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Friday, March 30, 2007

Johnny Pesky, Mr. Red Sox, loses spot in dugout

Jeeees…Art Howe is dead and they allow him in the dugout.

Boston Red Sox icon Johnny Pesky will have to leave the dugout during games this season because of a major league rule that limits the number of coaches allowed in uniform.

Red Sox manager Terry Francona said the team was told by the commissioner’s officer it will enforce the rule that limits uniformed personnel in the dugout to players, managers, and six coaches. Francona said the Red Sox received a stern letter from baseball threatening substantial fines.

“They warned us so many times, I think they got tired of it,” he said Friday before the Boston’s exhibition game against the Philadelphia Phillies. “I’ve seen the letters in the past.”

Pesky took the news hard when Francona told him this week. “I sat down with him and talked with him about, and he was hurt,” Francona said. “I understand. But the rules are what they are.”

Repoz Posted: March 30, 2007 at 08:48 PM | 48 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. phredbird

Posted: March 30, 2007 at 08:59 PM (#2321089)

wow, i can see this raising serious hackles in r.s. nation. who could they dump and keep pesky? paging kevin.

2. Flynn Posted: March 30, 2007 at 09:06 PM (#2321095)

It's good baseball is really tackling the tough issues in the game, like steroids and Johnny Pesky's sartorial choices.

3. Maury Brown Posted: March 30, 2007 at 09:13 PM (#2321097)

It's good baseball is really tackling the tough issues in the game, like steroids and Johnny Pesky's sartorial choices.

(Putting on Red Sox Nation cap)... This really sucks. Anyone that's talked to Johnny knows how much it means to him. Grandfather in the damn rule. This is a different case that Dusty Baker's kid.

4. vortex of dissipation Posted: March 30, 2007 at 09:18 PM (#2321099)

Red Sox manager Terry Francona said the team was told by the commissioner’s officer it will enforce the rule that limits uniformed personnel in the dugout to players, managers, and six coaches.

Put the other coaches in the bullpen. That should cover it.

5. JMM Posted: March 30, 2007 at 09:32 PM (#2321107)

Red Sox manager Terry Francona said the team was told by the commissioner’s officer it will enforce the rule that limits uniformed personnel in the dugout to players, managers, and six coaches.

Make him a (ceremonial) batboy?

6. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: March 30, 2007 at 09:36 PM (#2321108)

You think the other teams would object if they grandfathered Pesky, Maury?

They'd at least expect equal treatment.

7. Joe Bivens, Schmoo from Massachoosetts Posted: March 30, 2007 at 09:37 PM (#2321110)

What if the Red Sox were the ones who asked MLB to send them a letter telling them not to let Pesky in the dugout? Having him in their is dangerous---to him.

8. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: March 30, 2007 at 09:44 PM (#2321116)

If none of the other teams complained, then what in the f*ck is the issue? I'd just like to know the name of the actual person who put this nasty little thing in motion, just so that we can all know what a real 21st century baseball spokesman looks like. This is just petty beyond belief.

9. NTNgod Posted: March 30, 2007 at 09:54 PM (#2321119)

and six coaches

- pitching coach
- hitting coach
- bench coach
- first base coach
- third base coach
- ???

Trainer isn't uniformed personnel, generally.

10. Dewey, Steven Wright Wannabe and Soupuss Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:02 PM (#2321123)

How, JRE? How many teams have octegenarians associated with the team they would like to keep in the dugout?

Does it have to be an octogenarian? I'm sure a lot of teams have old ex-players that the owner/manager/GM would like hanging around in the dugout. What makes Pesky special?

11. NTNgod Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:04 PM (#2321125)

The Red Sox website lists six coaches - but the sixth is the bullpen coach, who isn't going to be the dugout, which is what the rule covers.

Do the Red Sox have another uniformed coach in the dugout? If not, it seems possible that this might be a skillful use of PR by the Red Sox to get Pesky out of the dugout, but not take the heat for it.

12. Meatwad is on team keefe Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:05 PM (#2321126)

and if i recall correctly, bond's people arnt allowed in the dugout either so this is fair for them to do this

13. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past

Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:06 PM (#2321127)

Jeeees...Art Howe is dead and they allow him in the dugout.

This is it - Johnny couldn't produce a pulse or fog up a mirror anymore.

Perhaps the commisioner's office has a new employee who was formerly in the NFL (No Fun League) front office. Told there were no end zone celebrations to regulate, he went searching for someplace else to exert his inconsequential power.

14. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:27 PM (#2321137)

Why are we fixating on the dugout? That quote is from the article, not the rule itself. The rule most likely limits the total number of coaches who can be working once the game starts, regardless of where they're sitting. Same goes for the "sartorial choices" of said coaches. There are limits on training staff, and even interpreters.

15. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:28 PM (#2321138)

(hit post too soon)

So he can't skirt the rule by just changing into street clothes before the game starts.

16. JMM Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:34 PM (#2321140)

That's special and tradition is important in New England.

But not anywhere else....

17. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:40 PM (#2321143)

Trainer isn't uniformed personnel, generally.

Neither is Francona. He just wears that nightshirt.

18. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:47 PM (#2321147)

who could they dump and keep pesky?

Manny.

19. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:52 PM (#2321150)

Does it have to be an octogenarian? I'm sure a lot of teams have old ex-players that the owner/manager/GM would like hanging around in the dugout. What makes Pesky special?

If a lot of teams would like it, then where have they been? What makes Pesky special doesn't have anything specific to do with the Red Sox or his relationship with Williams or the importance New Englanders' place on tradition, but that he is one of the few (if only) guys in baseball who has maintained such a long, uniformed tradition with one club. I doubt anyone supporting Pesky's right to stay in the dugout would object if another club had someone in a similar position.

That being said, I wouldn't be shocked if NTN is right about the true impetus behind the decision.

20. JMM Posted: March 30, 2007 at 10:52 PM (#2321152)

9 and 14 are probably pretty close to what's really happening. Very few 87 year old men are spry enough to handle any foul balls rocketed straight at them, and the Sox could just be thinking that they don't want to be repsonsible for Pesky being seriously hurt just because they were too afraid to hurt his feelings a little but didn't want to be the bad guys publicly either.

21. NTNgod Posted: March 30, 2007 at 11:06 PM (#2321156)

Where is this rule? I can't seem to find it in the ones listed on MLB's website.

On a related note, it appears the Rockies got warned a few days ago for having too many coaches on the bench.

22. jim in providence Posted: March 30, 2007 at 11:21 PM (#2321163)

Dear Red Sox,

Please take the high road here. Accept and pay the fines, the obnoxiousness of the enforcement of the rule notwithstanding.

23. Halofan Posted: March 30, 2007 at 11:26 PM (#2321165)

I am with 9/14/28 ... This has John Henry written all over it...

24. JMM Posted: March 30, 2007 at 11:35 PM (#2321172)

25. jim in providence Posted: March 30, 2007 at 11:55 PM (#2321177)

Well, John Henry notwithstanding, it's not uncommon for elderly people to be in denial over the limitations on their bodies that didn't use to be there. Henry may be a jackass, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't be in Pesky's best interest to get the hell out of the dugout.

How would it be in Pesky's best interest? I could see it if he were suffering from dementia or the like, but if that were the case surely it wouldn't take several letters from the Commissioner's Office to get him out of the dugout.

26. Flynn Posted: March 30, 2007 at 11:58 PM (#2321180)

What if the Red Sox were the ones who asked MLB to send them a letter telling them not to let Pesky in the dugout? Having him in their is dangerous---to him.

It's not like Pesky's ever been hit by a ball and the guy's still in good shape - doesn't he hit fungoes out there? Hell, he's in better shape than Francona, who will probably be dead within 10 years considering his health issues.

I suppose it's possible the Red Sox are using MLB to force him out, but that's an astonishingly dickheadish move considering how often he's trotted out as a face of the franchise. MLB has certainly been this petty in the past.

27. JMM Posted: March 31, 2007 at 12:01 AM (#2321182)

How would it be in Pesky's best interest? I could see it if he were suffering from dementia or the like, but if that were the case surely it wouldn't take several letters from the Commissioner's Office to get him out of the dugout.

He may not be capable of physically moving out of the way when foul balls come too close to the dugout. One doesn't have to be suffering from dementia to be in denial.

28. Flynn Posted: March 31, 2007 at 12:04 AM (#2321184)

He may not be capable of physically moving out of the way when foul balls come too close to the dugout. One doesn't have to be suffering from dementia to be in denial.

Nobody is, given the right situation, otherwise most dugouts wouldn't have fences in front of them. I see no reason why he's more likely than anybody else to be hit, considering the number of overweight or arthritis-stricken or just old coaches in the bigs.

