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I'd think that Ortiz, Lowell, Beckett and Pedroia might be able to sneak in, too. Yaz 'n Youk is the most interesting one.
I wonder if he'll be taking his 22-year-old kid out to upstate New York to watch Manny Being First Ballot?
Hey, it worked for Gossage.
Box Score.
Plus Jim being Jim...he flied out to end the 7-4 game with the two runners on base...in a wacky DP setting.
C Fisk over Varitek
1B Yaz over Youkilis (based on reputation; they were about equal)
2B Pedroia over Doyle/Griffin
3B Lowell over Petrocelli
LF Rice over Manny (just because Manny had about his worst season)
CF Lynn over Crisp
RF Evans over Drew
DH Ortiz over Cooper/Carbo
Lineup 5-4 '75
Rotation:
1. Beckett
2. Matsuzaka
3. Lee
4. Wise or Tiant
5. Schilling
I figure the innings that the '75 guys threw made up for some of the differences in ERA+, but it would be hard to keep the '07 team's top three out of the rotation. I can't believe that Rice would really believe that Beckett would not be in the rotation.
Bullpen:
1. Papelbon
2. Okajima
3. Lopez
4. Burton
5. Timlin
6. Drago (or Snyder)
The bullpen isn't even close. This is a huge advantage for the '07 team. Lefty Jim Burton was the only one on the '75 team to pitch well enough to be considered, and the '07 team had a couple of lefties that were better.
What makes you think he needed to be provoked? This is just your basic bitter old guy saying the game was better in my day, my teammates were better than these guys now etc etc.
And I have no doubt he really believes what he's saying, just as I have no doubt that Frankie Frisch truly believed that every ex-teammate he rammed through the Vets committee and into the HOF was deserving.
Say Jim Rice was the chairman of the Veterans Committee, and managed to rule it with an iron hand. Who would become the new crop of Hall of Famers? Fred Lynn? Luis Tiant? Dwight Evans? Bruce Hurst? Rich Gedman? Bernie Carbo? Bob Stanley, the Jesse Haines of his generation?
stages of aging: (or feeling like you're aging)
1. ballplayers are younger than you
2. cops are younger than you
3. doctors are younger than you
4. bitter old ballplayers are younger than you
sheesh
Don't sell Jim Ed short. He could be pretty bitter when he was young too.
Kev, kev, you're pissier than usual today? Didn't get a good night's sleep?
The Sox are 5.5 games up on the Yankees, whatever could be wrong?
Seriously, did you really meet Nieporent in person? And no one got hurt?
Some things are 100% predictable. Old ballplayers complaining about the kids today not being able to hold their jockstraps (ugh, what an image) is just one of the big ones.
No. I was going by the stats. (I was a year shy of birth in '75.) He had a good year in '75. If you were going to go by "stuff," my guess is that at least among relievers, current guys are going to at least LOOK better, because of the velocity and what not.
While Fisk is of course a better ballplay than Varitek, he missed half the year in 1975. Is 79 games of .331/.395/.529 150 OPS+ better than 131 games of .255/.367/.421 103 OPS+? On the other hand, Fisk was there for the WS, but on the other other hand, Rice was not. So, either Tek/Pudge is a push, or Manny creams Juan Beniquez.
2. cops are younger than you
3. doctors are younger than you
4. bitter old ballplayers are younger than you
5. some of your kids' teachers are clearly too young to be out of high school
Either that or a three year window view
Yaz from 1974-76 was a 140- 111- 120 OPS+ so his 1975 talent level was what? 125?
Youks from 2006-08 106-117-139 (1/3 season of 139) 115 OPS from 2006-08
Youks may be a better fielder at 1b than Yaz was from 1974-75.
So Youks in his age 27-29 prime is pretty close to the player Yaz was post-prime ages 34-36 (Yaz from ages 27-29 just completely blows Youks out of the water though)
Also, the 1975 Red Sox outscored their opponents by 87 runs, the 2007 Red Sox by 210. Since the 2007 Red Sox were much better relative to their time, Rice must believe that that the quality of play has completely collapsed over the last 30 years. What a jerk. I hope he doesn't get his undeserved 1.7%.
I thought Rice had always been seen as a surly, bitter, selfish type guy, so I assumed this kind of stuff coming from him would surprise no one as he ages.
In the James thing Blackadder mentions, James quotes Joe Dugan as saying pretty much the same thing about the '32 and '78 Yankees. I think Munson was the only Bronz Zooer Dugan had in the lineup...
Well, in fairness to Dugan, it wasn't their talent that would have kept Reggie Jackson and Willie Randolph off the 1932 Yankees.
Outplayed their Pythag by 7.... never knew that...
