Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Thursday, May 15, 2008

Jazz. com: Kurtz: Kerouac, Jazz, and Baseball

What in the name of Maynard Ferguson G. Krebs brought this on?

On those rare occasions when he spelled a musician’s name right and matched him with the correct instrument, Kerouac still managed to make a fool of himself. Jazz fans have no doubt heard, for example, “the sudden squeak uninhibited that screams muffled at any moment from Dizzy Gillespie’s trumpet.” Say what? An uninhibited squeak that screams muffled! Oh, yeah, far out. Not only does the squeak scream, it’s so uninhibited it’s muffled. Hey, pass those bennies over here, man.

All of which brings our roundabout safari to “Congo Blues.” In his magnum opus On the Road (1957), Kerouac cites this track as an early Dizzy Gillespie record with Max West on drums. Who?  For working stiffs without the benefit of bennies, Max West was a baseball player, not a drummer. For that matter, “Congo Blues” was not a Dizzy Gillespie record. It was by Red Norvo & His Selected Sextet. What’s especially galling, though, is Kerouac’s reference to this “valued” record. Sure, so valued Jack can’t recall the bandleader, and thinks the drummer had a .254 lifetime batting average and made the 1940 National League All-Star Team.

This is a sad fate to befall an important Swing-to-Bop transitional track. Recorded on the first anniversary of D-Day, the Allied invasion during World War II that signaled the beginning of the end for Nazi Germany, “Congo Blues” signaled the beginning of the end for the Swing Era. But besides its historical importance, this track is more fun than a barrel of beatniks washing over Niagara Falls.

Niagara Falls, slowly iTunes...Giant Steps by Giant Steps.

Repoz Posted: May 15, 2008 at 12:08 AM | 30 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralHistoryMusic

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Son of Snigglet Posted: May 15, 2008 at 01:48 AM (#2781575)
This is pretty asinine, but not too surprising. A lot of uptight figures in jazz have tried to distance the music from the Beats, mostly based on false images from the slander campaign against the Beats in the 50s and 60s waged by the media, who viewed them as an insidious communistic threat to American youth.

I grew up on Kerouac and Ginsberg--they opened the door to the world of literature for me, and I think the writing will eventually out run the stigma, and guys like Alan Kurtz won't have to get all huffy over the outside possibility of people not liking jazz because of a stereotype that's already pretty fusty.
   2. Tiboreau Posted: May 15, 2008 at 02:39 AM (#2781584)
Kerouac cites this track as an early Dizzy Gillespie record with Max West on drums. Who? For working stiffs without the benefit of bennies, Max West was a baseball player, not a drummer. . . . had a .254 lifetime batting average and made the 1940 National League All-Star Team.

Max West had a nice PCL career after WWII, winning 3 HR titles and was probably the only professional ballplayer to walk over 200 times in a season before Barry Bonds. His 1949 batting line:
tm  .  g  pa  avgab h 2b 3b hr  tb r rbi  bb sb  obpslg.  ops tob
SDP  189 820 .291 619 180 41  2 48 369 166 166 201  4 .465 .596 1.061 381

In 8 full seasons (and two very partial ones) West hit .291 with 230 HR in 4346 AB and was inducted into the PCL Hall of Fame in 2003.
   3. Mattbert Posted: May 15, 2008 at 04:25 AM (#2781590)
I wonder if Kerouac was thinking of Max Roach, who did in fact play with Gillespie on occasion albeit not on the record in question. However, given Kerouac was looking back on a record that was around a decade old, it's understandable how the presence of Gillespie (and Charlie Parker!) on this tune could overshadow the fact that Norvo wrote it and was the bandleader.
   4. andrewberg Posted: May 15, 2008 at 08:42 AM (#2781629)
For all intents and purposes, Ginsberg was my introduction to poetry and it made lots of other things much less scary. Kerouac, Williams, and Burroughs were a natural step, but it also made me open to Whitman and lots of modern literature, which eventually became my favorite genre. Looking back, I don't think I would have ever embraced Pound or Elliot if I hadn't already learned and appreciated Ginsberg, and I doubtfully would have ever even tried Joyce, who is almost certainly my favorite author.
   5. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 15, 2008 at 08:43 AM (#2781631)
After the first paragraph, I was wondering how this could have anything to do with baseball.

