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However, Matsuzaka did look good himself. Though I pity poor Red Sox fans because he works awful, awful slow.
We'll be fine.
You'd never know it. Just watched Sportscenter, they showed just about every batter Matsuzaka faced, they didn't show one pitch of Greinke's. Guy comes back from anxiety problems that are so severe he didn't play baseball, and they don't even show one pitch. I know he's not Japanese, but isn't that worth something?
I think it has virtually nothing to do with Greinke not being Japanese, and everything to do with what team he does (or doesn't pitch) for. If Greinke were on the Red Sox and Matsuzaka were on the Royals (no, they could never afford him, but work with me here), then Greinke's comeback would have been the big story of the game.
Yes, I know that.
Clement is slow. Matsuzaka is no Clement.
There is truth to both those ideas, but there is a third layer as well. Daisuke's debut was the first sight of a $100 million dollar investment in a player who has never played in the major leagues being Japanese and playing for a very popular, visible team.
Point taken, though, that the Sox offense is better than KC's, and Greinke owned Ortiz all day.
McNally is still bitter his team got outmaneuvered for one of the best pitchers in baseball and loves to make whine out of sour grapes.
But...Greinke also got into those jams in the first place. He allowed a leadoff hit (often a double) in every inning except the first.
While I'd agree that the coverage might have been more balanced in such an event, I don't think that's quite accurate. If a guy the Royals bid $51 million just to talk to, then another $50 on a contract, was making his big league debut, he would get the lion's share of the attention. But some would have been spread to Boston's version of Greinke. Of course, has its version in own comeback type guy in Lester, so we'll have to see what kind of coverage his return gets. I doubt it equals the Matsuzaka focus.
I don't want to sound like a hater but it's one start. Beckett put up a 1.29 for the Red Sox in his first three starts last year. Whatever your opinion of him, one start shouldn't change your opinion of the guy.
I think he's going to be really good but a tad homer prone. I think he's going to post very good k/9 and k/bb ratios but give up around 1.2-1.3 hr/9.
#1) Matsuzaka has lots of crazy groupies (photo taken by myself before the game)
#2) The main difference between Greinke and Matsuzaka's showings is that the Red Sox have better hitters. The Royals were foiled because guys like Emil F. Brown and Tony Penita were hitting in clutch situations. The Red Sox got a big hit from Manny.
Note to John Buck: You're not really that good at defense (Buck is also responsible for two of the runs)
Matsuzaka is going to be a rollercoaster purely due to the pressure on him. He's a better than average pitcher, but when he fails, everybody is going to knife him big time. He'll be very good on some days, bad on other days, and above average in general.
And the East Coast sports media is always going to have a bias. Duh.
Not that I'd ever move back, but I can understand why it would appeal to some people.
A fountain shot
And for some reason, Esteban German hugged Manny on the field before the game. In a manly way, of course.
And that's a good thing? Haven't you seen "In Cold Blood"?
Funny, because the SI baseball issue stressed how different his mechanics were from the prototypical Clemensish drop 'n drive style.
"drop and drive" isn't prototypical these days. I think that kids have been learning the "tall and falling towards the hitter" method since my high school days and maybe sooner. I think Seaver is the paragon of drop and drive.
Ryan even more so.
Clemens was a great admirer of Seaver's form, and took the chance to learn from him when they were teammates. He used to talk about how when Seaver was in good form, he's get the knee portion of his uniform dirty, and Clemens would try to do the same. You can see a lot of Seaver in Clemens--same body type, same style, similarly great results and longevity.
... except for the first, fifth, and sixth innings.
His fourth inning was the best (striking out the side) and I don't deny a really great game out of Matsuzaka. He is the real deal, so far as we can tell. But "considerably better" is quite an embellishment.
Matsuzka: 7 IP, 6 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 10 K, 1.29 ERA
Greinke: 7 IP, 8 H, 1 ER, 1 BB, 7 K, 1.29 ERA
Considerably better? Forgive me, but I must strongly disagree.
Adjusting for lineup strength, I'm extremely pleased with Zack Greinke's performance (he struck out David Ortiz not once, not twice, but thrice).
I think this is a great day for both BoSox and KC -- Boston's big signing has had a great first day, and it looks as if Greinke can go toe-to-toe with one of the best lineups in the major leagues and come away victorious.
You must have forgotten about the 3 leadoff doubles.
So that DeJesus home run was, what, planned?
