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Wednesday, July 01, 2009

Lead gets away from Boston bullpen | redsox.com: News

This is one game I’m glad I stopped watching early.

“Thirteen hits in two innings,” Francona said. “We just had no answer. We went through just about everybody. There were balls everywhere. We gave up 13 hits [in two innings]. That was as bad as we’ve seen. Nothing we did worked.”

By the time it was over, the bullpen had given up a total of 10 runs on 13 hits in four innings.

Jim Furtado Posted: July 01, 2009 at 08:21 AM | 49 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   1. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: July 01, 2009 at 09:37 AM (#3238796)
Pride goeth before the fall.
   2. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: July 01, 2009 at 10:02 AM (#3238801)
   3. Will Shave Off My Listach for an O's Win Posted: July 01, 2009 at 10:05 AM (#3238803)
If only the umpires had let them retire the Orioles with two outs an inning.


Yeah, I think that might have woken the O's up a bit.

But, Baltimore's kinda due against Boston, and for one game at least, it feels nice.
   4. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: July 01, 2009 at 10:24 AM (#3238804)
There were a number of weakly-struck hits, any one of which would've likely changed the complextion of those last few innings. But you can say that about a lot of games.

The rain delay was a killer, too. Smoltz was pitching very well, fastball at 92-93, very good location - really, outside of the first inning of his first start, he's looked very good (against WAS and BAL, to be fair). He had thrown only 52 pitches through 4 innings when the rain came. He was certainly in line to pitch two more innings, maybe three, and at that point, it's a different game.

So, bad night for the bullpen, but if Smoltz is going to pitch anything close to this well, the Red Sox will be thrilled.
   5. AROM Posted: July 01, 2009 at 11:05 AM (#3238807)
What a wonderful, wonderful surprise. I never even turned the game on when I saw the O's were down 9 to 1.
   6. Will Shave Off My Listach for an O's Win Posted: July 01, 2009 at 11:32 AM (#3238818)
There were a number of weakly-struck hits, any one of which would've likely changed the complextion of those last few innings.


Especially the two doubles by Luke Scott.
   7. DKDC Posted: July 01, 2009 at 11:39 AM (#3238822)
There were a number of weakly-struck hits


Not really. There was an infield hit that the catcher misplayed, and a bloop by Markakis that didn't lead to any runs. The other 11 hits they got in those two innings were hit pretty hard (or very hard). Two of the outs were a warning track flyout and a line drive right at Pedroia.
   8. Answer Guy Posted: July 01, 2009 at 11:39 AM (#3238823)
If only the umpires had let them retire the Orioles with two outs an inning.


But not that inning. It was the 7th and 8th that they couldn't end in time, not the 5th or 6th - whichever inning that was, I forget.
   9. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: July 01, 2009 at 11:52 AM (#3238830)
No, i'm saying that they should have let them end every inning with two outs. That would certainly help them win games.
   10. The Essex Snead Posted: July 01, 2009 at 11:58 AM (#3238834)
Tito got a little lazy w/ the big lead -- he left Masterson out there 2 hitters too long after starting his 3rd inning of work. Even if one of the hitters was Oscar Salazar. JM had throw about 30 pitches, and there's no reason to not bring in Delcarmen with the O's threatening to make it a game if he's already warmed up. And then he went long with Okajima the next inning. But stuff happens.
   11. AROM Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:02 PM (#3238836)
The Orioles should let the rest of the league in on whatever it is they know about hitting Okajima.
   12. Answer Guy Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:10 PM (#3238843)
Not that you want to second-guess everything the manager did (though if there's an appropriate time for it, losing a game where you were leading 10-1 is it) but what little we saw of Delcarmen looked good. The trouble, as I said last night, with churning through pitchers is that eventually you'll find one, or in this case, several, that just doesn't or don't have it that night.

