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f you ask me, A-Rod was probably going to have problems with a lot of the writers on the character and sportsmanship issues, but his numbers would be just too overwhelming to deny him election to the Hall.

What is this, a joke? Prior to this there was no chance - none whatsoever - that A-Rod wouldn't be a first-ballot slam dunk >95%-vote Hall of Famer. Nobody seriously thinks/thought that "character and sportsmanship" issues were going to affect his case, right? Tell me this is just one idiot writing, and not reflective of a wider trend.

I agree that A-Rod's in a hell of a lot more trouble now, but come on - the guy's not even retired yet (nowhere NEAR retirement) and we just have no idea where attitudes will have shifted by 2024 or whenever he's eligible.

What a hack. I wonder who is the subject of the blackmail pictures Madden uses to keep his job.

Does he say “no speaka da English” as Sammy Sosa did?

If you want to see Madden's standard of evidence, look above. There doesn't even have to be a rumor of steroids, just something done for reasons Madden is too lazy to try to find.

Madden: A-Rod a total bust when it comes to Baseball Hall of Fame chances

Can I have some of that pot you're smoking?

Can I have some of that pot you're smoking?

It's clearly been dipped in embalming fluid.

When A-Rod gets on the ballot the first time, it will have been at least 22 years since the Ken Caminiti article came out in Sports Illustrated. I think by that time, the attitude towards steroids and the Hall of Fame will have become "grade on a curve" rather than "keep the bums out", especially if there are many more revelations like this one.

We'll get over it.

Oh lordy. I am so tired of outrage. Someone needs to give this guy a pacifier and a cheap toy.

Madden falls into the trap of thinking that because someone can speak English well enough to talk to reporters, he must speak English well enough to give testimony to Congress, where the meaning of one word means a whole lot more than in a sports column.

It seems to me that it almost has to be a smaller deal in 20 years than the cocaine thing from the '80s was by the mid-00s, and that seems like a pretty small thing now. Heck, it was relatively small then, if we look at the post-scandal employment for Bonds vs. Parker, Raines, and Hernandez.

(Full disclosure: I don't think someone snorting cocaine should be any bigger of a deal to anyone else (who doesn't known them and legitimately care about them) than someone consuming an excess of alcohol is.)

Baseball is a great game, except for the people that write about it.

A-Rod was probably going to have problems with a lot of the writers on the. . . sportsmanship issues

I hear he keeps undersized groupers.

Do these guys have editors? "Wreaked" instead of "reeked?" Give me a break.

Oh, and the premise of the column's nonsense, obviously...

Wow, the media is going completely bonkers hey?

Whatever sells the papers i guess...

Athletes do all kinds of weird #### to their bodies to get to where they are. I could not care less.

Do these guys have editors? "Wreaked" instead of "reeked?" Give me a break.

Not to mention he actually said the words "no speaka da english", in writing, in 2009. I know it's "the daily news", but come on.

the stupidity of this column just depresses me.

While Im happy to mock Mr. Madden normally, I think the lesson to take here is that this is likely a pretty common position among writers.

We are really looking down the barrel of perhaps the top 2 on the career HR list not being in the HOF...

Yeah, 'cause the other 102 names are complete nobodies.

Howard Bryant writing for ESPN:

What is unclear is whether the commissioner was specifically aware of the results of the anonymous testing. If Bud Selig did know the individual results, he knew that Bonds' 73 home runs were steroid-tainted, and that in touting Rodriguez to be the player to pass Bonds and restore glory to the home run record, he was willing to replace one steroid-fueled slugger with another, albeit one with a better reputation and nicer smile.

This doesn't follow. Bonds's 2003 test came up clean until (the government claims) more recently, and, moreover, Bonds hit the 73 home runs in 2001, not 2003.

Nothing against Madden, but I don't think he has what it takes to play at this level:

http://jay-mariotti.fanhouse.com/2009/02/07/nothing-to-believe-in-a-fraud-dirty-too/

Even if the Sports Illustrated report is not further substantiated and denied by all the parties involved in baseball, A-Rod - who already had enough character and sincerity issues - has been irrevocably tarnished for life.

So this idiot is saying that even if nothing is ever proven and there is no backup to this one story that ARod is toast. There are no nanny-approved words for this clown.

We are really looking down the barrel of perhaps the top 2 on the career HR list not being in the HOF...

