Posada might not be able to play catcher consistently anymore. That's going to be a huge problem. Between him and Matsui, DH is going to be locked up, which means they'll probably have to pass on Giambi. Posada's bat is great for a C, but is less impressive at DH/1st.

One major league scout wondered out loud, “Who in that organization is going to be the one to make the move [to shift Jeter to another position]. Who has enough juice to do that?


more importantlier--where are you gonna move him TO? His bat, up until this year, was far more than adequate to make up for his defensive deficiencies. But if he can't play SS, and he can't hit forshit any more, where'r you gonna put him? Ketcher?

kinda reminds me of that brilliant idea a few years ago to move Knob-Kblock from 2B to LF

He can be centerfield!

I think Jeter's hitting may rebound to the point that he'd be a decent, say, leftfielder. But would he be better than Damon? I mean, he'd have a stronger arm, obviously, but otherwise probably not.

Could he play center? Can Damon? Because the bat to take out of that lineup has got to be Melky's, hasn't it? His numbers are declining for the third year in a row, and that age 22 season is starting to look less like a breakout campaign for a future very good major leaguer and more like a peak season for a player who reached his full abilities very early on (I think he could very well repeat that performance several times in his career, and maybe top it slightly, but I don't think he's going to have the classic trajectory of improvement to age 27 or so followed by a decline).

Funny timing for that range comment given Jeter's improved d this year. Unfortunately all other aging signs are pretty unforgiving for Jeter.

What does prOPS say about Melky?

Jeters ZR: .829, which is good for 12th in the Majors, 6th in the AL.

Jeter's RZR: .865, 3rd in the Majors, 2nd in the AL.

Jeter's RZR for the past four years are .777 .805 .792 .801. Those are terrible.

The .865 is probably a bit flukey. Especially when you consider that he is still only making about half as many plays out of his zone as good shortstops are...

“Who in that organization is going to be the one to make the move [to shift Jeter to another position]. Who has enough juice to do that?”

It's going to have to come from Hank. And who knows what he's going to choose to care about from one day to the next.

Who has enough juice to do that?”

Jason Giambi, for sure. And he's got parasites to boot.

Seems to me that Jeter to centerfield, replacing Melky, seems like the best solution. He's always been terrific on pop-ups and short fly balls, and his arm would be fine for a CF. I also think he can rebound as a hitter - we was being Jeter-like, .320 average, .350 OBP, (albeit w/o much power) until he took the fastball to his hand from the O's Cabrera about 6 weeks ago.

Now it gets tricky - dare the Yanks move Arod back to shortstop? This would be a double blow to Jeter's ego, but hey, he's the friggin' captain, and Mr. Yankee Baseball, so the team should come first.

If those two switches work out, how about Posado to 3rd base. He started out in the organization as a second baseman, so it's not COMPLETELY crazy, just risky.

The Yankees can keep Damon in left, where his OPS+ and range outweigh the deficiencies with his arm. and also retain both Matsui and Giambi, who've been quite productive - in fact, the Yankee's only winning streak this year ended when Matsui hurt his knee.

With Cano rebounding, working his way back to .300 (as well as being both steady and spectacular in the field this year), offense would not be a problem, even with Molina's backup-catcher bat in the lineup every day. Defense, on the other hand, could have some very some painful moments, but should be fun to watch.

In summary, you get upgrades in CF, SS, downgrades in 3B and C, and status quo everywhere else. Of course, there is still the PITCHING!

The .865 is probably a bit flukey.

I read that over the winter the Yankees front office convinced Jeter to actually pay attention to scouting reports and adjust his positioning accordingly, so maybe it isn't a fluke.

#11 sounds like the shuffling of deck chairs. Except for Cano and a gradually declining ARod (depending on how much Madonna takes out of him), the Yankees are old with no young talent to rejuvenate them.

They'll need to keep Giambi around as Keeper of the Golden Thong.

