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Monday, November 09, 2009

Maury Allen: Are we now going to start rewarding steroid cheats?

Hey…you rewarded Maury Wills with being the 58th Best Player In Baseball History (gurgle).

Mark McGwire was a fraud when he broke the Maris record of 61 with his 70 homers and Barry Bonds was a bigger fraud when he passed McGwire with 73 and Hank Aaron’s career mark with his 762 total.

The new home run record breakers were helped by steroids or performance-enhancing drugs, convicted or admitted or not.

I was a kid reporter at Sports Illustrated in 1961 and accepted the romance of the game. I am a grizzled observer now, still suspicious of exceptional baseball feats.

The Yankees won their 27th World Series last week with two admitted drug abusers, Alex Rodriguez and Andy Pettitte, in their winning lineup. Hideki Matsui was the hero of the final game with a home run and a record-tying six RBIs in the final contest.

There has never been a hint of cheating about him.

I will not vote for ARod for Hall of Fame honors when his name comes up five years after he quits. He cheated his way to fame. Despite an enviable record, especially in the post-season, Pettitte cannot be considered a serious Hall of Fame candidate.

McGwire’s case is back up front again. He will not get my vote, either.

Repoz Posted: November 09, 2009 at 02:38 PM | 28 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
  Related News: GeneralHistoryHall of FameSteroids

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   1. Dan The Mediocre Posted: November 09, 2009 at 02:51 PM (#3382836)
I was a kid reporter at Sports Illustrated in 1961 and accepted the romance of the game.


Well there's your problem.
   2. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:00 PM (#3382850)
Dan, you and your Axis of Apologia have got a free pass on this one. One Maris thread a week is pretty much my limit, and anyway, neither of us has anything new to say on this subject.
   3. Dock Ellis on Acid Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:01 PM (#3382852)
I will not vote for ARod for Hall of Fame honors when his name comes up five years after he quits.


Worry not, Maury. You'll probably be dead by the time Alex Rodriguez is eligible for the Hall of Fame.
   4. Cris E Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:04 PM (#3382857)
Wasn't 1961 the year of Norm Cash's romantic, sepia-toned career outlier, the corked bat fueled .361 home run barrage? Ah, the sweet memories of youth's first love.
   5. Vaux, A.B.D. Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:08 PM (#3382861)
There's a lot of good sarcasm on the site this morning.
   6. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:11 PM (#3382864)
Are we now going to start rewarding steroid cheats?


With multi-million dollar contracts, endorsements and star treatment? Absolutely!

With admittance into a made-up club, run by crotchety white men & headquartered in a small NY town? No, no, heavens, no...that would be terrible.
   7. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:12 PM (#3382866)
Did you vote for Hank Aaron or Mike Schmidt?
   8. The elusive Robert Denby Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:16 PM (#3382875)
McGwire’s case is back up front again. He will not get my vote, either.

"And god help him if he steps foot on my lawn!"
   9. Dunn Deal Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:21 PM (#3382877)
I'm sure he'd vote for Mattingly if Donnie Baseball would just shave those sideburns.
   10. JohnQ Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:22 PM (#3382881)
Maury Allen is a joke, he's the same guy that ranked George Foster & Jim Rice as two of the top 100 players in baseball history.

I wonder if Allen voted for Whitey Ford for the HOF and if he ever had a problem with his admitted cheating by scuffing the ball with his wedding ring.
   11. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:33 PM (#3382888)
With admittance into a made-up club, run by crotchety white men & headquartered in a small NY town?


Not to quibble about anything else you said, but I think Joe Morgan is on the current board of directors, along with some broad.
   12. Non-Youkilidian Geometry Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:43 PM (#3382900)
With admittance into a made-up club, run by crotchety white men & headquartered in a small NY town?


Not to quibble about anything else you said, but I think Joe Morgan is on the current board of directors, along with some broad.


Joe may not be white, but he's certainly crotchety.
   13. Gern Blanston Posted: November 09, 2009 at 03:52 PM (#3382911)
Maury Allen is a joke, he's the same guy that ranked George Foster & Jim Rice as two of the top 100 players in baseball history.

Better those two than Mark Belanger. (Yes, Allen's book's almost 30 years old, but that still doesn't remotely justify Belanger; Belanger's probably never been one of the 2,000 best players in history. With Foster and Rice, you get the feeling he was assuming a lot of future performance that didn't come to pass. Not that this justifies including them.)

He also left Shoeless Joe Jackson out of the top 100 (and we know it wasn't an oversight, 'cause he gave him an honorable mention).
   14. ess eff Posted: November 09, 2009 at 04:01 PM (#3382921)
Not to quibble about anything else you said, but I think Joe Morgan is on the current board of directors, along with some broad.


F-Robby, too.
   15. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: November 09, 2009 at 04:05 PM (#3382928)
I wonder if this columnist is able to see both sides of the issue, and can do an adequate job breaking it down for us without hyper-partisan snark:

when his name comes up five years after he quits.


