User Comments, Suggestions, or Complaints | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertising
Buy MLB playoff tickets, plus 2011 World Series, 2011 ALCS tickets and NLCS game tickets. We also have Texas Rangers playoff schedule, tickets to Red Sox games and Yankees game tickets. Plus, buy Phillies baseball tickets, Tigers playoff tickets and the biggies like ALDS baseball tickets and 2011 NLDS tickets. |
Demarini, Easton and TPX Baseball Bats
|
AllianceTickets.com has cheap MLB Tickets. Get all your Colorado Rockies Tickets, Seattle Mariners Tickets, San Francisco Giants Tickets and all your favorite baseball tickets here. We also carry cheap Denver Broncos Tickets, Seattle Seahawks Tickets and Denver Nuggets Tickets. |
Page rendered in 2.0744 seconds
40 querie(s) executed
Reader Comments and Retorts
Go to end of page
Statements posted here are those of our readers and do not represent the BaseballThinkFactory. Names are provided by the poster and are not verified. We ask that posters follow our submission policy. Please report any inappropriate comments.
Me!
Zduriencik isn't exactly crap. And how do you know that Ng is more qualified than Zduriencik, or some of the others they were considering, like LaCava?
Will Carroll (who is still never wrong!) put Z #2 in his list of top new GM candidates, right behind Jed Hoyer: Link
David Cameron really likes Z's eye for talent, even though he is the least statistically-minded of the final four GM candidates. And a USSM commenter suggested that the M's with this hire would be looking to follow the scouty Twins (and obviously Brewers) model of franchise-building. Link, SERVER MAY BE FRIED
And I think it's pronounced "Zu-REN-sick".
2.) Kim Ng was nowhere near the most qualified candidate, and in no way shape or form is she "overqualified" for any GM job. She's several years away from being qualified in any traditional sense. And let's be honest: she's a complete cipher to us all. We know little to nothing about her except the fact that she's a woman and she works for the Dodgers. She would have been the worst, most depressing choice of the finalists for the M's job (because it would have smacked of political correctness, given the fact that all the other candidates were demonstrably superior), and I'm glad they didn't cave.
LMAO at the Mariners, again, as usual
OK, this is a super stupid thing to say. Since you admit that she is a cipher to us all, wouldn't it follow that if she got hired, she is in fact qualified, and that her qualifications are factors that we don't have enough information to know, but which became apparent to the Mariners?
I would certainly be more likely to conclude that than to conclude that the Mariners decided to be the first team in baseball history to hire a GM because of "political correctness".
And I hope Kim Ng gets to be a GM someday, but it is true that she isn't overqualified and her lack of a job to this point doesn't mean she's being held under the glass ceiling. I certainly think there are plenty of men with her resume who aren't at her stage in the consideration-for-open-positions department. And we don't know how brilliant she is, just that she's a woman working in a male-dominated profession. I'm eager to see her give it a go, but the sentiment that "she continues to wait" infers that she is a victim of something which I don't believe is there.
Anyway, someone want to tell me some more about LaCava and why he is so well-liked as a GM candidate by some? I can see that hes bounced around a little as a Player Development/Asst GM guy to a few teams. His most recent stint is as a Jay... which isn't all that exciting.
I don't mean this as a critical sort of a question, I don't know enough about him. Someone want to make a case for him to me?
I think it depends on what you want the GM to do, exactly. I would guess the job description is a little different on each team.
I think she is certainly qualified, at least to the same degree that many of the new sabernerd GMs and GM prospects are. But overqualified is a stretch. She is also not coming from a particularly succesful franchise - the Dodgers are OK but they are not a hot property. Nobody looks at that organization and says "I want to bring the Dodgers philosophy to my team."
Wait, WTF? Why?
What happened to Logan White?
Is it really trolling when you call a crappy organization that doesn't care about winning a crappy organization that doesn't care about winning?
If so I the trollingest troll in Trollville when it comes to the Mariners
This is BS.
From the Dodgers website: "She oversees the club’s arbitration efforts, player development and professional scouting departments and manages the day-to-day operations of the baseball department including the medical, clubhouse and team travel divisions."
I don't know what that means. With regards to her responsibilities vs White's
She admitted five years ago to not having a scouting background? That was five years ago.
How do you know it was a token gesture? Just because they don't share your opinion that they should have hired her?
So we know that, AT MOST, she has 5 years of scouting experience now. That really isn't very much for a GM candidate... CERTAINLY not enough to make someone "overqualified" for a such an impossible to get job.