Posada to 3B sounds intriguing, although moving Rodriguez back to SS might be too difficult at this point. Over the past five years, Rodriguez has declined from a Gold Glove SS to a mediocre defensive 3B. At 33, it doesn't strike me as obvious that he could handle the transition back.

Giambi will be gone next year ($5M buyout on a $21M option), which opens up 1B for Posada. Matsui figures to remain at DH (signed thru 2009).

Furcal will be a FA this winter. Maybe look to sign him to play SS and move Jeter to the OF?

"#11 sounds like the shuffling of deck chairs. Except for Cano and a gradually declining ARod (depending on how much Madonna takes out of him), the Yankees are old with no young talent to rejuvenate them."

Completely true, but since there is no young talent, and all these guys are being paid a lot of money to play baseball, this would be a way to keep all the bats in the lineup, but still shake up the team, and perhaps maximize all the old talent.

The Jeter-to-CF idea is about half a decade past its expiration date. I can't think of a player moving to CF from an infield position for the first time at age 34; the closest analog to this, I think, is Robin Yount, and he moved to CF at age 29.

Anyway, I'm not ready to pronounce Jeter's bat dead after 350 PAs.

The ARod-to-SS idea is a few years out of date as well.

A Rod went from good to poor and is now good again as a 3B

I read that over the winter the Yankees front office convinced Jeter to actually pay attention to scouting reports and adjust his positioning accordingly, so maybe it isn't a fluke.

Dewan +/-, to his right/straight on/to his left:

06: -10/+1/-10 (-22 total; the totals don't add up because I'm not listing air outs)
07: -14/-6/-14 (-34 total)
08: -10/+4/+3 (-5 total)

Seems like he is shading further up the middle. Getting absolutely killed on balls to his right, though (which would make sense, of course).

Anybody know to spell Schadenfreude?

(-5 total)

So he's what, -3 or -4 runs at the half way point per Dewan, a measure that's traditionally the one that rates Jeter the lowest. It's too bad he picked this year to not hit for the first half of the season (although he's still hitting better than he did in the first half of '04).

I read that over the winter the Yankees front office convinced Jeter to actually pay attention to scouting reports and adjust his positioning accordingly, so maybe it isn't a fluke.

IF this is true, then the fact that it took the firing of Joe Torre to finally get him to pay attention to scouting reports and tighten up his game is staggering, and doesn't befit his designation of captain.

Except for Cano and a gradually declining ARod (depending on how much Madonna takes out of him), the Yankees are old with no young talent to rejuvenate them.

I guess people never tire of posting this, on the theory that at some point it will be true and they can point out how right they were. I remember hearing about it with Jeter and Williams in the Cano/A-Rod roles, then Soriano and Posada, then A-Rod and Jeter, and now it's Cano and A-Rod.

As I've said before, the Yankees will at some point hit a rough patch, but people--both here and elsewhere--acting like the team with the 11th best record in baseball is an indication that it's only a week or two before the 1990-91 Yankees are back is really something I could live without.

That's not the point, RB. The point is, the Yankees are paying their players like they are superstars, and they are not superstars. Jeter is not a superstar. Matsui is not a superstar. Now that Posada can't throw, he isn't a superstar. Mussina is not a superstar. Giambi, Abreu, Cano: not superstars.

The problem is there's a gigantic disconnect between how good these players really are and how good people perceive them to be.

I read that over the winter the Yankees front office convinced Jeter to actually pay attention to scouting reports and adjust his positioning accordingly, so maybe it isn't a fluke.

06: -10/+1/-10 (-22 total; the totals don't add up because I'm not listing air outs)
07: -14/-6/-14 (-34 total)
08: -10/+4/+3 (-5 total)

The problem is that if his improved defense is based upon him better "positioning" himself, I would expect his out of zone plays to go up, more than I would his RZR. If you are shading to one side of your zone, you have a better chance to get a ball out of your zone, but it can actually be harder to get to balls in your zone. I'm just not seeing that right now.

