Ha! I knew Ozzie was going to be a disaster as a manager who would end up ripping his players and probably get himself fired. And I was only off by...three years and one World Series win.

Let's call that half-credit.

It's going to be a very ugly ending for Ozzie.

at least he didn't call them fags

Do they have the death penalty in Illinois?

Not at the moment. They kept condemning innocent people, so Ryan put a moratorium on the death penalty in 2000, and in 2003, he commuted to life the sentences of all prisoners sentenced to death.

at least he didn't call them fags

See! Sensitivity training works!

I wish I played for a manager like that. I swear to God I wish I could have played for a (expletive) manager like that.

I wonder what Brandon McCarthy thinks...

I did hear Ozzie use the phrase "wide stancers" I don't have any idea what that means.

I did hear Ozzie use the phrase "wide stancers"

If you're going to talk about Bobby Jenks' weight, Oz, just come out and say it.

I knew Ozzie was going to be a disaster as a manager who would end up ripping his players and probably get himself fired.

Ozzie Guillen's team has the 2nd worst record in the major leagues. If he gets fired it's going to be because of that and that alone, not because he ripped his players. Guillen's been an opinionated and foul-mouthed jackass for probably decades and the White Sox knew exactly what they were getting when they hired him. He's not going to be fired for saying that his players suck; if he's fired, it'll be because his players suck.

[And I'll just add: I don't expect the White Sox to fire him this offseason anyway. Jerry Reinsdorf supposedly loves him like a son and that World Series trophy bought an incredible amount of goodwill for him.]

Yeah, George Ryan did a few surprisingly good things as governor--though I voted for his opponent in 1998, Glenn Poshard, it's hard to imagine Poshard having the guts to go against the screeching law-and-order types and stop the death penalty.

Too bad Ryan got to the governor's office via a thoroughly corrupt career in politics and is likely to be in jail soon.
And, hell, if the investigations swirling around Blagojevich coalesce, he and Ryan could maybe end up sharing a cell. We Illinoisans can be proud.

Yeah, George Ryan did a few surprisingly good things as governor--though I voted for his opponent in 1998, Glenn Poshard, it's hard to imagine Poshard having the guts to go against the screeching law-and-order types and stop the death penalty.

Too bad Ryan got to the governor's office via a thoroughly corrupt career in politics and is likely to be in jail soon.

In a perverse kind of way, Ryan's career corruption may have helped make him a better governor. His career was finished and he had no hope of re-election, so there was no political downside to the death penalty moratorium/commutation. If he'd been planning to run for a second term, would he have been as willing to do that?

I don't expect the White Sox to fire him this offseason anyway.

I don't know about that. When Ozzie says this:

"Every time you fail and keep putting guys out there who fail day in and day out, that's easy to play."

"A $100 million payroll and those guys don't show how much they make in the field. Well, Kenny [Williams], I don't say what he has to do, but we play like this and spend all that money on the club like that, I will shut the payroll and go with Double-A kids if we have to, because it's not easy. I know those guys go out there and they care about it."

Those are strong words- he's essentially accused the entire team of quitting. And when the article makes a point of saying the clubhouse is empty, it sounds like he's lost the team.

So it seems to me that Reinsdorf/Williams' decision for the offseason is either blow up the team, or fire Ozzie. I know what I'd do. I actually think Ozzie's an OK manager, but if I was running the ChiSox, I wouldn't consider it worth it to have to put up with his continuous PR ########.

Those are strong words- he's essentially accused the entire team of quitting.

But anybody who's paid any attention to Ozzie Guillen for the last decade shouldn't be at all surprised by these words. They're also true - it's just that most managers are too tactful to say it out loud.

I actually think Ozzie's an OK manager, but if I was running the ChiSox, I wouldn't consider it worth it to have to put up with his continuous PR ########.

I don't necessarily disagree - if I were running the Sox, I'd think about firing both Guillen and Williams this offseason (although I probably would give them both another year to see if they can bounce back) - but I don't think the PR ######## (whatever's hiding behind those 8 #'s) is any different than what the Sox expected when they hired him, so I really don't think that's going to play into it.

I think when Ozzie gets fired eventually (this offseason or after some later season), I think the media's going to blame his loose tongue for doing him in. I just think they'll be wrong about that - he'll be fired for losing too many baseball games, period.

