trading Alberto Callaspo for a 28 year old backup catcher with 13 ML ABs would go over VERRRRRRRRY well

The Royals have just never seemed to like Callaspo much. In '07, Callaspo hit 305/361/371. The Royals' response was to spend the winter mulling over acquiring Orlando Hudson, actually acquiring Willie Bloomquist, and threatening to start Bloomquist. They then had the even more brilliant idea of converting Mark Teahen to 2B. Finally, logic prevailed, Callaspo got the job, and proceeded to hit 300/356/457. I can't be too surprised that the Royals' response is to seek to trade Callaspo for a nobody catcher. (Although, oddly enough, a nobody who walks. What's gotten into Dayton?)

Another thing about Ellis is that his defense has been described 'average at best'.

let me pull some direct quotes from a postgame announcer for the Royals flagship about how walking in the minors doesn't mean much other than problems with aggression.

Also, Callaspo's defense wasn't good. But Getz is below average defensively. Betancourt (who Moore traded for) is the worst SS in baseball. Fields is awful.

Ellis is 28 (bad), hasn't proven himself to be good enough to even be a backup (bad), has a strong arm (good) against AAA runners (who run more and suck at SBs more than MLers), and should hit a lot worse than Callaspo (bad)

Dayton needs to be told that last place teams usually get rid of their worst players, not their best players.

Also, the photo of John Buck pouting on the ground in the link is hilarious.

Also, apparently Dayton's job involves helping the Dodgers make it through Frank McCourt's divorce

Watching Dayton Moore work is just painful.

Wait, wait, can WE trade a backup catcher for their 2b? That'd be so great, cuz we need a 2B and I'm pretty sure we could find another backup catcher before April.

Watching Dayton Moore work is just painful.

I reiterate an earlier statement that I could assemble a front office (say top five positions) soley from BBTF regular posters that would be better than multiple current MLB front offices.

Please, sing Molina!

Getz is below average defensively.

I don't think this is true. He's not going to win any gold gloves out there, but he's above-average.

One rumor to watch: A deal sending second baseman Alberto Callaspo to the Los Angeles Dodgers for catcher A.J. Ellis, a 28-year-old rookie who currently projects as a backup to Russell Martin following the anticipated free-agent departure of veteran Brad Ausmus.

I guess this is progress. In the past, Dayton would have just signed Brad Ausmus.

Didn't Olivo hit over 20 jacks?

Watching the Royals front office reminds me of working with the GM tax staff as a contractor. GM had decided one way to streamline operations and cut costs was "synchronization". One of the tangible results was having approximately 12 employees of supervisor level and above (including the Manager of Federal Taxation), standing around for an hour, watching who was using the copy machine and how. I calculated the cost to GM of that little project to be about $35,000.

When I asked one of the managers how that contributed to "synchronization", his reply was that they were going to "synchronize" the copy machine usage. It was clear to me that he had no clue what the word meant. (I pictured 100s of copy machines in a row, with indentically dressed secretaries making copies in unison, with the GM symphony orchestra playing in the background).

Someone must have told Dayton Moore that "defense is good", but hasn't told him yet what it means.

Didn't Olivo hit over 20 jacks?

From what I've heard / read, Olivo's bat can't even begin to make up for his glove. And his performance this past year (something like a .260 EqA) is the best that can be expected from him, & shouldn't be expected going forward.

Dayton knows Yorvit Torrealba is available, right?

From what I've heard / read, Olivo's bat can't even begin to make up for his glove. And his performance this past year (something like a .260 EqA) is the best that can be expected from him, & shouldn't be expected going forward.

I have no idea about Olivo's glove, but he does have a career 700 OPS, 781 in 2009. For a catcher, that's far from terrible.

It would seem KC has about 20 other holes that are far more glaring, e.g. every pitcher not named Greinke or Soria and ever position player not named Butler or Callaspo.

"Please, sing Molina!"

Waltzing Molina! Waaaaltzing Molina! Yooou'll come a-waltzing Moliiiina with meeeee!!!!

"I have no idea about Olivo's glove, but he does have a career 700 OPS, 781 in 2009. For a catcher, that's far from terrible."

Buck had a 104 OPS+ as his backup this year, too.

Free Brayan Pena?

Buck had a 104 OPS+ as his backup this year, too.

So Moore is looking to trade one of his 2 or 3 best position players from the 2009 team to get a career backup to replace the catching tandem that gave them above average production?

Outstanding! Why am I not a major league GM?

The Mets offer Ed Hearn for David Cone.

So Moore is looking to trade one of his 2 or 3 best position players from the 2009 team to get a career backup to replace the catching tandem that gave them above average production?

Well, to be fair, they've already declined Olivo's option for 2010, which was for an absolutely outrageous sum of $3.3M. After all, offensively league average catchers are readily available for sums much less than that.