I'd guess that there are dozens of front office personnel with more scouting experience than that, and probably hundreds if you included regional cross-checkers and stuff.
I believe she also worked with the Yankees during their run of championships.
I am of the belief that Ng is qualified to be a GM, but would probably not be among the 5-10 most qualified candidates in baseball. Of course, most of those 5-10 candidates passed the Mariners over. It is great that she was considered, as she should be, but I don't think its a huge injustice that she was passed over.
The idea that Seattle was placating some group by interviewing Ng will be belied by the forthcoming criticism for bypassing her in favor of a "safe" choice.
How do you explain Andruw Jones's contract?
Exactly. Which is unfortunate.
And are there really that many groups out there that see the "need" for a female GM? I can't really say it is some travesty since it is almost impossible to get into the upper reaches of the game for ANYONE without any playing experience, which obviously a female candidate won't have.
1a. Andruw Jones, 1b. Scott Boras, 1c. Ned Coletti, 1d. Frank McCourt, ... 100000000000000000000000. Kim Ng.
Judging how Palin has been treated and how Hillary was treated, it is pretty clear, you have PERFECT; PERFECT, to be a female CEO or top female executive.
You can't be too hot, can't be ugly, but you have to be good looking. You have to show energy, but not too much, otherwise that looks childish, you must not act like a man, but you certainly can't be sexy. You must always laugh at the right time, but you can't giggle, and you most definitely can't be icy.
That being said, Ng is the 1st woman to interview for a GM job, why is it a shock that she was not hired? Do people really seem surprised woman are not 1 for 1 in getting a GM job?
Really? "HUGE surprise?"
I think the media just smoked here and underreported Jack Z. Clearly Jack Z is just as qualified, if not more so, than the others. "Surprises" are almost always due to the fact the media was lazy and underreported the story. This is certainly no real surprise.
Kim Ng seems like a good candidate, but Zduriencik is an excellent one. Pretty much every good player the Brewers have on the team is there because of him.
Yeah, I'm well aware of those hires.
Not to turn this into a political thread, but a couple of my own observations
1) Being a woman isn't an issue to supporters or neutrals, but can be a locus of opposition for opponents.
2) It's not just a male/female issue. Especially on Palin, women were every bit as bad as men.
Almost all BTF threads that are not 100% pure on-field baseball have political undertones if you know the who the players are.
It'll ease up a little after 11/6 or so after two days of post-election posts.
And if you don't, robinred can help you out; he keeps lists!
Were? Try are. I know so many women who feel insulted that McCain thinks he'll draw women votes just by naming a woman.
Yeah, but it is in my powerful, UCLA-trained brain, not written down.
You're on a special list.
It seems that others missed the point and turned this into a political thread.
I agree that women are probably the biggest offenders of the anti-women sentiment, or better described, "she better be PERFECT" sentiment.
Both Hillary and Palin were called/accused of everything I described above. And none of it had anything to do with subtance.
By the same moron(s) that fired Paul DePodesta -- and, yes, hired him, but that was as much an accident as was his firing. The McCourts passing anyone over for a GM job should never be taken as an indicator for that person's fitness for duty.
I do not believe this is true. Ng was responsible for handling Eric Gagne's arbitration in his final year of eligibility, and is basically responsible for negotiating contracts.
#32 --
#44 --
Nonsense. Palin, when Katie Couric asked her a total softball question about what newspapers she read, couldn't name one. She rambled off incoherently when asked about her foreign policy experience and made factually wrong statements about geography. It's not about being perfect, it's about being even remotely qualified. Take her off a teleprompter, and she's a deer in the headlights. Palin has no business running for vice president.
What a drag.
As for the real subject of this thread, I wonder who the Brewers will hire/promote to fill the hole left by Zduriencik's departure. It's clearly a major loss for them.
Any thoughts from Harveys, perhaps?
Totally agree. Palin had an interview with Charlie Gibson - who's a pretty easy interviewer - and looked like an idiot. Couric's a tough interviewer, but Palin didn't do herself any favors.
There have been plenty of female CEOs, and still are.
So's your mom.
Election's only 14 days away, and Game 1 of the Series is tonight.
God Bless America.
This is a bigger issue. The Brewers have had their scouting department raided for 3 years straight now. Eventually, it's going to show. The scouting director does a lot of drafting work, even running the draft past the first round, so this would be the first place it would show up.
Whether or not this lack makes her less qualified is a matter of preference. For example, I favor candidates with evaluation experience; I like candidates with experience in multiple functional areas; and I like candidates who have managed staffs.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
is directly followed by this:
You're all idiots for thinking you know how qualified she is; none of us actually knows. By the way, here's my definitive statement on how qualified she is.