I doubt most players will take what Guillen said to heart. He's speaking in vague enough terms that any one guy could say, "Some of the other guys have quit, but I know I haven't."

Guillen is tired of his coaching staff taking the blame.

"Hit and run, it fails," Guillen said. "Fail to move the guy over with the bases loaded, no outs. Second and third, one out (and don't score). You keep failing like that, well, Greg Walker doesn't hit. Ozzie Guillen doesn't hit. Don Cooper isn't pitching. Then have fun."

I guess having Jim F. Thome on second running with the pitch with one out was Pierzynski's fault. AJ fouled off at least two pitches before he missed one, and Thome was running on each of 'em. What was the point, I asked myself, except to put more pressure on Pierzynski?

I don't blame Cooper for any of this. However, Walker doesn't seem to be helping anyone. Maybe they've tuned him out.

I think when Ozzie gets fired eventually (this offseason or after some later season), I think the media's going to blame his loose tongue for doing him in. I just think they'll be wrong about that - he'll be fired for losing too many baseball games, period.

Yup.

I think that, unless Guillen up and quits, he'll be the manager next year. But I do think that Ken Williams will try to contend next year, and when the team falls on its face again, Guillen will get blamed.

But there's no getting around the fact that the team is terrible - I don't think Casey Stengel could win with this cast of characters. There are starting to be calls in Chicago to get rid of Guillen or at least shake up the coaching staff, but that won't change anything. What will change things is bringing in some guys who can play baseball.

Oh, and most certainly we have the death penalty in IL. Death Row is kind of unpopulated right now thanks to Ryan's correct response to a corrupted judicial system, but it is free to fill back up as the current system permits.

The reason Ryan did what he did about Death Row was political grandstanding in an attempt to sway public opinion to his side, possibly mixed in with a tinge of guilt at having run a corrupt Secretary of State's office that indirectly led to loss of lives on the highway. He's supposed to go to jail very soon--I will be well satisfied when he does.

I guess having Jim F. Thome on second running with the pitch with one out was Pierzynski's fault. AJ fouled off at least two pitches before he missed one, and Thome was running on each of 'em. What was the point, I asked myself, except to put more pressure on Pierzynski?

Well, it wasn't like Andy Gonzalez was about to drive anyone in.

Those sorts of tactical decisions are head-scratchers, but they're not the big problem. The larger problem is that the lineup last night had five hitters with an OPS below .650. Five, in a DH league! And I wish I could say that it was a getaway lineup - those were the best nine guys the Sox could field. You're not going to score many runs with that lineup. I don't blame Guillen for trying some wacky baserunning to try and get something going.

And I wish I could say that it was a getaway lineup - those were the best nine guys the Sox could field.

Is Dye out with an injury? Having Erstad in right instead of Dye is not the best choice, but maybe he's nicked up. I assumed that Dye was just getting a day off, but maybe I missed something.

I agree with Kiko's comments, generally.

Those sorts of tactical decisions are head-scratchers, but they're not the big problem. The larger problem is that the lineup last night had five hitters with an OPS below .650. Five, in a DH league! And I wish I could say that it was a getaway lineup - those were the best nine guys the Sox could field. You're not going to score many runs with that lineup. I don't blame Guillen for trying some wacky baserunning to try and get something going.

This is the major problem. I don't know who to blame, obviously things aren't working out the way Kenny hoped, but Guillen is running Owens, Gonzales, Erstad, and Uribe out there. And, I know the team is bare, but even if it weren't, he'd still run Owens and Gonzales out there. He's proved that many times this year. Ozzie's lineup construction has always, always sucked. He's a huge huge believer in the "fast guy" batting 1st. So, Jerry Owens leads off even if he couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. Jerry Owens will lead off if he's playing and Ozzie is the manager. That will never change. He's a grinder! He's fast! He's really really shitty!

I don't expect the White Sox to fire him this offseason anyway.

I didn't, but I'm starting to turn. You can't blow up like this and still expect to get respect. Guillen said it, the payroll is $100 million. It's much cheaper to replace Ozzie than to replace $100 million in players.

