Berroa needs to go to Omaha and learn how to play catcher. He's got the range for it; the move could easily prolong his career ala Jamie Quirk.

<url=http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/Tony-Pena.shtml>Baseball Cube stats for Tony Pena Jr.</url>

Pena's minor league stats aren't very thrilling. Is there something that doesn't show up there? Unless he's a fantastic glove man, it's hard to see him as a long term solution.

Not to toot my own horn (just kidding; I am here with full intention of tooting my own horn), comment number thirteen.

Tony Pena Jr.
253/285/335 - 620 OPS in 6 minor league seasons.

Angel Berroa
264/305/386 - 691 OPS in 6 major league seasons.

How good was that glove again?

Tony Pena Jr.
253/285/335 - 620 OPS in 6 minor league seasons.

Angel Berroa
264/305/386 - 691 OPS in 6 major league seasons.

How good was that glove again?

he keeps getting better and better offensively.

Boy, he sure does! Last year, he made it up to a career high 671 OPS!

At AAA, no less!

Go, Royals!

From all indications, Pena's glove is pretty good. So are his legs. So is his salary. What's not good about him? His bat and his minor league option status. He's not a bad guy to have in your organization. He's useful as a defensive replacement or pinch runner. Or as a shortstop to a team with Angel Berroa.

i'd give teahen or gordon a chance to see if they could handle ss...especially with some flashy leather to back them up....

Everybody is always so negative here. The Royals clearly needed an upgrade at shortstop, and they weren't going to get anybody who even approaches star status. But they were able to get a guy who can do a few things well (as opposed to the incumbent who does nothing well) at a pretty low price. Why not concentrate on what Pena can do and try to build off that?

You know, I've been really impressed with John Schuerholz over the last several months. I was afraid he would overreact to losing the division in 2006 and make a bunch of short-sighted moves trying to get back to the playoffs in 2007, but he's been totally solid on almost every move. The Soriano trade was a steal, of course, I liked the Lillibridge/Gonzales acquisitions more than most, he got Craig Wilson at a bargain price, he signed Brian McCann to a long-term deal which is very favorable for the team, he's giving Kelly Johnson a legitimate chance at second base despite the fact that he's new to the position, and he got a live arm with upside for minor league filler he would have lost in a week.

and he got a live arm with upside for minor league filler he would have lost in a week.

Can a guy in the early rehab stage of Tommy John surgery really be classified as having a live arm? I do agree there's some hope in Cordier, but that injury history doesn't look good. Pena's not good, but he's better than Berroa.

Just like I’m competing for a job at third base.

Hey wait, I thought they had that Gordon guy at thi... oh. Right. I get it.

Why not just trade Greinke for Anderson Hernandez?

[Putting on my best Repoz face...]

Hey wait, I thought they had that Gordon guy at thi... oh. Right. I get it.

No, it's because I don't photograph well in the rule of thirds!

...I've sullied the good name of Repoz, haven't I?

Just wondering about Pena's birthday. Article says he turned 25 today, but according to The Baseball Prospect Book 2007, he turned 26 yesterday. Anybody have a Braves media guide or something? (I know, that's a strange question to get from a supposed professional baseball writer, but at least I can admit my ignorance...) -rob

Why not just trade Greinke for Anderson Hernandez?

OFF, as a Met fan, haven't you had enough "Milledge for junk" jokes/proposals to know how annoying they can be?

Comments also at Royal Ingenuity (no, you're selfish), Royals Authority, Royals Review, MLB Trade Rumors, Chop-n-Change.
---
[Hat tip to Strike Two.]

But they were able to get a guy who can do a few things well (as opposed to the incumbent who does nothing well) at a pretty low price. Why not concentrate on what Pena can do and try to build off that?

I'm inclined agree. Pena's not much, but he does represent an improvement over Berroa on defense. I'm not quite sure what to expect out of Pena offensively, but there's at least the possibility that he can match what Berroa would do.

Is Cordier anything special? Assuming not, I think the Royals did okay here.

I like this move for the Royals. TP Jr flashes some serious leather. He is everything Alex Gonzalez is supposed to be. Mark Redman would probably have shaved a run of his ERA last year with TP behind him. If Gordon is a good glove too, that gives the Royals a real solid infield. Problem is that their pitchers, the way I eyeball it, are mainly flyball pitchers.

Atleast his father can hook TP Jr up with some MILFs in KC

Rob, everything I've seen indicates that Pena turned 26 yesterday. I think that's just a typo in the article.

The Royals have Andres Blanco and Angel Sanchez. What does Pena bring to the team that the other two don't (besides more candles on his birthday cake)?

