Wow, later in the article Jackson notes that Pierre's speed is only an asset at the top of the order if Pierre gets on base a lot. At least somebody knows.

Ironically, that is what the ultimate decision might come down to. Of the three, Pierre would appear to be the least likely to contribute as a reserve. He has no power, and his speed adds a dimension at the top of the order - albeit one that is only effective if he can get on base a lot.

Meanwhile, both Ethier and Kemp would be legitimate power threats off the bench if Torre needed a pinch hitter in a key situation.

This is an odd section. It is basically saying that since Kemp and Ethier are better hitters than Pierre, they would conribute more off the bench. Well, yeah, but meaningless. ARod would contribute more as a pinch hitter than Betemit, but that doesn't mean you start Betemit.

What team could the Dodgers trade Pierre to? MLBTR suggests that maybe the Mets might be interested in him. Any thought from Mets' fans on that one?

Maybe I'm just off-base, but I think Pierre has a fair amount of value as a pinch-hitter. In the right PH situations, a single really is better than a walk. Pierre's ability to slap singles (he managed to hit .293 last year, and he was just plain awful in 2007) could be useful for a team with a deep outfield and plenty of power.

Of course, the Dodgers would need to eat the vast majority of Pierre's contract.

#4

He hit 292 in 2006, 276 in 2005. It isn't as if he was "unlucky", in terms of hits falling in, in 2007.

Also, Endy Chavez hit 287 in 2007. Plays better D than Pierre. Also fast. And his $3.85M / 2 contract was considered an overpay by some.

How much of Pierre's contract is Colletti willing to eat?

Almost $9 million for a bench player? Sounds about right to me.

Then again, I'm a Yankee fan.

There are a lot of teams that could use Pierre. Not if they have to pay him much or give up anything of value, but as somebody to stick in CF on a fairly regular basis sure. The Marlins, the Cardinals and maybe even the Braves spring immediately to mind.

Not if they have to pay him much or give up anything of value, but as somebody to stick in CF on a fairly regular basis sure. The Marlins, the Cardinals and maybe even the Braves spring immediately to mind.

Do the Cardinals really need a very expensive safety valve in case Ankiel, Barton, and Schumaker all collapse? Considering that a "collapse" for the first two would mean playing like Pierre sans the steals, I don't think so.

Don't forget Rasmus, Sparkles.

No, the Cardinals don't have a use for Pierre.

Not so much forgetting him as hoping that they don't start the clock too early in a lost season, especially when doing so would mean giving Barton back or hindering his development.

The Braves already have the Venezuelan version of Juan Pierre, Gregor Blanco. They don't need the original.

The Braves already have the Venezuelan version of Juan Pierre, Gregor Blanco.

The Latin versions are always cheaper.

You know a team is stupid if it's big news that they're actually starting their best players.

Can't the Mets sneak in here and steal a Kemp and Loney?

Can't the Mets sneak in here and steal a Kemp and Loney?

When you say "steal", I assume you mean "hogtie and physically kidnap." Because otherwise the Mets have nothing to trade for either, much less both.

Yes, I mean that.

However, I bet they could get one or even both for Aaron Heilman.

I actually think Blanco is better than Pierre. The times I have seen him this spring, he has been good on defence and showna good arm. And has worked teh count to get some walks ( Yea, might not be so helpful when he gets to the Majors ).
But he also hit for high averages in the minors. SO he is intriguing.

Wow, later in the article Jackson notes that Pierre's speed is only an asset at the top of the order if Pierre gets on base a lot. At least somebody knows.

IIRC Jackson has pretty much had it in for Ethier and Kemp for whatever reason. This qualifies as a Major Confession.

From the article:

"How sweet it is, the fruits of victory," Lasorda said. "We finally tasted it."

Having helped himself to everything else on the buffet first ...

On Cards ... the point being Ankiel may not be good enough for CF ... I certainly don't see any reason to expect he is. A healthy Gonzo in one of the OF spots is, how shall we say, a bit of a long shot. It's far from clear that Schumaker is better than Pierre (his minor-league career line looks a lot like Pierre's major-league career line) and Rasmus is likely starting the year in the minors.

As to the Braves, that was more a shot at Mark Kotsay who's possibly even toastier than Pierre (possibly on offense and defense) but still, as far as I know, slated for their starting CF job. Blanco's minor-league line is at least better than Pierre's major-league line (and the above description of his defense sounds better too).

The sad fact is that there were only 27 CFs with even 300 PA last year and Pierre was 25th in OPS and tied for 14th in OBP. Two teams had CF OPS's worse than Pierre's and Toronto wasn't far ahead.

