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Thursday, October 18, 2007

Manny Ramirez May Or May Not Care About Winning

The link provided above is for the source I found having the most of Ramirez’ locker-side chat with the media yesterday. From his quotes I learned:

1. He still has confidence in the team’s chances on Thursday, and knows that they’re not giving up.

2. He believes the proper approach against the Indians, who are playing good baseball right now, is to play hard.

3. He’d rather be going to the World Series again than to have the postseason HR record.

4. If his team loses tonight, it won’t be the end of the world.

Huh. All I was hearing on the radio this morning was that Manny didn’t care, with only the fourth item above being presented. And I wasn’t listening to Boston stations.

villageidiom Posted: October 18, 2007 at 08:59 AM | 79 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralBostonClevelandMediaRumors

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   1. Hubie Brooks (Not Really)  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 08:51 AM (#2582168)
Omar make it happen this winter. Manny > Alou
   2. chris p  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 08:55 AM (#2582171)
vi, that crowd is just looking for things to hate on manny for.
   3. plim  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 08:56 AM (#2582173)
ok...for a while i was questioning my own fan-hood when i thought manny wasn't off his rocker (for once). but in the context of the entire interview, that makes *a lot* more sense.

and yes, i heard the same 1-liner generalization here in new york...
   4. The Essex Snead  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 08:57 AM (#2582175)
Omar make it happen this winter. Manny > Alou

Unless the Mets are willing to eat Lugo's contract and/or give up Reyes / one of their young turk OFs, I can't see this happening.
   5. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 08:57 AM (#2582177)
I wish Coco Crisp could not care about winning as much as Manny.
   6. Smiling Joe Hesketh  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 08:59 AM (#2582182)
####### A. Another useless shiitstorm over something completely innocuous. Boston stations are going nuts over this. Good God.

The media has blistered Manny in the past for not speaking to him. He spoke to them in the playoffs and for a while they said how interesting it was to hear from him again. Now they completely overreact to something, take it out of context, and flame him to a crisp.

Manny has to know nothing productive can ever come out of talking to them. Nothing at all.
   7. AROM  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:07 AM (#2582196)
Unless the Mets are willing to eat Lugo's contract and/or give up Reyes / one of their young turk OFs, I can't see this happening.


Crazy talk. I don't see why the Mets, or anybody else, should pay 20 million for a 36 year old outfielder who can't field, and you don't have a DH spot to put him in. If he was still hitting .450/.600 then maybe, but a .400/.500 guy doesn't add enough runs to justify both the defense and the contract.
   8. SoSH U at work  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:08 AM (#2582198)
Manny has to know nothing productive can ever come out of talking to them. Nothing at all.


Hell, you should have heard Boggs on the topic. I lost IQ points listening to his idiocy.
   9. Smiling Joe Hesketh  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:13 AM (#2582201)
Boggs accusing another player of being selfish? My irony meter just blew up.
   10. villageidiom  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:14 AM (#2582203)
vi, that crowd is just looking for things to hate on manny for.

I'm aware. They had a sound bite that fit what they wanted to write. I'm just doing my part to call them out.

Tomorrow we'll have all kinds of media members saying, "I never said he doesn't care; I said fans will think he doesn't care. And I was right!" I wonder where they'd get the impression he doesn't care about this series? Could it be the articles suggesting it, then selectively quoting only the parts that support the case?
   11. ellsbury my heart at wounded knee  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:14 AM (#2582206)
Manny has to know nothing productive can ever come out of talking to them. Nothing at all.


God, the media really sucks sometimes. I bet if Manny didn't get crapped on, he would say some of the weirdest, funniest, most crazy/bizarrely insightful stuff you've heard a ballplayer say. I bet he'd be up there leading the league in quotability over replacement player (QORP).
   12. Smiling Joe Hesketh  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:18 AM (#2582211)
I bet if Manny didn't get crapped on, he would say some of the weirdest, funniest, most crazy/bizarrely insightful stuff you've heard a ballplayer say.

