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Monday, September 08, 2008

Metro: deMause: Patriotism on the baseball diamond

Damn…looks like Challenger will just stay home and tear the flesh off some unsuspecting sea otters.

This Thursday, all Major League Baseball teams will take the field wearing specially designed “Stars and Stripes” caps, part of the league’s Welcome Back Veterans initiative. (Barring rainouts, the Yankees and Mets won’t take part, as they’re off that day.) Following the games, the caps will be auctioned to raise money for veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.

There’s nothing wrong with helping veterans — no matter how you feel about America’s current wars, those returning from battle are in undeniable need of help — but doing so on September 11 turns a simple charity event into a troubling political statement. In past years, New York’s teams donned NYPD and FDNY caps to remember the 2,974 people who died that day (most of them in fact ordinary citizens who happened to be at the World Trade Center, not uniformed personnel), and call attention to the ongoing needs of first responders. By choosing instead to make the day about the wars that the U.S launched in the wake of 9/11, baseball is casting its lot with those who say the proper response to tragedy is to retaliate — and delivering a slap in the face to 9/11 family groups like Peaceful Tomorrows that are working to use the shared grief of victims of war and terror to build bridges to international understanding.

Repoz Posted: September 08, 2008 at 09:39 AM | 3154 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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   701. thread killer Posted: September 12, 2008 at 08:55 PM (#2939722)
That article is why I really have low expectations of Obama winning. I went to a Raider game and pretty much heard alot of the same thing by a group of fans whose background was from the Mid-west. Nice to see that change is sooo bad. Might as well continue on the same old course because it is working so well and hope I die before the bills come due.
   702. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: September 12, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2939723)
Ray,

That last post of yours (#713) shows a healthy sign of openmindedness. The bottom line of all this back and forth nitpicking is whether she (or any of the other three candidates) have the basic temperamental qualifications to be president:

1. Knowledge and understanding of issues, and a demonstrated intellectual curiosity.

2. Judgement ruled by facts rather than superimposed by ideology---not that you can't have an ideological (or ethical / religious) framework to guide you, but that you have to recognize the round peg / square hole problem when it's staring you straight in the face.

3. The ability to work with others with whom you disagree, both on the domestic and international scenes.

3. The tendency to keep your word.

4. The tendency not to deal in personal attacks, or misrepresent your opponent's POV in order to score a rhetorical point.

5. The ability to admit a mistake before it's become impossible not to.

These are not ideologically based standards, and it's pretty basic stuff that doesn't require any particularly saintly qualities to adhere to.

We'll see what she's made of by how she (and the others) holds to these standards over the next seven weeks.
   703. zenbitz Posted: September 12, 2008 at 08:57 PM (#2939726)
My favorite example from where my parents now live: Obama might just be a "gay Muslim racist who refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance."


Oh, I wouldn't worry about that story - it's just Ohio, hardly a swing state.
   704. Backlasher Posted: September 12, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2939729)
so you can call me racist...is that how it works

That's exactly how it works. You have people that post and think they are reasonable and moderate and those that disagree with them, they get to insult. If insults come back, then they expect to have those people kicked off.
   705. Kyle S at work Posted: September 12, 2008 at 08:58 PM (#2939730)
I'm not confident enough in my ability to predict the future to articulate a specific scenario that scares me. In general terms, having a foreign policy ingenue behind the wheel of our country at a time when it's held in low regard by most of the rest of the world seems like a bad idea. I'm worried about the black swan.
   706. zenbitz Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2939732)
What exactly is it that she's going to do?(**) Nuke Russia?


Wow, that hit close to home.
   707. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:02 PM (#2939734)
Andy:

1, 2, one of the 3s, yes. I'm not sure what the other 3, 4, or 5 have to do with qualifications to be president. We may aesthetically prefer a president who doesn't engage in personal attacks, but I don't see what that has to do with whether someone can do a good job as president. (I guess whether "5" is relevant depends on whether by "admit a mistake" you mean admitting it to the public or whether you mean admitting it to yourself and being willing to change course. The former is, again, an aesthetic issue; the latter is crucial.)
   708. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:03 PM (#2939736)
There have been some very poor presidential performances in the past 40 years -- I'd pick 1979-80 as the most concentrated collection, but that's obviously a matter of taste -- yet the country continues to hum along. What exactly is it that she's going to do?(**) Nuke Russia? What is she going to fail to do?

