This post is crying out for Admiral Ackbar. And quite possibly Mike Piazza.

I know it's part of the culture and they're just chickens and blah blah blah. I'm just embarassed to be a human sometimes. OK, most of the time. One of the reasons I'm not religious, I think, is because we're not worthy of something that grand. Or not. These are just thoughts that pop into my head when I'm feeling blue.

Anyway, when is that Sox-A's game? Anybody have a recommendation for where to see the game in Manhattan? I really don't want to end up at ESPN Zone. Surely, some of those crazy pubs that open early for English soccer will be ready for a 5 am baseball game?

This should be interesting based on the Vick threads.

So a 30 second ####-fight is inhumane & barbaric, but a chicken living months in a factory farm sitting in its own caca with no room to move is not.

So a 30 second ####-fight is inhumane & barbaric, but a chicken living months in a factory farm sitting in its own caca with no room to move is not.

Depends on who you ask. I say both, but what can you do? If I start thinking about everything wrong with the world, I feel like I'll go insane. Like I said, I'm feeling blue today.

PEDRO: I'm mad at you, Dad.

OMAR: [imitating Pedro's dad] Hey, dummy, I'm mad at you too! Why ya gotta act up that way?!

PEDRO: Cos you left me, Dad!

OMAR: I was young and confused and your moms didn't want me around no more. Now pass me them damn collared greens!

PEDRO: Is this true, Mom? [Motions for Omar to move to another chair]

OMAR: [imitating Pedro's mom] He gambled away my welfare check. [imitating Pedro's dad] Woman, I got a mind to slap you upside the head!

PEDRO: Be me now!

OMAR: [imitating Pedro] I only act out because I want your loovvveee! DY-NO-MITE!

THERAPIST: Okay, now we're just doing Good Times.

Shooty, I bet Kettle of Fish or The Riviera might do it...they're both huge Red Sox bars...failing that, I'd try Nevada Smith's...they're open that early for soccer half the time anyway...

Also, that was pretty gross. It looked a lot less vicious than dogfighting until the one chicken killed the other one and everyjust stood around and let it walk about on its opponents corpse for a minute and a half.

The slow-motion instant replay was a little creepy too, in my opinion. Not an application of that technology that I'd thought of.

It was funny when the Marichal cockster took out that tiny bat.

Thanks Bourbon. I'll look 'em up. Nevada Smith's I know, but I'm hoping for something closer to work. I always wanted to go there for a soccer match, though. People always seem to be having a good time there when I walk by.

Nevada Smith's I know, but I'm hoping for something closer to work. I always wanted to go there for a soccer match, though. People always seem to be having a good time there when I walk by.

Phil C. and I went there to watch West Ham get promoted in Spring '05, it's a helluva good time if you're looking for a "soccer bar"

I don't get it. Do people think of the public relations consequences of things they do? It's not as if Pedro is right off the boat or something. He's been here a long time, he (should) knows how North Americans feel about animal fighting for sport. Sure, the same people who get upset about cockfighting eat at KFC, but that's another issue. Weird.

"Do people think of the public relations consequences of things they do? It's not as if Pedro is right off the boat or something. He's been here a long time, he (should) knows how North Americans feel about animal fighting for sport."

Why should he care what Americans think of him? Hes got a long-term contract, his job is in no jeopardy, it doesn't affect him on the field...


As for the actual cockfighting charge itself, I can't really get to worked up about it. I do find it hilarious that the bleeding hearts who cry out about it, despite it being a part of that culture, will also say you aren't being understanding (or "sensitive") of culture when you criticize other questionable things about a culture. There seems to be a lot of picking and choosing going on. But maybe that is just me.

Cockfighting isn't a nice thing at all, but i don't see how it is an especially evil thing. Far worse things happen everyday... and chickens are stupid as #### to boot.

How do North Americans feel about animal fighting for sport? I must have missed the memo that said that the Dominican Republic wasn't in North America.