Masterson's supposed to be a starter, so he really should have been able to handle at least 3 innings without tiring. If he can't then we should give up on him ever starting beyond spot duty.
   13. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:18 PM (#3238845)
Masterson lost it quick. It was stunning how fast it happened. I think on a practical basis he maybe waited one batter too long but I don't know if Delcarmen had time to get loose. I wonder if with the delay and the weather like it was it took him a little longer than usual to get ready. As AG pointed out Masterson didn't work that hard, he only threw 35 pitches so it was kind of surprising to see him lose it like he did.

I didn't mind the switch from Delcarmen to Okajima to face Markakis. The fact is that even if Delcarmen stays in and gets Markakis with Huff/Reimold/Scott due in the 8th it's probably the right call to have Okajima pitch that inning.
   14. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:18 PM (#3238847)
Oh, and I agree with DKDC, there weren't that many cheapies in the 13 hits over those two innings.
   15. Designated Sitter (GGC) Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:26 PM (#3238852)
Like the Jim, I turned this off early. Actually, I stopped listening after Hill got lifted.
   16. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:33 PM (#3238859)
You couldn't get a better 1-2 punch than to switch from another late inning Yankee win (with Mariano's 501st save), to a completely unexpected Boston meltdown. It almost made me proud once again to be an American.
   17. Answer Guy Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:35 PM (#3238862)
At least there's an off day Thursday. But in the meantime the Sox will *really* a need a strong outing from Beckett in this upcoming game. With the AL East this competitive, losing a series to the Orioles isn't a luxury easily afforded.
   18. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer Posted: July 01, 2009 at 12:40 PM (#3238868)
I went back and thought about the hits in those two innings, and #6 and #7 are right - most of the hits were actually pretty well-struck. Masterson had looked very good in the 5th and 6th, and then the floor fell out - it is pretty clear that Francona's intention was to have Masterson pitch three innings, and then give two other relievers an inning each. That's a reasonable set of assumptions, and Francona's been very good about keeping his bullpen work balanced all season (very few multi-inning appearances, quietly developing roles for the seven relievers based on the score of the game, etc.).

But, upon further review, there's no getting around it. Most of the pitchers got torched...
   19. robinred Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:05 PM (#3238879)
Too bad the Orioles couldn't pull off a rally like this in front of a home crowd.
   20. The Essex Snead Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:14 PM (#3238884)
Masterson's supposed to be a starter, so he really should have been able to handle at least 3 innings without tiring. If he can't then we should give up on him ever starting beyond spot duty.


Yeah, ideally that would've been the way to go, but like JoseBiscuit noted, JM just lost it in that third inning, and that near-HR that Scott thwacked off the RF wall should've been a sign to stall long enough to get Delcarmen ready to come in.

But, as folks have already said, it's just one game, nothing to see here, move along, yadda yadda yadda.
   21. Martin Hemner Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:45 PM (#3238902)
With the AL East this competitive, losing a series to the Orioles isn't a luxury easily afforded.

Three months into the season, the AL East has generally been as advertised. Tampa did take a bit longer to get going, but where things stand on July 1 is in line with preseason expectations.

One of the talking heads on XM Home Plate was talking about how the Red Sox were a mortal lock to make the playoffs. While they are a favorite, because of a 4 game head start on Tampa, I can't see how they are a lock. All three teams are generally healthy, and you could make a strong case for any of the three missing the playoffs. It should be a great stretch run this year...

If that was too positive, I apologize. My next post will be how baseball is dying because of steroids and ARod.
   22. Answer Guy Posted: July 01, 2009 at 01:46 PM (#3238903)
But, as folks have already said, it's just one game, nothing to see here, move along, yadda yadda yadda.


Well, you always look for lessons when you lose about what to do differently next time, one game or otherwise. There's not much here beyond pulling Delcarmen too fast and not noticing Masterson was cooked and/or that Okajima wasn't fooling anyone.

I haven't looked at Masterson's splits lately and wonder if those improved from last year.
   23. The Yankee Clapper Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:14 PM (#3238933)
You couldn't get a better 1-2 punch than to switch from another late inning Yankee win (with Mariano's 501st save), to a completely unexpected Boston meltdown. It almost made me proud once again to be an American.

