So after a long and thoughtful deliberation, having considered all the personal and political ramifications, he's decided it would be best for him to be Dominican. How touching.

Probably the biggest wanker in the game today.

Hideki Matsui begs to differ.

I saw the headline and said a silent prayer for Madonna. Or Sister Madonna now, I guess...

i thought it would be the littleist bittiest itsiest wannawank-er

- i know he's a good baseball player but he sure is total used douchewater. actually, what's wrong with douches?

hows about enemas instead?

yeh, that's it

he's used enema water.

I love the idea of the WBC but it really is silly how they determine who can play for what team. You have an Italian sounding last name? Well, then enjoy wearing the Red, White and Green.

I guess if the teams were made up of citizens of the country or people born there, we would have about 5 teams playing.

When I think of some ballplayer from the Dominican Republic, I think of some poor kid who uses a cardboard glove and uses a rock wrapped in string for a ball. A-Rod is about the furthest thing from the DR that I can think of.

and it is a dream of my mom’s that I intend to fulfill.

His mom dreams about the WBC?

Can't we just respect the individual's right to define themselves? After all, these are just random lines drawn on the face of our planet and when we try to define identity for people, it sure turns out a lot worse than some guy not playing for the baseball team we want.

I surely hope the last paragraph of the previous post is sarcastic too. But hey, whatever, people are going to forge their own perspective.

We can like or dislike the guy, as long as we know it's pretty presumptuous to decide that on the basis of whether or not he picks the ethnic/national/racial identity that we in our infinite wisdom and experience of such decisions would like him to pick.

The WBC is not the only organization with strange citizenship rules.

In the Olympics, Italian-Americans played for Italy in hockey. Greek-Americans played for Greece in baseball. The requirement was that they had a single grandparent who had citizenship.

In the 2006 World Cup, something like seven teams (including Japan) had a Brazilian born player on their team.

There are instances in which an Olympic athlete moved to a country in order to be more likely to qualify. An American female basketball player signed with a Russian team with a promise that she would be granted Russian citizenship and play with the Russian national team. I think that a UMASS basketball player chose the DR or PR so that he could play even though he had little connection.

The problem with the WBC seems to be that a player can switch his national allegiance. In the Olympics, you are bound to the first country you play for in international competition. I think that Tim Duncan was hung up on this rule.

The problem with the WBC seems to be that a player can switch his national allegiance. In the Olympics, you are bound to the first country you play for in international competition. I think that Tim Duncan was hung up on this rule.

This I agree with. I have no problem with Piazza playing for the Azzurra, as long as he sticks to it.

In soccer, for example, this wasn't enforced until the 60's. Before that it wasn't uncommon for Eastern European stars who fled their countries after Communist takeovers to represent their Western adopted nations.

I can understand doing this. My father was 100% Italian, and I grew up in a very ethnic household. I love Italian-American stereotypes because I find them all at once mildly offensive and more or less accurate. Anyway, my father was deeply proud of his heritage, and if I were in the same position and had the opportunity to represent both the US and Italy on a large scale in my career, he would cry for weeks. Alas, my father's dead, and I work in a profession where no one gives a #### about representing your heritage.

Is he practicing Kabbalah now? Wonder if this decision has anything to do with that.

Have Bat Will Travel reads the card of a man.
A knight without armor in a savage land...

i don't mind if these membership rules get a little informal. anything that dilutes nationalism in these sporting venues is not the end of the world ... teammates able to establish bonds that transcend nationality and all that. frankly, i'd like to see them stop doing the stupid national anthems for god medal winners at the olympics. it feels anachronistic. do they do that at the awards ceremonies at the end of the wbc?

Personally, I find the people that lambaste ARod for making this decision to infinitely more douchey than ARod. It's pretty clear that for personal reasons, the DR is the team that he really wanted to play for.

And for those that say it's just him putting his finger in the air to figure out what way will give him the best p.r. - that's a crock of ####. As was said in the previous article, MLB put a pressure on him to join the USA team before in order to give more legitimacy to the fledgling event. Those aren't the actions of some primadonna trying to make sure everyone loves him - it's the dilemma of a responsible adult that has to strike a balance between the professional and personal. Last time he joined the US team out of respect for the company that gave him hundreds of millions of dollars and now that things aren't as dependent on him he has the opportunity to do what most pleases him on a personal level.