Who cares? It's quite obviously a legal, even respectable thing in Dominican society, since this was on TV with sponsorship and the lot. Focus your attention on other things, like battery farming or something.

My dinner fighting my lunch is not something I care about. Sorry.

-1 pretend HoF vote

Cockfighting isn't a nice thing at all, but i don't see how it is an especially evil thing. Far worse things happen everyday... and chickens are stupid as #### to boot.

I wish we could come up with the single most evil thing that is happening in the world right now so I can focus all my bleeding heart energy on just that one thing and just not give a f#ck about anything else. Or have we already decided on Barry Bonds?

reminds me of a scene in 'white hunter black heart'. this was a thinly disguised 'fictional' account of john huston's shenanigans on location in africa during the making of 'the african queen'. the writer, peter viertel, is all over huston about wanting to shoot an elephant, wants him to pull himself together and get back to making the movie, and notes that killing an animal like that is 'a crime', to which huston replies it isn't a crime, it's a sin, and he's damned if he knows why he wants to do it so bad.

Nobody has said it? Marichal and Pedro should have their cocks taken away.

Some societies/cultures engage in cockfighting, which some other societies/cultures find wrong and barbaric.

Some societies/cultures execute retarded citizens, which some other societies/cultures find wrong and barbaric.

Some societies/cultures imprison and torture people without charging them with a crime or allowing them counsel, which some other societies/cultures find wrong and barbaric.

I guess it depends on the prevailing community standards.

My dinner fighting my lunch is not something I care about. Sorry.

Is it the worst thing that anyone has done in the history of the world? No.

It is a very bad thing though.

As for the actual cockfighting charge itself, I can't really get to worked up about it. I do find it hilarious that the bleeding hearts who cry out about it, despite it being a part of that culture, will also say you aren't being understanding (or "sensitive") of culture when you criticize other questionable things about a culture.

Good point. That said, there are some things that are so bad that they are wrong in any culture. No culture is perfect and this is something that is wrong in Latin culture IMO.

Pedro, you're better than that buddy.

So a 30 second ####-fight is inhumane & barbaric, but a chicken living months in a factory farm sitting in its own caca with no room to move is not.

Nope. Factory farming is worse.

Boston Legal has made it difficult for me to consider Cockfighting barbaric anymore. Whether the 'evidence' they produced is true or not, it does make me look at it differently.

I'll state that I'm not a vegan, vegetarian or anything else like that, and I jokingly refer to the five necessary food groups as "moo, oink, cluck, corn and potatoes" so nothing is ever going to make me stop eating chicken or meat. But Boston Legal did present a pretty compelling argument about the different treatment that a particular cockfighter treated his rooster vs how KFC and others treated their chickens, that makes me feel hypocritical if I consider cockfighting to be barbaric.

Barry Bonds must certainly be the most evil thing in the world. Why else wouldn't the M's sign him to take Jose Vidro's "job"?

And I can't speak for all 'bleeding hearts', but this one can tell the difference between having animals kill each other for a good time and a few bucks (whether they're stupid as **** or not) and staying out other aspects of most native cultures. No one is advocating invading the Dominican Republic to put a stop to chickens fighting each other. Some of us just think it's pretty f***** up. And I'm not judging Pedro Martinez on it. He certainly seems like a nice enough fellow and I love to watch him pitch. Especially since he's not on the Sox anymore killing the M's.

Anybody who has taken more then a passing interest in the food industry knows that there are far worse things being down to millions and millions of animals each day then what Pedro or Vick can ever do.

there are far worse things being down to millions and millions of animals each day then what Pedro or Vick can ever do.

And none of them excuse Martinez or Vick.

Except Pedro has nothing to be excused for, and if Vick had done it in another country he too would have nothing to be excused about.

And none of them excuse Martinez or Vick.

It just seems wrong to be a meat eater and to criticize their actions. Cockfighting Cocks live a lot longer than Chickens raised to be food, are much, much better fed and treated while alive and generally have some semblance of a an animals life. I mean I probably kill 50+ chickens a year for my meals, yet most of these cockfighters are raising a couple and keep them for several years.