The "That's when you know you're a bad man" quote was classic. And it was said in the calmest, most matter-of-fact way possible. It was great.
   13. karlmagnus  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:20 AM (#2582212)
I agree. The Manny personality adds enormously to the baseball experience, and the Boston media have persistently made a habit of pompously taking it at its worst and causing trouble. They're ALL second cousins of the CHB.
   14. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Marching Through Georgia  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:21 AM (#2582213)
Damn, I wish the Yankees had a dozen players with similar postseason attitude problems.

Although you may think that Manny's home run stare is somehow going to make the Indians play even better---doubtful, to say the least---it seems to me that his so-called "attitude" has him in the perfect mental state to continue in the series. Too bad that the Yankees couldn't have had the same creative "high school territorial" rule that the Philadelphia Warriors used to draft Wilt Chamberlain.
   15. Neil Kinnock...Lord Palmerston! (Orinoco)  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:22 AM (#2582215)
This is the first time I heard Manny speak English even though I lived in Boston for a while. (There is a Japanese emperor surrender speech joke here somewhere) I am surprised how good his English is.
   16. Smiling Joe Hesketh  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:23 AM (#2582216)
I wish some of Manny's attitude would rub off on Pedroia, who's having a horrible postseason, is pressing badly, and generally looking like a nervous, overmatched rookie. If Pedroia could calm himself a bit it would only help him.

Mark Bellhorn hit the winning HR in Game 1 of the 2004 World Series. He said afterwards something to the effect of even though he was down in the count 0-2, he just tried to relax and that sometimes your natural talent takes over. It was a really insightful statement. Manny does this all the time.
   17. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Marching Through Georgia  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:27 AM (#2582220)
Mark Bellhorn hit the winning HR in Game 1 of the 2004 World Series. He said afterwards something to the effect of even though he was down in the count 0-2, he just tried to relax and that sometimes your natural talent takes over. It was a really insightful statement. Manny does this all the time.

I have no idea what Manny's overall intelligence level may be, but if they measured IQ on the basis of one's mental approach to hitting, he'd be off the charts.
   18. Craig Calcaterra  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:31 AM (#2582225)
This is the kind of thing you get when you schedule an off day in the middle of a playoff series. Nothing to cover, so you cover nothing.

I am pulling for Cleveland, but I am almost hoping they don't win it tonight. If they do, we'll have, what, five days of no baseball during which idiots will search for more innanity about which to write and spew?
   19. villageidiom  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:31 AM (#2582226)
the Boston media have persistently made a habit of pompously taking it at its worst and causing trouble.

To their credit, the Globe (Amalie Benjiman) and Herald (Rob Bradford) didn't try to spin it the way everyone else has. (Part of that might be the result of beat writers involved.) It's more the national print media, and most electronic media (ESPN, talk radio) that has gone nutty this time.

I remember in 2002 when the Giants lost the WS, and Barry Bonds was quoted as saying to the media crowding around his locker, "You're stepping on my son. Back off or I'll snap." Except that in most media outlets only the second sentence was quoted, and was used as further evidence that Bonds was a jerk. This strikes me the same way.
   20. Gold Star for Robothal  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:32 AM (#2582227)
Reading Alex Cora's quote, I like that the Red Sox players are turning to the Rockies' manager for guidance in their mental approach.
   21. Boots Day  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:35 AM (#2582232)
Although you may think that Manny's home run stare is somehow going to make the Indians play even better---doubtful, to say the least---it seems to me that his so-called "attitude" has him in the perfect mental state to continue in the series.

Joe Buck repeatedly used the loaded word "admire" to describe the way that Manny was watching his home run ball the other night. Buck has no earthly idea what was going through Manny's mind at that moment, so to describe watching the path of a homer as "admiring" it, with its connotations of self-centeredness and boastfulness, is unprofessional, IMO.

50,000 people in that stadium were watching that ball fly through the air; were they all "admiring" it?
   22. Rafael Bellylard has become a Mets fan!  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:52 AM (#2582247)
Manny is always portrayed as some sort of idiot savant whose talents happens to be hitting a baseball very hard. On the rare occasions he speaks, he shows some insight and a good sense of humor. Hell, I think he might be mentally healthier than the rest of us.

