I'm glad he dropped so we could see what condition his condition was in.
Prognosis: Negative.

You picked a fine time to leave me, you heel.

I don't think there is a single baseball player in history I have despised more than Kenny Rogers.

He is very difficult to like.

Unless he comes back for an extremely unlikely farewell tour with the Rangers and racks up some more numbers, he finishes as their career leader in Winning Percentage and Games Pitched (third in games started, seventh in games finished), second in wins and IP, third in strikeouts. Which still probably won't get him into the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame, unless he assaults enough cameramen to be tracked down in a violent car chase and installed in this one.

Ah, Kenny. Lord, you were terrible in NY, and apparently kind of a jerk. On the other hand, the Yankees were 5-1 in playoff games in which Kenny appeared, either for or aganist them, and he was traded for my favorite player of all-time. So not a total loss.

I figured he could LOOGY his way into being a four decade guy. So much for that prediction.

He'll always be on my #### list for that shutout he pitched against the Yankees in the 2006 ALDS. Good riddance.

and he was traded for my favorite player of all-time

Terrence Long is your favorite player of all-time? Odd choice.

Retirement announcements from any Kenny Rogerses are welcome here. In this case, being a cheater without being coy or charming in any way just makes you a cheating jerk, especially when you're a jerk to start with. Yes, Kenny, I think you're weak for not turning the other cheek, now go.

In this case, being a cheater without being coy or charming in any way just makes you a cheating jerk, especially when you're a jerk to start with.

So's your mom.

He'll always be on my #### list for that shutout he pitched against the Yankees in the 2006 ALDS. Good riddance.

You can hate him for doing great against your team all you want, but it's better in my opinion to hate him for sucking FOR your team.


Walked.

In.

Winning.

Series.

Run.


And was a complete jerk anyhow. It can get no worse.

You can hate him for doing great against your team all you want, but it's better in my opinion to hate him for sucking FOR your team.

he did that too! go back to your ####### strawberry patch

Terrence Long is your favorite player of all-time? Odd choice.

Nah, my favorite was also an A and a Yankee, but it sure as hell isn't Terrence Long

Garvey is long gone. Schilling is on his way. And now the gambler. Alas, I'll have to pour all of my hate into the Jeter glass. And, of course, there are always Cub fans.

Is hate really necessary? I don't get that.

Looks like he knows when to fold them. Clearly he already knew how to walk in the winning run.

And so we lose another pitcher that was better than Jack Morris.

Damn, now I'm going to have to go to a Pete Rose appearance to hear someone holler "Gambler!"

And was a complete jerk anyhow. It can get no worse.

Yes it can.

But why quibble? Let's just give out multiple Selig Awards.

Rogers wins his in the Worst Single Moment by a Jerk Wearing Your Team's Uni category.

My guy, though, wins for the Worst Sustained Performance by a Jerk Wearing Your Team's Uni.

Rogers > Morris? Look, some of your enemies among the ink-stained Racoon club may overrate Morris, but you're overcompensating. 500 more IP in two less years for Morris. And the slight 3 point advantage that Rogers may have with Relative ERA should also be countered by the fact that he was more of a reliever than Morris. Jack had only 22 relief appearances in his career.

Is hate really necessary?

In general, yes.

Prognosis: Negative.

Oh, God!! WHY?? WHY???? WHY????????????????

Wait... negative is good?

Sam, I'm sorry, but Mota is not worse. Not in career length of evil, not in peak for evil.

Not in career length of evil, not in peak for evil.

He's worse as a Met. And more evil in relation to the Mets. Not only did he ruin a post-season (just as Rogers did -- 2006 v. 1999), he ruined a subsequent season (2007), and he was a slimeball in relation to one of the greatest all-time Mets' heroes, Mike Piazza.

Loathe Rogers all you want. Nothing in baseball shall ever equal my disdain for Mota.

Kenny Rogers is one of my favorite players. Seriously, what is not to love?

Good pitcher? Check.
Sucked for the Yankees? Check.
Sucked for the Mets? Check.
Walked the Braves into the World Series? Check.
Pitched great in the playoffs against the Yankees? Check.
Pissed off Yankee fans with that stuff on his hand? Check.
Hilarious altercation with cameraman? Check.

I hope he pitches forever.

Rogers > Morris? Look, some of your enemies among the ink-stained Racoon club may overrate Morris, but you're overcompensating. 500 more IP in two less years for Morris. And the slight 3 point advantage that Rogers may have with Relative ERA should also be countered by the fact that he was more of a reliever than Morris. Jack had only 22 relief appearances in his career.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out what Kiko Sakata said in this thread:

Jack Morris was arguably the best starting pitcher in MLB over the time period from about 1978 - 1992. He led all of MLB over this time period in innings pitched and wins, but also in support-neutral wins. In contrast, Mike Mussina is about the 8th or 9th best starting pitcher of his era. The odds that there are 9 starting pitchers active today that are better than any starting pitcher in the game 20 years ago seems unlikely to me. I think it's more likely that Jack Morris's "greatness" is simply being clouded by the more difficult context in which he worked.


If Moose is the 8th best starter of this era, where does that leave Rogers?