Personally I feel that dogs are higher on the food chain and dog fighting is worse than cockfighting since it's dealing with an animal much closer to man, plus one that isn't a staple of my food group.

"Why else wouldn't the M's sign him to take Jose Vidro's "job"?"

You know Vidro was actually a good player this year for the Ms right?

And he has been an above-league average hitter for all but, i think, one out of the last 5 or 7 years.

You know Vidro was actually a good player this year for the Ms right?

But we are talking of Barry as a replacement here. And if the M's are going for it now ( as suggested by the Bedard deal ), Vidro cannot be a player for whom you sacrifice improving your team.
And fwiw, Vidro's last year was driven by BA, and he showed no power. Given how bad a runner he is these days, it is not unreasonable to expect that BA to come crashing down.

Except Pedro has nothing to be excused for, and if Vick had done it in another country he too would have nothing to be excused about.

I'm not sure how this happening in another country has to do with anything. We're not talking about prosecuting Pedro. People are expressing their disgust about these kinds of things.

Cockfighting is legal in the Dominican, invading sovereign nations at your leader's whim is o.k. in the U.S....hmmm weird.

Lets keep things in perspective.

Where the hell did Vidro come from?

I wish we could come up with the single most evil thing that is happening in the world right now

Where's Smitty when we need him?

It just seems wrong to be a meat eater and to criticize their actions.

I think killing animals for food and having them fight to the death for entertainment are completely different things.

I'm not sure how this happening in another country has to do with anything. We're not talking about prosecuting Pedro. People are expressing their disgust about these kinds of things

I think it has a lot to with it. Pedro was involved in a cackfight in a society that it was acceptable to do it in. He doesn't need to be excused by you or by anyone.

You know Vidro was actually a good player this year for the Ms right?

That's true if you consider a singles hitter with no power playing DH "good". The Red Sox just signed Sean Casey for like $700K. They have almost identical skill sets at this point (though Casey can at least play defense) and had pretty close statistical seasons last year. The difference is the M's are paying Vidro $6M for '08.

I wish we could come up with the single most evil thing that is happening in the world right now

The twins taking 4 supposedly magic beans for the best pitcher on the planet. As a BoSox fan, this still disturbs me...though well done to the Mets.

"And fwiw, Vidro's last year was driven by BA, and he showed no power. Given how bad a runner he is these days, it is not unreasonable to expect that BA to come crashing down."

Vidro has always been pudgy and a slow-to-average runner, and he has always put up strong batting averages with doubles power. Yeah, he is old and injury prone and could collapse but that is why is a DH.. and the same could be said of Barry as well (though, yes, Barry is obviously a better hitter.
Considering that you will already have to pay Vidro his salary if you sign Bonds, and Bonds wants a good bit of cash, you will be spending a 6 mil to put one guy on the bench and then more than that to bring in someone to replace him.
I'm not sure if the combination of the price and the headaches of Bonds are worth the upgrade. I'd rather look at improving other areas of my team. But thats just me


"The Red Sox just signed Sean Casey for like $700K. They have almost identical skill sets at this point (though Casey can at least play defense) and had pretty close statistical seasons last year."

Vidro had a 13 point advantage in OPS+ last year, and an 11 point one in 06.

"33. McCoy Posted: February 06, 2008 at 05:12 PM (#2685133)
Where the hell did Vidro come from?"

Someone mentioned Bonds to the Ms. Sorry to talk about baseball here...

I'll be happy to judge them: What a couple of pathetic sh!ts.

It just seems wrong to be a meat eater and to criticize their actions.

I think killing animals for food is different and having them fight to the death for entertainment are completely different things.

Yup. Why this is hard for some to understand is beyond me, but it's also beyond me why the idea that we shouldn't trouble to condemn something because it's not the actual worst thing in the world appeals to some folks.

