I was tempted to add the "obituaries" tag when I approved this article. Marte's career as a relevant prospect is over...if a team with this kind of gaping hole at third base doesn't want him, it's time for Andy to get used to playing in places like Syracuse, Oklahoma City, and Sacramento.

Kid was ninth on Baseball America's top 100 in 2005. Maybe TINSTAAPP really means "There Is No Such Thing As A Prospect. Period."

Dero my hero is no gaping hole.

Is he worse than Jack Hannahan?

wonder if he'll turn out to be another Brandon Phillips...

Well, there was a gaping hole before they made the Dero trade, and there very well may be one again when Dero leaves as a free agent after '09. Wes Hodges may be ready, and then again he may not be.

Third base has been a problem for the Indians since Thome moved over to first base. It's been placeholder after placeholder, and unless DeRosa stays for more than a year, it's tough to think of him as anything other than another in a long line of guys who are keeping the position warm until a real honest-to-goodness prospect wins the job.

In my head at least, he seems to have as much value as say, Brian Buscher.

the Jack Perconte of the new millenium

so who won the crips/marte trade.

Cleveland, I think. They got Shoppach.

was perconte considered a prospect? i thought he was a guy who'd been trapped in the minors, had a decent bit as a fill-in, then sank back into the morass.

Looking at his MiLB stats, where the hell did his walks go?

so who won the crips/marte trade.

The bloods.

Time to take a ride in the Flashback Machine! The link will take you to the original discussion when Marte was traded by the Braves to the Red Sox. There's some high quality overreaction for your amusement...

was perconte considered a prospect?

Bill James sure as fuck thought he was--he pumped him HARD in 3 straight abstracts in the early 80s--twice when he was with the Dodgers & then once with the Tribe

Has anyone ever been a “third baseman of the future” for four teams?

Atlanta. Cleveland, maybe. Certainly not Boston? He was there for about six weeks and they traded him. Apparently they never regarded him as their third baseman of the future.

[15] How'd you get that through the censor?

its all in the wrists

That's what she said.

"Well, there was a gaping hole before they made the Dero trade, and there very well may be one again when Dero leaves as a free agent after '09."

I know why he got the nickname, but it still gives me kind of a turn to see a player described fondly as a "dero".

jmac has a secret that he's refusing to share with the rest of us.

Neat. I only knew Perconte through Topps packs, though I did think of him the other day (when Hulett was DFA'd).

touche #21

EDIT: unfortunately, I know how to say "fuck", but I don't know how to do an accent ague

(I have my priorities)

#23--maybe because it's accent aigu. Séé?

Andy LaRoche = Andy Marte of the future.

Pirates fans would be a lot happier today if they got Carlos Santana instead of Andy LaRoche.

"Andy LaRoche = Andy Marte of the future."

Think what you want. He's been killing the ball in camp, now that his thumb's healthy again.

Think what you want. He's been killing the ball in camp, now that his thumb's healthy again.

So are you saying he is ...in the best shape of his life?

"So are you saying he is ...in the best shape of his life?"

Probably not. He sat out today with back spasms, and he missed the first day or two with the flu. But when he's been in the cage, he's been mashing.

Can anybody provide a post-mortem? What happened?

Bill James sure as #### thought he was--he pumped him HARD in 3 straight abstracts in the early 80s--twice when he was with the Dodgers & then once with the Tribe

I have never followed James as a MiLB talent evaluator. How is he regarding for his evaluations? Has he done more than MLE's?

"That said, I frickin' love this trade for the Red Sox. Marte is a better prospect than Hanley, and should be a very good player very soon. Wow."

Probably not. He sat out today with back spasms, and he missed the first day or two with the flu. But when he's been in the cage, he's been mashing.

Hope and Faith.

LaRoche only has to tick up seven points to match Marte's career OPS+ of 56.

LaRoche only has to tick up seven points to match Marte's career OPS+ of 56.

His thumb is healthy now, so he has a shot at an OPS+ this year of 56.

Hey, laugh all you want, guys. The shoe's going to be on the other foot in a few years.

Vlad - I'm just kidding. As a Dodger fan, I was huge on LaRoche and still can't help rooting for the guy. That being said, you have to admit that at this point, he has certainly earned some ribbing.

Hey, laugh all you want, guys. The shoe's going to be on the other foot in a few years.

You mean when LaRoche is traded to the Red Sox for an underperforming prospect & AAAA roster filler?

That old thread on Marte's trade to the Sox was hilarious. It is a good reminder of the danger of overrating prospects.

In 2003, the two top third base prospects were David Wright and Andy Marte. Marte was actually the better prospect, having hit very well in high A ball at age 19, rather than age 20.

I have not yet found anybody who can separate out the Wrights from the Martes with any reliability. With that in mind, the comments in the original thread were entirely reasonable. Marte had perhaps a 50% chance of becoming an exceptionally valuable property. Perhaps the Braves knew something that the general public did not- about his health/personal problems/PED use for instance, but often times, it is simply a matter of pure chance.

"That being said, you have to admit that at this point, he has certainly earned some ribbing."

For playing badly when he was hurt? If you're into that, then have fun, I guess.

"You mean when LaRoche is traded to the Red Sox for an underperforming prospect & AAAA roster filler?"

No matter how much you ignore Bryan Morris, he's still going to keep existing...

The best part of the Marte/Renteria thread, in hindsight, is how terrible everyone thought Renteria would be; instead, he put together 2 of the 4 best years of his career.

Perhaps the Braves knew something that the general public did not- about his health/personal problems/PED use for instance

That he couldn't hit major league pitching? The word I heard from guys who knew this stuff was that Marte couldn't have been more lost at the plate if you spotted him Gilligan and the S.S. Minnow.

Kid was ninth on Baseball America's top 100 in 2005. Maybe TINSTAAPP really means "There Is No Such Thing As A Prospect. Period."

That seems a bit harsh when you look at the rest of the top 10:
http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/040228top1004.html

Ok, so Joel Guzman didn't really turn into anything, well, if you don't count a blimp. But the rest of the top 10 seems to have panned out in varying degrees, especially #1 Joe Mauer and #10 Hanley Ramirez

For playing badly when he was hurt? If you're into that, then have fun, I guess.

LaRoche's insistence in playing while hurt was a foolish decision.

Bill James sure as #### thought he was--he pumped him HARD in 3 straight abstracts in the early 80s--twice when he was with the Dodgers & then once with the Tribe


Is someone with the texts handy willing to go back and look up these references? This seems exaggerated to me ("pumped him HARD"). I remember Perconte being a Bill James all-star type, not someone James thought would be a star, but an overlooked minor leaguer he thought could contribute (start) in the majors. That was over 20 yrs ago, though, so I my recollection could easily be faulty.

For those who don't remember, Perconte had been a good lefty0hitting 2nd baseman at AAA Albuquerque for several years but the Dodgers jumped Steve Sax up from AA to replace the aging Davey Lopes. Lopes was the first of their famous infield to be replaced.