It would seem KC has about 20 other holes that are far more glaring, e.g. every pitcher not named Greinke or Soria and ever position player not named Butler or Callaspo.

Well, improving the defense would help the pitchers, right?

Most studies of really bad teams conclude that they tend to be worse on the pitching+defense side of the ball than they are offensively (that's why James, for one, settled on a 52/48 defense/offense split when developing Win Shares), and IMO bad teams tend to improve more quickly by focusing on the defensive side of the ball first. So Moore's strategic approach isn't necessarily a bad thing - the question then becomes how well he executes it. Having seen Ellis catch, and without knowing much about Callaspo's D, I would NOT look at Callaspo for Ellis as being a particularly good way to execute a defense-first strategy.

-- MWE

"without knowing much about Callaspo's D"

By reputation, not great, but not horrible, either.

Well, improving the defense would help the pitchers, right?

Sure, but do we have any idea if Ellis is better defensively than Olivo? Much less better enough to offset the offensive difference (I know nothing about Ellis but I'm assuming a 28 year old catcher stuck in AAA can't hit, otherwise he wouldn't be stuck in AAA).

Wouldn't SS and OF be a better place to look for some gloves? Of course Moore thinks Yuniesky Betancourt is a good defensive SS, so who knows what's going on there.

(I know nothing about Ellis but I'm assuming a 28 year old catcher stuck in AAA can't hit, otherwise he wouldn't be stuck in AAA).

It's also possible that he just can't field. Tom Wilson was in the minors until he was 30, mostly because his defense was terrible. Either way, if a C is 28 and has yet to make the majors as even a regular backup, the odds are good that he's got a major hole in his game.

It's also possible that he just can't field.

That's true. I mistakenly gave Moore the benefit of the doubt for 10 seconds. Thanks for bringing me back to reality.

That would be a classic follow up to the Betancourt disaster, trade a good offensive 2B for a "defensive catcher" who can't field.

Ellis has a decent defensive rep and is good enough, IMO, to be a below average backup. His major hole is power ... he's a poor man's Geno Petralli.

On Callaspo's D: not to be simplistic, but... his range is okay, but he's error-prone, right? (working from memory) That sounds like a guy Moore wouldn't cater to...

That said, I don't believe this rumor.

On Callaspo's D: not to be simplistic, but... his range is okay, but he's error-prone, right? (working from memory) That sounds like a guy Moore wouldn't cater to...

UZR has him as below average, but not terrible (-3/150, but in only 190 GS, so SSS), -6 in 2009. Range and errors both negative.

However, he seems solidly above average with the bat and is only 26. Strange player to look to move if you're KC.

Sure, but do we have any idea if Ellis is better defensively than Olivo?

I haven't see Olivo. I have seen Ellis. He wouldn't be in the upper echelon of defensive Cs in the majors. He throws well, but that's about it.

-- MWE

Olivo's not that different - boxes the ball a bit more than Ellis (witness the PB/WP issue).

He wouldn't be in the upper echelon of defensive Cs in the majors.
Would anyone claim this? (Maybe Moore - I dunno.)

Olivo has a very good arm as well, IIRC. When he first came up, I thought Olivo would become an very good all-around catcher - a sort of poor man's Ivan Rodriguez. He had the tools for it.

He hasn't developed as much as I expected, but he's still a decent enough player. I wouldn't mind if the White Sox picked him up to be the backup this year.

Would anyone claim this? (Maybe Moore - I dunno.)

I don't know. But before you go and trade one of your better players for a defensive catcher, you'd better be damn sure he's an elite defensive catcher.

But before you go and trade one of your better players for a defensive catcher, you'd better be damn sure he's an elite defensive catcher.
Sure. Of course, no one here is claiming that this is a good idea (or, in at least my case, that this is plausible). Ellis has never really had much trade value in the past - I don't see why he would now [short of Callaspo having pulled a Jeremy Giambi type deal, which is a different thing].

Well, to be fair, they've already declined Olivo's option for 2010, which was for an absolutely outrageous sum of $3.3M. After all, offensively league average catchers are readily available for sums much less than that.

Which catchers who are that good offensively are signed for less than 1 yr/$3.3M?

He wouldn't be in the upper echelon of defensive Cs in the majors.
Would anyone claim this?

I think he would have to be, given what he's likely to hit in the majors, to justify giving up Callaspo for him.

EDIT: Or what Snapper said.

-- MWE

Which catchers who are that good offensively are signed for less than 1 yr/$3.3M?

I think that was sarcasm.

Well, to be fair, they've already declined Olivo's option for 2010, which was for an absolutely outrageous sum of $3.3M. After all, offensively league average catchers are readily available for sums much less than that.

Which catchers who are that good offensively are signed for less than 1 yr/$3.3M?

You might want to click here.

Woops. My detector is off today.

snapper/Mike: To be clear, I don't disagree with you.

