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Tuesday, October 07, 2008

Kriegel: Rays debunking the myth of postseason experience

HELP!  My Triumphator CRN1 is stuck in my pocket!

Not long after crossing the plate Monday night, Jason Bay — 5-for-14 with five RBIs in the ALDS — was asked how he had ever gotten himself ready for the series, what with the utter lack of postseason experience.

“I can’t prepare for it,” he said.

No one can. Being there before hasn’t helped A-Rod. I don’t care what the sabermetric geeks do with their calculators; the heroically clutch athlete — the one who elevates his game under pressure — is the foundation of all sportswriting. Therefore, I’m bound to insist that players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made. That’s the difference between an Alfonso Soriano and a B.J. Upton, who homered twice Monday afternoon, between a Francisco Rodriguez — whose record 62 regular-season saves didn’t stop him from taking a loss in Game 2 of the ALDS, and a Jonathan Papelbon, whose career postseason ERA remains 0.00.

Repoz Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:04 PM | 29 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
  Related News: GeneralSabermetrics

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Page 1 of 1 pages
   1. Halofan Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2973573)
2002 Angels facing Yankees in ALDS had Kevin Appier with postseason experience while NY had over a hundred games of postseason experience. These guys have played thousands of games in their lives and a little more hype hardly affect their routine. Postseason experience means nothing.
   2. HGM Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:28 PM (#2973574)
So coherent on one hand with the whole "postseason experience isn't nearly as important as it's made out to be", and yet so off on the other hand with the whole "postseason players have it in their blood."
   3. Boots Day Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:36 PM (#2973587)
You'd think the Rockies would have debunked the myth of postseason experience last year. Or the 2006 Tigers. Or the 2003 Marlins. Or the 2002 Angels. Or the 2002 Giants...
   4. RoyalsRetro (AG#1F) Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:43 PM (#2973602)
They're too young to know they're supposed to be intimidated!!!
   5. Shredder Posted: October 07, 2008 at 05:59 PM (#2973638)
Like I said in 2002, going into the playoffs, the Angels had one guy with post-season experience. After game one, they had 25. Argument over.
   6. tribefan Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:13 PM (#2973651)
I don’t care what the sabermetric geeks do with their calculators;

I thought all you nerds used spreadsheets not calculators.
   7. Mudpout Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:15 PM (#2973654)
K-Rod is a bizarre example to use. Back in 2002 he had one of the most memorable playoff runs by a reliever in recent memory. So what was it? Did he have "The Clutch(tm)" back then, and then lost it since? Did he just get too good at the regular season to do well in the postseason?

The thing I can't stand about this kind of argument is not whether some guys are clutch and some guys aren't, or the existence of clutch play, but it seems like players have to be one OR the other. So what is K-Rod? The guy who had a 5-1 record in the bullpen for the '02 Angels, or the guy who has given up 4 runs in 2 2/3 innings over his last two playoff series? Keith Foulke, in 2000 and 2003 combined, gave up 5 runs in 7.1 innings during the playoffs. Oddly, those aren't the two years he's remembered for.
   8. Elston Gunn Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:17 PM (#2973657)
I don’t care what the sabermetric geeks do with their calculators; the heroically clutch athlete — the one who elevates his game under pressure — is the foundation of all sportswriting. Therefore, I’m bound to insist that players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made.


I didn't RTFA, but is this a joke? It actually reads like pretty good satire i.e. my job depends on fairy tales existing, therefore, I will continue to pretend they exist.

Edit: I'm sure it's not a joke though.
   9. AROM Posted: October 07, 2008 at 06:17 PM (#2973658)
I thought all of Tampa's success was due to their leader with the postseason experience - Cliff Floyd.
   10. Eric P. Posted: October 07, 2008 at 07:17 PM (#2973720)
Therefore, I’m bound to insist that players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made.


All one needs to do is look at Vladdy Guerrero's series against Boston to realize what a load of bunk this is. Or was he reborn sometime between last October & this October and I missed it?
   11. salvomania Posted: October 07, 2008 at 07:28 PM (#2973729)
There are two kinds of people: winners, and losers.

In crunch time, the winners seem to make the better ballplayers.
   12. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: October 07, 2008 at 07:39 PM (#2973739)
Isn't the claim susceptible to analysis by someone more facile with a geeky spreadsheet calculator than I?