No, no he isn't.
   16. Gern Blanston Posted: November 09, 2009 at 04:06 PM (#3382930)
F-Robby's been crotchety even longer than Morgan.
   17. Gern Blanston Posted: November 09, 2009 at 04:07 PM (#3382933)
No, no he isn't.

I'd be disgusted by the notion too, except at this point my default assumption is that if a guy's (1) a sportswriter with a paying gig and (2) a sanctimonious gasbag, he has a HOF vote.
   18. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: November 09, 2009 at 04:14 PM (#3382943)
I guess what I'm getting at is that you don't build support for your philosophy by sticking the knife in the opposition like that, particularly if you go out of your way to make your every word into partisan snark.

I like Barney Frank, and I enjoy some of his quips. But he has a way of twisting the knife into the Republican minority at every opportunity. And while it certainly raises my interest level towards his quotes, I don't think anyone who walked into a conversation with Barney Frank was convinced of his point of view by the end. It's alienating and dismissive towards those who disagree, and it polarizes people who lean one way or the other.

At some point it becomes more about advocacy than journalism, and Allen is preaching to those who have already made up their minds on the issue. Then it becomes a Glenn Beck-like race to be the most outrageous voice on that side of an issue.
   19. Harmon "Thread Killer" Microbrew Posted: November 09, 2009 at 04:31 PM (#3382966)
To clarify, the crotchety white guys I had in mind are the BBWAA.

Potential quibbles include: there is at least one woman among them, they're not all white (just the vast majority) and they now include non-crotchety folks like Neyer & Law.
   20. sunnyday2 Posted: November 09, 2009 at 04:36 PM (#3382974)
Still, can you come up with a better class of people than journalists--by whom I mean, sports journalists--to pass judgement on their fellow men?

Well, I suppose you could probably come up with one candidate--by which I mean the classification, ANYBODY.
   21. TomH Posted: November 09, 2009 at 04:48 PM (#3382995)
Maury Allen is a joke, he's the same guy that ranked George Foster & Jim Rice as two of the top 100 players in baseball history.

To be fair, Maury wrote his book without a lot of knowledge that came along later. Were you smart enough if you were in 1969 to write a better book? Did asome other lsit come out in that era that was better than Allen's? B James admitted he agreed more with Maury than Ritter&Honig;'s list or Palmer's TPR. And which is sillier, Rice in the top 100 or Biggio in the top 40 (snark), a la James?

I completely disagree with Allen's steroid take, but that is a different KIND of argument than who-was-better-than-who

Belanger's probably never been one of the 2,000 best players in history.

I assume this is hyperbole; else, it's as silly as Mark being in the top 100. The man had 160 some win shares, and win shares underrates his defense. You can find 2000 guys with more???
   22. Greg Goosen at 30 Posted: November 09, 2009 at 06:21 PM (#3383160)
I can't get on Allen for saying he vote won't for a cheater. I tend to go hot and cold on this issue. Sometimes I get high and mighty like Allen, Plaschke, Lupica etc. Other times I think we are just entering a brave new world of genetic manipulations that will make this look tame.

It's been years since I read Allen's "Top 100" book but didn't he name Willie Mays #1 and Hank Aaron #2? How many of his contemporaries would have named Babe Ruth. But there were some real idiosyncratic choices, like Mel Harder. But Allen got of his information on oldtimers from covering Casey Stengel's Mets and Harder was the pitching coach.
   23. Gonfalon Bubble Posted: November 09, 2009 at 06:36 PM (#3383185)
I wonder if Allen voted for Whitey Ford for the HOF and if he ever had a problem with his admitted cheating by scuffing the ball with his wedding ring.

Come on, now. That wasn't poor sportsmanship... it was roguish!
   24. Eric J is Financed by a Rich Grandpa Posted: November 09, 2009 at 06:59 PM (#3383219)
And which is sillier, Rice in the top 100 or Biggio in the top 40 (snark), a la James?

AROM ranks Biggio 74th among position players, Rice 257th. Which would indicate that Rice in the top 100 is sillier.
   25. RMc's grumbling has gone far enough Posted: November 09, 2009 at 08:05 PM (#3383307)
Are we now going to start rewarding steroid cheats?

Start rewarding them?
   26. Blackadder Posted: November 09, 2009 at 08:09 PM (#3383311)
Belanger is 401'st in baseball history according to AROM's WAR. The salient point is that his system thinks Belanger was fully deserving of his defensive reputation; if you doubt that, for whatever reason, he obviously drops much lower.
   27. RMc's grumbling has gone far enough Posted: November 09, 2009 at 08:15 PM (#3383321)
Link for above.

And Belanger is 241st among players who retired before 1983.
   28. Greg Goosen at 30 Posted: November 09, 2009 at 08:23 PM (#3383336)
Allen mainly named Belanger to make a point on how important defense is to winning. Which is probably the wrong way to do it but statistics to measure defense were very scarce in 1980.
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