Hmmmmmmm.....no.

ok, who has an inflated feeling of self worth?

outside of that he is pretty accurate about the worthlessness of the veterans committe.

Now there's a guy who isn't on the bubble.

Lolich should definitely be in the exhibit on "Best batting eye among pitchers". And for his impressive acting job in The Incredible Melting Man.

9 years of being reasonably effective with 2 good years thrown in there and an era+ of 105........nope. Not good enough, please join the queue behind Mssrs. Blyleven, John, Kaat, Tiant and Blue.

If Candy Cummings can get in for pioneering the curveball, Mickey Lolich can get in for pioneering the idea "All you can eat."

Hugh Jorgan Posted: November 07, 2007 at 11:37 PM (#2608920)

9 years of being reasonably effective with 2 good years thrown in there and an era+ of 105........nope. Not good enough, please join the queue behind Mssrs. Blyleven, John, Kaat, Tiant and Blue.

not to mention guys like Gooden, Stieb, Morris, Hershiser, Viola, Saberhagen, Milt Pappas...and 3 dozen other guys.

I know I could never ever ever ever understand the concept where being still alive I'm campaigning for myself to get into the BASEBALL HALL OF FAME; but I hope in the alternate universe where I'm ending up on the bubble for my good-field-no-hit career as a 2B I don't do this.

“If anyone deserves to be in the Hall it’s (Oliva),” Lolich said. “All he did was win three (American League) batting championships. If that’s not Hall material, I don’t know what is.”

As far as I can tell the only players to have led their league in batting average three times and not be in the Hall of Fame are Oliva and...guess the other two, dudes!

Both seem like they would be about as qualified to be in the Hall of Fame as Oliva is. That is, almost qualified.

#8 -

Without looking...

Bill Madlock?

drawing a blank...

I looked...

Pete Rose! Wow.

I didn't know he led the league. But, I got Madlock....

And, of course, I forgot that Pete Rose is not technically a Hall of Famer when I ws looking at the lists.

I was thinking Bill Madlock and Larry Walker.

Pete Runnels is only like 5 hits away from being a deserving HOFer!

You know you're in a slow news cycle when you start seeing the "Why Guy Who I Liked to Watch Play for Hoemtown Team 40 Years Ago Should Be in the Hall" articles. Good thing too, because God knows that every damn player that's remembered from the 60s has to be in the Hall.

If there's a Ken Keltner list, I think there should also be a Jerry Reuss line. If your career doesn't crush Jerry Reuss's, you're not a Hall of Famer.

It would be appropiate for Mickey Lolich to go in the same year as David Wells, his modern day counterpart. Then we can go and recite the fat jokes George Brunet yelled at Lolich in "Ball Four".
Bill James had a line the reason why Don Drysdale is in the Hall because he had Sandy Koufax as a teammate and Lolich isn't because he had had Denny McLain. Perhaps Lolich could also get Tim McCarver's endorsement since he likes to say how before the 1968 World series Roger Maris warned his Cardinal teammates that Lolich was the Tigers best pitcher.
I take a more favorable view of Lolich's qualifications because his 1968 heroics did get one of my favorite non-Yankees Al Kaline a ring. I plead guilty to wanting the players of my youth in but I also felt many of the Frankie Frisch Veterans committee choices of Hafey, Kelly, Bottomley etc were a rebuke to my era. If you young'uns want to put your own guys in later on, I understand.

You guys must all be small hall advocates. Good.

Looking at his similarity scores, through age 31 he's got HoF potential (Carlton, Sutton are top comps). And possibly even through age 34 (Blylevyn). Plus, he pitched in a hitter's park for most of his career. But that's as far as it goes. Perhaps all that wear and tear (eg, 376 innings in 1971 at an ERA+ of 125, unfortunately overshadowed by Vida Blue's heroics that year) killed his chances.

However, he was the star pitcher of the hometown team when I was at those critical ages of baseball fandom of 11 and 12. So I'll gladly entertain the thought of him being a HoFer, just to remember the Golden Age of baseball on a gray November day.

Bill James had a line the reason why Don Drysdale is in the Hall because he had Sandy Koufax as a teammate and Lolich isn't because he had had Denny McLain.

If McLain had behaved himself and had the career he was supposed to have (his top comps while he was in his 20s were people like Dennis Eckersley, Dwight Gooden and Dizzy Dean), the Tigers would've won more games (perhaps even a dynasty) and Lolich would've won more, too. If Denny and Mickey were both on the good side of 250 wins with a three or four rings, they'd be excellent candidates.

But the same demons that made McLain a great pitcher (temporarily) also destroyed him; you can't pick and choose a man's traits like you're at a cafeteria. If Denny McLain had been born a "good" man, he might've never seen a big-league ballpark in his life without a ticket...

you can't pick and choose a man's traits like you're at a cafeteria.

Sure you can. I consider tater tots and jello with unidentified fruit to be two of my most important traits.

"If McLain had behaved himself and had the career he was supposed to have (his top comps while he was in his 20s were people like Dennis Eckersley, Dwight Gooden and Dizzy Dean)..."

All of whom were well known for behaving themselves.

Also: For all the fat jokes, Lolich is still 18th all-time in Ks. That's not a bad career.

If that’s not Hall material, I don’t know what is.”

I pick Column B.

All of whom were well known for behaving themselves.

I never heard that Dizzy Dean was a lush or anything.

Lolich isn't a hall of famer, but (warning: cross post from blog alert!) I'll always have a place in my heart for Lolich. Partially because my parents knew who he was. They weren't baseball fans, but they were from Detroit and even casual fans knew about the 1968 World Series hero. Just hearing them talk about any ballplayer made whoever it was loom larger in my mind than his production probably warranted.