It looks like, from those numbers, he corrected whatever problem he had going to his left without creating a hole in the other two slots. You could explain that away with his paying more attention to the scouting reports.

It looks like, from those numbers, he corrected whatever problem he had going to his left without creating a hole in the other two slots.

He is on pace for about -19 going to his right. I'd call that a hole.

Because the bat to take out of that lineup has got to be Melky's, hasn't it? His numbers are declining for the third year in a row, and that age 22 season is starting to look less like a breakout campaign for a future very good major leaguer and more like a peak season for a player who reached his full abilities very early on (I think he could very well repeat that performance several times in his career, and maybe top it slightly, but I don't think he's going to have the classic trajectory of improvement to age 27 or so followed by a decline).

Did Melky's premature promotion to the Majors hurt him? He never did well above A+ before he was rushed up at age 20.

With Cano rebounding, working his way back to .300

You do realize that is a .300 OBP he is working his way towards?

He is on pace for about -19 going to his right

I'm pretty sure that Dewan's numbers are a rate, so the "on pace" extrapolation is not appropriate.

I think Kevin's point was that Jeter has improved going to the left without proportionally worsening his performance going to the right.

I'm pretty sure that Dewan's numbers are a rate, so the "on pace" extrapolation is not appropriate.

This is incorrect. That's 10 plays worse to his left than an average fielder so far, and you can extrapolate it over the whole season to compare it to previous years.

more importantlier--where are you gonna move him TO? His bat, up until this year, was far more than adequate to make up for his defensive deficiencies. But if he can't play SS, and he can't hit forshit any more, where'r you gonna put him? Ketcher?

kinda reminds me of that brilliant idea a few years ago to move Knob-Kblock from 2B to LF

Johnny Ray had the same thing happen-couldn't field in the middle infield anymore, had to move down the defensive spectrum, where he couldn't hit well enough at his new position to stick. That kind of positional switch in the mid-30's is usually a death knell for the player in question. The floor coming up to smack them in the ass is just as much a factor as the decline in their ceiling (peak).

That's not the point, RB. The point is, the Yankees are paying their players like they are superstars, and they are not superstars. Jeter is not a superstar. Matsui is not a superstar. Now that Posada can't throw, he isn't a superstar. Mussina is not a superstar. Giambi, Abreu, Cano: not superstars.

But that ends up exactly proving my point. Of all the guys you listed, only four of them (Jeter, Matsui, Posada and Cano) are signed past this year. And you don't need superstars at every position. Posada and Cano (when he comes around, which he is/will) are more than adequate at their position.

The Yankees are by any means a lock to remain a competitive team--no one is--but there's also no reason to think that their formula of high payroll and decent smarts will stop being effective any time in the near future. Comments like #13 imply, basically, that the Yankees are in the same boat as the Mets which I just don't see.

I can't think of a player moving to CF from an infield position for the first time at age 34; the closest analog to this, I think, is Robin Yount, and he moved to CF at age 29.

Craig Biggio moved from 2d base to CF in 2003 at age 36. He split time between CF and LF in 2004 at age 37. Of course, he wasn't the best fielder in the world at those positions. (The conversion was a bit late; in his prime, Biggio would have been an excellent defensive CFer.)

I can see a lot of similarities between the problems faced by the Astros with Biggio in his later years and the Jeter issues for the Yankees. Both players are the "face of the franchise" and have a disproportionate influence over the franchise's decisions.

Signing Furcal or somebody and then moving Jeter to the outfield seems feasible. Doing it mid-season with no real replacement (A-Rod seems fanciful, and Posada to 3B even more so) is not going to happen (nor should it).

Although there are longer term issues that need to be addressed at some point, but for Wang's injury and Posada's lingering shoulder problems, there would be no need for this column.

Johnny Ray had the same thing happen-couldn't field in the middle infield anymore, had to move down the defensive spectrum, where he couldn't hit well enough at his new position to stick.