Like I said, in the mid-2020s, our attitude about steroids will probably be different.

Wow, that Mariotti column is really something else. It is hard to believe that a sentient human being is capable of sincerely believing that.

Mariotti:

That year with the Texas Rangers, he led the American League with 47 home runs and a .600 slugging percentage and was named Most Valuable Player, setting him up for a blockbuster $252-million contract with the New York Yankees.

Uhh...

Uhh...

WTF, seriously?

So A-Roid was using steroids in 2003, and possibly for seasons before that. He's tested clean from 2004 on. His numbers sure don't look any different.

So A-Roid was using steroids in 2003, and possibly for seasons before that. He's tested clean from 2004 on. His numbers sure don't look any different.

According to the report, A-Rod was tipped off about a September 2004 test by Gene Orza. And as I pointed out in the first thread, a guy making $25 million a year shouldn't have much trouble getting designer steroids that are undetectable.

When I think of McGwire, Palmeiro, Bonds, Clemens, Giambi, Pettitte, etc., and now A-Rod, the only thing I can think of is "Fuenteovejuna, Todos a Una".

(short summary - Fuenteovejuna is a play by Lope de Vega, in which a political flunky commits a number of abuses against the denizens of the town of Fuenteovejuna. The townspeople kill the flunky, and when the king sends some investigators to find out what happened, were told that the flunky was killed by "Fuenteovejuna". When asked who was "Fuenteovejuna", the townspeople -as agreed previously - said "Todas a Una" - or all of us).

SO in essence, if all of the above are guilty, then everybody is guilty (or at least that's how it's looking right now).

SO in essence, if all of the above are guilty, then everybody is guilty (or at least that's how it's looking right now).

That's a nice story, but only 8.5% were caught. Right or wrong the blame lies with them now, and the lion's share with A-Rod.

Unless youre really suggesting EVERY MLB player used roids... which I dont think you are. Someone was clean and they were comparatively hurt by the cheaters. Tell Sal Fasano "Fuenteovejuna, Todos a Una". Ask him what he thinks.

Wow, that Mariotti column is really something else. It is hard to believe that a sentient human being is capable of sincerely believing that.

It is hard to belive that anyone here considers Mariotti to be a sentient human being.

Does he say “no speaka da English” as Sammy Sosa did?

If you want to see Madden's standard of evidence, look above. There doesn't even have to be a rumor of steroids, just something done for reasons Madden is too lazy to try to find.

Is that what the column said? If so, apparently there are editors, and apparently they do their jobs after publication, because the line now reads, Does he say he doesn't speak English, as Sammy Sosa did?.

It's still enshrined right here at the top of the page.

#29, LOL.

Until now, only A-Rod’s persona wreaked of insincerity, and that wasn’t enough to deny him a place in Cooperstown.

Sincerity. If it's good enough for the Great Pumpkin to base his Halloween itinerary on, it's good enough for Melonhead Madden to base his HoF vote on.

It's the offseason. The Daily News has got some inches to fill, I guess.

But I'll join the chorus. Incredibly lazy, yet predictable.

I'm just looking to conquer Hot topics.

Is that what the column said? If so, apparently there are editors, and apparently they do their jobs after publication, because the line now reads, Does he say he doesn't speak English, as Sammy Sosa did?.

Before the Daily News folds...can some heads roll first?

Starting with Corpse Grinder Madden.

And as I pointed out in the first thread, a guy making $25 million a year shouldn't have much trouble getting designer steroids that are undetectable.

That's kind of a non-sequitur; the high cost of the drugs is in development, not the cost. So unless you think that ARod is actually funding scientific research here, his wealth is irrelevant; any ballplayer can afford to get the same "designer steroids."

Um, what do we do if Rickey Henderson tested positive in 2003, his final season?
They just elected him to the Hall....

Um, what do we do if Rickey Henderson tested positive in 2003, his final season?

He did. For Enzyte.

Wait, wait, wait. You guys are burying the lede here. Take Madden at face value for a moment. What, pray tell, are the character issues with A-Rod? Seriously, I really want to ####### know the answer to this question. Because unless the entire BBWAA knows something the rest of us don't, like A-Rod slaps puppies before drowning them in rucksacks while singing Livin La Vida Loca, this isn't just throwaway material. It's actionable. Not actionable by Alex in a court of law, but it ####### surely is actionable by his employer as an example of gross, gross, redefine-the-#############-word gross incompetence at performing his job duties.