I do recall thinking at the time that they were totally outclassed by the Big Red Machine
But that's not fair, the mid 70s Reds were monsters.
The 70s gave me my first real impression of how baseball was, how it should be played, and how winning teams should be built.
Reds bludgeoned teams into submission with offense, kept Team pitching and defense respectable.
My team, the Mets, were built on pitching and defense, couldn't get out of 80 wins, and when the frontline pitching collapsed (was traded away) the team collapsed to 95 losses and stayed there.
I could never understand fellow Met fans who kept parroting the "pitching and defense win championships" line, I had grown up observing that philosophy was wrong, maybe if I was old enough to have paid attention to 1969 I'd think differently, but no, I grew up thinking: "Bid Red Machine model works, Pitching and Dee can get you to 3rd place".
Obviously in the mid 80s I loved Davey Johnson.
I just can't picture anyone saying that. Here's John Smoltz, for instance:
"What didn't sit well with me," he said, "is when everyone tried to justify [closing] as my ticket to the Hall of Fame. I kept trying to say over and over again, 'I don't care about that, or about setting up standards so I can make it.' All I ever cared about was having another ring on my finger."
espn.com
6. the president is younger than you.
if obama makes it, that applies to me.
Yeah. That's why I don't find this newsworthy. Maybe Rice pissed Repoz off at CBGBs or something. That might explain the ongoing Rice obsession, but Rice doesn't seem like a CBGBs guy.
Hell, that happened to me when I was in high school.
I swear, she looked just like anyone else in the room, maybe a senior.
Ah, the factor McCain is counting on to win this fall. Few voters are older than him and the voters between his and Obama's age are the crew most likely to vote.
Mandatory baseball content...
Obama was born August 4th, 1961 - the same year as Andres Galarraga, Don Mattingly, Rick Aguilera, and Jimmy Key (among others).
McCain was born August 29th, 1936 - the same year as Harmon Killebrew, Frank Howard, Bill Mazeroski, and Don Drysdale (among others).
The year Obama was born we saw 61 HR hit for the first time. The year McCain was born we saw Babe Ruth inducted into the Hall of Fame.
for McCain you have Oswalt, Rowand, Doug Decinces....not really much there.
For Obama you have Roger Clemens, Dallas Green, Jake Beckley... a little better line there. :)
Did you hit it?
Are you Luis Polonia?
In this scenario, isn't Sample Size is the anti-Polonia.
6. The frightening, trying-to-look-15-years-younger-than-she-is blond from Sex In The City is younger than you are.
Guidry was the other, and he claimed both would be in the bullpen.
Neither of them do anything for the All Presidents team. Best hope is that McCain chooses Condi Rice for VP and then dies in office.
With Condi?
Now THERE's an image.
Jesse Haines, hell. Bob Stanley was more like the Syl Johnson of his generation.
Yeah, me neither. It's like one of those Albert Belle jokes or something.
This is surprising coming out of Rice because a) he is currently employed as an analyst for the Red Sox network, and b) he is usually incredibly bland in his analysis. A lot of talk about how it feels to do this, or what to look for in that situation, and a whole lot of platitudes. He will occasionally make an "in my day" type remark, but nothing even close to this.
And, of course, he's not even close to right. He looks downright delusional, in fact. Comparing stats, of course, misses Rice's point, because he's saying that the whole league was better, making it tougher to put up stats. But guys are bigger and stronger now. They throw harder and work at their game year round. They take steroids for crying out loud!
Yep, I remember that one being a big deal to me when I was 19 and looking through some magazines. Rich Garces was the first player younger than me in the majors and that was nearly a year later.
Well, I've still got Jamie Moyer.
The first player younger than me played his last game nearly 13 years ago.
a bad day for the Rice man
Yep, I remember that one being a big deal to me when I was 19 and looking through some magazines. Rich Garces was the first player younger than me in the majors and that was nearly a year later.
And Garces had bigger tits than the Playmate, too!
WTF? The series was one of the most closely fought ever.
Well, it was a reasonable belief before the series started. The Reds had gone 108-54, following seasons of 95, 99 and 98 victories in what was generally considered the better league . The Red Sox, in contrast, had gone 95-65, but were an 84-win team the season before. And, as was noted above, their pyth record wasn't very impressive (not that pyth existed at the time, but you could certainly glean an impression about a team's strength without knowing the exact runs scored-runs allowed totals).
Obviously, the World Series was a great one. But the belief going into that series that the Reds were the superior team was not unfounded.
Frankly, I had the same feeling before the 86 series. The Sox were certainly in a great position to win that one too, but I never thought they were actually better than that Mets team (and looking it up, the Mets-Reds had identical W-L records, while the sets of Red Sox teams were comparative W-L records were separated by a half-game. Weird).
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