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Tuesday, May 20, 2008

Klapisch: Some troubling times for Girardi

And then there’s this..."News item: Randolph versus SNY” (which leaves me with a disturbing image of a Randolph Mantooth/Count Benigno religio-cross-pollination kabob)

The Mets’ skipper went way overboard telling The Record’s Ian O’Connor on Sunday that he’s a victim of a well-orchestrated network conspiracy to make him look passive and indifferent. Randolph further hinted that race has been a motivation of his critics. If he wasn’t already in hot water with the Wilpon family, he could soon be. Doesn’t Randolph realize the SNY network is largely owned by Fred and Jeff Wilpon; by saying the network is his enemy, he is effectively accusing his bosses of sabotage.

What Randolph fails to understand is that it’s in the Wilpons’ best interests to have him succeed, since they’re the ones paying his salary. Besides, if ownership really wanted Randolph to go away, it wouldn’t need the help of a TV camera. All it would take is one conversation at Shea — which could last all of 30 seconds — and Randolph would be fired.

The real problem here is Randolph’s irrationality, not to mention the enormous chip on his shoulder. He sees the world through his own prism of persecution. It’s always someone else’s fault, the knife is always in his back, he’s always being wronged. Randolph should spend a little less time worrying about the cameras and newspapers and more time establishing meaningful relationships with his players. Jose Reyes would be a good place to start.

Repoz Posted: May 20, 2008 at 09:31 AM | 33 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralNY MetsNY Yankees

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   1. A Surfeit of Peaches Graham (SdeB) Posted: May 20, 2008 at 09:51 AM (#2787413)
An interesting argument: "Sure, the media are in a totally corrupt and incestuous relationship with the team they cover, but that makes their criticisms all the more trustworthy!"
   2. 1k5v3L Posted: May 20, 2008 at 09:55 AM (#2787424)
He sees the world through his own prism of persecution.
It's obvious Klapisch needs to walk a mile in Randolph's golden thong.
   3. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 20, 2008 at 09:56 AM (#2787425)
The excerpt is not what I expected given the title.
   4. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 20, 2008 at 09:57 AM (#2787429)
The excerpt is not what I expected given the title.

Never underestimate the evil that is Repoz.
   5. Toolsy McClutch Posted: May 20, 2008 at 10:22 AM (#2787462)
Refresh my memory though, if I'm not mistaken wasn't Willie being given a hard time because he hadn't been a head coach somewhere before. And handn't he refused, he felt like he knew all he had too, and that it would be a waste of time to be the primary coach somewhere in the minors?
   6. kevin Posted: May 20, 2008 at 10:36 AM (#2787478)
Sounds right to me, toolsy.

I remember when Joe Morgan first retired and his name was being tossed around as managerial timber, he was quoted as saying he didn't need minor league managerial experience either.

We can debate whether this was a good strategy or not. I suppose, if you don't have any confidence in your abilities, it would make sense since you wouldn't want to be "exposed" before you had a chance to grab the brass ring.
   7. Robert Machemer Posted: May 20, 2008 at 10:37 AM (#2787481)
I remember the old days when the Mets fans' thread-hijackers were polite enough to wait until the thread itself, as opposed to right after the Title line.
   8. Dr Love Posted: May 20, 2008 at 10:40 AM (#2787484)
The excerpt is not what I expected given the title.


Might as well get the Mets hijack out of the way in the beginning.
   9. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 20, 2008 at 10:59 AM (#2787492)
For some reason most managers (that were former players) in Football don't have to have "minor league experience".
   10. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: May 20, 2008 at 11:40 AM (#2787539)
Football apprenticeship exists, though. Just takes a different form.
   11. Doc Nabbit Posted: May 20, 2008 at 11:59 AM (#2787572)
I remember when Joe Morgan first retired and his name was being tossed around as managerial timber, he was quoted as saying he didn't need minor league managerial experience either.

Serious question - how many current MLB manager first managed in the minors? Or, among the really prominent ones in baseball history, who did and didn't?

Managed in minors:
Mike Scioscia
Ned Yost

Didn't manage in minors:
Ozzie Guillen
Joe Torre (I'm pretty sure)
Dusty Baker (ditto)

Among really prominent managers, I know George Stallings, Earl Weaver, Billy Southworth, and Dick Williams did. I think Connie Mack was in the AL back when it was the Western League.
   12. Justin T Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:00 PM (#2787574)
But Randolph did take the NFL apprenticeship route. He was in the dugout in the bigs, seeing how it all went down. It's not like he was going all Mike Schmidt and just wanted to sit on his ass at home and one day get a phone call asking him to come manage.
   13. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates) Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:04 PM (#2787580)
Frankly, this reads to me like a case of Klapisch getting even for some sort of slight from Willie Randolph. Just saying.
   14. Doc Nabbit Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:05 PM (#2787583)
Looking it up, I see Leyland, Piniella, Cox, and LaRussa were all minor league managers. So were Wedge, Hurdle & Gardenhire.

Girardi wasn't. Nor was Melvin. Lou Piniella apparently didn't, though there's a one year gap in his record.
   15. Justin T Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:20 PM (#2787598)
You've got Piniella in both camps there, Doc.
   16. Rich Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:27 PM (#2787606)
Randolph, having spent so much time at Torre's side, apparently picked up his sense of entitlement.
   17. Dr Love Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:36 PM (#2787620)
For some reason most managers (that were former players) in Football don't have to have "minor league experience".


You don't go straight to head coach though. You start as a position coach and work your way up.
   18. Karl from NY Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:37 PM (#2787621)
Didn't manage in minors:
Joe Torre (I'm pretty sure)


The 1977-1979 Mets might as well have been...
   19. IronChef Chris Wok Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:50 PM (#2787639)
I was talking about the Football where the ball is round and you play with mostly feet. You know, the kind that Americans suck at. Some of them work as coaches sure, but you don't hear about Marco Van basten managing the Ajax reserves or anything like that.