I do know that his attitude of "play hard, and if we lose, so be it" is going to create more long-term success than those who go into a depression (either real or for show) after every loss. Personally, I always found those guys who acted like a 9-2 loss in May was slightly worse than death to be idiotic, anyway.
   23. Smiling Joe Hesketh  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:55 AM (#2582251)
BSMW has the perfect headline for this shiitstorm today:

"Media Morons Misrepresent Manny."
   24. billyshears  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:56 AM (#2582254)
Unless the Mets are willing to eat Lugo's contract and/or give up Reyes / one of their young turk OFs, I can't see this happening.


I think the Mets would take Lugo's contract to get Manny. The 3/28 left on Lugo's deal isn't awful and the Mets do need a 2b. If the Mets take Lugo, Boston isn't also going to get significant talent back from the Mets, but I can see them including a B prospect or two. I see no reason for Boston to do that though because there isn't talent available that can replace the lost production, unless the Sox plan on making a play for ARod.
   25. Gaelan  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 09:57 AM (#2582257)
I remember in 2002 when the Giants lost the WS, and Barry Bonds was quoted as saying to the media crowding around his locker, "You're stepping on my son. Back off or I'll snap." Except that in most media outlets only the second sentence was quoted, and was used as further evidence that Bonds was a jerk. This strikes me the same way.


If I was a baseball player and a reporter stepped on my son that reporter would be in the hospital and I'd be looking for a new job.

There is no circle in hell hot enough for sports reporters. There are the lowest rung of scum in respectible society. The head coach from Oklahoma State went easy on that reporter. He should have named her and given out her address. He should have humiliated her the way she makes a living out of humiliating others. I really wish more sports figures would fight back at these souless devils.

It's a damn shame that because of the media we end up knowing nothing about the interesting characters of the sport. Which is deeply ironic since reporters waste so much of their time pursuing human interest stories.
   26. scareduck  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:03 AM (#2582264)
Wasn't this in the Onion?
   27. aleskel  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:04 AM (#2582267)
Media Morons Misrepresent Manny

any fans of the Critic here?

"Yeah, here's a headline for ya - 'Bunny Bites Breslin; Breslin Bleeds Badly'"
   28. Spirit of 82  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:14 AM (#2582273)
Manny does bring some of this onto himself when he appeared to be just as happy with his game 4 HR as he was with his walk-off HR.
   29. Fat Al  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:17 AM (#2582276)
####### A. Another useless shiitstorm over something completely innocuous. Boston stations are going nuts over this. Good God.


Just to play devil's advocate for a second, and far be it from me to defend the Boston media, but it's not like Manny was misquoted or anything. He said in a very relaxed, deadpan way that if they lost it wouldn't be a big deal, and that there's always next year. Now, he did say lots of other things, but he also said that very clearly.

I'll tell you, if Alex Rodriguez had said something like that, it would have been even bigger news here in New York and would have been cited on every radio and television blather show as evidence of his lack of desire, no killer instinct, etc.

Now, I agree with most people here that this is overblown and stupid, and I am a fan of Manny and I like that he is talking to the press and seems sincere when he does so, but the press is the press and this stuff is going to get reported. All quotations are "selective" and lack full context, by definition. And I don't think it's crazy if the immediate reaction of the press and much of the vocal fan base is that they would prefer if one of their top players had a little more fire in the belly and rah-rah going into a do-or-die situation than Manny showed in that interview.
   30. Shredder  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:19 AM (#2582279)
I hope Manny's right, because I'm rooting for the Indians, and it would totally suck if the world ended right after they won.

Then again, I've had a good run. I can't complain.
   31. Smiling Joe Hesketh  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:29 AM (#2582297)
Just to play devil's advocate for a second, and far be it from me to defend the Boston media, but it's not like Manny was misquoted or anything. He said in a very relaxed, deadpan way that if they lost it wouldn't be a big deal, and that there's always next year. Now, he did say lots of other things, but he also said that very clearly.