"That's true if you consider a singles hitter with no power playing DH "good". "

See, I always get a kick out of this. If a guy puts up a .381 OBP with lots of walks he is an "on-base machine". If he does it with a high batting average, hes mocked.
And, with Vidro at least, it can not be a matter of the batting average being "lucky" considering his BA last year was pretty in line with his career.

I consider a "good" hitter to be one who is "good" at the plate... regardless of how he forms his performance.
To me the quality of a player's offense is a lot more important than the shape of it.

I don't really care about having Bonds on the M's. They're not going to be real good this year or next. You're right, there are certainly other areas that need much more attention. My main b*tch is with Vidro. I think they could do better for cheaper, that's all.

I think killing animals for food and having them fight to the death for entertainment are completely different things.

I agree, but I find it weird to criticize one action when the other action(treatment of animals used for meat processing) is Way more barbaric than anything that a person raising an cockfighter does. I'm not going to stop eating meat, have zero intention of that ever happening, heck if my mouth gets wired shut I'll find a way to get puree bar-b-que pork, so I know I'm culpable in the extremely barbaric manner in which livestock is kept in conditions I wouldn't wish on any creature in existence, all for my pleasure(and of course Tysons profits).

I don't approve of Cockfighting, support keeping it illegal, would support any attempt to make it illegal worldwide and would never participate in it, but when looking big picture it's not even a blip on the radar in the cruelty treatment that chickens receive.

I think killing animals for food is different and having them fight to the death for entertainment are completely different things.

A lot of chicken is consumed by people who are overweight and therefore do not need the food as a means of survival. They eat to increase the quality of their life... some might call that entertainment.

I eat to have fun and I think most people do as well.

This isn't some Matrix like world we live in where all we do is eat protein paste. Animals die that don't have to die simply for our eating enjoyment. Animals live harsh, cruel, short, or sometimes long lives so that we can enjoy a certain unnecessary piece of food. And I am not just talking about foie gras.

so I know I'm culpable in the extremely barbaric manner in which livestock is kept in conditions I wouldn't wish on any creature in existence, all for my pleasure(and of course Tysons profits).

If it isn't the killing of animals that bothers you but the treatment of them itself, try to find a "Halal" butcher. It'll be a tad more expensive and obviously won't be able to provide you with pork products.

If it isn't the killing of animals that bothers you but the treatment of them itself, try to find a "Halal" butcher. It'll be a tad more expensive and obviously won't be able to provide you with pork products.

But I absolutely love KFC. :) (I'm positive that is grounds for an attack on this board, I'm sure the culinary experts are going to come out of the woodwork to talk about how horrible tasting KFC is, but for my taste buds, outside of my Catalina chicken, KFC is the best tasting chicken---well it used to be until they got rid of trans fat, now it only tastes better than most)

A lot of chicken is consumed by people who are overweight and therefore do not need the food as a means of survival. They eat to increase the quality of their life... some might call that entertainment.

Or even non-overweight people could eat different foods or free range as opposed to factory farmed.

I think factory farming is repulsive and it's not stopping me from eating meat. But there is a moral distinction in doing something in which suffering is a byproduct and doing something in which suffering is the intention.

Animal fighting (and hunting in most circumstances) is about the suffering and killing of an animal for sport. There's no way to remove the suffering from the activity because the suffering IS the activity.

The only way the two are equivalent is if intent is meaningless. I don't accept that kind of worldview.

free range-tee hee.

But I absolutely love KFC.

Really??

The best friend chicken around here is Ezell's. Mmmm...

DOWN GOES FOGHORN! DOWN GOES FOGHORN!

Does anybody know whose #### won the fight? That was like watching the ball under the three hats video thing at a game. I couldn't track which #### was which.

I think factory farming is repulsive and it's not stopping me from eating meat. But there is a moral distinction in doing something in which suffering is a byproduct and doing something in which suffering is the intention.

Animal fighting (and hunting in most circumstances) is about the suffering and killing of an animal for sport. There's no way to remove the suffering from the activity because the suffering IS the activity.