Edit: Wow, REALLY bad example. Marco Van Basten was actually the assistant to the manager of the Ajax reserves.
   20. Gary Geiger Counter Posted: May 20, 2008 at 12:51 PM (#2787641)
You've got Piniella in both camps there, Doc.


I don't think he ever managed in the minors. FWIW, the SABR Minor League Database doesn't show any minor league stints, but that source has alot of incomplete info.
   21. Lake Placido Polanco (Crispix Attacks) Posted: May 20, 2008 at 01:00 PM (#2787649)
Terry Francona was a manager in the minors. In fact, he managed Michael Jordan.

Cecil Cooper managed the Brewers AAA team for a while.


Among really prominent managers, I know George Stallings, Earl Weaver, Billy Southworth, and Dick Williams did.


Back when the PCL was sort of an AAAAA league, it was common. Casey Stengel managed the Oakland Oaks. Lefty O'Doul managed the SF Seals. Pepper Martin and John McNamara managed the Sacramento Solons. Bob Lemon managed the Seattle Angels. (yes, the Seattle Angels)
   22. Doc Nabbit Posted: May 20, 2008 at 01:13 PM (#2787664)
You've got Piniella in both camps there, Doc.

D'OH! I meant Francona managed in the minors, as others have noted.

Back when the PCL was sort of an AAAAA league, it was common. Casey Stengel managed the Oakland Oaks. Lefty O'Doul managed the SF Seals. Pepper Martin and John McNamara managed the Sacramento Solons. Bob Lemon managed the Seattle Angels. (yes, the Seattle Angels)

Interesting, but Martin & O'Doul ain't really prominent MLB managers. Stengel certainly is, and McNamara had the length. I like Lemon, but there's at least 100 managers more important than him in baseball history.
   23. Edmundo(Erstwhile Master of Diagramming Sentences) Posted: May 20, 2008 at 01:16 PM (#2787668)
You know, the kind that Americans suck at deliberately, so no one will ask them to play the stupid game.
Fixed.
   24. billyshears Posted: May 20, 2008 at 01:44 PM (#2787711)
Refresh my memory though, if I'm not mistaken wasn't Willie being given a hard time because he hadn't been a head coach somewhere before. And handn't he refused, he felt like he knew all he had too, and that it would be a waste of time to be the primary coach somewhere in the minors?


That's the primary reason I was not too keen on the Mets hiring Randolph in the first place. There have also been reports that he turned down an offer to manage the Cincinnati Reds because the offered salary was too low. If you want a job of which there are only 30 in the world, you should be willing to do anything in your power to make your resume as sparkling as possible. There was nothing about Willie Randolph that made him a more qualified managerial candidate than about 100 other people. If he hadn't played the majority of his career in NY and if it wasn't assumed that he had been sprinkled with some magic Joe Torre pixie dust, Randolph probably never gets a job. Yet he feels that he is so deserving of an MLB managerial job that he refuses such an offer that he feels is beneath him and won't do anything to address concerns about gaps in his resume. Are we now supposed to be surprised that Randolph is unresponsive to criticism concerning his bullpen usage and handling of young players? I'd prefer my manager to be a bit more humble and a bit more hungry.
   25. Toolsy McClutch Posted: May 20, 2008 at 01:55 PM (#2787726)
I'd prefer my manager to be a bit more humble and a bit more hungry.


And have more experience being the primary day-to-day decision maker.

Especially working under Torre, I think that would be terrible experience for being the head coach yourself. I think JT is pretty much the focal point for both the media and the players, everyone else is really just dressing.

I'm not saying it's required, but I think it does have value. And I'd be concerned if someone felt it was beneath them. Though maybe I'm extrapolating too much there.
   26. Doc Nabbit Posted: May 20, 2008 at 02:24 PM (#2787790)
So far Girardi has been virtually invisible. One Yankee insider says the manager has been intimidated by the might of the team's corporate machine — in other words, Steinbrenner. The source said, "This isn't the way Joe managed [the Marlins]. It's like he's running scared now, trying to please everyone, always trying to say the right thing."


Oh, so there is info about Girardi in the column after all.
   27. Gary Geiger Counter Posted: May 20, 2008 at 02:33 PM (#2787822)
Did anyone ever do a Randolph in a box analysis?
   28. GregQ Posted: May 20, 2008 at 02:44 PM (#2787855)
Pardon my ignorance but what is a Randolph in the box analysis?
   29. Deadball Posted: May 20, 2008 at 02:55 PM (#2787891)
You know, the kind that Americans suck at


Not all of us... the half that have breasts are quite good internationally.
   30. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry Posted: May 20, 2008 at 03:01 PM (#2787907)
Not all of us... the half that have breasts are quite good internationally.


Let's leave David Wells out of this.
   31. Gary Geiger Counter Posted: May 20, 2008 at 03:14 PM (#2787936)
Pardon my ignorance but what is a Randolph in the box analysis?


A qualitiative look at a manger using questions about different aspects of his managing style like game level and roster level decision making. Bill James used it in an abstract or two as well as in his Guide To Managers.
   32. SoSH U at work Posted: May 21, 2008 at 10:24 AM (#2789346)
Football apprenticeship exists, though. Just takes a different form.


In Detroit, for instance, if the guy in the TV booth sounds like he's a fraction more intelligent than the remaining throughly incoherent ex-players on the air, they make him the general manager. And that's worked out swimmingly.
   33. Will Young Posted: May 21, 2008 at 10:29 AM (#2789353)
Billy Martin managed in Denver for the second half of 1968 when Calvin Griffith was testing him to see if he could handle the job.
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