I had hoped that the always amusing Pants Pissers would be out in force today, but that does not appear to be the case [sigh]. Just not the same anymore.
   24. The Good Face Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:23 PM (#3238941)
There were balls everywhere.


They should try wearing pants.
   25. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:29 PM (#3238946)
Well, you always look for lessons when you lose about what to do differently next time, one game or otherwise. There's not much here beyond pulling Delcarmen too fast and not noticing Masterson was cooked and/or that Okajima wasn't fooling anyone.

I haven't looked at Masterson's splits lately and wonder if those improved from last year.


To me the biggest lesson going forward was that Smoltz looked sharp. I thought that was a real positive.

Masterson doesn't have a big split though it's more a case of being less effective against righties this year.

OPS against;
2008: .787 LHB/.572 RHB
2009: .805 LHB/.717 RHB
   26. Dingbat Charlie Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:33 PM (#3238949)
That comeback was a slice of fried gold. But I fully expect a return to suck today vs Beckett and I doubt Bergesen's magic will hold up against the Sox.
   27. Best Regards, Larry Mahnken (Dewey is a slacker) Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:37 PM (#3238953)
One of the talking heads on XM Home Plate was talking about how the Red Sox were a mortal lock to make the playoffs. While they are a favorite, because of a 4 game head start on Tampa, I can't see how they are a lock. All three teams are generally healthy, and you could make a strong case for any of the three missing the playoffs. It should be a great stretch run this year...
The Red Sox, Yankees and Rays are all mortal locks to make the playoffs. The Blue Jays might make it, too.
   28. Answer Guy Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:37 PM (#3238954)
I had hoped that the always amusing Pants Pissers would be out in force today, but that does not appear to be the case [sigh]. Just not the same anymore.


2004 happened. And 2007 happened.

And more on-topic-wise, this doesn't seem to fit into any obvious pattern of losing, or suckitude, or of incompetence on the parts of the manager or players. It looks like an isolated incident, albeit an especially horrific one.

I do start wonder about the defense though when that many hits are coughed up in such a short span. Better defense might have prevented that loss.
   29. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:38 PM (#3238955)
I had hoped that the always amusing Pants Pissers would be out in force today, but that does not appear to be the case [sigh]. Just not the same anymore.


I would recommend checking out weei.com (Sports radio in Boston). They are usually good for that stuff.

Seriously though, last night's loss, as horrid as it was, wasn't really a pants pisser. We can quibble with Francona a bit but he didn't do anything egregiously terrible and there weren't awful errors or anything, it was just rocket after rocket. Looking back on it I can't find a moment where I say "if we had just...we would have won."

It sucked pretty bad though. Really, once they got to 10-6 the only moment I thought we might survive was when Pie whiffed but even then I didn't feel good that had Papelbon gotten Markakis out he would have been able to navigate the ninth.
   30. DKDC Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:43 PM (#3238957)
Not to be the biggest wet blanket ever, but I thought Smoltz looked more decent than sharp.

He wasn't missing a lot of bats, and he gave up several very deep fly balls. His two strikeouts came against Jones (who was clearly not right after his run-in with the wall), and Markakis (on a borderline pitch).

We'll never know what would've happened the third and fourth times through the batting order, but I'm not convinced the result would've been much different.
   31. Dingbat Charlie Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:46 PM (#3238960)
I didn't feel good that had Papelbon gotten Markakis out he would have been able to navigate the ninth.

I thought Paps would slam the door but was hoping we'd extend him enough over 5 outs to make him unavailable today.
   32. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 01, 2009 at 02:59 PM (#3238968)
I'm trying to pretend last night's game didn't exist. At least it's the middle of the season, and Baltimore. It's not as though we needed the game against them. Let it be a cautionary tale for not giving up on a game just because you're up big after five innings.
   33. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:01 PM (#3238969)
That was awesome. That is all.
   34. Jose Can You Seabiscuit Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:03 PM (#3238970)
I thought Paps would slam the door but was hoping we'd extend him enough over 5 outs to make him unavailable today.


