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Thursday, May 07, 2009

(LAT) Manny Ramirez suspended 50 games.

Just Manny being Manny?

Wanting to give the young kids a chance to produce on the Dodgers? Get A-Rod off the back pages? Or a condemnation of the Red Sox world series victories?

Who will think of the children?

Manny Ramirez has tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs and will be suspended 50 games starting today, The Times has learned.

bob gaj Posted: May 07, 2009 at 02:49 PM | 594 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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101. hokieneer Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:33 PM (#3168979)

And Here I had my money on David Ortiz being outed first.

102. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:33 PM (#3168980)

Okay, let him explain, and then air the evidence and see if he's just bullshltting or not. It's not as if he's likely to skip the country in the meantime.

But if by some outside chance he's telling the truth, then you have to question the safeguards involved in interpreting these tests.

important point. Types of steroids are, at times, prescribed to patients to treat certain injuries, and to enhance rehabilitation. If you're a baseball player, basically the league rules can undermine your ability to treat yourself as your doctor may prescribe, whether it is a steroid, or other medicine which appears on the prohibited substance list.

103. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:35 PM (#3168981)

Manny's a different case to the others. Steroids make you stronger, but they don't make you hit .348. Manny's much more of a pure hitter than say McGwire or Sosa.

Sammy did hit 320 and 328 in back to back years. Then again, he has no more evidence of steroids against him than Albert Pujols does.

104. BeanoCook Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:35 PM (#3168982)

MANNY'S OFFICIAL STATEMENT

That is a good NFL sounding statement, but not enough for baseball Im afraid, too bad this works for the NFL.

105. Schilling's Sprained Ankiel Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:35 PM (#3168983)

This sucks. I like Manny. Still.

106. Styles P. Deadball Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:36 PM (#3168985)

I just want to get a post in on this thread so I don't seem like some Johnny-Come-Lately with post # 1600... in about an hour.

107. Joe Bivens, Schmoo from Massachoosetts Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:36 PM (#3168986)

T'undering Jesus on da Mount!

What does this mean for my Roto team? Should I dump him, or what?

No. I must keep him!!

108. salvomania Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:36 PM (#3168987)

So is Manny the first high-profile baseball player to be suspended for PEDs?

109. dingo powered war machine (CoB) Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:37 PM (#3168988)

update from Will Carroll

Two sources confirm for me that Ramirez did not test positive for an anabolic steroid. What the substance was remains unclear. The press release from MLB indicates that it was not a “drug of abuse” or a “stimulant,” the other two classes of banned substances. Ramirez’s positive test came during Spring Training, which follows his story that he received the substance from a doctor this January.

Plot thickens ...

110. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:37 PM (#3168989)

We get it Beano, you hate the NFL. I'm not crazy about it myself, but give it a rest.

111. ekogan Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:37 PM (#3168990)

This certainly casts a pall over the Red Sox championship teams, but I still feel that they were clean. Just as long as nobody discovers that Doug Mirabelli was using. Anybody but not Dougie. There's nothing in his blood except red-white-and-blue cells and chicken parmigiana.

112. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:37 PM (#3168991)

This sucks. I like Manny. Still.

It's ok to like him. He's not Hitler, afterall. Manny lost me for the traveling secretary BS, personally. That was much more egregious IMHO than steroids or whatever the hell he was taking. I'm not sorry to see karma bite him in the ass (pun!) here.

113. Tulo's Fishy Mullet (mrams) Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:37 PM (#3168992)

Does anyone know what the 'waiver process' entails? How does one get to use prohibited drugs for therapy, etc?

114. Fat Al Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:38 PM (#3168994)

Should I dump him, or what?

No way. July 3 is just around the corner.

115. Lassus: Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:38 PM (#3168995)

You know, maybe, just maybe, this actually makes the MLB out to look incredibly stupid.

Apparently Will Carroll is reporting it isn't anabolic steroids.

If not that, amps, marijuana, or HGH, what the hell else is left?

116. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:38 PM (#3168997)

And Here I had my money on David Ortiz being outed first.

I thought it was obvious that he quit.

117. bunyon Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3168998)

I could totally see it being weed.

"Manny feels comfortable in LA" indeed.

118. There are no words... (Met Fan Charlie) Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3168999)

And things just keep on going well for the Red Sox...

