It was Pete Rose, circa the 1970 All-Star game, level bush.

Cervelli fractured wrist...

I don't understand why a catcher can block a plate and a runner can bowl over a catcher. It doesn't add to the game and it can be a source of injury. There is no other analogous situation in baseball.

If it is part of the game, it's pretty hard to tell a rookie not to go all out, exhibition or not.

#### Joe Girardi. If you don't want to play hard in spring training, you might as well have them wear a dress.

#### Joe Girardi. If you don't want to play hard in spring training, you might as well have them wear a dress.

There's a difference between playing hard and playing stupid, but hey, say that to Girardi the next time you see him.

Okay, I didn't see the play, but why is it okay for Cervelli to be blocking the plate in this situation that shouldn't ever involve risking an injury? Was he being a bit dumb in not going for a sweep tag, or is that committing the sin of sins, blaming the victim?

Elliot Johnson is some guy I've never heard of. He probably just wants to impress his manager(s) for a better future.

that's an clever analogy, baudib!--yours? or have you heard it somewhere?

Okay, I didn't see the play, but why is it okay for Cervelli to be blocking the plate in this situation that shouldn't ever involve risking an injury?

Exactly. If you don't want a collision, don't block the plate.

It reminds me of a team losing by 5 runs in the 7th inning complaining about the other team stealing a base. If you think the game is out of reach, stop trying to win. It makes no sense for you to continue to try to win while criticizing the other team for the same.

Oh please. Catchers block the plate all the time, and only moronic pseudo-tough guys, who are out to overcompensate for their psychological insecurities, bowl them over in ST games.

Catchers block the plate all the time, and only moronic pseudo-tough guys, who are out to overcompensate for their psychological insecurities, bowl them over in ST games.

Ah...so the term 'heat of the battle' means nothing in your world, Rich?

If you don't want to get hurt, don't block the plate. A baserunner can't be hurt by some catcher blocking him off the plate?

This sounds way too much like LaRussa-Speak. Girardi might not be that hard to dislike after all.

He wasn't really blocking the plate, though. He received the ball and before he could even turn to look, he got floored.

Johnson could've been safe easily without touching Cervelli.

Ah...so the term 'heat of the battle' means nothing in your world, Rich?

It means a lot...for 162 regular season games and the playoffs.

If ST games are really about the "heat of battle," why does almost every ST game in which the score is tied after 9 innings not go into extra innings? I mean, if coming out on top, and winning at all costs, was the primary goal that it is in the regular season, wouldn't teams find a way to do what is necessary to achieve that extra innings victory, including bringing the requisite number of pitchers?

Wouldn't managers use their regular for longer periods even in nine inning games? But they don't do that because in ST games, preparation > winning.

Clearly, ST games are primarily about more than Ws and Ls.

I missed Girardi's apology to the batter that petulant Joba Chamberlain hit with a pitch because he isn't mature enough to handle giving up a run.

"Clearly, ST games are primarily about more than Ws and Ls."

Sure, they are about fringe guys and prospects trying to get noticed. Basically, spring training games are all about giving individuals a chance to display their talents and ambitions... and that's exactly what this incident demonstrated.

Cervelli is a 22 year-old minor leaguer who has no shot of breaking camp THIS spring. But he's trying to impress Giardi (and others), and part of proving that you're serious about being a major league catcher one day is not being afraid to get hurt. As such, Cervelli would never not block the plate in this situation. Even though whether the run scores is completely immaterial, he has a strong person incentive to show that's he's not afraid to making physical contact with a runner.

Meanwhile, Elliot Johnson is possibly near the end of his professional baseball career. Unless he demonstrates dramatic improvement in the first half of this season, he very likely will be playing in Japan or an independent league next spring. The guy's only shot at making the majors is to try to establish himself as a gritty middle infielder who hustles and isn't afraid to get himself hurt. Hence, knocking over a catcher gives him a chance to display those attributes.

Neither Cervelli or Johnson were thinking about minimizing injury, or the relative insignificance of a spring training game. They're trying to make an impression on people who will decide the future fate of their careers. And unfortunately that means that both have strong personal incentives to be (arguably) reckless--as if two men in their early 20s need any additional reasons to be fearless.

I missed Girardi's apology to the batter that petulant Joba Chamberlain hit with a pitch because he isn't mature enough to handle giving up a run.

You mean in the ST game when Joba couldn't throw a strike and ended up hitting a guy on the foot? That #######!

Neither Cervelli or Johnson were thinking about minimizing injury, or the relative insignificance of a spring training game. They're trying to make an impression on people who will decide the future fate of their careers. And unfortunately that means that both have strong personal incentives to be (arguably) reckless--as if two men in their early 20s need any additional reasons to be fearless.