So, with Sabean bringing the Giants back to respectability and Pittsburgh recent improvements, is KC officially the laughingstock front office/franchise of MLB?

is KC officially the laughingstock front office/franchise of MLB?

At the moment they are.

Based on the bumblings of this season, it looks like Toronto might be trying to take a run at the title.

is KC officially the laughingstock front office/franchise of MLB?
Unquestionably. There's very little that they do well / having going for them.

Based on the bumblings of this season, it looks like Toronto might be trying to take a run at the title.

Well, maybe, but I do think the Rios/Halladay decisions were probably the right ones, as bad as the PR for Rios was.

If they choose to cut payroll drastically, I may agree with you. But, they still have tons more talent than KC: Halladay, Hill, Lind, Snider, Romero, a bunch of average SPs and good RPs, etc.

They then had the even more brilliant idea of converting Mark Teahen to 2B. Finally, logic prevailed, Callaspo got the job, and proceeded to hit 300/356/457.

To quibble with #2... logic didn't prevail, Alex Gordon got hurt. The Royals don't like Callaspo, he's a good percentage player, walks a lot, and runs the bases really well. He doesn't fit their organizational philosophy at all.

Callaspo doesn't really walk a lot, it just seems like he does in comparison to his free-swinging teammates. He hardly strikes out - he's a poor man's Placido Polanco at the plate. Defensively, he's a poor man's Mark Bellhorn.

At this point, the Royals best bet is probably going with Brayan Pena and finding some minor league FA/Rule 5 catcher who is great with the glove, but not so much with the bat. I wouldn't trade players of actual value like Callaspo to fill that need though. HEED THE WARNING OF ED HEARN!!

Fun stat of the day:

2009 Royals catchers: .270/.310/.504 31 HR 99 RBI
2009 Royals DHs: .209/.281/.374 24 HR 84 RBI

Yes, the Royals are the laughingstock of baseball. The children are right to laugh at you Dayton.

2009 Royals catchers: .270/.310/.504 31 HR 99 RBI

Yeah that clearly needed upgrading. Wouldn't want to spend $6M to get that production at C.

2009 Royals DHs: .209/.281/.374 24 HR 84 RBI

How bad is it if take Butler's ABs out?

The children are right to laugh at you Dayton.

They're past laughing. Now they've moved on to throwing rocks.

Now they've moved on to throwing rocks.

Try bricks instead, more consistent flight path due to uniform dimensions.

No kidding, career ISO-OB of .055 for Callaspo. For whatever reason I did think it was at least half again as much as that. Is he at least a good baserunner, or am I just a know-nothing today? I should go write a sports journalism column.

How bad is it if take Butler's ABs out?

A bit worse. Butler only had 11 games there. Olivo hit .294/.342/.735 in 11 games at DH. Its mostly Mike Jacobs sucking though, although he was helped by the oddity that John Buck and Brayan Pena (combined 91 PAs at DH) were terrific offensively at catcher, and just absolutely horrid at DH (Pena .472 OPS, Buck .235)


Yeah that clearly needed upgrading. Wouldn't want to spend $6M to get that production at C.

In fairness to Dayton, I don't think anyone thinks that is sustainable. Olivo is certainly going to regress quite a bit - he's never slugged over .450 before, and his .278 career OBA is a killer. And he's terrible defensively. Buck posted the best rate stats of his career, but also missed a lot of playing time and I'm not sure he really had a career year - more likely just a good stretch and a fluctuation with small sample size.

Is he at least a good baserunner, or am I just a know-nothing today?

Callaspo is an okay baserunner, although a terrible basestealer. Seems to have decent speed and isn't a total knucklehead on the basepaths like his teammates. I also think he could learn to play outfield and become a useful utility player.

Is he at least a good baserunner...?

Callaspo looks like he should be able to run, but no. He has zero skills beyond hitting for average. Can't run, lousy range at second, throws OK I guess, power is questionable although he did hit 11 homers this year.

No kidding, career ISO-OB of .055 for Callaspo. For whatever reason I did think it was at least half again as much as that. Is he at least a good baserunner, or am I just a know-nothing today? I should go write a sports journalism column.

Pardon? What is ISO-OB?

His career ISO is 116, 156 in 2009, which is far from terrible for a 2B. 41 2B, 8 3B and 11 HR is a decent amount of power.

also love the people hyping Ellis' bat and overlooking that he plays half his games in freaking Albuquerque.

He doesn't fit their organizational philosophy at all.

The Royals have an organizational philosophy?

What is it, nihilism?

What is it, nihilism?

It seems more like anarcho-syndicalism to me.

The Royals have an organizational philosophy?

Trading guys who aren't all that great for guys who are worse appears to be a key component of The Process.

How bad is it if take Butler's ABs out?

I know AG#1F answered this ably above but Butler didn't DH much last year because Mike Jacobs apparently surprised the Royals with his inability to play first base to the degree that Butler was deemed a better defensive option after the first week of games.