks on an entire group of posters here won't get you banned, but calling Syzm an idiot will.

Gruden doesn't get much return for his workaholic nature... as Vince Verhei of Football Outsiders wrote about last weeks game: "Nice game plan there, Jon Gruden, mixing in a whopping 12 carries in the first half against 16 pass plays. And the rushing plays gained more yards, 94-54. Do you not watch film or scout opponents? Were you not aware of how wretched the Denver run defense is? Did you not even recognize the success you were having?"

He has a point, for a man who should know exactly what works against an opponent from watching all that game tape, Chucky is surprisingly abominable at exploiting those weaknesses.

I think kevin got banned yesterday afternoon. I haven't seen him around since then, and prior to that he was a regular feature on my Hot Topics sidebar. He seemed to be on amphetamines since the end of the ALDS.

Suspended is the correct term. I apologize. There was some thread where Szymborski said that kevin was gone for 30. He didn't specify what 30 meant. 30 days? 30 hours? 30 miles?

Oh, and he doesn't just disagree with Szymborski. Recently he called Walt Davis a ditchdigger (Post 59) and Nieporent a retard (Post 389). Now I know that Dave isn't the most popular guy here, but does he deserve that? Does he? Look, if kevin pissed me off, he must've been driving alot of other people crazy. Snapper wound up dropping the f-bomb and telling him off in post 64 of that first thread and I almost did that too in those threads, but he managed to not to cross the line and get personal with me.

I just made some enemy lists by defending Nieporent, didn't I? Oh, and for the record, I don't see eye to eye with Dan Szymborski all the time either. I've told him that i sometimes find his Transaction Oracle posts to be mean-spirited stuff worthy of BPro, yet we're still friends. I don't think that he's vindictive. Please don't tell me this is about some political disagreements you guys have. This is one reason why I normally avoid the political threads. I'm might really make enemies.

If you can make an enemy of someone for defending Nieporent, they weren't your friend to start.

My point is doing this now is kinda nutty, since Kevin has been this way for MONTHS, and equally abusive to other posters as he was to Walt Davis. And while calling DMN a retard is dumb, it's hardly the worst thing that's been said about him on this website. Heck, I've probably said worse about him. The simple fact is, Kevin's been a jerkwad for months, if not years, and he doesn't get a temporary ban until he pisses off Syzmborski. Which IIRC is similar to what happened to Rob Base. He had gone round the bend well before getting banned, it was only once he went after Syzm that he got banned (and then permabanned after he came back and was an even bigger jerk).

I'm not defending Kevin, I'm just sayin' that there's a good way to get banned here, and it isn't just by insulting other posters (if that were the case, Fred C. Dobbs would have been long gone).

I saw that as Dan giving him a long rope. You see it differently. Fair enough. Are we cool? As for Dobbs, has he been around long? I've only seen him recently.

I just wanna say the screen name Fred C. Dobbs is perfect for that guy.

Isn't Dan Sym a bit of a libertarian?

Oh, and hi Gary.

edit to say hi...

Dobbs has been around over a year now, since August of 07 I believe.

And you could be right. I didn't mean to come off as antagonistic, I was just saying that it's not like Kevin didn't have a long history of being a meanie, so it's a bit troubling that he doesn't get suspended until he irritates the mod.

Kevin's been warned repeatedly in recent months. We chose to give him a lot of slack.

I wasn't even involved with the Rob Base thing and I don't think we ever had an encounter.

Levski and Rob were both temporarily suspended during a particularly nasty fight. Jim told them both he'd immediately reinstate them if they promised to behave. Levski agreed, was reinstated in less than an hour, and has been a model citizen since. Rob told Jim that Rob would do whatever the #### Rob wanted, Jim left the suspension, and Rob kept using proxies and registering a bunch of names like "Jim ######### ##### Dogs." Even after all that, Jim kept telling him he'd reinstate Rob if he promised to be good and Rob refused.

Last time we warned Kevin, he informed us that we should be paying him for the traffic he brings in because he's what people visit BTF for. This time, he's going to have to do a bit better than that.

Scott is right about one thing - we waited too long to deal with Kevin aggressively. For those that have been bullied, harrassed, or stalked by Kevin in the last 2 or 3 years, you have my sincere apologies for not dealing with the problem sooner. Only one regular has ever been banned long-term (Rob Base) and it's something we really try to avoid doing.

I was mistaken then, I thought you'd been involved in trying to settle Base down. My apologies. Again, my only beef was the timing behind the (overdue) suspension of Kevin. Your post more than adequately explains that. Thank you.