Poor old Johnny Ray.

/obligatory

I can see a lot of similarities between the problems faced by the Astros with Biggio in his later years and the Jeter issues for the Yankees. Both players are the "face of the franchise" and have a disproportionate influence over the franchise's decisions.

Will the Red Sox have the same problem with Manny? Or is he not nearly the icon in Boston that Jeter is in NY?

Manny can always DH and he is a considerably better offensive player than Jeter (career OPS+ 153 v. 121), so there are greater degrees of freedom with Manny.

That's all true but I'm talking about his status with the team as perceived by fans and writers.

As pointed out earlier, the question of the moment isn't really around Jeter's defense but around his offense. If this is his new level of production (and obviously that's far from certain though the timing is right and there are lots of "leading indicators"), then there really is no good position to move Jeter to. He's producing, offensively, like an average 2B or CF. It would be strange to bench Cano in favor of Jeter (Cano to SS??) or trade him during the offseason. There's no reason to think that Jeter would be any better than average at 2B or CF.

I don't mean they shouldn't move him. Seeing if he can adapt to CF is probably their best long-term bet. But there's little reason to think a 35-37 year-old Jeter is going to be worth much of anything in CF.

Will the Red Sox have the same problem with Manny? Or is he not nearly the icon in Boston that Jeter is in NY?

People in Boston love Manny, but he doesn't have the kind of "hero" status that Jeter has in New York. In New York, Jeter is not only viewed as great, but also, in some sense, right. So if he says he shouldn't move to a different position, I think a lot of Yankee fans would take his side. Most Boston fans probably already think Manny should be the DH.

And he would be, if Ortiz wasn't around (as at the moment, for instance). In the meantime, as noted above, Manny hits well enough to very badly field the least important defensive position on the diamond and be productive overall. So I don't foresee any kind of future reckoning.

Johnny Ray had the same thing happen-couldn't field in the middle infield anymore, had to move down the defensive spectrum, where he couldn't hit well enough at his new position to stick. That kind of positional switch in the mid-30's is usually a death knell for the player in questioncue for the Orioles to sign him.

Hopefully, that's no longer true in the MacPhail era, but they had a habit of sticking mediocre middle infielders in the OF for quite a while.

Someone noted Jeter's loss of power and while I agree 350 PAs isn't enough to judge, still the trend ain't good.

Last 5 year's ISO - 179,141,140,130,105.

Toss in the declining W rate and that looks like a normal aging progression to me, not unexpected for a 34 yo, even the king of NY.

Craig Biggio moved from 2d base to CF in 2003 at age 36. He split time between CF and LF in 2004 at age 37. Of course, he wasn't the best fielder in the world at those positions. (The conversion was a bit late; in his prime, Biggio would have been an excellent defensive CFer.)

Good call; I'd forgotten about Biggio's move to center.

Of course, Biggio had already shown once that he could handle a radical change in position, having moved from C to 2B early in his career -- so he had a special talent for being able to do that; still, the point is well taken.

(Scanning Biggio's b-r page... he'd played some games in the OF and CF early in his career as well; so the position wasn't completely new to him.)

Just so I'm clear on all the facets of these position changes: Possada's arm is shot and he can't throw enough to remain at C so the solution is to put him at 3B?

meh - wake me up when there is an E next to their name on the standings

Just so I'm clear on this: Possada's arm is shot and he can't throw enough to remain at C so the solution is to put him at 3B?

Thank you! Posada hasn't played a single game at third base in the big leagues, and hasn't played the position at all since 1993 (when he played one minor league game there and, hello, committed three errors in 11 chances). But nevermind, we were talking about how the Yankees would be just fine, weren't we? Please, carry on.

when he played one minor league game there and, hello, committed three errors in 11 chances

11 chances in 1 game for the 3B? Bunt city? Dave Williams pitching?

If you saw Jorge Posada stationed at third base, you'd drop a bunt his way, too.