Ozzie is very very much like Larry Bowa. Winning the World Series buys him a lot of leeway, but as I said last week, this is year 4. 3 of Ozzie's years have been poor, 1 has been phenomenal. I'll use the old Rob Neyer/Sesame St. test. "One of these things is not like the other." Even if you say he can't win a World Series every year, fine, 3 of those years have been losing seasons, 1 winning. In a vaccuum, it doesn't appear that Ozzie is a good manager.

Those sorts of tactical decisions are head-scratchers, but they're not the big problem. The larger problem is that the lineup last night had five hitters with an OPS below .650. Five, in a DH league! And I wish I could say that it was a getaway lineup - those were the best nine guys the Sox could field. You're not going to score many runs with that lineup. I don't blame Guillen for trying some wacky baserunning to try and get something going.

I dislike Guillen a lot and want to see him fired, but that sounds like the GM's fault, not the manager.

Winning the World Series buys him a lot of leeway, but as I said last week, this is year 4. 3 of Ozzie's years have been poor, 1 has been phenomenal.

How could he have done better in 2004, with both Magglio and Frank injured, no fifth starter and a makeshift back end of the bullpen that began with Billy Koch as the closer?

Even if you say he can't win a World Series every year, fine, 3 of those years have been losing seasons, 1 winning. In a vaccuum, it doesn't appear that Ozzie is a good manager.

Actually, this is Guillen's first losing season. They won 83 games in 2004 and 90 games in 2006.

How could he have done better in 2004

Ok, fine, throw it out. 2 out of 3 have sucked.

a makeshift back end of the bullpen that began with Billy Koch as the closer

Who kept throwing Koch out as a closer? Just because the GM does something doesn't mean the manager has to follow through.

Even if you say he can't win a World Series every year, fine, 3 of those years have been losing seasons, 1 winning.

This is Guillen's first losing season, no?

Who kept throwing Koch out as a closer? Just because the GM does something doesn't mean the manager has to follow through.

Who would've been a better solution? Marte was the only viable option, and he would've been a waste starting an inning. Shingo eventually did the job, but he proved why he wasn't a viable long-term option the next year. Mike F. Jackson was working in tough situations that year, so he didn't have any big arms.

He did a fine job in '04 considering the weak bullpen, the fifth starter couldn't win a game and Timo Perez and Joe Borchard took over for Magglio.

If the White sox can Guillen they aren't too bright. He is one of the better managers in baseball.

Who would've been a better solution? Marte was the only viable option, and he would've been a waste starting an inning. Shingo eventually did the job, but he proved why he wasn't a viable long-term option the next year. Mike F. Jackson was working in tough situations that year, so he didn't have any big arms.

I actually thought that Guillen did a good job of cutting bait on Koch that year, and another good job of cutting bait on Takatsu the following year. His lefty-righty Tony LaRussa crap can get annoying, but overall I've always liked how he handles a pitching staff.

Shingo eventually did the job, but he proved why he wasn't a viable long-term option the next year

But that's not Ozzie's job to worry about next year. His job is to worry about winning games this year, it's the GM's job to worry about next year.

If the White sox can Guillen they aren't too bright. He is one of the better managers in baseball.

His bullpen handling has always been good. His lineup construction and playing time allocation are ####### terrible.

I think the Sox took a turn for the worse when they traded away Rowand. I know they got Thome for him, but I happen to think Rowand's overall contributions were really, really important, since it opened up a gaping hole in CF. That's on Williams, not Guillen.

Man... how do you go from the most dominant single-season team of the decade to that mess in only two years.

Man... how do you go from the most dominant single-season team of the decade to that mess in only two years.

I don't know how Vince or JRE feel, but I'll take it. At the end of the day, I can go watch my DVD and think back to how fun '05 was. Flags fly forever. It's better than being a Cub fan.

I think the Sox took a turn for the worse when they traded away Rowand. I know they got Thome for him, but I happen to think Rowand's overall contributions were really, really important, since it opened up a gaping hole in CF.

I still think they should have kept Rowand and Frank Thomas last year, but that's a whole other argument that I don't feel like re-hashing for the thousandth time.

Thome's been about as good as one can expect.

