Yes, with UZR, Torii AND Adam Jones scored negative numbers … again, you might call total bull on that. And I understand, I really do. You might simply know, in your heart, that Hunter is still as great as he ever was out there and that Adam Jones is a defensive dynamo. But now I’m going to show you the Dewan plus/minus and the UZR for another outfielder. You already know who this is: Franklin Gutierrez.
Dewan: +43
UZR: +29.1
Do me a favor, no matter how you may feel about defensive numbers: Just look at those again. Compare them. Please? Everyone here knows I love these stats, but even if you think they are irreparably flawed — could they be THAT WRONG? His plus minus is SIXTY THREE PLAYS better than Adam Jones. His UZR suggests he saved more than THIRTY RUNS more Torii Hunter. Could they be that wrong?
Well, obviously, I don’t think so. I spent some time watching these players … I ended up watching quite a few Seattle games last year. There is little doubt in my mind that Frankllin Gutierrez was every bit as good as the numbers suggest, and that he was a much, much, much, much better defensive player than any of the three, including Ichiro who I think had a terrific defensive year. That’s not a knock. Gutierrez had a monster defensive year. A near-legendary defensive year.
...I really feel like the Gutierrez snub is a huge blight on this year’s Gold Glove award. He had a defensive year for the ages. It seemed impossible to miss. But he’s a limited offensive player (not bad but limited), and he played out in Seattle (and maybe the voters didn’t want to choose TWO Mariners), and this was his first year in center field (he had been an utterly brilliant defensive right fielder in Cleveland). I appreciate that the Gold Glove is a flawed award and always has been, but it is for now THE award for defense, and I really wish they had gotten this one right. I think they should have gotten it right.
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"Buerhle has defensive chops, but his ability to hold runners is legendary. In the last four years he's allowed a total of 15 stolen bases, picked off 14 baserunners, and thrown over to first—only to have the runner break for second and be thrown out—16 times."
Only 15 SBs with A.J. Pierzynski as his catcher?! In 4 years?! Yes, I am a White Sox fan but that has nothing to do with this post:)
You're misremembering. This is not a particularly egregious group.
I've been thinking this, too. There aren't many guys who wow me with the glove right now. Does anyone else have this impression?
Do you mean that the voters did a worse job than usual at identifying the best fielders by position? Because, if so, I'd agree with Dewey in #5. The results here are about par for the course. Somebody posted UZR for the AL winners and Polanco and Longoria deserved their awards. Teixeira's not a bad choice - UZR doesn't like him, but they have in the past and subjective impressions were that he was great, Ichiro's what he's always been, very good, albeit for a right fielder, Mauer probably deserved his. If you think holding on baserunners is part of "fielding" then Buerhle absolutely deserved his. Jeter didn't deserve his, but given that this is his 4th win, it's hard to see that as historically egregious. I definitely agree with Pos, et al. that Gutierrez is a big miss, but those happen (e.g., Chase Utley has never won a Gold Glove, Adam Everett never won a Gold Glove).
If you mean what Shooty seems to suggest in #6, that fielders are worse than fielders of the past, I kind of get that sense, too. I think that's how Derek Jeter has managed to win 4 Gold Gloves, there's no Omar Vizquel or Mark Belanger or Ozzie Smith playing out there today, at least not with the reputation that those guys had.
I don't mean that fielders are worse, just that it seems there are fewer great defenders, whatever I mean by that. Maybe it's because players are bigger today and so less mobile? Teams aren't willing to carry the all-field, no-hit guys if they can help it? I don't know. It's just an impression I have.
That's what I meant too. Yeah, I share that assessment. I think it probably has to do with offensive levels. As you say, teams are less willing to carry all-field, no-hit guys. I wonder how much that cycles on itself, i.e., the extent to which the lack of elite defenders is part of WHY offensive levels are high. On the other hand, I also wonder how much of it is the emergence of new stats - back in the day, would we have just accepted that Torii Hunter was an elite defender because he keeps winning Gold Gloves and hence have viewed him as a "great defender"?
"If he hit better, he'd win a Gold Glove."
Gold Gloves are perhaps the most flawed, overrated award in sports.
The Fielding Bible does something. I think we had a thread on it. The thread was probably shorter than the Gold Glove ones because there's less to snark about.
He was phenomenal this year. Made a few errors, but got to everything. And he's been pretty good (to the naked eye) for at least two years.
This can pass the smell test. Both pitching staff were flyballers to the extreme with the same ?. 39.7 and 39.6%.
Franklin played 153 games and had 445 putouts, which indicates that if Jones played CF in those 153 games he would have roughly 382? That isn't reasonable considering Jones had 345 putouts in 35 less games. It seems very likely that Franklin is a better defender, but those +43 and +29 just aren't reasonable.
Probably not as rated, since it's hockey, but the NHL's Selke Award (best defensive forward) is about as bad.
Then Buerhle absolutely deserved his.
I hate it when pitchers throw over for no reason, but I love it when it's a play.
It's pretty much the only reason I miss Greg Smith in Oakland.
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