The Royals have Andres Blanco and Angel Sanchez. What does Pena bring to the team that the other two don't (besides more candles on his birthday cake)?

Name, PECOTA | Spring training AVG | Age
Andres Blanco, .254/.300/.324 | .281 (32 ABs) | Age 23
Angel Sanchez, .261/.301/.330 | .400 (5 ABs) | Age 23
Tony Pena, .247/.283/.341 | .324 (37 ABs) | Age 26

I think their offense is pretty terrible, across the board (+10/15 SLG, -20 OBP for Pena), and I doubt Pena's spring numbers played much into this (although they may have held some sway). The defense is obviously the key.

I remember seeing Blanco one game when he made some phenomenal plays, but of course I've also seen Angel Berroa make some phenomenal plays too. But I remember hearing about Blanco's defense getting sloppy at Triple-A -- is that true? I also don't remember seeing or hearing anything special about Sanchez's defense. Can anyone weigh in on the defense here?

It may actually involve Sanchez/Blanco being given shots at the MLB level but not doing much with it. Dayton Moore doesn't seem very patient with failure at the MLB level.

BP 2007 isn't impressed with Pena's glove. Any other defensive metrics that disagree?

The Royals have Andres Blanco and Angel Sanchez. What does Pena bring to the team that the other two don't (besides more candles on his birthday cake)?

Pena's dad was an MLB player. Moore clearly got him to be the team's PED source. Octavio needs to get a few MPH back on his fastball, and whoever got Teahen on the program last supper obviously moved to another organization.

Pena's dad was an MLB player. Moore clearly got him to be the team's PED source. Octavio needs to get a few MPH back on his fastball, and whoever got Teahen on the program last supper obviously moved to another organization.

That's just crazy enough to work!

Sanchez hasn't played AAA yet; the days are hopefully gone when middling prospects skip a level because the Royals have a need to fill. Not much difference between the three other than Pena being 3 years older and supposedly with a lot more baseball savvy than Sanchez and Blanco.

From BA:
Matt Meyers: This just in, the Royals traded Erik Cordier to the Braves for Tony Pena Jr. I just don't get this trade at all from a Royals perspective. I know they want an alternative to Berroa at shortstop, but Pena is as fringy as they come. Cordier had a knee injury earlier in his career and is coming off TJ, but he has as much upside as any pitcher in their system with the exception of Hochever. He has touched 98 mph when healthy and a good changeup. The Royals need to keep players with any semblance of upside and Cordier has upside. The Braves had no use for Pena and got something of value, even if it might be damaged, for him. Great trade for them.

and whoever got Teahen on the program last supper

You know, I'm not sure I want any of my guys on the last supper program, unless there's some reason to think that they'd be back in three days.

* Just to be explicit (Shibal alluded to this), when BA said Cordier is coming off TJ surgery - they mean he'll miss '07.
* I think he's got a few fans at BA - I think Callis tabbed him in one of his mock drafts and, even with the TJ, BA still ranked him 15th (I think) in their prospect list this offseason.
* I've seen plenty of Pena, who is a plus fielder right now at the big league level. Obviously, he can't hit at all.
* It's been said before (and more eloquently) but - ignore BA's defensive measures - they're not very good.

Horrible trade for KC. As a Braves' fan, I'm wondering who else when can foster on Dayton at this point...

You know, I'm not sure I want any of my guys on the last supper program, unless there's some reason to think that they'd be back in three days.

SO DARK THE TEA OF HEN

District Attorney: is that quote from the DiMaggio code?

I read on the Scout message board (but haven't checked) that Cordier has to go on the 40 man roster as soon as he's back from Tommy John surgery or else be exposed to the Rule 5 draft.

I'm not that worried by the price the Royals paid for Pena, but I am a little worried that they're so happy with replacement level at the position. Out of 20 trade candidates, the sub-650 OPS guy is the guy you go out and get?

It looks a lot like Moore had a mental model of the results he'd like to get out of Berroa this year. Then when it looked like Berroa wouldn't reach that level, he went out and got a guy who projects to produce exactly that (low) initial line Moore was hoping for, and who was available for a token price. He didn't go out and get a shortstop who projects to have a good year, even though that's the single position at which it's easiest to improve the Royals by multiple wins.

Retarded trade for the Royals. Pena brings the exact same skill set as Andres Blanco, except with a few more sage years of existing on earth. Cordier was judged to have the "Best Fastball" in the organization by Baseball America. He's had a ton of injuries, but is still very young and has potential. Pena probably would have been let go completely next week, and there are other guys that are free that can do what he does. And like I said, we had a guy in-house that does what he can do.