I don't understand this attitude at all. The last eight years have been a disaster for this country. We invaded another country based on false premises, and are still stuck there 5 years later. The economy stinks. The federal government is in shambles. 75-80% of this country thinks it's on the wrong track. I see no reason to think McCain and Palin will be any better than Bush and Cheney, and 4 more years of that same sort of leadership will leave the country in an enormous hole. From what we know about her -- and, again, that's very, very little -- Palin in particular seems like an even worse version of Bush: overconfident, anti-intellectual, stubborn, incurious. Can the US recover? Of course, but a McCain and/or Palin admin. would leave us in a deep, deep hole.

The Palin pick, at bottom, shows that the GOP and McCain do not care at all about governance. They care only about winning, and what happens after they win is relatively unimportant. To them, politics is pure sports: they simply want their team to beat the other guys.
   709. Kyle S at work Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:05 PM (#2939737)
Also, I guess, the post-9/11 world seems a lot more dangerous than the 1991-2000 period that came before it, simply because we left a world where we knew that in theory terrorists could plan and execute attacks of great destruction and entered one in which they had done so.

The ultimate nightmare scenario remains the same: a nuclear bomb goes off in Washington DC and no one claims responsibility for it. Do I think that would happen under a McCain or Palin presidency? No, but I think we as a country get incrementally closer to that possibility than we would with Obama at the helm. In my worldview, then, worrying about the fact that I might pay (significantly) more tax when I start making over $250k doesn't come even close to a voting decision for me, even if I think that such tax policies are bad for the country's economy.
   710. Dr. I likes his panda steak medium rare Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:06 PM (#2939738)
By the way, I think that in many ways the article I posted is a hack job. I mean, the reporter basically walked into town and picked out the guys with the most flags in their yard and the creepy bald eagle statue. And the narrative is pretty strange. I mean, this guy who is being interviewed is all worldly, but his neighbors seem to believe these crazy rumors. These people he has known for years (and is now throwing under the bus) are maybe convincing him that Obama does hate America.

So it is a pretty crappy article. But I enjoy it, because it doesn't require any effort at all to see it as unintended comedy.
   711. Gern Blanston Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:07 PM (#2939740)
But if you believe that he assumed she knew what it meant, asking her to define it makes perfect sense.

Of course, if he didn't assume that (and I think it's pretty clear he did assume that, in spite of the ongoing back and forth in this thread on the subject), he'd be accused of condescending to her, and thinking that she wasn't prepared to answer those hardball foreign relations questions. Because of sexism, of course, because, really, what else could it possibly be?
   712. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:07 PM (#2939741)
To them, politics is pure sports: they simply want their team to beat the other guys
you sure you aren't talking about the Clintons?
   713. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:11 PM (#2939743)
The economy stinks.

If you think the current economy stinks when compared to 79-80, you are misinformed.

To them, politics is pure sports: they simply want their team to beat the other guys.

If you think this only applies to "them" I can understand your confusion as to the economy. After all, how many seven year-olds really understand macro-economics.
   714. Yeaarrgghhhh Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:13 PM (#2939744)
Do any of the McCain supporters in this thread have a problem with Palin's comments about the Bridge to Nowhere? Or McCain's comment that she probably knows as much about energy as anyone in the country? Or McCain's comment Alaska hasn't asked for earmarks while she's been governor?
   715. Gern Blanston Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:14 PM (#2939745)
I'd also like to point out that no where, no where have I ever attacked Osama personally. not once.

This is the most hilarious Freudian slip in the history of hilarious Freudian slips. (Unless you intended to type "Osama," in which case your post is self-refuting.)
   716. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:15 PM (#2939746)
Bads85 apologies. I went back and I saw it wasn't you who called me a racist. It was Tribe08.
   717. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:15 PM (#2939747)
Andy:

3. The tendency to keep your word.

1, 2, one of the 3s, yes. I'm not sure what the other 3, 4, or 5 have to do with qualifications to be president.


I don't get the two part reference to # 3 here.

4. The tendency not to deal in personal attacks, or misrepresent your opponent's POV in order to score a rhetorical point.

We may aesthetically prefer a president who doesn't engage in personal attacks, but I don't see what that has to do with whether someone can do a good job as president.

It's not necessarily fatal, but it makes it a lot harder to do your job when your poll numbers start slipping and people remember what you were like when you could "afford" to be gratuitous, and wash their hands of you. Not to mention that it's not an admirable character trait in general.

5. The ability to admit a mistake before it's become impossible not to.

(I guess whether "5" is relevant depends on whether by "admit a mistake" you mean admitting it to the public or whether you mean admitting it to yourself and being willing to change course. The former is, again, an aesthetic issue; the latter is crucial.)