I hate this argument as much as anyone when it comes to Shoeless Joe or Pete Rose, but really: If Ty ############# racebaiting paternicide Cobb can get into the ####### Hall, a guy whose sole 'character issues' can be at worst described as awkwardness and self-indulgence better not be left out. Steve Garvey shooting bullets into every handbag walking around in California is at least ten orders of magnitude worse, and half the ballplayers ever did that. Hell, Willie and the Mick's 'crimes' were worse than this. Seriously, 'sincerity issues'? When on God's green-the-#### Earth has that *ever* mattered to anyone? What does it even ####### mean? Andy Pettitte, that dog-eyed ####, was a million times more insincere in five minutes last year than A-Rod has been his whole career, excepting the possibility of the aforementioned puppy slaughtering being true and it going unmentioned.

Bill Madden, you are a ####### blight on your profession, and you've probably even risen to the level of black mark on humanity as a whole. Maybe just skidmark. You're not Pol Pot, but you're a #### sight worse than A-Rod. Hell, even if he did cheat, at least he cheated to get better at his ####### job. If there's an equivalent of steroids for sportswriters, you should think about juicing. Maybe it's meth or something. That would be good, because then you might OD and I can come to your funeral and tell people I knew all along that you'd turn out like this because you didn't floss as a child and once you took your neighbor's newspaper when they were on vacation. #### you, Bill Madden, you can eat a dick.

Does he say “no speaka da English” as Sammy Sosa did?

Even with the edit, doesn't this strike anyone as old school, overt, colored as inferior racism?

I mean, he was born in NYC.

Wait, wait, wait. You guys are burying the lede here. Take Madden at face value for a moment. What, pray tell, are the character issues with A-Rod? Seriously, I really want to ####### know the answer to this question. Because unless the entire BBWAA knows something the rest of us don't, like A-Rod slaps puppies before drowning them in rucksacks while singing Livin La Vida Loca, this isn't just throwaway material. It's actionable. Not actionable by Alex in a court of law, but it ####### surely is actionable by his employer as an example of gross, gross, redefine-the-#############-word gross incompetence at performing his job duties.

I hate this argument as much as anyone when it comes to Shoeless Joe or Pete Rose, but really: If Ty ############# racebaiting paternicide Cobb can get into the ####### Hall, a guy whose sole 'character issues' can be at worst described as awkwardness and self-indulgence better not be left out. Steve Garvey shooting bullets into every handbag walking around in California is at least ten orders of magnitude worse, and half the ballplayers ever did that. Hell, Willie and the Mick's 'crimes' were worse than this. Seriously, 'sincerity issues'? When on God's green-the-#### Earth has that *ever* mattered to anyone? What does it even ####### mean? Andy Pettitte, that dog-eyed ####, was a million times more insincere in five minutes last year than A-Rod has been his whole career, excepting the possibility of the aforementioned puppy slaughtering being true and it going unmentioned.

Bill Madden, you are a ####### blight on your profession, and you've probably even risen to the level of black mark on humanity as a whole. Maybe just skidmark. You're not Pol Pot, but you're a #### sight worse than A-Rod. Hell, even if he did cheat, at least he cheated to get better at his ####### job. If there's an equivalent of steroids for sportswriters, you should think about juicing. Maybe it's meth or something. That would be good, because then you might OD and I can come to your funeral and tell people I knew all along that you'd turn out like this because you didn't floss as a child and once you took your neighbor's newspaper when they were on vacation. #### you, Bill Madden, you can eat a dick.

Oohhhh . How I've longed for this moment, Madden . The day when I would have the proof I needed to hall you out of your cushy lair and expose to the light of justice as the monster that you are . A monster so vile .....

Jeff K's Mother: JEFF K !!!

Jeff K : There will be a small fine.

What we're missing here, and what hasn't quite settled in yet, is just what the implications of A-Rod using are to the whole "Keep The Hall Clean" debate.

With McGwire and Bonds, you had the record-breaking 'peak' years plus Bonds slugging away well into his 40s. A-Rod, on the other hand, churns out a steady run of homers like Hammerin' Hank himself and allegedly tests positive at the ripe old age of 27. Not to mention that his last alleged fail was at the back end of 2004, and since then he's rattled off seasons of 48, 35, 54, and 35 home runs. This either means that the 'roids weren't of any help or that he's still using and beating the system. Either of which leads to some rather unsettling questions.