If you are going to get a shortstop and use a promising pitcher to get it, get one better than Tony Pena Jr. If you're going to trade for Tony Pena Jr, don't give up a pitcher, especially one with potential like Erik Cordier. Just a baffling move by Dayton Moore.

The only upside is that this trade, as bad as it is, probably won't matter much, and in the big picture, this probably means the end of the Angel Berroa Era.

I read on the Scout message board (but haven't checked) that Cordier has to go on the 40 man roster as soon as he's back from Tommy John surgery or else be exposed to the Rule 5 draft.


I'm pretty sure that's not true. He was drafted in 2004 out of high school.

Looks like he's exposed to the Rule 5 draft after 2008, not 2007.

Cordier was judged to have the "Best Fastball" in the organization by Baseball America.

Isn't having the best fastball in the KC organization kind of like having the largest penis at a WNBA game?

Baseball Prospectus's projection for Cordier...not too impressive.
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/CORDIER19860225A.php#diagnostics

BPs projections of a 20 year old live arm with a statistical record consisting of a handful of A-ball games are meaningless

"* It's been said before (and more eloquently) but - ignore BA's defensive measures - they're not very good."

BPs you mean?
I agree. Their major league D system doesnt seem to make sense and i have little faith in any statistical measurement of minor league D (data is sketchy plus theres all sorts of complicating factors), much less BPs MINOR LEAGUE D #s

BPs projections of a 20 year old live arm with a statistical record consisting of a handful of A-ball games are meaningless

Absolutely. And so are any claims that Cordier has a "live arm" when he just had Tommy John surgery 3 months ago. The guy has thrown 86 innings since 2004, and will be missing yet another season due to injury. Dealing him isn't 'retarded'; it is simply irrelevant.

Absolutely. And so are any claims that Cordier has a "live arm" when he just had Tommy John surgery 3 months ago. The guy has thrown 86 innings since 2004, and will be missing yet another season due to injury. Dealing him isn't 'retarded'; it is simply irrelevant.

Exactly. And in 2008, he'll be a 22-year-old A-ball pitcher rehabbing a major injury who will be rule 5 eligible at the end of the season. And in A-ball in 2006, he only K'd 23 in 36 innings which isn't exactly impressive. For his career, it's 64 in 87 IP.

Who knows, he could bust out, but if a GM hesitates for more than a second to trade somebody like this for a player he wants, he's not much of a GM.

Now whether Moore should want Pena is a separate question. I assume they think Pena's defense is outstanding -- someone earlier alluded to Alex Gonzalez. If he is +10 defensively, then he's almost certainly a better option right now than the Royals had and one of the better (maybe best) options available on the market right now.

I'm not that worried by the price the Royals paid for Pena, but I am a little worried that they're so happy with replacement level at the position. Out of 20 trade candidates, the sub-650 OPS guy is the guy you go out and get?

Who are these other above-replacement SS who are more easily available? Remember, this is a sub-650 OPS guy with, reportedly, a great glove and good baserunning. Maybe you'd prefer John McDonald, who's 32 and has a 590 career OPS? And are you sure he'd cost less than Cordier?

This may come as a shock to folks, but there were only 29 SS in MLB with 200+ PA in 2006 who topped a 620 OPS. Of those, Juan Castro (621 OPS) and Craig Counsell (691) might have been available. Drop it down to 100 and you get 37, though most of the added guys are really 2B (Russ Adams, Alex Cora, Geoff Blum, Aaron Miles). 3 teams had an OPS of 600 or below and 1 more below 650.

If Tony Pena Jr can pull off a 600 OPS in 450-500 PA with well above-average defense ... he's a starting quality ML SS. Yes, that's depressing, but the idea that more valuable SS are easily available is simply not true. That's not to deny that he's pretty easily replaceable. But teams simply aren't shopping around SS with 650+ OPS and average defense because there may not be a single team with 3 of them (unless one is going back to AAA for more seasoning).

So the questions are: how good is his defense really? How much better is it than Blanco's? And are we sure he can even crack a 550 OPS?

Anyway, this is a perfectly fine trade for both teams. Pena improves the Royals but not nearly enough that they could possibly "win" this trade in any meaningful sense. Cordier is a longshot with some upside and when trading someone like Pena that's about what you can get. The Braves have some chance of "winning" this trade in a meaningful sense but that's primarily due to the fact that Cordier is pretty much a complete unknown and chances are he will never contribute to the Braves.