Believe it or not, ARod doesn't base every decision in his life on what you, the internet message board jackass, may think of it. What I find most amusing though is how people will say that he does everything in his power to get as much good p.r. as possible, but then the decisions he eventually comes to are terrible and the reason why everyone hates him. You'd think that if making people love him was job one, he'd have at least stumbled into a smart, well-placed p.r. opportunity by now.

Personally, I find the people that lambaste ARod for making this decision to infinitely more douchey than ARod. It's pretty clear that for personal reasons, the DR is the team that he really wanted to play for.

So why didn't he have the balls to play for the team he wanted in the first place? And why did he want to play for a country his family is from but not him? My mom was born in England and if I was lucky enough to play a sport in international competition I would do it for the US since I was born here and I am the one playing. How is this debatable?

So why didn't he have the balls to play for the team he wanted in the first place? And why did he want to play for a country his family is from but not him? My mom was born in England and if I was lucky enough to play a sport in international competition I would do it for the US since I was born here and I am the one playing. How is this debatable?

I'd guess that his mother still feels a strong attachment to her native Dominican Republic, and having her son play for the country is something that has great appeal to her. And perhaps Arod does not having a particularly passionate feeling one way or another about what uniform he wears in the WBC, but does have particularly strong feelings about making his mother happy. And so he bowed to pressure the first time around, but is just saying, "**** it, I'm going to do this for my mom," this time.

It seems the easy, unassailable thing for him to do would be to suit up for the U.S. (or not suit up at all). He's not. And while he probably could have handled it better from the outset, I see nothing wrong with his decision here.

The problem with the WBC seems to be that a player can switch his national allegiance. In the Olympics, you are bound to the first country you play for in international competition. I think that Tim Duncan was hung up on this rule.

That isn't the problem with the WBC. It isn't the case that an athlete is bound to the first country s/he represents for Olympic sports. An athlete can switch the country s/he competes for. Switching national representation isn't as easy as it is for the WBC, the typical IOC rule is a 3 year waiting period, which can be waived if the country the athlete is moving from agrees to the waiver, but it is possible. And the 3 year waiting period applies to the Olympics, not all international competition. For example, Bernard Lagat won a bronze in athletics in the 1500m at Sydney 2000, and a silver at Athens 2004, representing Kenya. He represented the US at Beijing 2008.

And there are many athletes, who while they did not represent 2 countries at the Olympics, did compete in international competition for one country, and then switch allegiances subsequently. In some cases, even switching back to the first country.

It is soccer that has the ridiculously uptight rule that limits a player to the first country s/he played for in full senior level international competition.

Does it matter if A-Rod plays for the DR? No. He can do whatever makes him happy. At the same time, my original point was that these citizenship rules of being able to switch countries are a little goofy. But I suppose these rules only reflect the society we live in, namely you are whatever you say you are.

Does it matter if A-Rod plays for the DR? No. He can do whatever makes him happy. At the same time, my original point was that these citizenship rules of being able to switch countries are a little goofy. But I suppose these rules only reflect the society we live in, namely you are whatever you say you are.

What shits me is more than what country he plays for. Remember when he was just an awesome ballplayer?

At the same time, my original point was that these citizenship rules of being able to switch countries are a little goofy

Why are they goofy?

if I was lucky enough to play a sport in international competition I would do it for the US since I was born here and I am the one playing. How is this debatable?

Anyone who feels with absolute certainty they could handle someone else's life better than they themselves do is usually the greatest evidence of the opposite being true. Also, not even bothering to see the debate isn't really great for one's level of understanding.


Why are they goofy?

Because nationalism is generally retarded jingoism.

In the 2006 World Cup, something like seven teams (including Japan) had a Brazilian born player on their team.

Absolutely agree with your general point, but Brazilian footballers are a pretty interesting group in themselves. It's worth noting that outside of Asia, the largest group of immigrants to Japan are Brazilian (and IIRC, the largest group of non-South American immigrants to Brazil are the Japanese), and Alex, the player in question, arrived in Japan at age 16.

The reason why many international teams have Brazilian-born players is because Brazilian youth players can be signed as early as age 16 (and sometimes younger) by European clubs. So Eduardo, for example, moved to Zagreb at age 15, and was called up to the Croatia U-21s aged 19, making his international career decision then and there for the rest of his career. It's this, rather than later re-nationalisation to play for a lesser country, that leads to so many Brazilian born players on different national teams.