Admittedly, I was at work, and could only catch one inning of the game (as a personal Matsuzaka fan and a fantasy Greinke owner, this was a much-anticipated machup). However, in that one inning, both pitchers looked equally nasty. In response to this quote, the one inning I saw started with a double that was misplayed and easily could have been caught. To his credit, Greinke (with a double being allowed DESPITE his pitching, not because of it) got out of it.
I'm relatively new to the discussion portion of this site, so correct me if I'm missing the joke, but you sound like Joe Morgan. If I'm not mistaken (I'm not), Greinke walked one, struck out a batter per inning, gave up one earned run, and then watched his bullpen take the loss. Matsuzaka was the better pitcher today, and I love what I saw, but nothing should be taken away from Zack. He may be one of the stories of the year come September.
How many RBI did Matsuzaka get anyway?
??? Greinke left the game losing by 1 run. He lost the game, not the bullpen.
there seemed to be more of a negative reaction to Ortiz than Ramirez, which is puzzling, since Ramirez is less likeable.
Granted, JD Drew is a punk who deserves boos on principle.
I meant to say his bullpen blew it--putting the game out of reach--not lost, making the contest seem more one-sided to the uninformed (the people just finding out from Sportscenter) than it really was. I also meant to chide his defense behind him, but never got around to that. Good catch though.
Ramirez is less likeable? I don't really see how someone could not like Manny. He's just...weird.
I haven't been a big fan of his public contract negotiations. On the other hand, Ortiz is a nasty beast, but he's got that whole redemption story behind him -- discarded by the Twins, now a great ballplayer -- that makes him likable.
Manny would definately make an all-time team of "lazy players".
But the universe would collapse if Manny and Barry Bonds were teammates.
Or a themed sitcom with Officer Shaq and his new deputy Manny.
Also, I wonder how much Matsuzaka was helped by being able to blow into his hands during the game.
I know I am that the Mets got outmaneuvered. Give Theo his props, Dice-K should been a Met.
The Fastball was around 94mph
The breaking pitches were in the low 80s
Are you guys looking at the same American League as I am?
I was never really a fan of Dice-K's Slider and Curve. They don't break that much. I was always a bigger fan of his forkball and changeup, which break much much more.
I liked the cut fastball and the 2-seamer though. They'll serve him well.
Dice-K's fastball: topped out at 150km/h on the NHK gun, hovered around 144-148.
Dice-K really helped himself out with the 3 fielding plays he made. Turned a strong double play, and showed some hustle off the mound fielding a dribbler.
Still don't know how Tek caught the runner.
Most of them survived Nomar without getting seizures, so they'll be fine.
From my very distant seat, it didn't look like he did. It appeared he got under the tag.
But from someone who watched the game -- was it an out? I assume so, but it just looked like he got under it from my end.
Greinke got all the pub when he was a 20 year old rookie in 2004. He's old news now, and will have to settle for comeback player of the year now.
It MATSUZUKA time now. Not to mention that Greinke is a Royal, and Matsuzuka is a Red Sock.
Even after slow-mo review, it was too close to call but it looked like he was safe.
It didn't look like an out to me - it looked like German got his foot under the tag. It also appeared to me that Lugo was partially blocking the umpire's view. But they only showed the replay a couple of times on NESN and Buddy Bell appeared to make only a nominal protest, so my eyes may have deceived me.
I agree with the sentiment that Greinke was excellent. When was the last time Ortiz struck out three times in a row? If he can keep the anxitey issues under control, he looks to have a good/excellent comeback season.
Re. the league's adjustment to Matsuzaka - he doesn't have nearly as extravagant a windup as did Nomo, so I don't see him deriving a significant initial advantage from hitters' unfamiliarity with his delivery.
Matsuzaka - 26 batters faced, 1 BB, 10 K, 1 HR, 14 balls in play of which 5 went for hits (.357 BABIP).
Greinke - 29 batters faced, 1 BB, 7 K, 0 HR, 21 balls in play of which 8 went for hits (.381 BABIP).
Greinke didn't allow a HR. Matsuzaka got more K's. Greinke faced a much tougher line-up. Both pitchers were unlucky in the number of hits allowed, but Greinke more so.
I'd have to give the edge to Greinke.
And that's a good thing? Haven't you seen "In Cold Blood"?
Couldn't the exact same point have been made, without the condescension, by simply posting:
Is that a good thing? Have you seen "In Cold Blood" ?