I understand, but honestly, and I go back and forth on this, I tend to think dead is dead. The distinctions that we make to alleviate culturally-induced guilt are arbitrary.

I agree that KFC is delicious. I miss it most of all while on Weight Watchers because the stuff is absolute poison, but it is tasty.

For those men struggling with weight, I highly recommend Weight Watchers. It's crappy for women because they get a lot fewer points, but I have lost over 20 pounds in the last 10 weeks and I have not once gone to bed hungry. I have no stock in the company, by the way.

I agree that KFC is delicious. I miss it most of all while on Weight Watchers because the stuff is absolute poison, but it is tasty.

For those men struggling with weight, I highly recommend Weight Watchers. It's crappy for women because they get a lot fewer points, but I have lost over 20 pounds in the last 10 weeks and I have not once gone to bed hungry. I have no stock in the company, by the way.

We used to always get Browns chicken.

Then along came boston market and everybody had to get roasted freakin chicken. The only think I liked out of them was the cornbread. New York State had a rip off version of boston market called Woodstock Chicken or something like that who had great cornbread.

I couldn't track which #### was which.

Haha.

Little secret on KFC, if you want to get the secret blend of spices for your own cooking find Alamo Zestful seasoning. That is the actual secret spice blend, or at least that was what I was told by the spice guys.

We had Boston Market in Seattle for a few years and then they all disappeared.

Oh man, I love cornbread. There's a K.C. BBQ place near me that has the. best. cornbread.

We got a bunch for my wedding actually. My wife's cousin came back from England for it and brought her boyfriend with her. Would you believe he'd never had cornbread? He kinda picked at and couldn't figure out 'why?'.

But I absolutely love KFC. :) (I'm positive that is grounds for an attack on this board, I'm sure the culinary experts are going to come out of the woodwork to talk about how horrible tasting KFC is, but for my taste buds, outside of my Catalina chicken, KFC is the best tasting chicken---well it used to be until they got rid of trans fat, now it only tastes better than most)

I was actually eating KFC when I first saw this thread. It did not affect my enjoyment of the tasty, tasty chicken.

Cornbread is some of the greatest stuff on earth. Fresh hot cornbread with butter and honey , hmm m m m mmmm, better then warm biscuits.

Sadly, Pedro was about to throw in the towel before Grady Little advised him to let the rooster continue.

I understand, but honestly, and I go back and forth on this, I tend to think dead is dead. The distinctions that we make to alleviate culturally-induced guilt are arbitrary.

I think you may be missing the point, in part.

The problem is only partly with what happens to the animals. Causing unnecessary pain to an animal is reasonably considered wrong by many people.

The more disturbing part to me, is a group of people who are sitting around and getting their jollies essentially from animals having pain inflicted upon them. What does it say about a person that their idea of entertainment revolves around pain being deliberately inflicted on an animal?

If someone were to walk up to you and say, "Hey, I'm going to set this cat on fire, it's fun, do you want to watch?" -- would you say, sure, go ahead? -- or would you, at a minimum, put some distance between yourself and that person?

I understand that this is a "culturally based" practice. There have been many "culturally based" practices throughout history -- human slavery; human sacrifice; infanticide; feet-binding; suttee; bull and bear baiting -- that we have abandoned or have forced others to abandon. I have no problem doing the same with dogfighting or cockfighting, and urging that these societies would be far better off without these pastimes, and the necessary coarsening effect that these pastimes have on the people who engage in them.

I couldn't track which #### was which.

That's what she said.

My wife's cousin came back from England for it and brought her boyfriend with her. Would you believe he'd never had cornbread? He kinda picked at and couldn't figure out 'why?'.

This from a country whose culinary expertise extends to the pastie and shepherds pie...and you have to wonder why?

The more disturbing part to me, is a group of people who are sitting around and getting their jollies essentially from animals having pain inflicted upon them. What does it say about a person that their idea of entertainment revolves around pain being deliberately inflicted on an animal?