Sure he did. To then take that out of his larger body of remarks and present it as the ONLY thing he said, while ignoring all the other things he said that indicate quite obviously that he still wants to win and will work hard to do so and doesn't care about personal records, is ridiculously misleading and unfair. I thought the Bonds comparison was spot on.

And if ARod had said the same thing in the same context and gotten slammed for it, it would have been just as much of a character assassination and just as unfair to him.
   32. BFFB  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:32 AM (#2582300)
I still think one of the best ways to judge the level of sportsman intelligence is how boring they are. If I was a famous sportsman I'd give nothing but the most annodyne, dull, cliched, meaningless quotes in the slim hope that the media would just leave me alone.
   33. SoSH U at work  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:37 AM (#2582308)
I think the comparison to the Bonds incident is spot-on for an entirely different reason.
   34. Smiling Joe Hesketh  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:40 AM (#2582311)
And that reason is....?
   35. SoSH U at work  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 10:56 AM (#2582340)
Because posters here, just like the writers at the time, are mischaracterizing what happened. Not intentionally, but mischaracterizing nonetheless.

We had a huge thread after it happened, specifically targeting Bob Klapisch, who appeared to use the full context quote in his original piece, then changed it to the truncated version for one that appeared later. A BPro writer and BTF posters accused Klapisch of all sorts of crimes against Bonds, until Klapisch visited BPro to explain that due to the crush of players around Bonds, he only heard the second part (Back off or I'll snap). When he learned of the full quote, he included it in his story. But the first story he filed for print (the mistaken one), was the second to appear online, making it look like he changed it.

This wasn't a case of Klapisch, and others, trying to make Bonds look bad when they knew that wasn't what happened. He genuinely didn't hear the full context. Just as those who have cited it aren't remembering the full context.

(By the way, I admit there was a certain degree of irresponsibility in the use of the Back off or I'll snap quote without realizing the full context. But it was an honest error, not an intentional manipulation of the events).
   36. Russlan wants Pedro to be a Met again  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 11:07 AM (#2582360)
I remember in 2002 when the Giants lost the WS, and Barry Bonds was quoted as saying to the media crowding around his locker, "You're stepping on my son. Back off or I'll snap."


I remember the 2nd sentence but had no idea of the context. Amazing that he'd be criticized for that.
   37. SugarBear Blanks  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 11:09 AM (#2582365)
I am pulling for Cleveland, but I am almost hoping they don't win it tonight. If they do, we'll have, what, five days of no baseball during which idiots will search for more innanity about which to write and spew?

I have nowhere near the talent to delineate just how inane this five-day gap would be, so I'm not even going to try.
   38. SugarBear Blanks  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 11:11 AM (#2582368)
Buck has no earthly idea what was going through Manny's mind at that moment, so to describe watching the path of a homer as "admiring" it, with its connotations of self-centeredness and boastfulness, is unprofessional, IMO.

Agreed.

But Manny was being self-centered and boastful, no? He was focusing solely on his personal act without regard to any other context.
   39. SugarBear Blanks  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 11:12 AM (#2582370)
50,000 people in that stadium were watching that ball fly through the air; were they all "admiring" it?

Yeah, but the fans are there to watch the game. Manny's there to play it.

I totally concur that Manny's getting a bad rap on the comment.
   40. Spirit of 82  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 11:20 AM (#2582380)
Yeah that weasel Joe Buck sure went out on a limb saying Manny "admired" that HR.

That same weasel who in the first inning of game 1 explained that Manny gets a bad rap for not working hard, that he is actually one of the hardest working hitters in MLB.

He sure is out to get Manny! Baseball players can do no wrong! Broadcasters can do no right!
   41. Robert in Manhattan Beach (nee Redondo)  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 11:22 AM (#2582384)
"It doesn't happen, so who cares? There's always next year. It's not like it's the end of the world."

Count me as one who thinks it's perfectly fine to rip a player for responding to a question about winning in the post-season with "Who cares?"
   42. RayDiPerna  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 11:23 AM (#2582387)
Just to play devil's advocate for a second, and far be it from me to defend the Boston media, but it's not like Manny was misquoted or anything. He said in a very relaxed, deadpan way that if they lost it wouldn't be a big deal, and that there's always next year. Now, he did say lots of other things, but he also said that very clearly.