29. jim in providence Posted: March 31, 2007 at 12:12 AM (#2321188)

otherwise most dugouts wouldn't have fences in front of them.

Wasn't a special fence installed in front of the Yankees dugout after the Zimmer incident?

30. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: March 31, 2007 at 05:33 AM (#2321241)

How, JRE? How many teams have octogenarians associated with the team they would like to keep in the dugout?

The Mets have a very good pinch hitter.

31. Srul Itza At Home Posted: March 31, 2007 at 06:13 AM (#2321245)

The Mets have a very good pinch hitter.

That's the answer -- put Pesky on the active roster.

32. Robert Machemer Posted: March 31, 2007 at 06:15 AM (#2321247)

What if it were the Sox actually in the dugout -- Francona, the players, the other coaches -- who were the impetus behind his removal? There may well be many Sox fans who like/adore/revere Pesky, but few probably are as familiar with him as those men in the dugout are -- maybe he was great and personable 50/25/10/5 years ago, but no longer is? I mean, it's easy for me to say, "Hey, they should suck it up, and just deal with the man -- he's an institution!" but I don't have to spend the next six months with the guy.

I'm not saying that the Sox are behind it, nor am I saying Pesky should be removed. I'm saying that I don't think it's as easy as "He's an institution and should be allowed to stay." The only thing that jumps to mind when I think of Pesky from the last ten years is that he apparently loved Shea Hillenbrand as a son, going so far as to cry when the latter was traded. Make of that what you will.

33. Repoz

Posted: March 31, 2007 at 08:53 AM (#2321252)

What if it were the Sox actually in the dugout -- Francona, the players, the other coaches -- who were the impetus behind his removal?

Nah...Yaz retired in '83.

34. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: March 31, 2007 at 11:40 AM (#2321264)

What if it were the Sox actually in the dugout -- Francona, the players, the other coaches -- who were the impetus behind his removal?

And then they took Pesky to a secret underground lair, and in a darkened corner, in a steel cage, was his father whom he hasn't seen in years!

35. tfbg9 Posted: March 31, 2007 at 04:17 PM (#2321330)

"If none of the other teams complained, then what in the f*ck is the issue? I'd just like to know the name of the actual person who put this nasty little thing in motion"

Jeter.

36. Pasta-diving Jeter (jmac66) Posted: March 31, 2007 at 04:51 PM (#2321340)

he should wear women's clothes in the dugout and see how Keith Hernandez reacts

37. Robert Machemer Posted: March 31, 2007 at 05:04 PM (#2321343)

And then they took Pesky to a secret underground lair, and in a darkened corner, in a steel cage, was his father whom he hasn't seen in years!
I suppose that's possible, but I'd think my half of the suggestion was at least slightly more probable (if only just).

38. Mister High Standards Posted: March 31, 2007 at 05:23 PM (#2321347)

I love the BTTF consipricy folks... yeah I'm sure the redsox are behind the letter.

39. Argu!!!! SATAN!!!! (Sessile Fielder) Posted: March 31, 2007 at 05:50 PM (#2321357)

That's the answer -- put Pesky on the active roster.

If they really wanted to and had a spot open, they could add him to the 40-man and then put him on the 60-day DL. That would be pretty amusing.

40. Robert Machemer Posted: March 31, 2007 at 11:43 PM (#2321460)

I love the BTTF consipricy folks... yeah I'm sure the redsox are behind the letter.

*shrugs* I'm not saying it's the case. It's entirely possible that this sudden decision to enforce an already existing rule came from another team or from some stickler for rules in Selig's office. If you find those more likely, that's fine. They may well be considerably more likely. I just don't think it's impossible that Kevin Youkilis, say, finally got tired of hearing how he was no Shea Hillenbrand (or Frank Malzone or whatever) and so asked Francona if there was any way to shut the old guy up.

Are the players upset about this at all? None are quoted as being so in the article. Is it ridiculous to think that Johnny Pesky means a lot more to fans (who've followed the team for years) that to baseball players who spend a couple of years with a team and then move on? I dunno, maybe so. It seems to me that "being the anonymous bad guy" is exactly what Selig's office is for, given that when Duquette tried to get Pesky out of the dugout, it led to a huge anti-Duquette outcry.

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Johnny Pesky, Mr. Red Sox, loses spot in dugout

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