He'll always be on my #### list for that shutout he pitched against the Yankees in the 2006 ALDS. Good riddance.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

I betcha in Moose's best ten- or fifteen-year stretch, he's better than eighth-best. Not sure where Kiko got those SNWL stats, but I'd like to see 'em, I bet they're a cherry-pick.

Which still probably won't get him into the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame

That is one weird museum. There's a bar just across the highway with an extremely impressive beer list, so that's a pretty good combination for a rainy Saturday afternoon for me.

Texas Ranger Hall of Fame

That is one weird museum. There's a bar just across the highway with an extremely impressive beer list, so that's a pretty good combination for a rainy Saturday afternoon for me.

Sounds like paradise. 15 minutes to go through the entire museum, leaving the rest of the day to drink your way through the beer list.

And so we lose another pitcher that was better than Jack Morris.

Maybe we do, but his name sure as #### ain't Kenny Rogers.

And so we lose another pitcher that was better than Jack Morris.

Maybe we do, but his name sure as #### ain't Kenny Rogers.

I'm still waiting for Justin to sell me on this.

Not in career length of evil, not in peak for evil.

He's worse as a Met. And more evil in relation to the Mets. Not only did he ruin a post-season (just as Rogers did -- 2006 v. 1999), he ruined a subsequent season (2007), and he was a slimeball in relation to one of the greatest all-time Mets' heroes, Mike Piazza.

Loathe Rogers all you want. Nothing in baseball shall ever equal my disdain for Mota.

On peak evil Lassus has to be the winner. The only way to beat Rogers's peak would be to lose the World Series on a walkoff grand slam after throwing your eephus pitch. While grinning.

That walk was the worst moment of my life, sporting events division.

Hey - I was away all weekend, just got back this morning. Hope your weekend was as fun as mine. GGC emailed me for my argument on this, which I responded to him at length so I figure I'd post it here.

Yeah, I'm exaggerating. Actually, if you compare Rogers at his best to Morris at his best, I'm not so sure Rogers doesn't come out ahead. Career-wise, though, you have two guys pitching at a similar level of effectiveness, except Morris is pitching a lot more innings; Morris has 600 more career innings pitched than Rogers, about three seasons' worth. Morris had the better career; not a lot better, but better, on the quantity. The quality is about the same.

Still, Rogers' career ERA+ is 108 to Morris' 105 (though you correctly point out Rogers was a reliever for about 350 of his 3200 innings and posted a good ERA as a reliever), and his peak is similar too, if you look at their top 5 seasons by ERA+:

Morris: 133, 127, 126, 124, 124
Rogers: 144, 143, 134, 119, 110

So Rogers was more effective at his best, but Morris had two more high-quality (ERA+ 120 or more) seasons than Rogers and was pitching more innings per season (though the changes in baseball forcing starters to pitch less aren't Rogers' fault; however, Morris was top 5 in his league in innings pitched 7 times, Rogers only twice).

Morris pitched for strong teams, but so did Rogers; Rogers' winning percentage is a little higher than Morris', not really a significant difference. But even in W-L, Morris is more about quantity than quality.

If I want to say, "Kenny Rogers at his best was a better pitcher than Jack Morris at his best," I would probably be right, and I think when we talk about "Was X better than Y", peak performance is a big part of what we mean.

If I were to say, "Kenny Rogers' career was better/more valuable than Jack Morris's", I would probably be wrong; 600 extra innings pitched is a lot, and they were about the same quality per-inning.

Oh, and before I forget, Rogers was mediocre in the postseason and his memorable moments, to say the least, are not moments he's proud of. That counts. Morris' postseason record is pretty mediocre, too, but of course he has Game 7 immortalized.

But the fact that we can even compare Kenny Rogers to Jack Morris and find a good deal of similarity illustrates how absurd Jack Morris' probable election to the Hall of Fame is. I think Frank Tanana *was* a better pitcher than Jack Morris, for instance, no matter how you want to slice it. Better peak, similar career. We just overlook it because most of Tanana's peak happened his first 5 years in the league, and then he spent 15 years as a rag-arm LAIM guy.

As for Kiko's argument... I find it unconvincing. When you talk about "who was the best pitcher in X period," you have to skew pretty extremely toward career-value only (versus peak value) to come up with Jack Morris for any period, and even then you have to carefully select your years (the precise years of Morris' career). That's an unreasonable stretch. Morris kind of straddled eras, but he was at least somewhat of a contemporary of, I don't know, 20 better pitchers. Even going 1978-1994, I'd be inclined to take Roger Clemens' 10 years over Jack Morris' 17. Or Bret Saberhagen's, or David Cone's, or Dave Stieb's career, or Rick Reuschel, probably Dwight Gooden... the list goes on.

And even from 1978-1994 specifically, Morris is behind Dennis Martinez, who I don't think anybody ever suggested should be in the Hall of Fame. He's only ahead of Bob Welch by virtue of more innings; Welch pitched exactly the same years Morris did.

Well... that's what I think. Morris is closer to Kenny Rogers than he is to Dave Stieb, and they're going to put Jack Morris in the Hall of Fame. I don't find being above-average and exceptionally durable to be the kind of thing that makes children stare in awe at a bronze plaque bearing your image.

I don't find being above-average and exceptionally durable to be the kind of thing that makes children stare in awe at a bronze plaque bearing your image.

Then obviously you've never taken kids to The Robert C. Byrd Center in West Virginia.