Yes. And?

And I don't think it's crazy if the immediate reaction of the press and much of the vocal fan base is that they would prefer if one of their top players had a little more fire in the belly and rah-rah going into a do-or-die situation than Manny showed in that interview.


I think the criticism of Ramirez is immature and silly; he's the one acting professionally here.

It would be a mistake to try to change the attitude and approach of a player like this -- which is what the people complaining seem to be wishing for. He made himself into a Hall of Fame player without the help of these people, and he's hitting for a 1.500 OPS in the series without their help, so I think he knows into which trash receptacle to deposit their complaints.
   43. Dewey, Local Boy and Soupuss  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 11:26 AM (#2582391)
It would be a mistake to try to change the attitude and approach of a player like this -- which is what the people complaining seem to be wishing for. He made himself into a Hall of Fame player without the help of these people, and he's hitting for a 1.500 OPS in the series without their help, so I think he knows into which trash receptacle to deposit their complaints.

Agreed - Manny Ramirez seems like the kind of guy who focuses on what he has control over, and doesn't worry unduly about what he can't control.

The Red Sox certainly can't blame him if they don't go to the World Series, and him acting like Paul O'Neill isn't going to improve the situation. I think he's got a pretty good attitude about the whole thing.
   44. Doris from Rego Park  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:07 PM (#2582440)
Rick Reilly on 'Back off or I'll snap'

The next night, Game 7, left Bonds's dream dead at the Ed, and a few hundred reporters had no choice but to go to his locker to ask him about it. He greeted them with, "Back off or I'll snap."

Ohh-kaay.
   45. Boots Day  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:30 PM (#2582468)
He sure is out to get Manny! Baseball players can do no wrong! Broadcasters can do no right!

You must have me confused with someone else. I do much less broadcaster-bashing than a lot of people around here.

I suspect Buck was completely unaware that he was imposing a judgment on Ramirez, but he certainly was. I highly doubt he would ever describe David Ortiz as "admiring" one of his home runs.
   46. phredbird  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:36 PM (#2582476)
There is no circle in hell hot enough for sports reporters. There are the lowest rung of scum in respectible society. The head coach from Oklahoma State went easy on that reporter. He should have named her and given out her address. He should have humiliated her the way she makes a living out of humiliating others. I really wish more sports figures would fight back at these souless devils.


gaelan, i sort of agree that sportswriters are mostly useless, but this is over the top. the reporter actually researched her story carefully, like reporters are supposed to do, and later gave interviews standing by her story, and the coach -- who behaved like a puffed up d-bag -- later backed off some of his comments. he overreacted.
   47. robinred  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:45 PM (#2582492)
Ramirez's styling was a little over-the-op particularly down 7-3. But I took it as his being excited that he and his buddies had hit three straight jacks in a post-season game, and got carried away, not as bagging on the Indians or not caring about the score. I think it would have been reasonable for any Indians fans/players to say "Hey Manny! Scoreboard!" after he did it, though. If I were an Indians infielder, I would have been tempted to do that as Ramirez rounded the bags, I think.

I like Ramirez, and he is good for baseball.
   48. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:47 PM (#2582496)
What I like about this story as a Sox fan is that it diverts some of the attention, and therefore some pressure, away from Beckett and (especially) the sub-Mendoza teammates. And if the posing has the Indians more focused on Manny that the other Sox, that's a good thing, too.
   49. tfbg9  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:48 PM (#2582497)
I have no idea what Manny's overall intelligence level may be, but if they measured IQ on the basis of one's mental approach to hitting, he'd be off the charts.


Except he almost never swings 3-0. If there's men on, but not a bases loaded situation, with two outs, for instance, I think a great hitter like Manny ought to be ready to hack, since the 3-0 might very well be the best hitter's pitch the team will see that inning, and therefore the best chance the team will have of advancing their shot at winning...I don't understand the genius of Manny's approach to 3-0 counts at all. A nitpick, I guess but still...
   50. Josh  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:48 PM (#2582498)
I've never liked the phrase "may or may not." The word "may" implies "may not" when used to signify chance rather than permission. Always annoyed me. Really smart people use it this way, so I may (or may not) be alone.
   51. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 12:50 PM (#2582502)
There is no circle in hell hot enough for sports reporters. There are the lowest rung of scum in respectible society.

