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Sunday, September 14, 2008

Madden: Carlos Delgado has cause enough to be National League MVP over Albert Pujols

WAKE UP, BILL! Your Austin Wylie’s Golden Pheasant Orchestra 78 is skipping! 

There is similar intrigue with the American League MVP race. Before he went down for the season with a wrist injury, the White Sox’s Carlos Quentin appeared to have a lock on the award.Now, with Quentin stuck on 100 RBI and the White Sox desperately trying to hold on to first place, it’s anyone’s guess, although Twins slugger Justin Morneau, who’s been there, won that, is presenting a strong case.

After all, it isn’t easy driving in 120-plus runs when the first two batters in your lineup are Denard Span and Alexi Casilla.

Repoz Posted: September 14, 2008 at 08:00 AM | 19 comment(s)
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   1. Chuck Van Den Corput Posted: September 14, 2008 at 08:33 AM (#2940768)
said Rick Hummel, the national baseball columnist for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, who obviously subscribes to the "best player" interpretation of the award.

If Madden is serious about his definition of valuable then he must be consistent. His ballot (if he has one) must contain ten players from the team that made the playoffs by the smallest margin. If that's the Mets then fine, ten Mets. Pujols better not be on the ballot anywhere if he is not number one, otherwise Madden is betraying his own definition of valuable.
   2. The Clarence Thomas of BTF (scott) Posted: September 14, 2008 at 08:44 AM (#2940770)
Span has an OBP of .393. Casilla is at .341. Joe Mauer has hit 2nd or 3rd all season and is getting on base at a .410 clip. Madden is a ####### joke of a writer and should quit to work the lower stress job of Quikie-Mart attendant. Joe Mauer deserves the MVP, again, and for some reason no one wants to give him credit for being the best backstop in the majors.
   3. AROM Posted: September 14, 2008 at 10:35 AM (#2940799)
Span's minor league numbers were unimpressive so I can see that comment if you haven't looked at his numbers lately. But it's quite easy to pile up ribbies with Span playing like Kenny Lofton.
   4. Kyle S Posted: September 14, 2008 at 10:45 AM (#2940806)
if delgado beats pujols, will that be the worst choice in the history of the award?
   5. Justin Zeth Posted: September 14, 2008 at 10:48 AM (#2940809)
At this point I'm like Joe Sheehan; I'm openly rooting for the writers to make the most stupid award choice possible. So that's Delgado and Rodriguez this year.

if delgado beats pujols, will that be the worst choice in the history of the award?


There have been some spectacularly bad choices over the years, but yes, I believe it will be.

You have to understand, though, that writers make their living by coming up with stories. Thus, by its very nature, the MVP award process is driven by the search for reasons not to give the award to the best player in the league. That would be boring. Everyone already knows Albert Pujols is the best player in the National League; so nobody's going to read a story about how Albert Pujols is the best player in the National League.

And the more complaining the writers hear from those bastard bloggers and stats geeks, the more delight they take in that process.
   6. Kyle S Posted: September 14, 2008 at 10:54 AM (#2940814)
Rodriguez? You mean A-Rod? Who on earth thinks he's the MVP this year.
   7. Justin Zeth Posted: September 14, 2008 at 11:09 AM (#2940822)
No, I meant Francisco, sorry. Alex would be a reasonable MVP.
   8. John DiFool2 Posted: September 14, 2008 at 11:21 AM (#2940830)
Joe Mauer deserves the MVP, again, and for some reason no one wants to give him credit for being the best backstop in the majors.


Who has been a better player than a teammate who won the MVP? There's Mauer of course in '06, Utley maybe last year except for the 30 games he missed, Bret Boone in '01 over Ichiro, perhaps Barry in '00 over Kent. That's just this decade.
   9. Kyle S Posted: September 14, 2008 at 11:21 AM (#2940831)
Francisco? Good lord, I hope you're joking.
   10. Justin Zeth Posted: September 14, 2008 at 11:43 AM (#2940842)
Who has been a better player than a teammate who won the MVP? There's Mauer of course in '06, Utley maybe last year except for the 30 games he missed, Bret Boone in '01 over Ichiro, perhaps Barry in '00 over Kent. That's just this decade.


