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Saturday, November 22, 2008

Madden: Hal Steinbrenner takes reins, but News had story last year

Forget Madden tooting his own rusty euphonium or his butchering of smorgasbord...it’s his Mussina - Morris take that’s a dilly.

Right now, that 2014 ballot is shaping up as a shmorgasboard of pitchers, with Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine and John Smoltz all potentially joining Mussina in ‘08 retirement.

Those three are “don’t even have to think about ‘em” slam dunks for first ballot election. Mussina, on the other hand, figures to require a lot of thinking since there are a lot of intangibles about him above and beyond his 270-153 record. For now, and for argument’s sake, I prefer to compare him to Jack Morris, who gets my vote every year but hasn’t been able to muster more than 42% in nine years on the ballot. Coincidentally, they also pitched the two greatest games I ever covered - Mussina’s one-out-from-perfect 13-strikeout gem against the Red Sox at Fenway Park on Sept. 2, 2001, and Morris outdueling Smoltz, 1-0, in 10 innings in Game 7 of the 1991 World Series.

...If the criteria comes down to which pitcher you would want in the seventh game of the World Series, the vote would almost have to be for Morris. Other than the lack of any hardware (which Mussina also shares), Morris’ only detriment is his high ERA. Conceivably, Morris still will be on the ballot, on the outside looking in, when Mussina comes up five years from now. It is interesting food for thought as to how the voters will view them side-by-side.

Repoz Posted: November 22, 2008 at 11:29 PM | 10 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralHistoryHall of FameNY Yankees

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   1. Kyle S at work Posted: November 23, 2008 at 12:05 AM (#3014434)
This would be funnier if it wasn't so likely to be a widely-held view.
   2. SacBunt Posted: November 23, 2008 at 12:18 AM (#3014440)
neither won a Cy Young Award (Morris' best was two third-place finishes, to Mussina's two fourth-places)


Correction.

Mussina's plusses are that every eligible pitcher in history with 100 or more wins than losses has been elected.


Correction.
   3. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 23, 2008 at 12:45 AM (#3014450)
Mussina’s one-out-from-perfect 13-strikeout gem against the Red Sox at Fenway Park on Sept. 2, 2001

That's one-pitch-from-perfect to you, bizzitch.

And it's an official perfect game anyway. The Bible doesn't mention Carl Everett anywhere, which means his single logically didn't exist.
   4. Repoz Posted: November 23, 2008 at 12:54 AM (#3014454)
Francesspool said that one pitch to Everett just might keep Mussina out of the HOF.

(I went to howtomakealetterbombfilledwithnails.com right away!)
   5. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 23, 2008 at 01:11 AM (#3014457)
Carl Mays has one of those pitches on his resume.

Not to mention that crap 2-2 pitch Jim Kaat wasted, while walking Merv Rettenmund in the 7th inning on June 6, 1972. What was that idiot thinking?
   6. salvomania Posted: November 23, 2008 at 09:41 AM (#3014501)
"......If the criteria comes down to which pitcher you would want in the seventh game of the World Series, the vote would almost have to be for Morris."


It's amazing what ONE game will do for someone... Morris was a ho-hum 3-2 with a 3.67 ERA in his six non-1991-Game-7 World Series starts.

Morris was 6-4 with a 4.26 era in 82.1 ip in his 12 non-1991-Game-7 postseason starts.

That's almost as stupid as saying that in a a clutch World Series at-bat you want to see Tom Lawless or Al Weis coming up to the plate.

Each of Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz have better World Series pitching stats than Morris, and I'd rather have one of them in there at their prime than Morris, even though Morris did once pitch that great game.
   7. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: November 23, 2008 at 10:47 AM (#3014510)
The interesting thing with Morris is that this legend of his postseason clutchiness isn't some after-the-fact creation, an interpretation built out of looking back over his career and selectively reading 1991 as the mark of his character. Rather, it was already in the air, and then after game 7 in '91, it became the dominant narrative of Morris' career.

I remember when the Blue Jays picked up Morris for the '92 season. It was the big move for a starter that would put them over the top, even though they already had Guzman and Key. Then Morris went out and repeatedly peed himself on the mound in both playoff series, going 0-3 with an ERA in the 7s. And it had no effect on the narrative. Big Game Jack was already established, and he couldn't ruin it even with one of the worst runs of postseason starts in memory.
   8. jwb Posted: November 23, 2008 at 03:29 PM (#3014580)
The historical levels for starting pitchers in the Hall of Fame (1880-1980) are .57 per team per season. If we apply that standard, both Morris and Mussina easily qualify. If we wish to have a smaller Hall, and raise the standards by say, a third, I think they still do.
   9. Fancy Pants Handle Posted: November 23, 2008 at 10:27 PM (#3014656)
The historical levels for starting pitchers in the Hall of Fame (1880-1980) are .57 per team per season.

Sounds good. Inducting 17 pitchers a year (so, probably like 40 total with position players) should effectively kill the HoF off in less than a decade...
   10. a bebop a rebop Posted: November 23, 2008 at 10:59 PM (#3014666)
That's not the number inducted per year, that's the number playing on any team at any age in a given year. Translates to about 1 HoF pitcher inducted a year for a 30 team league, assuming a 17 year career on average for HoF pitchers.
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