No way. That rung is occupied by TV news reporters who shove their mikes in the faces of people who have just lost their loved ones in some horrible accident and ask, "How are you feeling right now?"
   52. The Yankee Clapper  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 01:01 PM (#2582521)
Joe Buck repeatedly used the loaded word "admire" to describe the way that Manny was watching his home run ball the other night. Buck has no earthly idea what was going through Manny's mind at that moment, so to describe watching the path of a homer as "admiring" it, with its connotations of self-centeredness and boastfulness, is unprofessional, IMO.

"Admire" is a fairly neutral and accurate description of Manny's actions. One doesn't need to know another's state of mind to accurately describe their actions. Certainly "admire" is more neutral than "posing", "grandstanding", "styling", or probably even "celebrating", all of which could have have been used. That said, Manny is getting a bit of a bad rap with his comments being taken out of context. But do people here really think this only happens to Manny, or just to sports figures? If removing context makes for a "better" or bigger story, or fits better with the writer's point of view, all too many media members will go with the out of context "quote".
   53. Mark Donelson  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 01:02 PM (#2582523)
The Red Sox certainly can't blame him if they don't go to the World Series, and him acting like Paul O'Neill isn't going to improve the situation.

To update that for the new millennium, shouldn't we change that to "Kevin Youkilis"?

(This post felt a lot better when I thought I knew how to do strike-thru text. Probably wasn't any better, but felt that way.)
   54. Kyle S  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 01:13 PM (#2582540)
So much silliness. If many of y'all aren't bothered by Manny, that's great, but why must everyone else feel the same way? For instance, some of you might hold the position that taking HGH isn't a big deal. Others may disagree. How can having an opinion about something like that be wrong? An opinion, by definition, isn't a fact; it's a feeling, a belief.

Also, Sox fans, if you honestly believe you all wouldn't jump all over A-Rod for saying something like this, no matter what context, many of you are delusional.
   55. Fumbduck Joe Bivens  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 01:29 PM (#2582559)
The atmosphere in Boston is insane. Everything is magnified to the nth degree. Manny hardly ever speaks to the media, and when he does, this is what he tells them. I interpret his remarks as "you people are crazy. Get a grip. We'll do the best we can, and let the chips fall where they may".

Expecting Manny to be a rah-rah kind of guy like Kevin Millar, one who cooperates with the media's crazed approach, is going to leave you disappointed.
   56. villageidiom  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 01:35 PM (#2582564)
I've never liked the phrase "may or may not." The word "may" implies "may not" when used to signify chance rather than permission. Always annoyed me. Really smart people use it this way, so I may (or may not) be alone.

"May or may not" bugs me in its usual context - to convey uncertainty in one point of view - but not so much in this case where we're dealing with two different uncertain points of view. I see your point, though. YMM(OMN)V.

What bugs me are ads telling me I can save "up to 15% or more" on something. But that's neither here nor there.
   57. Shredder  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 01:38 PM (#2582571)
I highly doubt he would ever describe David Ortiz as "admiring" one of his home runs.
You must not have watched the Angels series. I know I would have "admired" a fastball into Ortiz's back.
   58. SoSH U at work  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 01:38 PM (#2582572)
What bugs me are ads telling me I can save "up to 15% or more" on something. But that's neither here nor there.


Whether or not it bugs you doesn't concern me.
   59. villageidiom  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 02:15 PM (#2582615)
Whether or not it bugs you doesn't concern me.

I could care less.
   60. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris?  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 03:50 PM (#2582826)
the reporter actually researched her story carefully, like reporters are supposed to do, and later gave interviews standing by her story

What "story" are you referring to. The one where a reporter alleged that a particular player wasn't tough enough to start as evidenced by the fact that he was eating chicken with his mother. How exactly does a reporter research such a story.