I agree that the second part is far more important, but there are times when the first part is also crucial. One example that comes to mind: Kennedy's almost immediate willingness to shoulder the blame for the Bay of Pigs fiasco was an early sign that he had the sort of qualities needed to be a good president---one's ideological differences with him aside.
   718. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2939748)
Do any of the McCain supporters in this thread have a problem with Palin's comments about the Bridge to Nowhere? Or McCain's comment that she probably knows as much about energy as anyone in the country? Or McCain's comment Alaska hasn't asked for earmarks while she's been governor?

Does any supporter of any politician ever have a problem with that politician lying? It's only the other side's lies that matter, right?
   719. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:16 PM (#2939749)
This is the most hilarious Freudian slip in the history of hilarious Freudian slips.


oops. Hey it happens, it happens to lots of people more important then me actually.
   720. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:19 PM (#2939750)
Folks who agree, ideologically, with Obama think he has experience and Palin doesn't. Those that disagree on philosopy think it is the other way around. It's just a quicker weapon to access than a detailed policy discussion.


Generally, maybe, but I agree with Obama on most stuff and disagree with Palin on most stuff, and I have said that I think the exp issue is a wash and overstated.
   721. bunyon Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:19 PM (#2939752)
The ultimate nightmare scenario remains the same: a nuclear bomb goes off in Washington DC and no one claims responsibility for it. Do I think that would happen under a McCain or Palin presidency? No, but I think we as a country get incrementally closer to that possibility than we would with Obama at the helm. In my worldview, then, worrying about the fact that I might pay (significantly) more tax when I start making over $250k doesn't come even close to a voting decision for me, even if I think that such tax policies are bad for the country's economy.

It's an arguable point, I suppose. I don't think who is president really affects when that day will come. Neither of these guys is going to let the terrorists do any damn thing they want and neither will so overwhelm the terrorists with love that they give up the fight. I think they differ on Iraq; I don't think they differ on Al Qaeda and other groups. And these groups hate America - maybe for a variety of reasons, but it isn't like they'll see Obama, a very western mind, in the White House and decide to give up the fight. His trying to talk to them may just piss them off more.

And, besides, if you think a nuke suddenly going off in DC is a possibility, you should be rooting for McCain/Palin given your preferences. ;)
   722. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:24 PM (#2939754)
But I know a lazy drifter when I see one.


Me too. Stop wasting time on the net and get some work done.
   723. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:26 PM (#2939755)
Basically, the jury is still out on her, as far as I'm concerned. That means the cheerleaders at National Review who claim she passed last night's test are wrong -- but it also means that the people on the left who already decided that she can't hang are wrong too.


My compliments, FWIW, to go with Andy's.
   724. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:27 PM (#2939756)
The ultimate nightmare scenario remains the same: a nuclear bomb goes off in Washington DC and no one claims responsibility for it.
Wait, why is blowing up Washington a bad thing? Did you watch the steroid hearings?


EDIT: Besides, if this happens, isn't it more likely that the Secretary of Agriculture or someone becomes President than that Palin does?
   725. bunyon Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:27 PM (#2939757)
Generally, maybe, but I agree with Obama on most stuff and disagree with Palin on most stuff, and I have said that I think the exp issue is a wash and overstated.

Yes, but you're a cool, calm, thoughtful guy.


At least that is what your mom keeps saying. (By the way, I had a look at your zinger in the other thread. I'm deeply sorry I missed that in real time. What a shot!)
   726. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:31 PM (#2939761)
It's an arguable point, I suppose. I don't think who is president really affects when that day will come. Neither of these guys is going to let the terrorists do any damn thing they want and neither will so overwhelm the terrorists with love that they give up the fight.


It may be arguable, but I agree. I have a lot of reasons for voting against McCain, but that ain't among them. These guys hate the USA (and other countries)and want to hurt it, whoever the pres is. I guess one could say that a woman in office might get them even more crazed.
   727. walt williams bobblehead Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:33 PM (#2939762)
Wait, why is blowing up Washington a bad thing?

Because fans from that general area of the country will be stuck with the Orioles again.
   728. bunyon Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:34 PM (#2939763)
I guess one could say that a woman in office might get them even more crazed.

Okay, I hadn't considered that.

If President McCain dies Jan. 25, 2009, she should immediately start taunting Al Qaeda. They'd go even more nuts and just start spontaneously combusting. She could give the speech with a little ankle showing.
   729. bads85 Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:36 PM (#2939766)
How can someone with 480 posts possibly have enough experience to assign blame for thread closure.