Also, as some may know, Lolich ran a donut shop in Lake Orion, Michigan for many years after he retired. One Saturday in 1984 my Dad drove my brother and me there in order to meet him. When we got there, the woman behind the counter said that Lolich was out. As soon as she said it, our faces fell. Seeing this, she quickly added "actually, he just stepped out to run an errand, and I'm sure he'll back any moment." She went into the back for a minute as we got donuts, and then came back out.

About 20 minutes later Mickey Lolich walked in with a big smile on his face, came right over to where my brother and I were, and said "you must be the guys lookin' for me!" He was great. He signed our cards and shot the breeze with us for a long, long time, stopping only occasionally to acknowledge a new customer entering the place. He said he was more proud of his 1968 World Series home run than he was of his three wins because "I won a bunch of games. I only hit the one home run."

He also had a lot of mildly negative things to say about Rusty Staub, the guy he was traded for after the 1975 season. The one I remember was that, according to Lolich, Staub would use new batting gloves for almost every at bat, and because of that people thought he was a prima donna. I don't know if that's true or even uncommon, but Lolich seemed animated about it even though he had been retired for five years at that point. Given that, aside for 38 games at the end of the 1979 season, Staub and Lolich were never even in the same league together, I can only guess that the whole batting glove business was something he first heard from his teammates on the Mets.

That stuff aside, he seemed like a really nice guy. He said that Kaline was a really nice guy, and that you couldn't say that about most of the superstars back then. He said that everyone gave Oyler good-natured crap for being unable to hit his weight. Jim Northrup had the best sense of humor on the team. The younger players were kind of in awe of Eddie Matthews, but it was obvious he was washed up when he came over, which made everyone kind of sad. Everyone loved Gates Brown. You get the sense that he could have gone on for hours, but eventually my Dad, realizing that we were monopolizing Lolich's time, said it was time to go.

In hindsight it was obvious that he was at home relaxing that Saturday morning and only came in to the shop because a couple of kids showed up asking for him. He didn't have to do that, nor did he have to spend as much time with us as he did. Because he did, however, I will always have a good thoughts about Mickey Lolich.

Even if I don't think he's a Hall of Famer.

Sorry for the autobiographical moment, but it's the offseason.

I always get them confused; which of Denny McLain and Mickey Lolich went to prison, and which opened the donut shop?

Never mind; thanks Craig. (that's wierd to say, by the way)

It's about time the good people of Holland had their newspaper linked here.

But it's time for Flying Dutchmen basketball! The biggest draw in D-III!

That's a nice story. I'm glad I read it.

To the larger point, while Lolich is wrong about his own career he is right about his general point. You guys are small hall fascists.

Cool story, Craig.

"I never heard that Dizzy Dean was a lush or anything."

He wasn't a notorious drunk like Johnny Mize or anything like that, but the joke worked better if I didn't try to parse things too closely. Judging by Diz's loose relationship with the literal truth while broadcasting, I doubt he'd mind much.

It's still funny to see a similarity to Dean offered as evidence that McLain could've had a long and successful career if he'd behaved himself, when Dean was basically done at 28.

Craig, that was a great story. It'd be a high point in my life, that's for sure, to get so much out of someone like that.

Craig, great story, thanks for posting.

I noticed Lolich was at a Menards opening. Lee Smith is going to be at the new Menards in my town soon, I think I'll head over.

It's still funny to see a similarity to Dean offered as evidence that McLain could've had a long and successful career if he'd behaved himself, when Dean was basically done at 28.

This is true, though it should be noted that while all of McLain's troubles were self-inflicted, Dean's collapse came solely as a result of a broken toe he got from a line drive in the 1937 All-Star game. He tried to come back too soon after that, adjusted his motion, ruined his arm, and that was that.

I remember reading somewhere (realizing that the source could have been sensationalizing, but...), quoting a former Tiger teamate who said that McLain drank a case of Pepsi's every day! That would be 24, I beleive? If he consistently, on a day-to-day basis, consumed that much sugar and caffeine, then no wonder his behavior went crazy, not to mention his weight. It would also strongly hint towards an addictive personality, methinks.

It was around 1969-70 and I was down the Left Field line at Yankee Stadium during batting practice. A ball was hit down the line which was bouncing/rolling right to me. At the last second one of the Tigers players ran a few steps to his right and snatched the ball just before it got to me. I was stunned and thought he'd give it to me but instead the player threw it back in to the infield. I had never heard adults use that kind of language in public as people started calling the player all sorts of things, primarily a fat bastard. He just laughed and walked away. Yep, it was Lolich. I guess he was nicer to kids when there were donuts invoved.

...There are several players in the Hall with less credentials than not only Lolich, but former Minnesota Twins All-Star outfielder, Tony Oliva.

Absolutely true, but the following statements are also true:

1: There are several players NOT in the Hall with more impressive credentials than Lolich and Oliva;

2: Every pitcher in the HOF with less impressive credentials than Lolich is arguably a mistake.

3: As a Met fan I have no sympathy/empathy or fondness for fatso and he can whine away all he wants as far as I care

Ah Mickey Lolich, I have him ranked just behind some all time greats such as: George Uhle, Mel Harder, and Frank Viola.

George Uhle would be in my HOF exhibit on good hitting pitchers, with Lolich in the aforementioned subcategory of pitchers with good batting eyes.

Ah Mickey Lolich, I have him ranked just behind some all time greats such as: George Wendt, Mel's Diner, and Frank Caliendo!

For those advocates of DIPS the difference between Lolich and a genuine hall of famer is BABIP.