Yet oddly we have no problem watching horse racing and dog racing and absolutely love it when a horse or dogs crash into one another. Nor do we have a problem heading off to a rodeo to watch people cause pain to bulls and horses so that they buck around wildly for our fun or drop young cows with ropes and then tie them up. Nor do we have a problem watching somebody stuff as many hot dogs in their mouth as they can so that we can say wow. There are hunting and fishing competitions all across this country.

There have been many "culturally based" practices throughout history

I thought about going here, but decided that there's perspective to be made between human slavery and chicken fighting. Not disagreeing with you at all. I would like to see it banned, but it's up to the Dominican Republic to do so, not the UN or anything. There's a Darfur issue I'd like to see resolved first.

Cornbread is some of the greatest stuff on earth. Fresh hot cornbread with butter and honey , hmm m m m mmmm, better then warm biscuits.

Ah ha. McCoy and I have found something to agree on. And something quite yummy I might add.

I tend to think dead is dead. The distinctions that we make to alleviate culturally-induced guilt are arbitrary.

that's why i decided to become a cannibal.

I understand, but honestly, and I go back and forth on this, I tend to think dead is dead. The distinctions that we make to alleviate culturally-induced guilt are arbitrary.

I think you may be missing the point, in part.

The problem is only partly with what happens to the animals. Causing unnecessary pain to an animal is reasonably considered wrong by many people.

It's wrong, period.

and absolutely love it when a horse or dogs crash into one another.

Well maybe you do, and maybe that explains your attitude.

Nor do we have a problem watching somebody stuff as many hot dogs in their mouth as they can so that we can say wow.

You do understand that "hot dog" is a reference to a meat product. Those are not real dogs being heated up and eaten.

There are hunting and fishing competitions all across this country

And little boys pull the wings off flies and kill ants with magnifying glasses.

Well maybe you do, and maybe that explains your attitude.

Well, no I don't follow racing but I think you have to be extrememly naive if you don't think Americans don't love to watch crashes. I also think you have to be naive if you don't think American society condones animal cruelty merely for their enjoyment. Sure we don't like dogs killing each other but that just means we have a different fetish.

You do understand that "hot dog" is a reference to a meat product. Those are not real dogs being heated up and eaten.


you do understand that animals have to die for there to be hot dogs right?

And little boys pull the wings off flies and kill ants with magnifying glasses.


So then the millions of Americans who hunt and fish are future serial killers?

Yeah, good cornbread really melts in the mouth. It has to be moist and crumbly though. If it's not moist, it isn't so great.

I always assumed that's how most everyone preferred it. But there are a lot of cornbread lovers who like their's dry.

I detest dog and horse racing. I also am no fan of rodeos and the circus. I choose not to hunt. However, I love to fish. Yes, sometimes I feel a pang of guilt when I whack the king salmon over it's noggin'. It doesn't make a lot of logical sense, I know.

from a fans perspective is there really much difference between cockfighting and boxing? Yes the #### dies a tad more often than boxers, but the relative concept is the same. I understand that it's volunatary vs forced, and again I'm not going to ever watch one of these, but I think a lot of the objections is due to humanizing the animal.

I mean which would you rather be, bred into a small room, fed steroids and feed supplement for 3-6 months, then horribly executed. Or born, raised in a relatively normal farm environment, fed better food than pretty much any chicken has had, raised for a couple of years, then put into a small room where you fight for a few minutes, if you live long enough you are given the right to spend the rest of your days breeding.

Once again, I don't support Cockfighting, I just don't think it's bad in comparison to things we are complicit into allowing to happen. Why worry about the small injustices (the 10,000 or so chickens a year involved in #### fighting) when there are larger ones (the 2billion chickens per year slaughter for a delicisious dinner) that are in the same vein.

Sure we don't like dogs killing each other but that just means we have a different fetish.

Dogs are cute. Have two rats fight to the death and no one will care.