I think, in general, most fans would like their team to hire a GM who has done something of note. Something like "I fought to draft these future stat," "I handled this successful draft," "I helped broker these great trades/signings," or, at the very least, "I'm the right hand man/woman of this widely respected baseball savant." That no one has noted any of these things about Ng suggest that she hasn't got an of them. She may have paid her dues in the front office, but, as a fan, I'd like the person leading the front office to have something more than dues paying on their resume.
Seriously, who reads newspapers today except our grandparents? We get out news *instantly* from the internet. Why pay for yesterday's news printed on dead trees? Plus you can easily get both sides of things on the net instead of the paper's view.
But isn't Ng the contracts person? Either she's involved in the negotiating of such deals and therefore has experience in this area or she's not and she doesn't.
So since it seems to be the general consensus that she's involved in such things, she's got to take some of the hit for Andruw's contract. That is, unless you want to follow the New York model where every bad decision is attributed to a Steinbrenner and every good one is credited to Cashman, after the fact.
I've been having a hard time figuring out what it is that makes me think Ng isn't a great candidate and I think #56 nails it for me. There's just nothing that she can hang her hat on that makes me say "Oh yeah, her. She's good!"
According to Palin, Palin reads them. All of 'em. Any of 'em.
That being said JZ deserved his shot. I wish him all the success. I have serious doubts that the Mariners upper levels of management have a legitimate commitment to doing what is needed. I hope for Jack's sake that I am wrong.
Actually, like many teams - the Dodgers divide this duty. The Assistant GM handles most of the negotiations - but a few of the biggest contracts are handled directly by the GM.
So your either/or does not actually reflect reality. Although I will grant that this lessens the importance of her handling negotiations, it does mean that she has more experience with negotiations with pro players than somebody with a purely scouting background.
-- MWE
But it also doesn't mean she didn't negotiate the Andruw Jones and/or Juan Pierre deals.
Ng seems like a decent candidate, but she honestly doesn't seem that remarkable as far as candidates go. She has worked for two large market franchises which have doled out some whopping albatross contracts (as well as some good ones I'm sure) and she has had a hand in some of those negotiations, although we don't know to what extent and which ones she was involved with. She has not worked in scouting other than managing scouts. She seems to have some managerial skills, although its unclear as to whether they are any better or worse than any number of management personnel in team offices. What, other than being a woman, distinguishes her from any number of other Assistant GMs or other high-level management types, including Jack Zduriencik, Tony LaCava and Jerry DiPoto? None of us can really answer that question.
Wow, who does an overqualified woman have to blow to get a GM job?
Judging how Palin has been treated and how Hillary was treated, it is pretty clear, you have PERFECT; PERFECT, to be a female CEO or top female executive.
You can't be too hot, can't be ugly, but you have to be good looking. You have to show energy, but not too much, otherwise that looks childish, you must not act like a man, but you certainly can't be sexy. You must always laugh at the right time, but you can't giggle, and you most definitely can't be icy.
- beano sounds JUST like my mother and her gf
andd a whole lot of angry bitterness and some swear words and you got it
That being said, Ng is the 1st woman to interview for a GM job, why is it a shock that she was not hired? Do people really seem surprised woman are not 1 for 1 in getting a GM job?
- in an industry which actually has a RULE to ban females from playing on the field
i would be surprised if a female was named GM
- and now HOW many female scouts are there out there?
Zach Posted: October 22, 2008 at 05:04 PM (#2992083)
Judging how Palin has been treated and how Hillary was treated, it is pretty clear, you have PERFECT; PERFECT, to be a female CEO or top female executive.
Not to turn this into a political thread, but a couple of my own observations
1) Being a woman isn't an issue to supporters or neutrals, but can be a locus of opposition for opponents.
- yep
translated from the uppity nig book of putdowns
2) It's not just a male/female issue. Especially on Palin, women were every bit as bad as men.
- also to hillary. and every other female in a position of high power - see janet reno and condi rice too
- my mama calls em - aunt tom
PreservedFish Posted: October 22, 2008 at 03:30 PM (#2991973)
Is Kim Ng overqualified? Until recently she had essentially zero scouting background
- which obviously was REAL important for jon daniels with his extensive experience in all fields of ML operations and andrew friedman, scouting expert with years of management experience, hunh? - oh, they had balls to do the job, forgot that little detail
MM1f Posted: October 22, 2008 at 04:01 PM (#2992014)
And are there really that many groups out there that see the "need" for a female GM? I can't really say it is some travesty since it is almost impossible to get into the upper reaches of the game for ANYONE without any playing experience, which obviously a female candidate won't have.