Taken one at a time, each move that Ken Williams has made over the past two years can be defended. It's only when you step back and look at where the team is that you start to realise how deeply flawed the team's roster construction was. The team was depending on aging and/or injury-prone players to carry the offense, and stocked the bench with scrappy utility players who can't hit a lick. It was a recipe for disaster.

The failure of the bullpen I'll pass over a little. I still think the premise (stockpile a bunch of live arms and see if some of them can stick) is a sound one, it just didn't work out as well as you'd expect.

At the end of the day, I can go watch my DVD and think back to how fun '05 was. Flags fly forever.

This season would be a lot more painful had the Sox bombed out in '05, that's for sure.

I actually thought that Guillen did a good job of cutting bait on Koch that year, and another good job of cutting bait on Takatsu the following year.

I totally agree with this, and add that he didn't let Hermanson linger in the closer role later that year when his back made him ineffective and Jenks's performance was clearly better, even though Hermanson was "proven."

His lefty-righty Tony LaRussa crap can get annoying, but overall I've always liked how he handles a pitching staff.

I agree here, too.

I also don't think Jerry Owens would get this much leeway if the Sox were in contention. And as for Andy González, he sat around practically unused for three weeks when Pods and Erstad were healthy and Fields was still playing third. Once they decided to give Fields a tryout in left, with Cintrón not available (not that he's a good option either), there wasn't anyone else available to play third.

Do they have the death penalty in Illinois?

Not at the moment.

Technically IL still has it, but Ryan and now Blago won't sign off on any death sentences. Has anyone been sent to death row by a jury since Ryan's big pardon?

Yeah, George Ryan did a few surprisingly good things as governor--though I voted for his opponent in 1998, Glenn Poshard, it's hard to imagine Poshard having the guts to go against the screeching law-and-order types and stop the death penalty.

Too bad Ryan got to the governor's office via a thoroughly corrupt career in politics and is likely to be in jail soon.

I think Ryan was a good governor. Lousy secretary of state (that's where the license for bribes thing happened) but a good govenor. The state ran smoothly and he took at least one big stand. Was he corrupt as governor? Almost certainly (though actually the constant cloud hanging over his head likely made him act on his best behavior). But any governor's shenanigans he pulled were ultimatley things that didn't amount to much. I can accept some corruption as long as it doesn't amount to much and things run smoothly.

So it seems to me that Reinsdorf/Williams' decision for the offseason is either blow up the team, or fire Ozzie. I know what I'd do. I actually think Ozzie's an OK manager, but if I was running the ChiSox, I wouldn't consider it worth it to have to put up with his continuous PR ########.

I agree with a lot of this. Except that blow up/fire isn't an either/or option. I don't expect Reinsdorf to fire Guillen.

Guillen had the team playing as well as anyone could reasonably hope his first three years but is dreadful this year. There's precedent for this. When the '55 Giants fell out of it early, people said Leo Durocher quit on them. He was good with a team in contention, but wihtout he hurt them. Twenty years later the same scenario played out with Dick Williasm and the Angels. Part of Guillen's schtick has always been saying and doing thing to provoke people. This year it ain't working so he's just flayling about aimlessly.

but as I said last week, this is year 4. 3 of Ozzie's years have been poor

Well, that's just nuts. They had 3 winning records. They exceeded SG's 1000 sim projecions every year. Twice they exceeded it considerably - both the '05 title year and last year. Please remember they won 90 last year in a very tough division. If Minnesota doesn't have one of the greatest late-season stretch runs in baseball history over the last four months (playing over .680 ball - on pace for 111 wins over a full season) the Sox are wild card. God knows the conventional wisdom around here didn't expect the Sox to win 90 in either '05 or '06.

He's a huge huge believer in the "fast guy" batting 1st. So, Jerry Owens leads off even if he couldn't hit water falling out of a boat. Jerry Owens will lead off if he's playing and Ozzie is the manager. That will never change. He's a grinder! He's fast! He's really really shitty!

At what point does speed negate OBP problems? Owens has a poor OBP but it's not all that much worse than the team-wide average (which is of course worst in the AL). Meanwhile, he has 69 singles or walks, and 21 stolen bases. Given that he sometimes comes up with runners on, he's stealing bases at least one-third of the time. I don't think it's ideal, but I think people are getting caught up in the minatua here. Every sabermetric study I've ever seen on line-up construction indicates these things mean very little. A guy with a speed and a low OBP on a team full of guys with low OBP really isn't that horrible a lead-off man.