I guess if the teams were made up of citizens of the country or people born there, we would have about 5 teams playing.


Except Italy has some of the loosest citizenship laws in the world - basically anybody whose ancestors came from Italy after unification can become a citizen - so a lot of the guys playing for Italy could become Italian citizens as long as they did the necessary paperwork. MLB's rules were that you could play for any country in which you could acquire citizenship. Which is kind of a crappy rule, because you could get guys whose families left Italy in 1902 to play for Italy while David Aardsma, all of whose grandparents are natives of the Netherlands, can't play for the Netherlands because the Dutch have more restrictive citizenship laws. Standard practice in most sports with international competition is that Joe the Distantly Italian American wouldn't be allowed to play for Italy while Aardsma would.

the only exception i can think of to #23 off the top of my head is Senna who plays for spain, who got naturalised spanish because he was resident for six years and was never called up by brazil. it was and still is quite controversial that he plays for spain.

I don't really have a problem with ARod playing for the Dominican. But this is just another one of his massive PR #######, that leads me to conclude that either a) he really doesn't care, at all, even one little bit, about his millions of fans, or b) he's the worst managed celebrity in the history of celebrity. He's made SO many small decisions that have negatively affected his image in the past 10 years that I've lost track of them all.

Because nationalism is generally retarded jingoism.

Isn't that an argument that those rules that allow the athlete to choose are not goofy?

Standard practice in most sports with international competition is that Joe the Distantly Italian American wouldn't be allowed to play for Italy while Aardsma would.

This varies. Many countries require that an athlete acquire citizenship / get naturalised before they will select the athlete. So standard practice would be neither Joe nor Aardsma would be allowed to play.

Once again, a BTF thread proves that it is the pathological ARod haters who are the pathetic ones, not ARod himself.

ut this is just another one of his massive PR #######, that leads me to conclude that either a) he really doesn't care, at all, even one little bit, about his millions of fans, or b) he's the worst managed celebrity in the history of celebrity. He's made SO many small decisions that have negatively affected his image in the past 10 years that I've lost track of them all.

And what this post leads me to believe is that you are complete ####### moron.

I don't really have a problem with ARod playing for the Dominican. But this is just another one of his massive PR #######, that leads me to conclude that either a) he really doesn't care, at all, even one little bit, about his millions of fans, or b) he's the worst managed celebrity in the history of celebrity. He's made SO many small decisions that have negatively affected his image in the past 10 years that I've lost track of them all.

Yes, his mom's feelings are PR crap.

Or maybe his image and what you think are stupid, and he can play baseball and do whatever the #### he wants.

A-Rod's great. He's the Richard Nixon of MLB. Everything he does is sort of clunky whereas no one really cares what Albert Pujols does. Pujols is a citizen now, but if he wanted to play for the DR, who would care? Everyone would think, cool, Pujols is playing in the WBC! (Of course, MLB creates a lot of problems by having zero requirements for what constitutes country of origin. My favorite from the last time is Dan Haren's invitation to play for the Netherlands because they thought his last name was kinda Netherland-ish sounding. It is, in fact, Irish and he's half Mexican.) Anyway, once again I'll be rooting for Cuba to go as far as possible so we can get a look at those guys. I'm happy for the players who get to come to the U.S. and it's too bad they won't let the defectors play for the national team. I'd love to see a fully loaded Cuban team play. Yeah, I know why they won't, but my baseball fandom is irrational. Also, speaking of the SBC, are they going to invite a Brazilian team this time? If South Africa can field a team, why not Brazil?

I don't really have a problem with ARod playing for the Dominican. But this is just another one of his massive PR #######, that leads me to conclude that either a) he really doesn't care, at all, even one little bit, about his millions of fans,

So, you're saying that he should care more about the feelings of anonymous posters on BBTF, than instead of the feelings of his family?

How do you know that his millions of fans view this situation similarly to some anonymous posters on BBTF?

And, because some anonymous posters have an aversion to Madonna, or to an athletic looking female stripper, he should take that into consideration, and allow the hangups of those posters to affect his personal life?