After finishing, I'm still not all that sure. But I do love a good music discussion.

"Groovin' High"--greatest jazz record? I think maybe. Boy, was Diz and that band good.
   6. Hubie Brooks Posted: May 15, 2008 at 09:43 AM (#2781673)
So after drinking and hanging out for days he got some details wrong about some music he liked. He liked the Jazz experience, the vibe. He never claimed his books were chock full of facts about Jazz greats.

Poor Jack getting bashed by a Jazz nerd on the internet.
   7. Sparkles Peterson Posted: May 15, 2008 at 09:45 AM (#2781676)
Jazz sucks and I'm tired of hearing about it.
   8. gef the talking mongoose Posted: May 15, 2008 at 09:53 AM (#2781682)
Jazz sucks and I'm tired of hearing about it.


It does, yes, but classical is probably even worse -- dead music for dead people. Nothing but cover bands, really, playing crap that's been around for centuries. Wow. I mean, it's like if novelists today only rewrote stuff from the 18th century, changing the occasional comma or paragraph break, or artists only re-created the Old Masters, every now & then altering a brush-stroke or color choice.

I guess the same goes for opera, but who in the hell cares about opera? A bunch of silly pedants somewhere, probably ...
   9. ian Posted: May 15, 2008 at 09:55 AM (#2781687)
"Groovin' High"--greatest jazz record? I think maybe. Boy, was Diz and that band good.

"A Tribute To Jack Johnson"
   10. BFFB Posted: May 15, 2008 at 10:07 AM (#2781697)
For greatest Jazz record of all time I couldn't look further than "In a Silent Way" by Mile Davis, arguably the best single work by the most innovative jazz composer of the last century, who instigated a paradigm shift in music on at least two occasions. He basically invented modal jazz all by himself, which really freed up what a soloist could do. Never mind pioneering fusion along with Wayne Shorter and the incorporation of classical elements in his collaborations with Gil Evans.

His only real challenger is Trane who brought us Om and Ascension, alongside his other more well known stuff.

And if anyone wants some reccomendations. Seek out Anthony Braxton, For Alto is a masterwork and I have recently discovered some Japanese Jazz from the Three Blind Mice label, which is sublime.
   11. spike Posted: May 15, 2008 at 10:07 AM (#2781698)
I first heard about Slim Gaillard from reading Jack Kerouac, so I am perfectly willing to forgive the details.

Greatest jazz record? Monk's Crepescule With Nellie - the verson with Coltrane from Monk's Music
   12. ian Posted: May 15, 2008 at 10:17 AM (#2781711)
#10,

"I've changed music four or five times. What have you done of any importance other than be white?"
- Miles Davis at a (R.R.) White House party, in response to a society lady asking him why he was there.
   13. jwb Posted: May 15, 2008 at 11:18 AM (#2781792)
She didn't ask him if he was a Secret Service agent or a shoeshine boy, did she?
   14. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 15, 2008 at 11:48 AM (#2781833)
On the other hand, he did recognize that being white is important enough.
   15. Spiked Owen Posted: May 15, 2008 at 11:51 AM (#2781843)
gef,

I absolutely agree and absolutely disagree. I love the "cover bands" line. It's so true. But the thing is, I love a good cover band. Hell, the last concert I went to had a shocking crowd-rocking cover mix of Duran Duran's "Hungry Like the Wolf" and "Rio." Live music is a different experience; besides, there are no original recordings of Mozart.

You're simile about "if artists only re-created the grand masters" is technically incorrect, but sadly accurate. If you think of it as "Orchestral Music" instead of "Classical", you'll see that it should be a live genre, Opera too. It is not "dead music for dead people." The problem is the ridiculous cultural and socioeconomic trappings involved. They've practically killed the genre; they obviously have killed it for you. Orchestra audiences stay home whenever new pieces are performed (often for good reason), so the symphony halls become glorified juke boxes.

