Baseball for the Thinking Fan

Login | Register | Feedback

btf_logo
You are here > Home > Baseball Newsstand > Baseball Primer Newsblog > Discussion
Baseball Primer Newsblog
— The Best News Links from the Baseball Newsstand

Tuesday, October 07, 2008

Kriegel: Rays debunking the myth of postseason experience

HELP!  My Triumphator CRN1 is stuck in my pocket!

Not long after crossing the plate Monday night, Jason Bay — 5-for-14 with five RBIs in the ALDS — was asked how he had ever gotten himself ready for the series, what with the utter lack of postseason experience.

“I can’t prepare for it,” he said.

No one can. Being there before hasn’t helped A-Rod. I don’t care what the sabermetric geeks do with their calculators; the heroically clutch athlete — the one who elevates his game under pressure — is the foundation of all sportswriting. Therefore, I’m bound to insist that players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made. That’s the difference between an Alfonso Soriano and a B.J. Upton, who homered twice Monday afternoon, between a Francisco Rodriguez — whose record 62 regular-season saves didn’t stop him from taking a loss in Game 2 of the ALDS, and a Jonathan Papelbon, whose career postseason ERA remains 0.00.

Repoz Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:04 PM | 29 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralSabermetrics

Reader Comments and Retorts

Go to end of page

Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.

Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Halofan  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 01:27 PM (#2973573)
2002 Angels facing Yankees in ALDS had Kevin Appier with postseason experience while NY had over a hundred games of postseason experience. These guys have played thousands of games in their lives and a little more hype hardly affect their routine. Postseason experience means nothing.
   2. HGM  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 01:28 PM (#2973574)
So coherent on one hand with the whole "postseason experience isn't nearly as important as it's made out to be", and yet so off on the other hand with the whole "postseason players have it in their blood."
   3. Boots Day  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 01:36 PM (#2973587)
You'd think the Rockies would have debunked the myth of postseason experience last year. Or the 2006 Tigers. Or the 2003 Marlins. Or the 2002 Angels. Or the 2002 Giants...
   4. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F)  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 01:43 PM (#2973602)
They're too young to know they're supposed to be intimidated!!!
   5. Shredder  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 01:59 PM (#2973638)
Like I said in 2002, going into the playoffs, the Angels had one guy with post-season experience. After game one, they had 25. Argument over.
   6. tribefan  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:13 PM (#2973651)
I don’t care what the sabermetric geeks do with their calculators;

I thought all you nerds used spreadsheets not calculators.
   7. Mudpout  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:15 PM (#2973654)
K-Rod is a bizarre example to use. Back in 2002 he had one of the most memorable playoff runs by a reliever in recent memory. So what was it? Did he have "The Clutch(tm)" back then, and then lost it since? Did he just get too good at the regular season to do well in the postseason?

The thing I can't stand about this kind of argument is not whether some guys are clutch and some guys aren't, or the existence of clutch play, but it seems like players have to be one OR the other. So what is K-Rod? The guy who had a 5-1 record in the bullpen for the '02 Angels, or the guy who has given up 4 runs in 2 2/3 innings over his last two playoff series? Keith Foulke, in 2000 and 2003 combined, gave up 5 runs in 7.1 innings during the playoffs. Oddly, those aren't the two years he's remembered for.
   8. Elston Gunn  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:17 PM (#2973657)
I don’t care what the sabermetric geeks do with their calculators; the heroically clutch athlete — the one who elevates his game under pressure — is the foundation of all sportswriting. Therefore, I’m bound to insist that players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made.


I didn't RTFA, but is this a joke? It actually reads like pretty good satire i.e. my job depends on fairy tales existing, therefore, I will continue to pretend they exist.

Edit: I'm sure it's not a joke though.
   9. AROM  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 02:17 PM (#2973658)
I thought all of Tampa's success was due to their leader with the postseason experience - Cliff Floyd.
   10. Eric P.  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 03:17 PM (#2973720)
Therefore, I’m bound to insist that players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made.


All one needs to do is look at Vladdy Guerrero's series against Boston to realize what a load of bunk this is. Or was he reborn sometime between last October & this October and I missed it?
   11. salvomania  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 03:28 PM (#2973729)
There are two kinds of people: winners, and losers.

In crunch time, the winners seem to make the better ballplayers.
   12. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..)  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 03:39 PM (#2973739)
Isn't the claim susceptible to analysis by someone more facile with a geeky spreadsheet calculator than I?

Fred Given Player performs in a playoff game, relative to his career numbers to that point, better, the same, or worse. Factor in the number of playoff games FGP (and all players who have been in playoff games) has played to that point, and come up with a numerical description. It's a finite problem. There's nothing unsolvable about it unless you're a sportswriter.
   13. Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 03:49 PM (#2973746)
I was watching the UNC-Miami football game a few weeks back, and Miami had one last drive to win the game. Their offensive skill players were very young, and all from high schools with exceptionally successful football teams - very few losses in four years. So, the color guy said something along the lines of:

"These young guys aren't used to being in this situation of being behind, they won't know how to handle it."

After Miami was driving down the field, literally minutes later ,the same guy said something like:

"These young guys know how to win, they know what it takes, they have done it repeatedly."