The difference is that Cervelli was not in a position to inflict injury, while Johnson, otoh, was. He made a conscious decision (as evidenced by his own words) to subject a prone Cervelli to the risk of a serious injury.

to subject a prone Cervelli

You saw the play? How do you know he was prone? It was a ST game. By admission of his own manager, the game meant nothing. He put himself in a position to get injured. Giradi would have done the same thing in the exact same circumstances. This conversation would never have occured if Cervilli had NOT been injured. AAMOF, it would not have occured if Johnson were the one injured on the play. Why? Because he's not a (fill in the blank) Yankee!

Pleeeeeeease.

Several New York writers waited to ask Maddon questions but he hid in his office and sent a team spokesman out to say he wouldn’t answer any questions.

Are New York writers that scary?

I don't have a problem---well, much of a problem--with playing hard in Spring Training, but I thought it was a horseshit play as a baseball play.

It's one thing to go hard on the catcher, but he pretty just lowered his shoulder and plowed into him. Didn't try to knock the ball loose specifically, just tried to go in there and knock the #### out of Cervelli. That's a bunch of crap in Spring Training, it's a bunch of crap in June and it's a bunch of crap in October.

Also in the horseshit department is Maddon hiding in his office and refusing to answer questions. If you're going to encourage your team to go out there and "play hard" you ought to take some of your own advice and own up to it.

Danny, RC and Wok hit all the notes. Johnson was just playing hard, trying to make the team. If Girardi is worried about his catchers getting hurt, then he should instruct them to not block the plate in ST games.

I didn't see the play either but if he is close enough to get bowled over, then he wasn't playing the throw far enough away.

What Girardi is really furious about is his own stupidity in not instructing his catchers to avoid any significant plate collisions and is trying to forestall any second-guessing by coming out immediately on the offensive.

Whether Girardi is right or wrong, he's definitely right.

That is, it's not a manager's job to provide careful, even-handed analysis to the press after one of his players gets hurt. As long as you're within the bounds of reasonable dispute, you should take your guy's side. This goes especially for a new, young manager in a veteran clubhouse.

Tony LaRussa is a master at this. There's a reason he kept his team's loyalty over a decade in Oakland and then a decade in St Louis.

EDIT: dumb

Cervelli/Johnson Video

-Cervelli is definitely blocking the plate
-Johnson comes in low and hard, aiming his shoulder at the ball in Cervelli's glove (that's why he broke his hand)
-looks like a nice hook slide would have gotten him in safely, diving at the ball is pretty stupid

I think it's borderline. In season, it would be just fine. In spring, it's not a directly dirty play because Johnson dives low in a clear attempt to jar the ball loose, but it's not best practices in spring either.

The YES announcers mention that there had been an earlier controversy with the Rays, and that Joe Maddon had said that he wants his guys playing hard in spring just like they would in July. So Johnson is not at fault - it's Maddon who prescribed precisely this kind of play in spring.

Well, you can argue that doing what isn't natural and not playing hard is when you really get hurt.

Johnson was just playing good, hardnose baseball. If Cervelli didn't want a collision, he should have gotten out in front of the plate and tried to sweep tag instead.

Finally, #### happens.

After watching the video, he should have gone with the hook slide. There was plenty of plate open. The collision wasn't just unnecessary; it was poor strategy. I still don't think it was malicious, though.

Looking back over the thread, I think 6-4-3 nailed it. The only thing I'd add is that Maddon has specifically told his players to go hard, and defended Carl Crawford - one of the team's leaders - for an analogous play last week.

The difference is that Cervelli was not in a position to inflict injury

Well, he's not in a position to inflict injury as long as Johnson avoids him. It's a game of chicken, and both guys had very strong incentives not to swerve their tractors out of the way.

Basically, spring training games are all about giving individuals a chance to display their talents and ambitions

Well, 6-4-3, they're about a lot more than that. They're about veterans working on things and getting ready for the regular season, they're about allowing managers to see the talent they have in action and making judgments from that, they're about players learning a new position, they're about young players facing major league competition for the first time.

They're about a lot of things. But the fact of the matter is, they're baseball games and playing baseball can get you hurt from time to time. Blaming Johnson for making a routine play is ridiculous.

Looking back over the thread, I think 6-4-3 nailed it. The only thing I'd add is that Maddon has specifically told his players to go hard, and defended Carl Crawford - one of the team's leaders - for an analogous play last week.

I agree, and I admit to being even more impressed with Cervelli for this play.

It's too bad Cervelli got hurt, but I can't blame Johnson for doing anything he can to make an impression since his bat certainly isn't going to get him to the majors.

There was a brawl in today's game, fwiw.