119. RayDiPerna

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3169000)

Sammy did hit 320 and 328 in back to back years. Then again, he has no more evidence of steroids against him than Albert Pujols does.

That's not true at all.

"Albert Pujols did steroids."

Now it's true.

120. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3169001)

Apparently Will Carroll is reporting it isn't steroids.

Oboy. Now we get to add a "Will Carroll reporting" offshoot to this thread. That is freakin gold!

121. tribefan Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3169002)

Meth? How do his teeth look?

122. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:39 PM (#3169003)

Shocked, but not surprised.

123. Gamingboy Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:40 PM (#3169004)

(SMASHES INTO THE ROOM)

QUICK, TELL ME HOW THE CONVERSATION HAS GONE SO FAR!?!?!

What did he do? What stupid thing did he do? He's too dumb to have done steroids on purpose, but he's also too dumb to have done steroids by accident.

124. Lassus: Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:40 PM (#3169005)

Based on Carroll's reporting, this is starting to get a little weird.

125. RJ in TO Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:40 PM (#3169006)

Does anyone know what the 'waiver process' entails? How does one get to use prohibited drugs for therapy, etc?

Basically, you apply for the waiver, get examined by the appropriate doctors (both yours, and I think MLB ones), have it confirmed that the theraputic use waiver you're requesting is applicable to your condition, and it gets put through by MLB.

126. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:41 PM (#3169009)

Manny's been huffing paint.

127. Fat Al Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:41 PM (#3169011)

Two sources confirm for me that Ramirez did not test positive for an anabolic steroid. What the substance was remains unclear. The press release from MLB indicates that it was not a “drug of abuse” or a “stimulant,” the other two classes of banned substances. Ramirez’s positive test came during Spring Training, which follows his story that he received the substance from a doctor this January.

So it's not any of the 3 categories of banned substances? I smell a rat.

128. RJ in TO Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:41 PM (#3169012)

Based on Carroll's reporting, this is starting to get a little weird.

When was the last time that something happened involving Manny which wasn't at least a little weird?

129. Moneyball can't buy you love (Joey B.) Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:42 PM (#3169013)

Apparently Will Carroll is reporting it isn't anabolic steroids.

Welcome to the fantasy-based BTF universe, where Selena Roberts has no credibility, but Will Carroll does.

Ramirez has already announced that he's not even going to challenge the suspension. What a joke.

130. Repoz

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:42 PM (#3169014)

Will Carroll sez..."Not pot, not ADD, not stimulant."

131. Gamingboy Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:42 PM (#3169015)

On MLB Network they are not saying "Positive PED", they are just saying "Positive Drug Test". ESPN isn't saying "steroids' or "PED" or anything either.

What was he smoking?

132. Nasty Nate Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:43 PM (#3169016)

ephedrine from cold medicine?

opioid pain medication?

testosterone?

pure adrenachrome?

133. Jimmy P Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:43 PM (#3169017)

Ramirez has already announced that he's not even going to challenge the suspension. What a joke.

If this is true, and all the talk of it not being a steroid/PED are true, then it sounds like Manny has a medical condition he wants no one to know about.

134. Nathan Kunkel Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:43 PM (#3169018)

wait wait wait

did i mention 'wait'?

135. Crispix Attacks Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:43 PM (#3169019)

I just want to point out that Manny's statement is NOT the exact same statement all players put out in this situation. JC Romero made it very clear that he blames his positive test on a commercially-available GNC-type product which he had been led to believe was permissible under the rules, but then turned out to contain ingredients he had no way of knowing about. The "I had a prescription" approach is completely different.

Have there been any other approaches to this situation?

136. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:43 PM (#3169020)

Okay, let him explain, and then air the evidence and see if he's just bullshltting or not. It's not as if he's likely to skip the country in the meantime.

But if by some outside chance he's telling the truth, then you have to question the safeguards involved in interpreting these tests.

important point. Types of steroids are, at times, prescribed to patients to treat certain injuries, and to enhance rehabilitation. If you're a baseball player, basically the league rules can undermine your ability to treat yourself as your doctor may prescribe, whether it is a steroid, or other medicine which appears on the prohibited substance list.