Whatever you think of the coach and his outburst, the "story" he was reacting to was chicken-#### journalism of the highest order. Much like a great deal of the Manny reporting.
   61. Swedish Chef  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 03:58 PM (#2582847)
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2007/04/23/070423fa_fact_mcgrath

I liked this article about Manny in The New Yorker.
   62. larkin4HoF  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 05:31 PM (#2582952)
Sounds to me that what Manny was saying is you try as hard as you can and if you lose you move on and try again next year. I think that is called keeping the world in perspective.
The problem that all the people who are going ballistic over this have is that the next time a real tragedy happens, like a football player being paralysed, or a team plane crashing, or religious fanatics flying airplanes into buildings, they have forfeited their right to say that "this really puts sports in perspective" or "it makes you realize that these are just games".
How do you think they will react if someone asks Manny about this and he says "when I go home, my wife and kids are goinmg to be healthy and still love me, just like I love them-if that changed, then I would consider that to be the end of the world.
   63. walt williams bobblehead  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 05:50 PM (#2582973)
I hope Manny's right, because I'm rooting for the Indians, and it would totally suck if the world ended right after they won.



You know, God won't be very happy if his Rockies lose.
   64. Cowboy Popup  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 05:55 PM (#2582978)
There is no circle in hell hot enough for sports reporters.

Yeah, the one for dictators, pedophiles and mass murderers is way too pleasant for them.
   65. phredbird  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 06:09 PM (#2582993)
What "story" are you referring to. The one where a reporter alleged that a particular player wasn't tough enough to start as evidenced by the fact that he was eating chicken with his mother. How exactly does a reporter research such a story.

Whatever you think of the coach and his outburst, the "story" he was reacting to was chicken-#### journalism of the highest order. Much like a great deal of the Manny reporting.


b.s. ... the coach's tirade was an attempt to belittle her without addressing the substance of her article; the column she wrote explored several areas of the player's performance. you're latching on to the part that bothered everybody so much, and leaving out context.
   66. Fat Al  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 06:17 PM (#2583000)
The problem that all the people who are going ballistic over this have is that the next time a real tragedy happens, like a football player being paralysed, or a team plane crashing, or religious fanatics flying airplanes into buildings, they have forfeited their right to say that "this really puts sports in perspective" or "it makes you realize that these are just games".

How do you think they will react if someone asks Manny about this and he says "when I go home, my wife and kids are goinmg to be healthy and still love me, just like I love them-if that changed, then I would consider that to be the end of the world.


Oh please. I don't really care about what Manny said. I'm not a Red Sox fan and what I wrote above was explicitly intended to be as the "devil's advocate."

However, it's very easy to just dismiss anything anyone says about sports here or elsewhere as insignificant compared to the "real world," and it's exceedingly easy to invoke 9/11 and other tragedies. As I'm sure you understand, none of that is the point. Everyone will concede that Manny loves his family more than the outcome of any baseball game, as I hope and assume we all do.

Okay, now, what were we talking about? Oh yeah, Manny posing when drawing within 4 runs of the Indians and saying that it's not a big deal if they lose the series (do you want to argue that he meant the "end of the world" literally? if so, I agree, it is not the end of the world.) Manny wasn't talking about tragedy in the real world, he was talking about the baseball world. And while it may be healthy in a human sense to minimize the importance of the baseball playoffs and his team's ultimate success this year, I find it sort of funny that people here are indifferent to these comments by the Red Sox' best player. Not my battle, and as I said earlier, I think Manny is great, including in this interview. But I don't blame fans of his team for griping.
   67. villageidiom  Posted: October 18, 2007 at 07:31 PM (#2583094)
Not my battle, and as I said earlier, I think Manny is great, including in this interview. But I don't blame fans of his team for griping.