If the White sox can Guillen they aren't too bright. He is one of the better managers in baseball.

I agree that he's a good manager in general, but he's making a bad situation worse here. If I were Reinsdorf I'd bring him back next year, but that would be it if he keeps up this ####.

I don't know how Vince or JRE feel, but I'll take it. At the end of the day, I can go watch my DVD and think back to how fun '05 was. Flags fly forever. It's better than being a Cub fan.

Damn right. I wonder what media Sox fans will re-watch their next World Series win on. I'm assuming I won't be alive for that.

I wish I played for a manager like that. I swear to God I wish I could have played for a (expletive) manager like that.

Ozzie DID play for managers like that. For thirteen feckin' years on the South Side.

I always liked how Ozzie handled his pitchers (specifically starters), although he does play lefty/righty more than I prefer. Still, he always finds a way to trot out a really bad line up. Even in 05, there were too many Timo Perez starts.

I guess having Jim F. Thome on second running with the pitch with one out was Pierzynski's fault. AJ fouled off at least two pitches before he missed one,

It WAS AJ's fault. The pitch he struck out on was caught by Laird in the dirt, and he was still able to throw out Thome by 10 feet. With a 3-2 count, you don't have to swing at a bad pitch just because the runners are in motion.

AJ's fault ALL THE WAY.

“Well, they’re killing me,” Guillen said. “They’re killing my family. They’re killing my coaching staff, killing the White Sox fans. They kill the owner. They kill everyone. I hope they feel the same way we feel.”

Ozzie's diatribe kills me.

This season would be a lot more painful had the Sox bombed out in '05, that's for sure.

Concur. And if this disaster had happened last year, it might have soured the '05 experience for me. Well, perhaps a little bit. Eh, maybe not.

Concur. And if this disaster had happened last year, it might have soured the '05 experience for me.

I was a bit upset that the team dumped my two favorite players immediately after the '05 season. The fact that they didn't make the playoffs in '06 after doing that was hard to swallow.

But '05 was pretty damn great.

I did hear Ozzie use the phrase "wide stancers" I don't have any idea what that means.

Larry Craig reference?

I don't blame Guillen for trying some wacky baserunning to try and get something going.

I don't either, but then he shouldn't blame the players when it goes wrong. That's lousy.

It's much cheaper to replace Ozzie than to replace $100 million in players.

But I think everyone knows that won't make them play better, so there's no point unless you're sure he's holding them down. Which I very much doubt is the case.

Just because the GM does something doesn't mean the manager has to follow through.

I think you're wrong about that.

AJ's fault ALL THE WAY.

Nobody every struck out on a low pitch before, is that what you're saying? Shee, tough crowd. As Carl Yastrzemski, said, you don't always make an out; sometimes the pitcher gets you out. And Jim Thome is the very last guy on the team I'd have trying for third in that situation. No, tactics aren't the problem. But bad tactics aren't the solution.

I was a bit upset that the team dumped my two favorite players immediately after the '05 season.

Timo Perez and Carl Everett?

I mean, golly, a WS win and you found something to be upset about? Kenny Williams could've burned my house down and I'd've probably just politely asked him not to do it again. And I am no KW fan in the least.

Timo Perez and Carl Everett?

Frank Thomas and Aaron Rowand.

Rowand I got over pretty quickly, but Thomas is the best player ever to wear a White Sox uniform. I like him a lot more than I like Kenny Williams.

I was prepared to accept it reluctantly if the team made the playoffs again last year, but they didn't.

Rowand I got over pretty quickly, but Thomas is the best player ever to wear a White Sox uniform.

I believe Eddie Collins wore the uniform for a little bit. ;-)

I believe Eddie Collins wore the uniform for a little bit. ;-)

Very well - Thomas is the best hitter to ever wear a White Sox uniform.

I think the bullpen woes fall squarely on the shoulder of K Williams. If you're building a pen with castoffs from the Royals bullpen (MacDougal, Sisco, Buckvich) - you might be a bad GM. It's not like Williams didn't see his own team abuse those guys for a few years before he signed them on.