Why worry about the small injustices (the 10,000 or so chickens a year involved in #### fighting) when there are larger ones (the 2billion chickens per year slaughter for a delicisious dinner) that are in the same vein.

Because you can worry about more than one injustice at a time. Yes, cockfighting is pretty far below factory farm treatment of chickens (for me, personally) but that doesn't mean I don't worry about it.

And I think in regards to boxing, the fact that humans are sentient and make the choice to fight is the difference.

Let's face it, as humans in general and Americans in particular we get up for anything sensational. I have no doubt there are a lot of people who will be eating KFC take-home in Queens tonight, see the footage about Pedro, get SUPER pissed and not see the irony. Not a diss on people in Queens. If this were Ichiro! getting caught on film cowtipping or something people would be act the same here.

'Gerbil'? See, now that's just a not-nice dig at Richard Gere.

"Southerners do. That's for sure. The rest of the country yawns at that stuff."

Oh nonsense. All sorts of humans like collisions, crashes, impacts, ect.

What about Canadians cheering one guys nose getting broken crashing against the glass in hockey game?
Or Europeans watching rugbiers get mulilated?

What about the mass appeal of action movies? It sure as hell aint the plot that makes these movies their money. Its the collisions, chases, explosions, ect

Dog racing is big in Wisconsin and not all the dogs find a loving caring home when their racings days are over.

Pedro cracks me up. He's probably my favorite post-Rickey baseball personality.

"Southerners do. That's for sure. The rest of the country yawns at that stuff.
Perhaps not so coincidentally, the last state in the union to allow cockfighting is also in the south, as was Micheal Vicks' dogfighting camp."

By the way, one could also point out that Martinez, Vick and all his homies are black and say that "Blacks love this stuff, thats for sure. The rest of the country yawns."

But yet, I doubt you would support such a statement, and I don't think many others would either. But it is ok to point out the "Southern-ness" as a common factor, but not "black" when the two both apply to the current pariahs equally.
Granted, the frequency of black is alot higher in the South than the North.

If this were Ichiro! getting caught on film cowtipping

His batting style kinda looks like he's in the act of cowtipping

Of course, the clearest factor in both the current dog/cuck fighting in Virginia Beach ghetto, San Pedro de Macoris and the popularity and legality of #### fighting in places like South Carolina and Louisiana in older days is poverty.
Which brings me to something else that irritates me to no end.

The fact that society to will spend millions on political campaign's about how sorry we should feel for the poor, ect ect ... but those same people will cry to no end about how the poor choose to live.

Kind of like how people like to bash those who shop at Wal-Mart because it is bad for the poor, but yet if you ARE poor it is the best place to shop.
Just like how I'm told if I don't buy organic/fair trade/whatever foods I'm not helping the fight against poverty and I'm hurting the poor, ect but it is only the well-off who can afford waste their money on that crap to begin with.

The hypocrisy of those with enough means to be bleeding-hearts baffles me sometimes.

christian guilt.

I have no problem with poor people shopping at Wal-Mart. When you're barely above water your ability to eat or cloth yourself and/or your children is much higher on the priority list than appeasing my particular beliefs in how employees are treated.

If you have the means to make more socially concious decisions, you should. If you only have $20 to buy groceries for the week you do what you have to do.

Wow, a dozen KFC references and no link to (NSFW for bad language):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfan5MacmsI

It's Patton Oswalt, the little guy from King of Queens, doing standup on the "KFC Bowl".

Give it til the 60-second mark, at which point it just rockets...

When I was in college, I was part of a group that visited Belize for a sociology course on so-called "third-world" economies.

One of our stops was a Mennonite farm. We were taken into a large building where various food-production activities took place, at various levels of automation. Up above, a conveyer belt dispatched hundreds upon hundreds of chickens on a long, zigzagging journey through a large room. The chickens would ride along, occasionally taking a new direction, from one end of the room to the other and back again. They seemed comfortable, as if they would shoot the breeze if they could. But everything changed about five feet before the zone. The chickens there began panicking as they noticed the chickens in front of them panicking; their heads turned wildly and they clucked madly. Then each chicken in turn was zapped dead by electrified water.