Just a thought.
How about saying, "Greinke gave up three leadoff doubles" ? No need to insult the other poster to make your point.
As a Sox fan I'm very pleased with Matsuzaka's outing, but Greinke really impressed me yesterday, particularly in the way he was able to attack the outer edge of the plate against lefties. He looked really, really good. Poor defense let him down some, but Royals fans should be thrilled he's back and apparently very effective again.
At least the hype is based on some evidence and history of dominance at a high level. All this guy has done is totally kick ass in every competitive situation presented to him and do it with poise and professionalism.
Yet, because of the posting fee, salary and surrounding hype, people here and elsewhere have to look for reasons to be unimpressed. 7IP 10K 1BB 1ER doesn't count because it was against the Royals, or because he had a generous strike zone, or because he got a call on a CS. Sheesh!
And this extrapolating a career path from watching one start is, like, Rob Dibble level stupid, as is the assumption that the league will "adjust" and "figure him out;" right 'cause they don't know how to do that in Japan. The game they play over there bears only a passing resemblance to the potent, man-style ball played in the US.
p.s. Greinke also pitched well and had the same generous strike zone.
HR allowed is a big-time peripheral. Greinke won that one.
Matsuzuka allowed more HR than Greinke. I'm sure that was an honest ommission on your part but should have been noted in a comparison of each pitchers' relative effectiveness.
Would it be possible for you to include the quality of the opposition line-up in your analysis. That might possibly lead to more useful/accurate conclusions.
8 hits/4 doubles<<<<<<< 6 hits/1 HR.
7 K's <<< 10 K's.
101/64 <<<<< 108/74.
These are not negotiable points, they are indisputable. I think you need to work on your math a little.
More useful like how? Like trying to sabermetrically finesse a loss into a win for Greinke? What, you think this is golf or something? You think they allow Greinke to use a handicap?
Let me put an extra color or two into your paintbox for you. The only numbers that really count are wins and losses. All the other numbers are BS if they don't lead to more wins and less losses for you. If you lose, all of the good work you did goes for nothing. Greinke allowed the leadoff man to reach base in every inning but one. He was lucky he only gave up 1 earned run. IF this were June, he would have had his head handed to him and been out of the game by the third inning. How's that for a useful conclusion?
---
Gil Meche, vs. Red Sox (Game 1): 7.1 IP, 1 ER, 6 H, 1 BB, 6 K = 1.23 ERA
Zack Greinke, vs. Red Sox (Game 3): 7.0 IP, 1 ER, 8 H, 1 BB, 7 K = 1.29 ERA
Jumping to conclusions (and assuming Greinke + Meche are real, two dubious claims at best), I'd say the Royals are about two good starters short of a strong rotation, and Luke Hochevar (probably due up sometime this year) might be one of those two. A first-round draft pick this year might be another.
For the first time in a very long time (ever?), I'm excited about Royals pitching.
You're not used to disagreeing with Kevin are you?
I'll take D-mat because of the Ks, but Greinke was right behind him IMO and yes, Greinke deserves a bonus for having to face two of the three best hitters in the league while D-Mats toughest out was (apparently) DeJesus.
There's a lot of "if's" in there, Garth, but I'm inclined to agree with you.
Has Hochevar pitched yet this year?
Oh, I get it now, kwarren. Greinke was clearly better because he was unluckier than Matsusaka. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Tell me, what was Greinke's Luck-ERA last year? I guess you are expecting a rebound in his luck factor, I suppose.
Gil Meche > Curt Schilling?
_~--,-~>?> (david cone?)
That's a typical "Kevin" conclusion, if you catch my drift.
Who is this Kevin guy anyway? He apparently thinks that pitchers are responsible for winning games. I think that he really believes that if Matsuzuka and Greinke were to trade sides yesterday, Matsuzuka would have led the Royals to a victory.
And that hits allowed on balls in play are a result of pitching skill? And HR allowed are not part of a pitchers' peripheral stats. Must be an interesting little world he lives in.
A lurker mostly. Every now and then he'll post something.
Yeah, kwarren. That .691 winning % that Pedro has? I'm now beginning to see the light, thanks to you. I don't know how I could have thought that he might have something do with such an outstanding record. Clearly, it was due to the outstanding play of Troy O'Leary and Darren Lewis.
Thanks :-)
Don't think so. Seaver has the knees to prove it.
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