I don't necessarily disagree - if I were running the Sox, I'd think about firing both Guillen and Williams this offseason

I don't think Williams deserves at all to be fired for what has happened, he did construct a championship team and a team the next year that, in most seasons, would have been close to or won the division. However, he might deserve to be fired for what he seems to be planning to do next year, attempting to contend despite having a roster that's just crying out for a rebuild.

I'm not a Sox fan but I think I'd be a lot happier to hear "We had a good run but we need to start rebuilding and focus on contending a little further down the road" than go through another disaster of a season that accomplishes nothing.

Frank Thomas and Aaron Rowand.

Gotcha, JRE. 8-)

If you're building a pen with castoffs from the Royals bullpen (MacDougal, Sisco, Buckvich) - you might be a bad GM.

MacDougal was something of a health risk, but it's not like they gave up much for him, and he still has high upside. Ditto Andy Sisco. I understood the thinking there - they got a lot out of Matt Thornton, so it was worth trying again.

Bukvich was signed as AAA roster filler - he's only getting work because the team lacks options.

Well Al they are all up set because Ozzie Guillen said some things that the Nanny did not like and he said that Chi. fans are all Unemployed Americans who can go do things to their selfs which I do not like to reprint and it was like Lee Eelya all over a gain. Well this is Professional Baseball not Mister Rogers and some times the language gets salty. The other day German Die spilt a pail of baseballs in the club house and Jim Tumi nearly stept on 1 and he has bad ankiels Al which would of meant the end of him if he had fallen and Jim said Gosh, German, you should take better care of these durn baseballs and A.J. Pierogi said Tumi you are a ####eating ########ing all-###ing ####-ant horse's dam's ####ing ####. Now you can say what you like has Mr. Williams improved the club by trading Rowland Office and Little Gucci and Brenda McCarthy for the new guys we got like Tumi but consider this Al through thick and thin he has always stuck with me Jack Keefe though I do not get into games much but I am the Reserve Arm which all teams need and we will see who has the last laugh in Ought Eight.

Ha! I knew Ozzie was going to be a disaster as a manager who would end up ripping his players and probably get himself fired. And I was only off by...three years and one World Series win.

Let's call that half-credit.

You and the Baseball Prospectus both.

If Jack Keefe were on the White Sox today, what player would he be? My guess: Jose Contreras or Ryan Bukvich.

You and the Baseball Prospectus both.

I anxiously await for their next book, "How We Weren't Wrong About The White Sox."

I anxiously await for their next book, "How We Weren't Wrong About The White Sox."

BPro's been predicting doom and gloom for the White Sox every year since 2001. One of these years, they were bound to be right.

If Jack Keefe were on the White Sox today, what player would he be?

He would be Jack Keefe. I do not get it Al this is some kind of joke well I do not get a lot of the jokes on Primer may be it is a Trick Queston.

One of these years, they were bound to be right.

It's called the Chien-Ming Wang Theorem.

It's called the Chien-Ming Wang Theorem.

Good example, and yes, I'd say that chances are high that Wang puts together a sub-par season sooner or later. Maybe it'll be twelve years from now, but there's a good chance that it'll happen.

Why should KW be fired?
How does that McCarthy trade look right now?
He managed to get Gio Gonzalez back. He might have gottena bit more for Iguchi, but what has he done which says he thinks this team is ready to contend now? Signing Konerko might not have been that bright, but he was a fan favourite, and gives decent value. Thome is playing for quarter of his price tag. Dye is signed rather cheaply.

The only trade he should regret is trading Chris Young, and then leaving Anderson high and dry. But really, KW has built a solid pitching core, and thats the toughest thing to do. If he can luck into cpl of good FA signings and career years, the Sox will be contending real soon.

I can accept some corruption as long as it doesn't amount to much and things run smoothly.

and "*That's* the *Chicago* way!"

I can accept some corruption as long as it doesn't amount to much and things run smoothly.

Asia and the Middle East patented that a long time ago

One of these years, they were bound to be right.

It's called the Chien-Ming Wang Theorem.

Of greater historical accuracy, it is called the Glaving Postulate. Saberheads have predicted his demise for the last decade. Being wrong, year after year, has not deterred them, because they know that, sooner or later, they will be proved right.