At a shrimp farm, we watched a dozen or more women lean into long tubs of shrimp, popping their heads off and saving the edible portion for further work. The women earned three cents an hour for their work. Later in the tour, there were stacks of collapsed boxes for the shrimp; one of the members of our group recognized the boxes from having eaten at Red Lobster.

We also visited a meat-packing plant. We got to watch a pig suspended, with its head toward the ceiling and its tail toward the floor. A worker took a gigantic metal implement and stabbed the pig in its midsection, goring it to produce a gigantic opening and eliciting the most inhuman howls imaginable. The final room on the tour had a table displaying packaged hot dogs and pork products.

Dog racing is big in Wisconsin and not all the dogs find a loving caring home when their racings days are over.

I do my best. I've adopted three.

YES THIS IS F!@#ING BADASS

I just dropped into say that cornbread is the greatest food ever. I love that Jiffy brand mix as long as I eat it hot from the oven slathered in butter. Damn, that's good. KFC is nasty, though. When I still ate the meat, I was more a Popeye's guy. The gravy was better.

I do my best. I've adopted three.

Excellent! I'm envious. I can't wait to escape the city so I can adopt one myself. We'll probably look to adopt a pit bull, too. That greyhound better still be able to run, I guess...

I don't really see any problem with the treatment of the shrimp or chicken. The chicken's death seems instant and painless, and as for shrimp they're giant aquatic and insect-ish... I don't really feel bad about swatting a fly dead and they are not halfway as tasty as delectable scrimps are

I can honestly say chicken and shrimp are among my favourite animals to eat.

Everybodies death is instant and painless, it is the stuff that leads to that moment of death that is time consuming and painful.

"Everybodies death is instant and painless, it is the stuff that leads to that moment of death that is time consuming and painful."

Ok, even so I don't really see a few minutes of clucking panicking as being so awful... considering all the other things food animals have to put up with

Well, isn't that another point against it then?

Another reason to buy free-range meat from small farms if you can afford it is that it just tastes better. Seriously, try a roasted chicken made from a Tyson's and one made from a chicken raised on a small local farm, the difference is huge.

Also, for anyone interested in finding out where your food comes from, read The Omnivore's Dilemna by Michael Pollan, it's great.

Another reason to buy free-range meat from small farms if you can afford it is that it just tastes better. Seriously, try a roasted chicken made from a Tyson's and one made from a chicken raised on a small local farm, the difference is huge.

Agree. The first time I tried it, it was amazing.

Edit:

Same goes for wild vs farm raised seafood. Farm raised Salmon is fine, but on the rare occasions my grocer has wild Alaskan salmon, I spring for the extra $4-5 bucks a pound.

"Another reason to buy free-range meat from small farms if you can afford it is that it just tastes better."

I've actually blind taste-tested that on people before and, granted this is no scientific study, the results were completely inconsisnant. Sometimes they liked the organic stuff, sometimes the regular stuff, often they said the two meats were equal

That is because free-range is a farce. It is a marketing gimmick. The only thing that has a free range requirement is poultry. Not their eggs, not cows, not pork, not anything. The only think a producer has to do to qualify as free range is to have the barn/housing unit to have access to an outdoor area. It doesn't matter if they pack'em so tight and make the hole so small that only a few will ever actually go outdoors it is still considered free range.

With food most of the "taste" is wrapped up in peoples minds and wallets.

With food most of the "taste" is wrapped up in peoples minds and wallets.

Be that as it may, I buy Murray's free range, antibiotic free chicken, and Maverick free range, antibiotic fee, grass fed beef and I love it. If it is a scam, I am happy to pay the extra $1-2 a pound for the placebo effect.

Hey, don't get wrong we love you for it. It allows us to charge 32.95 for a pork chop.