Anyone who feels with absolute certainty they could handle someone else's life better than they themselves do is usually the greatest evidence of the opposite being true. Also, not even bothering to see the debate isn't really great for one's level of understanding.

I think you are taking it a couple steps overboard here, haha. I just think he's being lame and weird again. I didn't say I could handle his life or anything just that I would have acted differently and that I don't see any point in playing for two different nations. If you want to play for one do it from the start.

By the way, my main problem with A-Rod here isn't that he's playing for the DR, it's because he is switching from the US last time for no real reason other than his Mother would like it (I mean, I have nothing against A-Rod's mom, but seriously?). It's not like he is the WNBA star that played for Russia because she wasn't invited to the USA team (I mean, I have problems with the flimsy nationality rules that were there, but I had nothing against her decision). A-Rod played for the USA last time and certainly would have made the team this time too. I don't like how he just changed it for such trivial a reason.

What would have been a non-trivial reason?

By the way, my main problem with A-Rod here isn't that he's playing for the DR, it's because he is switching from the US last time for no real reason other than his Mother would like it

No one gives a rat's ass about your problems with A-Rod's personal decisions. In fact, no one gives a #### about anything you have to say. Sorry.

If you want to play for one do it from the start.

When you qualify for international sporting competition, you can live by that edict. Go nuts!

No one gives a rat's ass about your problems with A-Rod's personal decisions. In fact, no one gives a #### about anything you have to say. Sorry.

Well, we may as well close up shop. No one cares a rat's ass about what ANY of us think.

By the way, my main problem with A-Rod here isn't that he's playing for the DR, it's because he is switching from the US last time for no real reason other than his Mother would like it

See, for me, I can think of few better reasons to switch.

And WJ, as someone on your side of the debate in this particular issue, I'd suggest you might want to scale back the rageometer from the psychotic setting. I think you're scaring the children (and possibly the Shooty).

And WJ, as someone on your side of the debate in this particular issue, I'd suggest you might want to scale back the rageometer from the psychotic setting. I think you're scaring the children (and possibly the Shooty).

Just a little! I see where WJ is coming from and I'm sympathetic, but we're all just talking here. My SOP is to try to engage these threads like I would a conversation in real life. A-Rod as a media construction is an interesting topic, though. The general consensus is that he's a doosh and I find it fascinating how that's happened as he's nowhere near a Barry Bonds or a Brett Myers in terms of jackassness. Why can't we love A-Rod? (and by "we" I mean the sporting public in general, not obsessives like us.) Is it racial? Then why is Derek Jeter teflon in both reputation and glove? Is it xenophobia? Then why do people love David Ortiz so much? Hell, I bet Manny Ramirez is more popular than A-Rod. Is it because he's "too" good? Then why is Albert Pujols pretty universally admired? It's interesting, especially as very few of us have any real access to these guys. It's all constructed for us. Why do I like Chase Utley more than David Wright? There's no reason for it. Does anyone else have the Treasury of Baseball Fiction? I may be misremembering the name. There's a story in it about a ballplayer whom everyone hates and he can't figure out why he's hated and a rival player, who's a bit inferior, is so beloved. Someone ends up telling him why he's hated and he goes about doing the things that get you loved as a ballplayer and his popularity immediately skyrockets even though the only changes he has made are cosmetic, not intrinsic. I read that story when I was 13 or so and it has really stuck with me. So much of what we hold dear is just crap we've made up in our own minds. That sounds more critical than I mean it. The power of the imagination both individually and collectively amazes me with its power.

I should try out for the Italian team; they ain't got crap in the outfield.

Why can't we love A-Rod? (and by "we" I mean the sporting public in general, not obsessives like us.) Is it racial?

Forgetting something?

You make a good point Shooty. I was trying to figure out the same thing. Maybe it's because he's the highest paid player in the game. I don't remember him being hated when he was a Mariner.
Maybe it's because we can't connect with A-Rod. Not to say that we can have a deep connection with other players, but they might offer something that we see in ourselves or we can appreciate.

A-Rod wasn't born into complete poverty like many players from the DR and other countries are. He hasn't dealt with personal struggles (like Josh Hamilton has). He hasn't suffered a major injury and then had to slowly work his way back to the top. He's not a clubhouse character (Manny) or someone who can be seen as a villain (Bonds). He's just always been really good and that's it.