Um, hi, tfbg.

Now that the Cubs season is over, Fred C. Dobbs has nothing to talk about until the offseason when he can mock the Cubs' free agent signings and trades.

This is one reason why I normally avoid the political threads.

About the only bigger waste than a political thread on a sports bb is a sports thread on a political bb.

Dan, you might consider posting a meta-discussion thread when stuff like this and the closing of threads happens. Otherwise, it tends to spill over into 90 other threads.

Scott is right about one thing - we waited too long to deal with Kevin aggressively. For those that have been bullied, harrassed, or stalked by Kevin in the last 2 or 3 years, you have my sincere apologies for not dealing with the problem sooner. Only one regular has ever been banned long-term (Rob Base) and it's something we really try to avoid doing.

I don't want to kick dirt on the grave, but thank God someone finally did something about him. I don't recall kevin ever coming after me personally (either as me or as UCCF), but the tone that his posts set - and the fact that nothing ever happened to him - made it seem acceptable for everyone to act that way. And too many people did.

Really, the overall tone of the site has nosedived over the past couple of years, as Bonds and steroids and the endless political discussions have basically taken over BTF. If it were just confined to the political threads (which, BTW, have no real place on this board - if the Lounge and its discussions of 80s pop culture and relationship problems deserved to be stuck in the forums, then these endless political debates deserve to be there too), it would be one thing. But the rancorous and attacking mentality worms its way into the baseball threads as well. I know people who have basically left because it no longer was worth wading through the crap and the insults.

Also - terms of service:

BBTF asks you to not use vulgarity, profanity or insults in your comments. You are free to disagree (even vehemently) with what other members of the BBTF community have to say, but we ask that you do so in a respectful manner.

Go into any thread of any real length and look for the posts that clearly violate the TOS against profanity, insults, and treating other people with respect. You won't have to look very hard.

i welcome our new vanilla btf overlords.

I don't want to kick dirt on the grave, but thank God someone finally did something about him. I don't recall kevin ever coming after me personally (either as me or as UCCF), but the tone that his posts set - and the fact that nothing ever happened to him - made it seem acceptable for everyone to act that way. And too many people did.

Really, the overall tone of the site has nosedived over the past couple of years, as Bonds and steroids and the endless political discussions have basically taken over BTF. If it were just confined to the political threads (which, BTW, have no real place on this board - if the Lounge and its discussions of 80s pop culture and relationship problems deserved to be stuck in the forums, then these endless political debates deserve to be there too), it would be one thing. But the rancorous and attacking mentality worms its way into the baseball threads as well. I know people who have basically left because it no longer was worth wading through the crap and the insults.

I was wondering where UCCF had gone. Good to see you're still around.

And I've long thought that Kevin's style (and ubiquitousness) may have led other posters to depart the site. Of course, never having met any posters and only communicating through e-mail with a handful of people, I had no way of knowing.

That said, I hope he can come back considerably less antagonistic than he's been, particularly over the last couple of weeks.

I just realized that I haven't seen too many PED discussions lately.

Really, the overall tone of the site has nosedived over the past couple of years, as Bonds and steroids and the endless political discussions have basically taken over BTF. If it were just confined to the political threads (which, BTW, have no real place on this board - if the Lounge and its discussions of 80s pop culture and relationship problems deserved to be stuck in the forums, then these endless political debates deserve to be there too), it would be one thing.

Good to see you back, UCCF. By the way, the Lounge is now more likely to feature child-rearing tips than relationship problems. You haven't lurked in a while, I see. '80's sitcoms and discussions of what you're watching on TV remain alarmingly prevalent, though. At least good recipes get posted frequently.

Kevin banned? This is really exciting. I might actually start reading this site again (for 30 days, anyway).

About three or four years ago this was probably my most visited site, I hardly ever come anymore because it has grown pretty juvenile.

I was always more of a lurker (other than on White Sox threads), so while on one hand I probably don't mean much to the site, on the other, I don't think BTF wants to alienate people who used it for news and "thinking" discussion.

Anyway, this is a positive development.

About three or four years ago this was probably my most visited site, I hardly ever come anymore because it has grown pretty juvenile.

Ditto.

I don't know if it is realized just how much damage to the site was caused by allowing kevin's shenanigans to take over the site. He, and to a lesser extent his cronies, coarsened the environment to such a massive degree that it drove people away.

I mean we still come back from time to time. This site does have a bit of a monopoly that it exploits. But it is not what it was or what it could be.

I am closing this thread to new comments.

To continue discussion of this topic, please proceed to the Primer Lounge.