Though this does highlight what blithering idiots the Ms were for signing Aurilia (for 1 year) and letting Carlos Guillen go for pretty much nothing, even if Guillen hadn't busted out yet. Was that Bavasi or the guy before Bavasi?

who gives a crap about winning trades - the braves made a smart move, because they were going to waive pena next week, and instead they get a guy who can throw 98 for him. let's just say i'm not concerned about his rule 5 eligibility - he'll have zero minor league track record whatsoever. no one in their right mind would take him.

Except maybe the Royals.

mm1f: Yes, bp - thanks.

Tommy John surgery, while hardly risk free, has a very good rate of recovery. Accordingly, I think it is very much fair to say that Cordier has a live arm at this point.

FWIW, I'd rate Pena's defense ahead of Blanco's - both by stats and my own impressions from watching them play.

...there were only 29 SS in MLB with 200+ PA in 2006 who topped a 620 OPS.

There is a world of difference between a player having an OPS of 620 last year and their having projected to have an OPS at that level. To whit, DMB's official 2007 projection file lists 81 players with a primary position of shortstop - Pena's OPS ranks 66th (.612). Most of them probably aren't as good with the glove as Pena, but that's still doesn't make him the calibre of a big league regular.
As for better available replacements, there were loads of them a few months ago. Now - and cost significantly less than Cordier - Cody Ransom, Jerry Gil, Luis Olmedo - I could go on...

To whit, DMB's official 2007 projection file lists 81 players with a primary position of shortstop - Pena's OPS ranks 66th (.612). Most of them probably aren't as good with the glove as Pena, but that's still doesn't make him the calibre of a big league regular.

I don't disagree with your point about the difference between projection and performance, but it's not like Adam Everett or Juan Castro or Ronny Cedeno project to hit substantially better than 600. And a good bunch of the rest have options left and are stuck behind major-league regulars so going back to AAA or AA (i.e. Brandon Wood and Erick Aybar and BJ Upton and their lesser counterparts are not available). Add in defense and I'd be surprised if Pena's not at least 45th in that list. Guys with Pena's apparent defensive ability and who hit better than he does don't have a lot of trouble finding at least bench jobs. (Note, even with equal defense, 58 of those 65 guys who are better hitters than Pena would be kept by their teams as starters or backups. I'm also guessing one of those guys who projects as a better hitter than Pena is Berroa, so I think we can count him out. That would leave 5 guys better than Pena for Moore to choose from without giving up anything substantial.)

As to Ransom, Gil (who's walked less than 1 per 30 AB in his minor-league career), etc. vs. Pena (who's not much better than Gil when it comes to walks), it almost all comes down to defense. And Gil, who's only 24, is gonna cost you at least as much and probably more in trade than Pena.

It is a good point that Moore should have addressed this problem 5 months ago when there were more options available on the FA market -- nobody should be surprised that Berroa didn't turn it around.

the braves made a smart move, because they were going to waive pena next week, and instead they get a guy who can throw 98 for him.

Like I said, good move for both teams. The Braves got something for Pena -- not that this is an uncommon occurrence at this time of year -- and he might some day see the majors. The Royals gave up someone who will likely never make the majors to fill a current ML need. Both teams can be smart you know.

let's just say i'm not concerned about his rule 5 eligibility - he'll have zero minor league track record whatsoever. no one in their right mind would take him.

Probably not. Then again we're talking about a guy who's also probably couldn't possibly see the majors before 2010. He'll be rule 5 eligible after 2009 too. Heck, he should be eligible for minor-league FA not too long from now. And, oh yeah, he might well be available for the AAA or AA rule 5 drafts after 2008. Not that any of this matters much -- it's highly unlikely it will ever matter if the Braves lose him.

Cordier reportedly _threw_ 98. After TJ, despite its good recovery rate, he'll likely lose some. His minor-league track record is not impressive -- as I said, 64 K in 87 IP; K/BB under 2; GREAT HR rate -- and he also missed all of 2005. So that's two major injuries in 4 years. He simply doesn't have any real value as a prospect right now. He's a complete gamble. If you're in the Braves' position and will be making Pena available anyway, is that good return? Sure, why not, maybe you get lucky. If you're in the Royals' position and need a SS, do you think twice about trading this guy? Not really. If you've got a 21-year-old with a 92-mph fastball who's suffered his second major injury, maybe you offer him first. :-)

Having seen Pena a number of times in the minors, I'll say I was always impressed with his defense. And he's not just flashy, either - he's always in the right position.

His bat, on the other hand, reminded me of great shortstops of the past, like Frank Tavares...