I can see the Russian Bear from my back yard. Or maybe that is just a lard ass at the country club. Close enough.
   730. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:41 PM (#2939767)
It may be arguable, but I agree. I have a lot of reasons for voting against McCain, but that ain't among them.
I know, I know: it's because he doesn't use email!
   731. thread killer Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:45 PM (#2939771)
I can see the Russian Bear from my back yard. Or maybe that is just a lard ass at the country club. Close enough

Bears can wear plaid pants?
   732. bads85 Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:48 PM (#2939773)
Bears can wear plaid pants?


If left unchecked by a strong military presence, yes.
   733. thread killer Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:52 PM (#2939774)
Bears can wear plaid pants?


If left unchecked by a strong military presence, yes.


Damn you NAFTA!
   734. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:54 PM (#2939779)
I know, I know: it's because he doesn't use email!

Can anyone explain how a candidate who polls poorly with elderly voters and is running in a tight race in Florida can possibly release the ad the Obama campaign released today?
   735. RayDiPerna Posted: September 12, 2008 at 09:59 PM (#2939781)
Bill Sammon:

ABC News’ Charles Gibson, who is being credited with stumping Sarah Palin on the definition of the “Bush Doctrine,” has himself defined the nebulous phrase in a variety of ways, including one that mirrored Palin’s disputed explanation.

Gibson and his colleagues have been all over the map in defining the Bush Doctrine over the last seven years. In 2001, Gibson himself defined it as “a promise that all terrorists organizations with global reach will be found, stopped and defeated.”

But when Palin tried to give a similar definition on Thursday, Gibson corrected her.

“I believe that what President Bush has attempted to do is rid this world of Islamic extremism, terrorists who are hell bent on destroying our nation,” Palin said in her first interview since being nominated as the GOP’s vice presidential candidate.

...

The term “Bush Doctrine” was first coined by columnist Charles Krauthammer three months before the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001 and has undergone profound changes as the war against terror has evolved.

“There is no single meaning of the Bush Doctrine,” Krauthammer noted in a forthcoming column. “In fact, there have been four distinct meanings, each one succeeding another over the eight years of this administration — and the one Charlie Gibson cited is not the one in common usage today. It is utterly different.”
   736. RJ in TO Posted: September 12, 2008 at 10:04 PM (#2939784)
New excerpts from the interview, including her discussion of the Bridge to Nowhere.
   737. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: September 12, 2008 at 10:12 PM (#2939791)
Can anyone explain how a candidate who polls poorly with elderly voters and is running in a tight race in Florida possibly release the ad the Obama campaign released today?

Does he have any sort of shot at Florida? Nothing I've read all year suggests he does.
   738. dingo powered war machine (CoB) Posted: September 12, 2008 at 10:19 PM (#2939795)
wow ... charlie gibson is just an awful, awful journalist. my dog could ask more interesting and illuminating questions and do a better job with follow ups than what i saw in those excerpts. everyone seems to get all frothy about how "biased" the media is (on either side of the spectrum), but i'm far more irritated by how little basic competency almost all of them display.
   739. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: September 12, 2008 at 10:29 PM (#2939803)
New excerpts from the interview, including her discussion of the Bridge to Nowhere.

I think she comes off a little better here. I like that she's talking more about transparency in government spending (which is pretty unequivocally admirable) instead of implying (hypocritically) that she has always been against all earmarks as she and McCain have over the past week. She also definitely sounds more in-touch on social issues than the Democrats have been trying to paint her.
   740. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 12, 2008 at 10:50 PM (#2939810)
Does he have any sort of shot at Florida? Nothing I've read all year suggests he does.

Fox/Rasmussen poll of 500 likely voters released on 9/7 had it a dead heat. Most other recent polls have McCain leading, but not overwhelmingly. OTOH, the Obama campaign doesn't seem to be trying to win Florida.
   741. Backlasher Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:17 PM (#2939822)
I can see the Russian Bear from my backyard. Or maybe that is the lard ass at the country club ...

Maybe it was the Golden Bear, Jack Nicklaus
   742. Perros Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:20 PM (#2939825)
When I have nothing to say, my lips are sealed.

Say something once, why say it again?
   743. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:21 PM (#2939827)
   744. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:22 PM (#2939829)
"my lips are sealed"

And you got the beat.
   745. Backlasher Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:25 PM (#2939831)
welcome back alex.
   746. Backlasher Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:26 PM (#2939832)
"And you got the beat"

Is that because of his forced "vacation"

"Todd Palin subpoenaed"

Did he do steroids
   747. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:32 PM (#2939839)
Did he do steroids


No, he but I heard he wanted to withdraw from the American Governors' Spouses Association.
   748. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:34 PM (#2939841)
Qu'est-ce que c'est?
   749. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:34 PM (#2939842)
Palin reminds much more of this speaker than Sojourner Truth.