- saint theo and jon daniels say hello - and if you bothered to check, you would see there are a LOT of other GMs who have no experience as players. but i guess it only matters if they have no balls.
as for a "need" for a female GM, who sees the "need" for a Negro president?
"Kim lead-Ng the Mariners charge"
"Reasons behind Mariners winn-Ng ways are no surprise"
and other crap like that.
To the best of my knowledge, Kim Ng does not have and has not had evaluation responsibilities. My belief is that her current role vis-a-vis pro scouting is management - e.g., assigning coverage.
Whether or not this lack makes her less qualified is a matter of preference. For example, I favor candidates with evaluation experience; I like candidates with experience in multiple functional areas; and I like candidates who have managed staffs.
- fascinating
would you mind posting your comments about the "evaluation experience" of saint theo, jon daniels and andrew friedman AT THE TIME THEY WERE HIRED please?
thank you
Bhaakon Posted: October 22, 2008 at 08:13 PM (#2992205)
I think, in general, most fans would like their team to hire a GM who has done something of note. Something like "I fought to draft these future stat," "I handled this successful draft," "I helped broker these great trades/signings," or, at the very least, "I'm the right hand man/woman of this widely respected baseball savant." That no one has noted any of these things about Ng suggest that she hasn't got an of them. She may have paid her dues in the front office, but, as a fan, I'd like the person leading the front office to have something more than dues paying on their resume.
- fascinating
and please do tell me exactly what of note saint theo, jon daniels and andrew friedman had done BEFORE being hired as GM
or explain exactly what dues they had paid
thank you
- interesting how many different reasons a whole lot of people come up with for explaining why AGAIN that kim ng is STILL not good enough
Actually, since they were considered premium signings for asinine reasons, it DOES mean that Ng was highly unlikely to have those signings as part of her duties.
Again, the Dodgers - like at least some other teams - have the assistant GM handle lower level negotiations, while the larger negotiations are handled by the GM. I doubt that any GM would want to delegate negotiations for a 5 year contract, or for a contract just south of $20 million per, to an assistant. If Colletti did against all history, that's just another reason to fire him, of course. But I somehow doubt that is the case.
I'm not saying that Ng was the most qualified for the Mariners' job. I am saying that while Ng has more contract negotiation experience than somebody coming from a straight scouting background, it is unrealistic to expect ANY Assistant GM to have experience as the negotiator for any large free agent contracts.
I share your doubts, HW. The two top guys do not think they've been responsible for the problems, they think they know how to run it. Too bad they didn't get canned with Bavasi and MacLaren.
All three were promoted from within, meaning they had established working relationships with the people making the hiring decision. Different calculus entirely.
That said, I believe both Epstein and Daniels had scouting responsibilities prior to becoming GMs; for example:
Ng isn't hard to spell.
So what do we think of this Jack guy? Is he gonna turn the M's around or what? He apparently likes offense at every position. Is that gonna play well in Safeco?
Why do people not think the Seattle job is a good one? Don't they have a nice stadium, excellent marketing and a high payroll? What does Armstrong Lincoln do to make the GM job more difficult than it needs to be?
Part of my point was not that GMs have to pay there dues, but specifically that dues paying was insufficient. Take Colletti, for instance. As far as I can tell, the only reason he was consistantly named a top GM candidate, and eventually made a GM, was because he "paid his dues." IIRC, he, like Ng, garnered most of his front office experience on the off-baseball side (PR and contract negotiations, mostly). That situation strikes me as problematic (that, and the fact that a man who built his resume as a contract negotiator has made so many bad signings... but that's another thread). I think it's much easier for a GM w/ excellent baseball evaluation skills to find people to handle the business side of the equation than the other way around, simply because I think good baseball evaluation is the rarest of the skill sets involved.
Fine. So what about Jon Daniels? AFAICT, the only reason he was made a GM was that he was young, and "smart".
streaks on the windows ..
dust bunnys under the desk ..
moldy cheese, in the back of the fridge, in the employee lunch room, for months.
What else?
The water at the meetings is warm, never cold. The coffee is warm, never hot. We never have enough sweet and low and, and, and, she gossips.
Now, if she would just get away from that damn computer once in awhile, I bet she would be a real good 'un.
oh and the Kimchi. what the hell is that $hit ;)
Nobody's ever explained why she IS good enough. baseball chick, what arguments can you offer in Ng's favor?
So's your mom.