Fred Given Player performs in a playoff game, relative to his career numbers to that point, better, the same, or worse. Factor in the number of playoff games FGP (and all players who have been in playoff games) has played to that point, and come up with a numerical description. It's a finite problem. There's nothing unsolvable about it unless you're a sportswriter.
   13. Ned Garvin: Male Prostitute Posted: October 07, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2973746)
I was watching the UNC-Miami football game a few weeks back, and Miami had one last drive to win the game. Their offensive skill players were very young, and all from high schools with exceptionally successful football teams - very few losses in four years. So, the color guy said something along the lines of:

"These young guys aren't used to being in this situation of being behind, they won't know how to handle it."

After Miami was driving down the field, literally minutes later ,the same guy said something like:

"These young guys know how to win, they know what it takes, they have done it repeatedly."

In other words, whoever happens to win, they did it because they were predestined to win with their superior character. Whatever. Boston won 3 of 4 from a roughly equal team. Tampa Bay won 3 of 4 from a somewhat inferior team. No magic was needed.
   14. Fred C. Dobbs Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2973763)
Excuse me, I have a team to follow.


kevin always has a team to follow- because his life is essentially watching sports. What a ####### pathetic loser.
   15. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:16 PM (#2973786)
kevin always has a team to follow- because his life is essentially watching sports. What a ####### pathetic loser.
So nice of you to take time out of your productive schedule to point that out.
   16. Gern Blanston Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2973789)
kevin always has a team to follow- because his life is essentially watching sports. What a ####### pathetic loser.

As opposed to those whose lives are limited to trolling on those whose lives are limited to watching sports, who are truly the engine that moves our society forward.
   17. Shredder Posted: October 07, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2973814)
I haven't been following the young career of Fred Dobbs, but anyone who can make people even tangentially defend kevin must be pretty disliked around these parts.
   18. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: October 07, 2008 at 09:21 PM (#2973849)
That’s the difference between... a Francisco Rodriguez — whose record 62 regular-season saves didn’t stop him from taking a loss in Game 2 of the ALDS, and a Jonathan Papelbon, whose career postseason ERA remains 0.00.

Just like the great John Rocker!
   19. Harry Balsagne's transparent jealousy Posted: October 07, 2008 at 09:47 PM (#2973869)
Isn't kevin some sort of globe-travelling epidemiologist or something? Help me out, kevin.
   20. Portia Stanke Posted: October 07, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2973886)
The use of the word myth when the author means falsehood continues to play its part in the downfall of civilization and imagination. I imagine that children of the future will wonder why they have to bother reading Virgil or Homer or the Hebrew Bible; after all, they're all just a bunch of lies.
   21. Biscuit_pants Posted: October 07, 2008 at 10:41 PM (#2973887)
Isn't kevin some sort of globe-travelling epidemiologist or something? Help me out, kevin.
Is it serious?
   22. Walt Davis Posted: October 07, 2008 at 10:57 PM (#2973898)
No magic was needed.

Bollocks! The Cubs lost 3 of 3 to an inferior team -- they're cursed!
   23. Lassus: Posted: October 08, 2008 at 12:17 AM (#2973940)
I thought all of Tampa's success was due to their leader with the postseason experience - Cliff Floyd.

SWING THE BAT CLIFF, SWING THE DAMN... oh, sorry, flashback.
   24. Crispix Attacks Posted: October 08, 2008 at 12:26 AM (#2973945)
Neal Cotts's postseason ERA is 0.00 too, in 8 appearances. Didn't help the Cubs!

Isn't kevin some sort of globe-travelling epidemiologist or something?

Played by Denise Richards?
   25. DCA Posted: October 08, 2008 at 01:55 AM (#2973990)
Therefore, I’m bound to insist that players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made.

I just want to point out this is absolutely true. I don't get what the fuss is about. Players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made. As are players who do not distinguish themselves, and probably well over 99% of all animals in the world.
   26. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: October 08, 2008 at 02:19 AM (#2973999)
I don't think it's true of viruses, however. I'm not sure. I wonder how you would get the answer to that.
   27. HGM Posted: October 08, 2008 at 03:03 AM (#2974026)
I just want to point out this is absolutely true. I don't get what the fuss is about. Players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made. As are players who do not distinguish themselves, and probably well over 99% of all animals in the world.

A+.
   28. Fancy Pants Handle is the AntAgonizer Posted: October 08, 2008 at 06:30 AM (#2974107)
I just want to point out this is absolutely true. I don't get what the fuss is about. Players who distinguish themselves in October are born, not made. As are players who do not distinguish themselves, and probably well over 99% of all animals in the world.


A+.


D-

The vast majority of animals are hatched.
   29. Silver King Posted: October 08, 2008 at 11:23 AM (#2974140)
COL (cackle out loud) for #24! (The quoted question is awfully cute too.)
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