And that's something that's always concerned me: Whether or not allowances are made for legitimate medical use, in amounts that wouldn't be enough for the sort of performance enhancement that's come to be associated with steroids. It only seems fair that before any test results are made public, a player should be confronted with the evidence and allowed to answer it. After that, and after it's obvious that the drugs were used for performance enhancement, then by all means publicize and suspend. But what's the harm in taking an extra day or three to make sure they get it right? Again, he's not leaving the country.

137. aleskel

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:44 PM (#3169021)

I know it. Heroin.

138. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:44 PM (#3169022)

Maybe Manny ate Jonathan Livingston Seagull? That would be worth 50 games. That bird is groovy.

139. phredbird

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:44 PM (#3169023)

This certainly casts a pall over the Red Sox championship teams

??? because he tested positive for something that he took THIS YEAR?

140. ...even Chuck Norris was afraid of Jim Rice Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:44 PM (#3169024)

Well, Manny's sure as hell not opting out anymore.

And god, this ####### sucks for the Dodgers. Having a protracted four month negotiation with Boars, having Manny get off to a hot start, and then this... Damn.

141. Obi One Kenobi Nil (BFFB)

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:44 PM (#3169025)

Holy ####

I know it. Heroin.

Kinda think that counts as a drug of abuse, not that I have a predisposition to believe Carroll

142. Nobody ##### with DeJesus Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:45 PM (#3169026)

Medicinal weed? (this is California)

MLB doesn't hand out 50-game suspensions for smoking reefer, do they?

143. Bill McNeal Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:45 PM (#3169027)

What happens to the ~8mil Ramirez was due to be paid for the 50 games? Do the Dodgers gets to save 8 mil? Do the Dodgers still have to pay it, but the money goes to the league, or a charity?

144. GregQ Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:45 PM (#3169028)

Isn't cocaine a prescription drug in LA? They give it to you so that you will fit in, at least that is what I was told.

145. J.C. Bradbury Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:45 PM (#3169030)

Will Carroll Tweet

Ok this is big ... Manny was suspended under 8.G.2 of the JDA. That's "other" and at Commish's discretion. http://bit.ly/a7Kq0

146. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:45 PM (#3169029)

MLB doesn't hand out 50-game suspensions for smoking reefer, do they?

Only if you bogart.

147. tfbg9 Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:46 PM (#3169031)

MLB.com said PED.

Will Carrol is right how often? 33%?

148. Nasty Nate Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:46 PM (#3169033)

What happens to the ~8mil Ramirez was due to be paid for the 50 games? Do the Dodgers gets to save 8 mil? Do the Dodgers still have to pay it, but the money goes to the league, or a charity?

$$ goes to build little league baseball fields in urban L.A., where coincidentally manny will be playing ball this spring.

149. RJ in TO Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:46 PM (#3169034)

And that's something that's always concerned me: Whether or not allowances are made for legitimate medical use, in amounts that wouldn't be enough for the sort of performance enhancement that's come to be associated with steroids.

Allowances are made. It's called a theraputic use waiver, and something like 8% of the league already has them, for at least one item. If Manny couldn't be bothered to get one, that's his problem.

150. JoeHova Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:46 PM (#3169035)

I'm disappointed that this happened. I feel bad for Dodger fans, who now will surely have their enthusiasm curbed, at least to some degree.

151. Lassus: Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:46 PM (#3169036)

Welcome to the fantasy-based BTF universe, where Selena Roberts has no credibility, but Will Carroll does.

Joey, please, take a ####### pill. Saying what Will Carroll is reporting is not calling up proof anyone did or didn't do anything. God, you're annoying.

152. Tripon Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3169037)

THE #### IS OTHER. WHAT THE #### IS OTHER. ####### SELIG.

153. Obi One Kenobi Nil (BFFB)

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3169038)

What the heck else "OTHER" is there? Putting rhino horn on your schlong?

154. Crispix Attacks Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3169039)

Having a protracted four month negotiation with Boars

Feed 'im to the pigs, 'arold.

155. Gamingboy Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3169040)

I wonder when Lord Haw-Haw will start talking. That's gonna be golden.

For those of you keeping count, only Griffey and Thome are left as "clean" 500+ guys. (Frank Thomas is still retired, right?)