There's a pattern, too. Morneau racked up RBI because Mauer was constantly on base in front of him. Kent racked up RBI because Bonds was constantly on base in front of him. Ichiro! over Boone... normally Boone wins that award, but Ichiro! was all the rage that year. That was anomalous.
   11. jwb Posted: September 14, 2008 at 12:05 PM (#2940846)
It's not difficult to make an argument that Santana was better than Morneau in 2006 as well.
   12. Justin Zeth Posted: September 14, 2008 at 12:12 PM (#2940850)
Joe Mauer deserves the MVP, again, and for some reason no one wants to give him credit for being the best backstop in the majors.


Chicks writers dig the long ball. As long as the guy hitting said long balls doesn't walk too much. 'Cause then he's a selfish, lazy bastard.
   13. Bob "Jugement" Dernier Posted: September 14, 2008 at 12:18 PM (#2940853)
Who has been a better player than a teammate who won the MVP?

John Valentin over Mo Vaughn in 1995. (What a great year, now somewhat forgotten: Valentin was close to Vaughn in raw hitting numbers, let alone the fact that he played SS instead of 1B.) Mark McGwire, at least, over Eck in 1992 (Win Shares also has Rickey, Mike Bordick, and Terry Steinbach ahead of Eck). Maybe Trammell, Gibson, Lemon, (Whitaker, Petry, and Morris?) over Guillermo Hernandez in 1984 (Win Shares has Hernandez as third on the team behind Trammell and Gibson, tied with Lemon). Grich and Downing over Don Baylor in 1979. Jimmy Wynn and Andy Messersmith over Him Who Must Not Be Named in 1974. Reggie over Vida in 1971, etc.
   14. OCF Posted: September 14, 2008 at 01:21 PM (#2940903)
Who has been a better player than a teammate who won the MVP?

Mickey Mantle, rather than Roger Maris, in 1961, and maybe also 1960.
Tommy Davis, rather than Maury Wills, in 1962 (not that you could possibly have justified Davis over Aaron, Mays, or Robinson).
(Arguably) John Tudor or Ozzie Smith rather than Willie McGee in 1985 (not that you could possibly have justified Tudor over Gooden).
Wade Boggs, rather than Roger Clemens, in 1986. (Compare Clemens/Boggs to Tudor/McGee the previous year. Clemens ERA+ 169, Boggs OPS+ 156, Tudor ERA+ 184, McGee OPS+ 147.)
Will Clark, rather than Kevin Mitchell, in 1989.

Of course, if you're going to argue that someone from a particular team should get the award, you'll have to agree on the story - else you'll split the vote and give the award to someone from another team. See 1954 AL: Doby, Avila, and Lemon had MVP vote shares of .62, .60, and .53, allowing Berra to win the award with a .68 vote share.
   15. Walt Davis Posted: September 14, 2008 at 03:41 PM (#2941045)
Span's minor league numbers were unimpressive

Oh, the notion that Madden has the foggiest idea what Span's minor-league numbers were will have me chuckling all day. :-)
   16. Pirate Joe Posted: September 14, 2008 at 08:05 PM (#2941359)
Who has been a better player than a teammate who won the MVP?

Half point for Dave Parker over Willie Stargell in 1979.
   17. El Hombre 4 MVP (Le Samourai) Posted: September 14, 2008 at 08:17 PM (#2941373)

Who has been a better player than a teammate who won the MVP? There's Mauer of course in '06, Utley maybe last year except for the 30 games he missed, Bret Boone in '01 over Ichiro, perhaps Barry in '00 over Kent. That's just this decade.


Musial over Marty Marion in '44.
   18. The District Attorney Posted: September 14, 2008 at 08:39 PM (#2941400)
I like how even the people writing NYC tabloid headlines -- not exactly the usual place you'd expect to find nuance -- can't fully commit to this ridiculous notion. On Friday, the Newsday headline was that Delgado "has decent shot"; now here, the headline is "has cause enough." What ringing endorsements!
   19. musial6 Posted: September 14, 2008 at 11:43 PM (#2941751)
How ironic that in 2004 and 2006 postseason bound Pujols lost out to players whose clubs failed to qualify...

BBWAA are such hacks.
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