That's just it, though. Fans are griping because he sounds like he isn't going to play hard and doesn't really care about winning, in no small part because the media has been spinning it that way - despite that he expressed in the same interview that he will be playing hard and that he wants to win. Had his other comments received as much pub, nobody would have gotten bent out of shape; but had that happened it'd be another quiet morning on talk radio, and we can't have that.
   68. The Bones McCoy of THT  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 08:04 AM (#2584128)
Speaking of A-Rod: If he had Manny's mindset in the post season he'd become the next Mr. October. Rodriguez approaches the playoffs as if the fate of the universe is resting on his shoulders. Manny is having fun and realizes that if he loses, he loses .... life goes on.

If A-Rod felt that way he'd be a post season monster.

Best Regards

John
   69. Fumbduck Joe Bivens  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 08:15 AM (#2584144)
If A-Rod felt that way he'd be a post season monster.

That's an another assumption that you can't prove. (We've discussed the other at some length. ;-))
   70. bunyon  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 08:20 AM (#2584148)
Whatever. He should have been running hard even if it was a HR.

As for Jenni Carlson, she's been a chicken #### journalist for a long, long time. Just because someone doesn't have a national rep, doesn't mean they aren't chicken ####. Gundy overreacted, sure, but he wasn't wrong.
   71. SugarBear Blanks  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 08:21 AM (#2584151)
I like Ramirez, and he is good for baseball.

That was great for baseball when he wound up on first on a 395 foot fly ball. A lot to admire there.

It's funny; the obvious retort to the Manny love going on yesterday was that some day he was going to wind up on first after styling and loafing. Even I thought it would take more than a day though.
   72. Fumbduck Joe Bivens  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 08:26 AM (#2584162)
Somehow I think baseball will survive Manny's lack of hustle on that play, and others.

On balance, Manny is very good for baseball.
   73. The Bones McCoy of THT  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 08:29 AM (#2584168)
That's an another assumption that you can't prove. (We've discussed the other at some length. ;-))


The little voices (most of them at any rate) in my head disagree with you. There's always 2-3 who are contrary just to be contrary. The rest of us are thinking of ganging up and teaching them a lesson they won't soon forget.

Is it too much to ask for all of them to be on the same page?

Best Regards

John
   74. SugarBear Blanks  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 08:36 AM (#2584174)
Somehow I think baseball will survive Manny's lack of hustle on that play, and others.

On balance, Manny is very good for baseball.


It would have been nice to see a single on the next AB and a 3-2 Red Sox loss to really set up the issue.

I don't have anything against Manny and it's not as though he's the only guy in the league who'd rather style and primp than run, but that was a pathetic effort.
   75. Fumbduck Joe Bivens  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 09:42 AM (#2584242)
John, the assumption I was talking about was the one that says ARod would be a monster in the post season if he had Manny's approach. You don't know that. That's opinion.
   76. TDF, situational idiot  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 10:11 AM (#2584276)
It's funny; the obvious retort to the Manny love going on yesterday was that some day he was going to wind up on first after styling and loafing.


If by "styling and loafing" you mean "arguing with the ump while the ball was still in play", I agree.

What he did was pretty inexcusable, but there was no "styling" nor "loafing" involved.
   77. The Bones McCoy of THT  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 12:43 PM (#2584445)
John, the assumption I was talking about was the one that says ARod would be a monster in the post season if he had Manny's approach. You don't know that. That's opinion.


Obviously it's opinion. I fully acknowledge that. I just assumed folks would take my comment as just that and not like it was handed down on stone tablets. Since it wasn't a real wordy opinion it might fit on an aspirin tablet in my opinion.

Yup, it's my opinion and it will remain my opinion until my wife tells me otherwise. That's my opinion too.

How 'bout a re-phrase for the sake of the children? In my opinion, were A-Rod as relaxed as Manny Ramirez in October, there's a decent chance that he would see his results improve.

In my opinion.

Now I'm gonna get a hamburger with bacon, cheese, and extra opinion.

Best (in my opinion) Regards

John (Who I am in my opinion)

;-)
   78. Fumbduck Joe Bivens  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 12:53 PM (#2584456)
I think Manny has been seeing better pitches to hit than ARod had. Just an opinion.
   79. The Bones McCoy of THT  Posted: October 19, 2007 at 01:14 PM (#2584474)
And a fine one it is good sir!

Best Regards

John
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