And here I thought all I'd be doing all day was listening to samples from the Star Trek soundtrack.

156. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3169041)

The ignore feature is your friend.

157. aleskel

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3169042)

Manny was suspended under 8.G.2 of the JDA. That's "other" and at Commish's discretion.

probably the towel thing

158. akrasian Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3169043)

Oh, and before I forget: HAHA!
O-Dawg's suspension is next.

And yet, the Dodgers would still be better than the Diamondbacks.

159. JJ1986 Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3169044)

MLB doesn't hand out 50-game suspensions for smoking reefer, do they?

They actually do. Jeremy Jeffress got one.

160. RJ in TO Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:48 PM (#3169045)

What the heck else "OTHER" is there? Snorting rhino horn?

Smoking banana peels.

161. tribefan Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:48 PM (#3169046)

Manny was probably licking toads.

162. hokieneer Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:48 PM (#3169047)

If this is true, and all the talk of it not being a steroid/PED are true, then it sounds like Manny has a medical condition he wants no one to know about.

I'm thinking this as well. It would be nice if he could somehow clear his name of being a "roider", but still maintain his medical privacy. Looks like he can't have it both ways.

163. Player X Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:48 PM (#3169048)

What the heck else "OTHER" is there? Snorting rhino horn?

Viagra?

164. Lassus: Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:48 PM (#3169049)

Too bad that this (and the A-Rod thing) casts a pall over the season

Not mine. This season is awesome so far. As far as I'm concerned, this is just a blip.

165. gef the talking mongoose Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:48 PM (#3169050)

C'mon, people. My fantasy baseball team's partial reliance on Andre Ethier is certainly the most important consideration here.

166. chris p Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:48 PM (#3169052)

Isn't cocaine a prescription drug in LA?

it's schedule II. so yeah, you can get a prescription for it.

167. RJ in TO Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:48 PM (#3169051)

(Frank Thomas is still retired, right?)

Technically? No. Realistically? Yes.

168. Hector Moreda & The Generalissimo Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:49 PM (#3169053)

Maybe he tested positive for Lohan, and this a CDC operation

169. SouthSideRyan Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:49 PM (#3169055)

What the heck else "OTHER" is there? Snorting rhino horn?

Human horn.

170. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder. Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:50 PM (#3169056)

Will Carroll is often full of ####.

171. Obi One Kenobi Nil (BFFB)

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:50 PM (#3169057)

OMG teh Swine Flu!

Human horn.

Futurama FTW

172. Guapo Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:50 PM (#3169058)

171 posts in 1 hour... not bad.

173. Backlasher

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3169061)

After that, and after it's obvious that the drugs were used for performance enhancement, then by all means publicize and suspend. But what's the harm in taking an extra day or three to make sure they get it right? Again, he's not leaving the country.

If the test was from Spring Training, I would hope that enough time has passed for the player/agent/union to have taken the necessary steps in due process.

Boras is going to give a press conference later today. I will wait to hear what he has to say b/4 making any conclusions about Manny's use.

174. Nobody ##### with DeJesus Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3169060)

MLB doesn't hand out 50-game suspensions for smoking reefer, do they?

They actually do. Jeremy Jeffress got one.

Unbelievable. If the NBA did that, they'd lose half the league.

175. aleskel

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3169059)

Human horn.

we will now harvest ... THE LOWER HORN!

176. Fat Al Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3169062)

This certainly casts a pall over the Red Sox championship teams

??? because he tested positive for something that he took THIS YEAR?

No pall if you believe everyone's statements that they admit only what they got caught doing. Did you believe Rodriguez/Pettitte/Roberts on the limited timeline of their admitted use?

177. Gamingboy Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3169063)

Manny Ramirez was high on a new super-drug that is part steroid, part hallucinogen.

178. Moneyball can't buy you love (Joey B.) Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3169064)

Will Carroll is often full of ####.

That, and he's also squarely in the enabler camp on the entire steroid issue, like so many of the regulars here.

179. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:51 PM (#3169065)

Human horn.

A Futurama fan, I see. :-)

180. Nasty Nate Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3169066)

Maybe Manny has narcolepsy?

181. Hack Wilson Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3169067)

The fact that he apologized to Mrs. McCourt makes me think Viagra was involved (or apologized for it no longer being involved).