You might get the best of both worlds there. The Sox rarely use him three days in a row. The last time they did it he blew the save on day #3 (last September vs. Tampa). He's only thrown 15-16 pitches the last two days though so they might go to him in the 9th if circumstances warrant. I'm actually mildly curious to see how they would deal with it if the situation came to pass.
   35. rlc Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:07 PM (#3238973)
If only the umpires had let them retire the Orioles with two outs an inning.

Can't blame them for trying - the umpires seemed quite content to let Varitek call balls and strikes, and award himself a base for being nearly hit by a pitch.
   36. Answer Guy Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:08 PM (#3238974)
He's only thrown 15-16 pitches the last two days though so they might go to him in the 9th if circumstances warrant. I'm actually mildly curious to see how they would deal with it if the situation came to pass.


Depends on how much confidence they have in Bard I suppose. Ramirez is also available. They have the travel day (and Baltimore isn't that far away in the grand scheme of things) to rest.
   37. OCD SS Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:17 PM (#3238984)
I'm trying to pretend last night's game didn't exist. At least it's the middle of the season, and Baltimore.


It could be worse, they could've lost a home series to Natstown.
   38. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:21 PM (#3238991)
It could be worse, they could've lost a home series to Natstown.


Another reason why I'm not worried...
   39. Big Train Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:26 PM (#3238993)
Can't blame them for trying - the umpires seemed quite content to let Varitek call balls and strikes, and award himself a base for being nearly hit by a pitch.

Jim Palmer is a bad announcer, and he is usually somewhat evenhanded, but you could hear him stand up he was so disgusted with the strike 2 call on Pie. He evicerated the umpiring around baseball all year. It was brutal.
   40. rLr Is King Of The Romans And Above Grammar Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:31 PM (#3238997)
He's only thrown 15-16 pitches the last two days though so they might go to him in the 9th if circumstances warrant. I'm actually mildly curious to see how they would deal with it if the situation came to pass.

With any luck, he'll spend the ninth sitting in the bullpen, staring blankly (as is his wont), as Chris Ray mops up a 9-2 Baltimore victory.
   41. konaforever Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:33 PM (#3238999)
I laughed, then I cried.
   42. gay guy in cut-offs smoking the objective pipe Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:42 PM (#3239011)
It's strange to see Yankee fans taking the Boston role and Boston fans taking the Yankee role. Seriously, if you picked up a kid from 1995 and read him this thread (well, translated it to rsbb and read it to him) without the team names, what are the odds that he'd get them backwards?
   43. Drew (Primakov, Gungho Iguanas) Posted: July 01, 2009 at 03:47 PM (#3239018)
It's amazing what winning does.
   44. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: July 01, 2009 at 04:13 PM (#3239046)
I think Palmer gets a bad rap. He's obnoxious and arrogant, but he knows his stuff and I appreciate the fact that he's willing to speak his mind. In one of the Nats games the other day he said something like "if Nick Johnson was a horse they'd have shot him at this point." And he just went off on the umpires after the called strike to Pie. It was refreshing IMO.
   45. Big Train Posted: July 01, 2009 at 04:15 PM (#3239048)
Palmer says some dumb things, but he has improved.
   46. Gamingboy Posted: July 01, 2009 at 04:17 PM (#3239057)
I have decided to take a break in my vacation (perhaps the one vacation that ends before the 4th of July and does not start on it) to come here and shout at the top of my lungs:

VICTORY!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait, what's that? The Yankees won and gained a game?
Jeez, I just can't win.
   47. Biff isn't really an apt handle anymore Posted: July 01, 2009 at 04:33 PM (#3239080)
Baseball's a funny game. The best bullpen in the majors gives up 10 runs to blow a huge lead. Oh well, I still think the Red Sox are the best team in baseball.
   48. Phil Coorey, You Won't Posted: July 01, 2009 at 08:19 PM (#3239664)
Order restored!!!

edit - and paps pitched today as well. Remember his save on Monday was barely a pitch or two. Dan Bard was excellent today , especially once the game was tied - as was Ram Ram
   49. konaforever Posted: July 01, 2009 at 08:25 PM (#3239676)
Resteal of a steal!
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