In other words, whoever happens to win, they did it because they were predestined to win with their superior character. Whatever. Boston won 3 of 4 from a roughly equal team. Tampa Bay won 3 of 4 from a somewhat inferior team. No magic was needed.
   14. Fred C. Dobbs  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 04:01 PM (#2973763)
Excuse me, I have a team to follow.


kevin always has a team to follow- because his life is essentially watching sports. What a ####### pathetic loser.
   15. Biscuit_pants  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 04:16 PM (#2973786)
kevin always has a team to follow- because his life is essentially watching sports. What a ####### pathetic loser.
So nice of you to take time out of your productive schedule to point that out.
   16. retro-shiite  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 04:17 PM (#2973789)
kevin always has a team to follow- because his life is essentially watching sports. What a ####### pathetic loser.

As opposed to those whose lives are limited to trolling on those whose lives are limited to watching sports, who are truly the engine that moves our society forward.
   17. Shredder  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 04:39 PM (#2973814)
I haven't been following the young career of Fred Dobbs, but anyone who can make people even tangentially defend kevin must be pretty disliked around these parts.
   18. Gonfalon Bubble  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:21 PM (#2973849)
That’s the difference between... a Francisco Rodriguez — whose record 62 regular-season saves didn’t stop him from taking a loss in Game 2 of the ALDS, and a Jonathan Papelbon, whose career postseason ERA remains 0.00.

Just like the great John Rocker!
   19. Harry Balsagne Teaches The Correct Way to Hit!!  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:47 PM (#2973869)
Isn't kevin some sort of globe-travelling epidemiologist or something? Help me out, kevin.
   20. Portia Stanke  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:41 PM (#2973886)
The use of the word myth when the author means falsehood continues to play its part in the downfall of civilization and imagination. I imagine that children of the future will wonder why they have to bother reading Virgil or Homer or the Hebrew Bible; after all, they're all just a bunch of lies.
   21. Biscuit_pants  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:41 PM (#2973887)
Isn't kevin some sort of globe-travelling epidemiologist or something? Help me out, kevin.
Is it serious?
   22. Walt Davis  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:57 PM (#2973898)
No magic was needed.

Bollocks! The Cubs lost 3 of 3 to an inferior team -- they're cursed!
   23. Lassus  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2973940)
I thought all of Tampa's success was due to their leader with the postseason experience - Cliff Floyd.

SWING THE BAT CLIFF, SWING THE DAMN... oh, sorry, flashback.
   24. Crispix Attacks is an antique dinosaur old cripple  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:26 PM (#2973945)
Neal Cotts's postseason ERA is 0.00 too, in 8 appearances. Didn't help the Cubs!

Isn't kevin some sort of globe-travelling epidemiologist or something?

Played by Denise Richards?
   25. DCA  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 09:55 PM (#2973990)
Therefore, I’m bound to insist that players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made.

I just want to point out this is absolutely true. I don't get what the fuss is about. Players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made. As are players who do not distinguish themselves, and probably well over 99% of all animals in the world.
   26. Cooperstown Schtick  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 10:19 PM (#2973999)
I don't think it's true of viruses, however. I'm not sure. I wonder how you would get the answer to that.
   27. HGM  Posted: October 07, 2008 at 11:03 PM (#2974026)
I just want to point out this is absolutely true. I don't get what the fuss is about. Players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made. As are players who do not distinguish themselves, and probably well over 99% of all animals in the world.

A+.
   28. Fancy Pants Handle  Posted: October 08, 2008 at 02:30 AM (#2974107)
I just want to point out this is absolutely true. I don't get what the fuss is about. Players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made. As are players who do not distinguish themselves, and probably well over 99% of all animals in the world.


A+.


D-

The vast majority of animals are hatched.
   29. Silver King  Posted: October 08, 2008 at 07:23 AM (#2974140)
COL (cackle out loud) for #24! (The quoted question is awfully cute too.)
Page 1 of 1 pages

You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.

 

<< Back to main

Support BBTF

donate

Thanks to
robinred
for his generous support.

My Bookmarks

You must be logged in to view your Bookmarks.

Vivid Seats is a sports ticket broker, concert ticket broker and theater ticket broker offering the best baseball tickets like Yankees tickets, Cubs tickets, and Red Sox tickets, as well as Police reunion tour tickets and Jersey Boys tickets.

We have baseball tickets, the NFL schedule, college football tickets and Cowboys tickets. We have NBA tickets like Celtics tickets and Lakers tickets. Plus, buy concert tickets, Patriots tickets and Colts tickets. Also check out our MLB baseball schedule

Baseball Bats

JustGreatTickets.com provides the best value for Chicago Cubs Tickets, MLB tickets including Red Sox Tickets, Yankees Tickets, SF Giants Tickets, LA Dodgers Tickets, Cleveland Indians Tickets. Get the best concert tickets like Jonas Brothers tickets and more Chicago Tickets.

Concerts Theatre NFL Angels Dodgers MLB Celtics Theater NBA Tickets Venues NHL Lakers Tickets NFL Yankees NHL Phillies NBA Wicked Marlins MLB Concerts Cubs Mets Red Sox Wicked WWE Red Sox Mets Yankees Dodgers

Major League Baseball: All Star Game, New York Yankees, Boston Red Sox, LA Angels, Washington Nationals, Chicago White Sox, and the Chicago Cubs.

Find terrific deals on Yankees tickets for the new home, Cubs tickets for classic Wrigley, or Red Sox tickets for Fenway with OnlineSeats. We have seats for every baseball game, including Dodgers tickets.

Alliance Tickets has cheap tickets available to all MLB games. We also have tickets to major concerts and theater events. Get tickets to the Colorado Rockies, the Seattle Mariners and all your favorite baseball teams. We also carry tickets to all the major Sporting Events.

Page rendered in 0.7263 seconds
82 querie(s) executed