182. Bernal Diaz has an angel on his shoulder. Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3169068)

That, and he's also squarely in the enabler camp on the entire steroid issue, like so many of the regulars here.

Yeah, I don't really think MLB players really give a flying #### what we think but sometimes it is nice to feel special. I guess.

183. deputydrew Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3169069)

I might be the only one here to say this, but I can't wait for Bill Simmons's podcast.

184. Backlasher

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:53 PM (#3169070)

That's not true at all.

"Albert Pujols did steroids."

Now it's true.

Ray,

I think there is a political thread to take that extreme brand of silly skepticism too. Manny has actually been adjudicated under MLB policy that was subject to bargaining. There is no "witch hunt" There is no false accusation.

185. TerpNats Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:53 PM (#3169072)

So assuming no rainouts, when does Ramirez become eligible again? I'm guessing it's sometime near the end of June, but which day?

186. dingo powered war machine (CoB) Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:53 PM (#3169073)

ephedrine from cold medicine?

opioid pain medication?

testosterone?

pure adrenachrome?

adrenochrome?

187. Crispix Attacks Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:53 PM (#3169074)

If this had been revealed while Manny was negotiating with the Dodgers, Boras's tears at the subsequent press conference would have rivalled those he shed after the Adenhart tragedy...

188. Sam M. Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:54 PM (#3169075)

I blame Joba, and so does Jon Lester.

189. Shooty: Applying to be Fearless Leader

Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:54 PM (#3169076)

Is MLB TV covering this now?

190. Al Kaline Trio Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:55 PM (#3169077)

Both are known drug users and clowns. I can only come to one conclusion.

Manny's been hanging out with Steve-O!!11!!

191. Fat Al Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:55 PM (#3169078)

I haven't counted, but someone said July 3 somewhere.

192. gef the talking mongoose Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:55 PM (#3169079)

We get it Beano, you hate the NFL.

Good christ. This means there's something Beano & I agree on.

Note to self: Take acid bath ASAP.

193. Jimmy P Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:55 PM (#3169080)

So assuming no rainouts, when does Ramirez become eligible again? I'm guessing it's sometime near the end of June, but which day?

July 3rd.

194. SoSH U at work Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:56 PM (#3169082)

Smoking banana peels.

Just a few of his Manny Smells.

195. Lassus: Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:56 PM (#3169083)

adrenochrome?

I took that once. You see the most amazing colors, man. And very excitedly.

196. wickedwitch Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:56 PM (#3169084)

This certainly casts a pall over the Red Sox championship teams, but I still feel that they were clean.

I assume that last part is a joke.

197. hokieneer Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:56 PM (#3169085)

ESPN is still calling it a PED, and Crasnick and others are linking and comparing this to A-Rod. Not quite accurate, A-Rod admitted to taking Roids, manny was suspended under the "OTHER" clause.

EDIT: after saying PED for about an hour, ESPN.com just changed it to "drug policy" but still has the video up of an anchor and Crasnick talking about it being PEDS. I assume there will be a "Sportscenter special" on at 2 pm EST, where all the talking heads will re-regurgitate the same opinions and blend those into "facts" for an hour or 2.

198. deputydrew Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:56 PM (#3169086)

Shocked, but not surprised.

Really? You view surprised>shocked? I don't. I often say that something surprised me, but didn't shock me. I'd be surprised if I roll four sixes in row on a die. I'd be shocked if I roll 24 in a row.

Am I wrong here?

199. Who Swished In Your Cornflakes? Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:57 PM (#3169087)

Found the 2005 list of banned substances online, and it has a specific section dedicated to marijuana:

"A Player on the Administrative Track for the use or possession of marijuana shall not be subject to suspension. The Player will be subject to fines, which shall be progressive and which shall not exceed $15,000."

Here's the link I used. Admittedly I didn't run an exhaustive search for the full CBA. http://fl1.findlaw.com/news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/sports/mlbdrugpolicy05.pdf

Not sure how much has changed since then. In any case, what I found also says that, with certain exceptions, players cannot be tested for "drugs of abuse," like marijuana.

200. winnipegwhip Posted: May 07, 2009 at 03:57 PM (#3169088)

Will this story save the Boston Globe?

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(LAT) Manny Ramirez suspended 50 games.

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