But, I refuse to toss Mozart under a bus just because rich snobby types use him as a cultural trump card. Some of it is brilliant. Same with great jazz. Opera is much less to my taste, but watch "Rabbit of Seville" and tell me that's not great music.

95% of any genre is crap. But there's something great in every genre too. Sorry if that was pedantic.
   16. GGC won't apologize for liking the Red Sox Posted: May 15, 2008 at 11:55 AM (#2781852)
It does, yes, but classical is probably even worse -- dead music for dead people. Nothing but cover bands, really, playing crap that's been around for centuries. Wow. I mean, it's like if novelists today only rewrote stuff from the 18th century, changing the occasional comma or paragraph break, or artists only re-created the Old Masters, every now & then altering a brush-stroke or color choice.


*Head explodes*
   17. gef the talking mongoose Posted: May 15, 2008 at 12:14 PM (#2781878)
Spiked Owen & Gary Geiger Counter --

Oh, don't mind me. I'm just in a bad mood because the NPR station plays classical at noon (when I'm often in my car) instead of news or whatever, & while I would normally just punch in the local sports station, nowadays at middday its runs a locally produced show featuring a couple of imbecile local sportswriters & a local sports radio guy who makes them look like geniuses. (And the Auburn station hasn't broadcast over here in more than a year. At first they blamed it on tower problems, but it's pretty clear at this late date that that was a lie.)

*sigh* I mean, as far as I can tell there are 2 local NPR or NPR-like stations; is it too much to ask for *one* of 'em to play something besides classical at a certain point in the day? That's why I wound up not contributing a dime during the latest beg-a-thon.
   18. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 15, 2008 at 01:33 PM (#2781997)
The problem is the ridiculous cultural and socioeconomic trappings involved.

Welcome also to the wonderful world of modern art.
   19. Spiked Owen Posted: May 15, 2008 at 02:22 PM (#2782085)
gef,

NPR-based frustration is understood, especially in the southeast. NPR down there always seemed limited to classical music with a bit of news, and Garrison Keillor on the weekends. Although when in Tallahassee I loved the BBC country music show, 2am every Wednesday morning.

I'm in Philadelphia now and the radio problems are different. We've got an NPR news station and an NPR genre music station (roughly daytime classical, then jazz at night), and WXPN, an NPR adult-alternative-yuppie-hipster mashup that is alternately really interesting and insanely annoying. Sometimes all three are doing music talk shows instead of actually playing music.

When I'm feeling masochistic I tune in to Philadelphia sports talk radio. Howard Eskin is amazing. People call in and he explains why they are pathetic morons. Plus, he's a dead ringer for that creepy Burger King guy, he even wears a full length fur coat to games. Like Rosario Dawson says near the end of Clerks II, "I'm disgusted . . . and I can't look away."
   20. Edmundo was digging the Italian ladies Posted: May 15, 2008 at 03:02 PM (#2782212)
WXPN, an NPR adult-alternative-yuppie-hipster mashup that is alternately really interesting and insanely annoying.
Insanely annoying like the hipper-than-thou DJ Michaela Mijoun and all the whiny, too precious for words singer-songwriters like Lily Allen and Rufus Wainwright? But then they'll play some mix of Joe Cocker, Fela Kuti and some country-rocker I never heard of and all will be alright.
The Blues Show on Saturday nights (6 hours!) is really impressive. Johnny Meister's been doing that since the late 70s that I know of. My wife will bear with it if I have it on -- her favorite show of all times was when Johnny had his "Dust My Broom" special, some time in the early 80's. Then the show was only 4 hours long, IIRC, and they played all the different versions of "Dust My Broom" that they knew about. Allmusic.com has 368 references. The following week they started off with a version of DMB that they had missed -- some listener had called in with the info. My wife just about freaked out.