Can't we just respect the individual's right to define themselves? After all, these are just random lines drawn on the face of our planet and when we try to define identity for people, it sure turns out a lot worse than some guy not playing for the baseball team we want.

We're both pretty raging liberals, but this is the difference between us, the difference between a more idealistic liberalism and pragmatic liberalism. Yes, we can respect the right to define himself. We do. Nobody went to him and said "You're playing for the Japanese. Now shut the #### up and get out there." But there are consequences to that. One of those is in the thoughts of others, others who self-define, as well. And their self-definition includes a distaste for what he's doing here. I don't agree with them, and even if I did, I've got eleven things within my sight that are bigger problems than A-Rod playing for the DR. But it exists, it's real, and it's something A-Rod should have been aware of before he made the decision. If he was, great, he knew what he was getting into. If he wasn't, he really needs to be less naive.

Look: this selfish, self-centered arsehole abandoned his wife and children for an over-the-hill celebuskank that he probably fantasized about as a little boy. So why in the world would it surprise anyone that he doesn't give a crap about what country he plays for? He's going to do whatever the hell he wants to do, and that's it. Nothing he did at this point would surprise me in the least.

Nothing he did at this point would surprise me in the least.

I bet he'll come up with some zingers considering he's going to have a weird kid with an old famous lady for religious reasons, and he's still relatively young.

that I don't see any point in playing for two different nations. If you want to play for one do it from the start.

That's too simplistic in a general situation.

This doesn't apply to ARod's situation, but, what if you represented a country, then, moved to another one to go to college, and to train, met a local girl / boy, fell in love, settled there, and am now living / training there full time? See, Wilson Kipketer, Kenyan born, moved to Denmark, who still holds the WR in the 800m.

Or, what if the country that you were born in, and grew up in, discriminates against your ethnic group? Naim Suleymanoglu, Bulgarian born Turkish weightlifter.

Why can't we love A-Rod?

I like him OK, but a lot of people seem to think he is greedy, phony and a choker.

Is it racial?

To the degree that there is any prejudice against Rodriguez, I think it is more mild homometrosexuophobia. He is kind of a pretty boy type, and unlike popular pretty-boy superstar jocks Tom Brady and Derek Jeter, Rodriguez doesn't coolly boff young, hot actresses and models while keeping somewhat clear of the tabloids. Brady supposedly dumped a pregnant Bridget Moynihan so he could start/keep screwing Gisele Bundchen, but hell, that is just being a red-blooded male and trading up from a Corvette to a Maserati. Jeter, of course, has supposedly screwed a bunch of actresses people fantasize about such as Scarlett Johansson and Jessica Biel, while avoiding paternity/fidelity/marital issues AFAIK.

Rodriguez, OTOH, supposedly likes she-male strippers, is famous for the "Slappy" play, got a very public divorce, and is now hooked up with a 50- year-old ripped celebocougar who symbolizes skankiness for millions.

Add this to the bad post-seasons, and the gigantic contracts, and there you go. Playing for the DR instead of the USA will just add to it.

OTOH, a big WS performance with the Yankees winning a title and The Rod's eventually breaking Bonds' record could still allow The Rod to retire as a hero after all. There is a long way to go in this story.

See, for me, I can think of few better reasons to switch.

Me too. But as I suggest in #49, I think a lot of people will assume that Rodriguez is just bullshitting about the reason and wants attention, or is "afraid" he wouldn't start at 3b for the US team, or is mad about getting booed/mocked in the States and is "getting even", or that it is somehow connected to Madonna etc etc etc. Is David Wright playing? I assume so, and if he is, you could make a case for him as the primary USA 3b as opposed to ARod.

Rodriguez will be 36 in 2012 when the next WBC comes around and may not want to play, so maybe he IS just doing it as a way to do something for his mom.

Rodriguez will never be a True Dominican.

Going by the headline, looks like A-Rod wasn't listening too closely to Dennis Savard.

Going by the headline, looks like A-Rod wasn't listening too closely to Dennis Savard.

Well, if he followed Savvy's advice, it would be Arod, a couple of Pirate minor leaguers and who? Isn't that like signing with the Rangers.

We're both pretty raging liberals, but this is the difference between us, the difference between a more idealistic liberalism and pragmatic liberalism.

I'd agree, as long as you'd acknowledge that I'm the pragmatic one.