Neyer gets it, I just don't expect guys like Madden et al to figure it out any time soon.

A-Rod was probably going to have problems with a lot of the writers on the. . . sportsmanship issues

Forget about taking Madden's children away - he should have never been allowed to have any in the first place.

What we're missing here, and what hasn't quite settled in yet, is just what the implications of A-Rod using are to the whole "Keep The Hall Clean" debate.

To be honest, I only look at the whole "Keep The Hall Clean" debate with bemusement, because I'm reasonably certain that there are players already in the HOF who juiced during their careers.

To be honest, I only look at the whole "Keep The Hall Clean" debate with bemusement, because I'm reasonably certain that there are players already in the HOF who juiced during their careers.

Phil Rizzuto

Phil Rizzuto

He did set a career high in triples at the age of 35 ...

If Ty ############# racebaiting paternicide Cobb can get into the ####### Hall

He's got an alibi for that one. He was with Anniston that night. Agree with the rest. Did you have anything to do with "CAUTION: ZOMBIES AHEAD?"

Not to mention that his last alleged fail was at the back end of 2004, and since then he's rattled off seasons of 48, 35, 54, and 35 home runs.

No, nobody has claimed that ARod failed a 2004 test. The 2004 claim is that Orza tipped him off to a test, not that he had failed.

No, nobody has claimed that ARod failed a 2004 test. The 2004 claim is that Orza tipped him off to a test, not that he had failed.

Same difference. There hasn't been anything tagged on him since then, and since the improved testing began.

So this idiot is saying that even if nothing is ever proven and there is no backup to this one story that ARod is toast. There are no nanny-approved words for this clown.

This is how's it's worked with Clemens and Sosa (even worse for him), why would ARod be any different?

He was with Anniston that night

While she was married to Brad? The tabloid potential of these stories never quits.

Same difference.

Not entirely. Orza may have tipped A-Rod off, and A-Rod may have told him he quit (which would explain his relatively poor 2004 season)

This is how's it's worked with Clemens and Sosa (even worse for him), why would ARod be any different?

Exactly. Hell, Big Mac looks banned from the HOF - and there is far less evidence that he used steroids.


I dont doubt for a second he did use... but he never had a positive steroid test like ARod did. Rumors and allegations have kept him out. It seems likely a positive test in hand could very well keep ARod out.

Oohhhh . How I've longed for this moment, Madden . The day when I would have the proof I needed to hall you out of your cushy lair and expose to the light of justice as the monster that you are . A monster so vile .....

Jeff K's Mother: JEFF K !!!

Jeff K : There will be a small fine.

You have 100% lost me there, Andy.

He's got an alibi for that one. He was with Anniston that night. Agree with the rest. Did you have anything to do with "CAUTION: ZOMBIES AHEAD?"

Oh, I know he didn't do it, but it makes me feel better to accuse others randomly of things. And no, I did not. Hell, you can ask the Lounge, I found out about it a day or two after the first time it happened, when everyone else found out about it. For once a local news promo worked, because hearing "Why is the city still getting warnings of zombie attacks?" and whipping your head around only to see a half-second glimpse of the road sign is a hell of a teaser. This was either the next day or after when it continued and shut down traffic over a good portion of the city. I wouldn't be shocked if one of the kids who works for me had a hand, though.

Now, if you hear on CNN about a guy in Austin going crazy and brandishing weapons while spouting gibberish in the next day or so, that will be me. That will be me "discussing matters" with the towing company that has stolen my car from my apartment complex lot for the second time in three months. Last time I made them bring it back and they gave me $50 for my troubles, this time they claim they took it from the place across the road (funny because its battery is dead and it was in the spot they left it last time), so I demand $200 for prevarication. If they demur, I could see making headlines.

Paternicide is a fairly mild felony these days. It's not a drug crime, so there's no mandatory minimum and there is very little recidivism, so there's virtually no chance he would fall under the three time loser sentencing plan.

Cobb was really with Augusta at the time (he was with Anniston, Alabama the season before) but there's little chance for a double entendre there.

Here's a song for towed car victims.

Towing cars is a slimeball business. Their favorite tactic is to find cars parked illegally on Friday tow them off to some hidden place in the county and then force you to pay for weekend storage fee because they were "closed" for the weekend. What a scam.