Spiked, you should not look at car wrecks and you should not listen to Howard Eskin. Both are detrimental to your karma.
   21. spike Posted: May 15, 2008 at 03:06 PM (#2782218)
This is my (fabulous) local AM station in Atlanta. Blues, soul, rnb, jazz, country and rockabilly - nonstop. Streaming available.

http://www.1690wmlb.com/pages/home

Totally made me give up (mostly) on NPR.
   22. Edmundo was digging the Italian ladies Posted: May 15, 2008 at 03:21 PM (#2782271)
One last thing on the "Dust My Broom" special. I remember Johnny apologizing for playing ZZ Top's version, stating that he was going to play all versions. Even Johnny can be a little bit snobby about his area, obviously he did not consider ZZ Top a "real" blues band.
   23. Shooty misses Bill King Posted: May 15, 2008 at 03:24 PM (#2782282)
Jazz is great. 90% of the contemporary music sounds like it was written for dead people or, more accurately, the undead. Even worse is classic rock which has been hyped and played into dust. The Rolling Stones were great, but hearing Satisfaction yet again makes me feel I'm in a wating room while some bureaucrats decide whether I'm being assigned to hell or some bland level of purgatory. For a guy like me who grew up with nothing but pop music on the radio, jazz is still an undiscovered country and a revelation.
   24. Shooty misses Bill King Posted: May 15, 2008 at 03:28 PM (#2782308)
spike, I will definitely check that out. It sounds excellent. It reminds me of a radio station I heard while driving through Charleston, SC one time.
   25. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 15, 2008 at 03:44 PM (#2782359)
jazz is still an undiscovered country and a revelation.

Agreed...I always knew about Louis, but Diz...I had no idea; Tatum and Powell...I had no idea; Monk...I had no idea; etc. Sometimes it takes time to get to where you can get it. I still don't get a lot of it.

whiny, too precious for words singer-songwriters like Lily Allen

I hate whiny precious singer-songwriters, but Lily Allen is not one of those. Too much edge to be down with the whiny crowd. Her debut disc is gear.
   26. gef the talking mongoose Posted: May 15, 2008 at 03:45 PM (#2782362)
I dunno if that was the one (I think had FM on instead), but when I was in Atlanta for a business-related conference for a couple of days last August, I came across a station that played a fabulous mix of old country, good rap (too often a contradiction in terms to my jaded white ears), roots rock & the like.
   27. penalcolony Posted: May 15, 2008 at 05:19 PM (#2782563)
Mattbert's got half of it, I think. "Max West" is probably a conflation of Max Roach and another drummer of the same period, Harold West, a.k.a. ""Doc" West, who recorded with Parker and/or Gillespie on several occasions. West was well known in the 1940s, and would probably be better known today if he hadn't died at 36 in 1951.
   28. spike Posted: May 15, 2008 at 05:44 PM (#2782582)
Ah, tell it to Clifford Brown
   29. ian Posted: May 15, 2008 at 10:03 PM (#2782755)
Am I alone in thinking ####### Brew to be merely "good"?
   30. Edmundo was digging the Italian ladies Posted: May 16, 2008 at 08:29 AM (#2782949)
Am I alone in thinking ####### Brew to be merely "good"?
I really like BB but I came to jazz as a rock'n'roller so I'm more inclined to like the fusion stuff than the more jazz oriented people are
Page 1 of 1 pages

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

My Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Vivid Seats is a sports ticket broker, concert ticket broker and theater ticket broker offering the best baseball tickets like Yankees tickets, Cubs tickets, and Red Sox tickets, as well as Police reunion tour tickets and Jersey Boys tickets.

Ticket Nest sells Braves, Cubs, Padres, Indians, Marlins, Nuts, Pirates, Rangers, Patriots, Royals, Stars, Tides, Tigers, Twins, Phillies, Wings, Mets, Yankees, Angels, Dodgers tickets, and Dragons tickets.

Buy Cheap MLB Tickets

Concerts Theatre NFL Angels Dodgers MLB Celtics Theater NBA Tickets Venues NHL Lakers Tickets NFL Yankees NHL Phillies NBA Wicked Marlins MLB Concerts Cubs Mets Red Sox Wicked WWE Red Sox Mets Yankees Dodgers

Page rendered in 0.6096 seconds
81 querie(s) executed