Sure, which is why they usually hire someone like Kim Ng to handle that for them. I guess when I think of qualifications for being a GM, being able to handle low level contract negotiations is not one of the first things I want the GM to be competent at. You hire someone to do that for you.
I think her biggest qualification is her managerial skill - that seems to be a huge component of being a GM that overwhelms a lot of candidates. I am sure she is pretty good at this, as she has frequently been mentioned as a future GM, but I cannot say for certain whether she is any better or worse than other candidates.
And that one's working out real nice for the Rangers, isn't it?
The Mariners' hiring decision seems a good one based on sound rationale. The Brewers HAVE, in fact, built a good core of homegrown talent. If that is the Mariners' strategy, their decision seems very reasonable. It is not clear in any way that who had a penis and who had a vagina entered into the decision algorithm. Why should we assume that just because Kim Ng has a vagina, she should get the next GM job?
That isn't what most people are saying. This community, in general, is very supportive of Kim Ng. In fact, about half of the people that have criticized her qualifications have also said that she is probably a reasonable candidate (#s 15,24,26). The thread got spun into the a critical direction because she was called "overqualified," in a comment that was mostly a joke.
I sort of figure anyone who gets an interview is good enough, just maybe not perceived as good as someone else.
is she getting uncomfortably close to the point where, if she isn't offered a gm position soon, she'll never get one?
bbchick, i might be able to send you something to add to your collection, btw.
That's my point, actually. Where were all the criticisms of Daniels was at the time of the hire? Where was all the analysis of his track record? Instead, most praised him for being young, and "smart". And then when he made mistakes, again, young, and "smart" and "he's learning".
I actually like the Mariners' hiring of Zduriencik. WTF did I say gender had a role in the hiring. I actually defended their hiring of Zduriencik.
Why should we assume that just because a Daneils, or a LaCava, or DiPoto are young and "smart", they should get the next GM job?
If that was the standard, any of us could run a team!
I'm not sure anyone is really saying this. The criticisms (at least mine) mainly seemed to be focused on "all of these candidates are generally qualified, but we don't know how much more qualified one is over the other, so the charge that Ng was the victim of sexism is rather overblown."
That's it? That is all you've got? I don't read newspapers, but I keep up on current events and I am more knowledgeable than Katie Couric, I guarantee you that. She didn't even correct Biden when he made a fool of himself.
Factually wrong and a buffoon.
And he can't count.
I agree with you actually. My view is that most of us don't really know who's qualified or not. Ng might not be qualified, then again, she might be.
I'm disagreeing principally with guys like Esoteric, who declared confidently that she was the worst candidate. His views on Ng are actually fairly common on stathead Mariners boards like LL. Most want a young, "smart" guy like LaCava, are really scared of Ng, but will settle, albeit with varying degrees of disappointment, for Zduriencik.
I see. I can see why many fans would gravitate towards candidates with a more "evaluation" background. I think if Ng is really getting more involved in evaluation, that could help her a lot.
I think what this really points out (and I've been guilty of this as well), is that its kinda silly for any of us fans to sit back and speculate as to who might be a good candidate or not since most of us aren't privy to what the candidates do on a day-to-day basis in their current jobs.
When the did a 47-year old become part of the young, smart group? It has been written how personable LaCava is but let's not go overboard. He also didn't get his home town job in Pittsburgh last year, so perhaps there is something lacking...
WTF did this thread become about what you said, as opposed to expressing a point of view on the topic?
Then WTF are you selecting a sentence of what I said, and snarking on it?
Nah, they'd love her because "Ng" is a dream for one-column heds. "Zduriencik" is almost a worst-case scenario, unless William Van Landingham decided to get in the business.
Whether 47 is young or not is a matter of opinion, but I worked with Tony Lacava for three-plus years and can vouch for his intelligence.
Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel: "Brew Crew GM Zdurien-sick of Errors"
But if you don't have that experience, that presumably makes it tougher to be a good negotiator on the big contracts - and that IS an important skill for GMs.
There are many skills that are important for GMs. Negotiation ability is one of them. Player evaluation is another. Managing the non-playing personnel of the organization is another. There are others also, like public relations, etc. Ng has reasonably extensive experience in the first and third, and much less experience in the second. I can understand weighting the second heavier than the other skills - but somebody who is only good at the second is likely to crash and burn as a GM.
That being said - I have no idea if Ng will be a good GM, if she ever gets a chance. I like her, and I'd like to see her get a shot - but I suspect she'll need to get some more varied experience before that happens, if it happens.
You must be Registered and Logged In to post comments.
<< Back to main