Well more like the Tammany Hall way

Asia and the Middle East patented that a long time ago

All except for the "running smoothly" part.

And if this disaster had happened last year, it might have soured the '05 experience for me. Well, perhaps a little bit. Eh, maybe not.

The Cardinals won a World Series last year and then tried to solve their starting pitching problem this year with Todd Wellemeyer and Mike Maroth. Hearing "The World Champion Cardinals... on KTRS!" every game on the radio made those Wellemeyer and Maroth games more than tolerable. I'd put my money on "maybe not."

He might have gotten a bit more for Iguchi, but what has he done which says he thinks this team is ready to contend now?

Re-signing Dye and moving Fields to the outfield to make room for Joe Crede. Also, not immediately letting Scott Podsednik go when he was claimed on waivers and giving Mike Myers an audition with an '08 option.

Williams is clearly under the delusion that this team can contend in '08.

Hasn't Williams SAID to the media that they don't see this as a team heading for a rebuild and that they're planning on contending in '08?

Williams also said they were never in sell mode even though they were this year and also in 2002.

Re-signing Dye and moving Fields to the outfield to make room for Joe Crede. Also, not immediately letting Scott Podsednik go when he was claimed on waivers

These all smell to me like Reinsdorfian misplaced loyalty. You know how he is...to a fault, and all.

I don't know how Vince or JRE feel, but I'll take it. At the end of the day, I can go watch my DVD and think back to how fun '05 was. Flags fly forever.

Oh, no doubt. Not trying to piss on what they did in 05 - I'd love for my team to have a year like that... it's just been a little sobering. If that 05 team can look like this two years later, it speaks to the impermanence of anything in this sport.

BPro's been predicting doom and gloom for the White Sox every year since 2001. One of these years, they were bound to be right.

Gosh, I guess if you can't be 100% sure that your prediction is right, you should just close up shop & keep your mouth shut.

Gosh, I guess if you can't be 100% sure that your prediction is right, you should just close up shop & keep your mouth shut.

If you predict gloom and doom for a team that goes on to win 110 games, you're not exactly lighting the night sky with the meteor that is your genius. BP has had it in for the Sox for years; they're not rational on the topic ("they" being Joe Sheehan).

No, tactics aren't the problem. But bad tactics aren't the solution.


Sheesh, dumb crowd. Thome was essentially a non-factor in the play; if Owens was at second Laird could have just as easily lobbed the ball to second and nabbed Konerko.

What is AJ more likely to do? Hit a homer or GIDP? He has more GIDPs than HR's and he's usually a contact hitter. Bad contact most of the time, but contact just the same. His K-rate is low. If the runner's hold, they likely don't score a run if AJ gets a single; then the crappy part of the lineup is next.

It's Kameron F. Loe pitching!! The guy's got a 1:1 K/BB ratio! AJ swung at a bad low pitch, not a good low pitch. To claim "bad tactics" is laughable.

Thome was essentially a non-factor in the play...To claim "bad tactics" is laughable.

If Thome was a non-factor, I guess that must have been someone else I saw jogging into the tag at third.

Dude, running with two guys as slow as Konerko and Thome was not going to keep them out of any double play, particularly when Pierzynski being the one running home to first means the defense can take chances on the baserunners without risk. If Guillen's going to try crap like that, he should try it with runners who can actually run a little bit, rather than those whose home-run trot is also their top speed. He's flailing, tactics-wise.

If Guillen's going to try crap like that, he should try it with runners who can actually run a little bit, rather than those whose home-run trot is also their top speed.

Unfortunately, the guys who can run a little bit are never on base.

Chicago Sun-Times reports that the ChiSox are reportedly interested in pursuing David Eckstein this offseason. Oh yeah.

Chicago Sun-Times reports that the ChiSox are reportedly interested in pursuing David Eckstein this offseason. Oh yeah.

If all the rumors are to be believed, they're interested in just about every player that'll be a free agent this winter.

That said, I really don't want the White Sox to sign David Eckstein. Eckstein is an average player at best - it's putting a band-aid on a sucking chest wound.

The one thing this team does NOT need to do is to start bringing in mediocre over-30 players to patch holes. That's a sure-fire path to Pittsburgh/Baltimore territory.