It's sad and tragic but Pierre is still a starting-quality major-league CF by the skin of his teeth. And that's without even considering platoons and 4th OF jobs. Now there are a lot of other guys out there who will give you something close enough to Pierre for a lot less money, which is why the Dodgers will have to pay almost all the salary. And Pierre's future is not bright.

What team could the Dodgers trade Pierre to? MLBTR suggests that maybe the Mets might be interested in him. Any thought from Mets' fans on that one?

Lessee... JuanDone could easily wind up playing 50 games for the Mets, but I don't see him as significantly better than Pagan or Clark, and even if the Dodgers eat most of his salary, weu've still got him for four years. I can see him as my 5th outfielder at $1m per since my guess is that he'll be better than replacement for the next few years. I don't want this to keep Omar from going after a real OF/1b type who can hit lefties, however.

Any thought from Mets' fans on that one?

#### you and the horse you rode in on

The sad fact is that there were only 27 CFs with even 300 PA last year and Pierre was 25th in OPS and tied for 14th in OBP. Two teams had CF OPS's worse than Pierre's and Toronto wasn't far ahead.

This may be a bit unfair to Pierre, since 2007 was his worst year....
but:
1: Dodgers had a .682 OPS from their CFs, only the Whitesox had a worse one, Florida was at .683 and Toronto at .695

2: Pierre is not a good defensive CF (good being average or better than average)- for example Nook Logan is just as bad a hitter, but a better fielder.

3: Even if Pierre was the 25th best CF among those who were "starters" does not mean that he was in actuality the 27th best CF in baseball- when you are that far down the list there are almost certainly better CFs who either didn't start or played another position because their team had a better CF starting already. For instance 2006-07 Endy Chavez was a better player than 2006-07 Pierre, a better hitter and a vastly better fielder- he doesn't make the list for either year because the Mets have Beltran.
Carl Crawford- better CF than Pierre
Eric Byrnes- better CF than Pierre
Ryan Spilborghs- better than Pierre... you get the idea

And among players whose primary position was CF, and who had 300+ PAs, Pierre's OPS+ was 27th out of 30, not 25th.

Juan Pierre 2007 was not one of the 30 best CFs in MLB and therefore was not a starting quality player, Juan Pierre 2005-06 was better however, enough that he was merely a borderline starter.

It's sad and tragic but Pierre is still a starting-quality major-league CF by the skin of his teeth. And that's without even considering platoons and 4th OF jobs. Now there are a lot of other guys out there who will give you something close enough to Pierre for a lot less money, which is why the Dodgers will have to pay almost all the salary. And Pierre's future is not bright.

Why is it sad and tragic that Juan Pierre is still a starting-quality major league CFer? It may be sad how much he's paid, but that's another matter.

I've always rooted for Pierre. Seems to be a guy who has a lot of enjoyment playing the game, and has the kind of skills that I find more aesthetically pleasing (if not necessarily productive). As far as I'm concerned, the longer guys like him are playing regularly the better, even if its just by the skin of their teeth.

Any thought from Mets' fans on that one?

O nation miserable,
With an untitled tyrant bloody-sceptred,
When shalt thou see thy wholesome days again,
Since that the truest issue of thy throne
By his own interdiction stands accursed
And does blaspheme his breed?

and has the kind of skills that I find more aesthetically pleasing (if not necessarily productive).

He has the kind of skills that make me tear the hair from my head, because my favorite team has long had a weakness for guys who run fast, can't throw, are not particularly good fielders despite the ability to outrun some mistakes, and don;t get on base enough to help.

I don't mind seeing these guys play for other teams mind you.

I have always had a fondness for the relatively un-athletic guys who are criticized for looking like Beer League softball players- but who actually know how to pay the game in a productive fashion.

I don't mind seeing these guys play for other teams mind you.

I didn't say I wanted my team to acquire him. But if I'm watching a game where I have no rooting interest, I'd rather see Juan Pierre play than some TTO guy.

I didn't say I wanted my team to acquire him. But if I'm watching a game where I have no rooting interest, I'd rather see Juan Pierre play than some TTO guy.

That's a good question. I think I really like a mix. Ideally, I like guys who mix power and speed the best, but I have a soft spot in my heart for the Platonic ideal of a baseball lineup which would be

1. Speedy guy who gets on base
2. Decent oba guy patient enough to let the leadoff guys steal, good bat control
3. Best hitter on the team
4. Big fat masher
5. Aspiring big fat masher, or big fat masher on the wrong side of the aging curve
6. A guy with a touch less oba skill than your #2, but a touch more power. Decent glove guy, too
7. Up the middle defensive stalwart with some batting skill
8. All field, no hit guy
9. Pitcher