Charlie, I believe the terrorist in the Iraq, such as, the fundamentalist threats, such as, Charlie, defend our way of life Charlie, such as Charlie.
   750. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:36 PM (#2939843)
E-X--what's up man? How's the new school year?
   751. Mike Emeigh Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:37 PM (#2939845)
I don't get the two part reference to # 3 here.


You had two items labeled #3 in your original post.

-- MWE
   752. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:40 PM (#2939848)
Republican efforts to delay the probe until after the Nov. 4 election were thwarted when GOP State Sen. Charlie Huggins, who represents Palin's hometown of Wasilla, sided with Democrats. "Let's just get the facts on the table," said Huggins, who appeared in camouflage pants to vote during a break from moose hunting.


Is it always moose season up there or what?
   753. robinred Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:43 PM (#2939851)
At least that is what your mom keeps saying. (By the way, I had a look at your zinger in the other thread. I'm deeply sorry I missed that in real time. What a shot!)


retro said it meant I have high BTF peak value but urged me not to stick around too long and make everyone watch a long, embarrassing decline phase.

Too late already, I suppose.
   754. bunyon Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:46 PM (#2939852)
You're unique in that your decline phase preceded your peak.

Is it always moose season up there or what?

Yes.
   755. RJ in TO Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:48 PM (#2939855)
Is it always moose season up there or what?


Except when it's duck season.

Or rabbit season.
   756. Perros Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:48 PM (#2939856)
There is nothing I could say that I haven't thought before.
   757. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:53 PM (#2939859)
The ultimate nightmare scenario remains the same: a nuclear bomb goes off in Washington DC and no one claims responsibility for it.


It happened once and it can happen again.... Heh, heh, heh.
   758. Eraser-X is emphatically dominating teh site!!! Posted: September 12, 2008 at 11:56 PM (#2939860)
It's good. But the board is trying to destroy our school so they can charter it up. Whether or not you agree with the politics, it sucks what it does to the kids--40 classes with no teacher (kids just sitting there doing nothing), class sizes above 40 and as high as 66 in regular subjects (the 66 is in Spanish) and all the while the Board berating kids for missing school to engage in social action.

But I'm doing well with my 45 kid class and then seem enthused about the language. I've been trying to use my "prep periods" to meet with the classes that have no teacher so they feel like someone gives a crap about them.

And the social justice kids are on a whole other level this year--already out interviewing kids with no teacher on their own and writing up a narrative to give to the press. We think our school will be targeted for closure in Spring 2010, so they are trying to build mass resistance now instead of waiting until too late. They've been very present in those teacherless classes--sometimes even just going in and teaching the kids. We are also up to 0.6% non-African American, which isn't exactly Brown v. Board, but it's 6 times the integration we had when I started at the school.

Blatant plug to my rich friends here at BTF: We are trying to fundraise for social justice oriented scholarships now and also travel funds for our kids to buy bus passes, secure travel to NOLA and Osaka, JPN, etc. (we usually can't afford school buses which isn't a bad thing if we get the passes--it's more empowering for them to use the public transporation). So if anyone is interested in donating anything, shoot me an email and I'd be elated to connect you to our school or fiscal agent. Of course, you could get a copy of the year end report of accomplishments and how we spend our money.

Dan and Jim and friends: I'm not sure if that's appropriate, so please edit it or email me if it's not.
   759. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 13, 2008 at 12:02 AM (#2939866)
Dan and Jim and friends: I'm not sure if that's appropriate, so please edit it or email me if it's not.
Of all the things that appear here, you're worried if that's inappropriate?
   760. Gern Blanston Posted: September 13, 2008 at 12:06 AM (#2939868)
retro said it meant I have high BTF peak value but urged me not to stick around too long and make everyone watch a long, embarrassing decline phase.

Too late already, I suppose.


I didn't urge you not to stick around. I only urged you not to subject us to embarrassing throwaway "your mom" references that put your luminous peak to shame. As long as you're still productive, there'll always be a place for you on the roster, even if you never recapture that old glory.

And FWIW, just thinking about your "pro-abortion/so's your mom" line still cracks my ass up.
   761. robinred Posted: September 13, 2008 at 12:13 AM (#2939871)
I suppose this may be savvy politics, but it seems a little presumptuous to me:


Palin praised Clinton's "determination, and grit and even grace" during the Democratic primaries, sounding an altogether different note than when she suggested earlier this year that the New York senator was whining about negative press coverage and campaigning in a way that was not advancing the cause of women in politics.

"I think he's regretting not picking her now," Palin told ABC News.


***
   762. robinred Posted: September 13, 2008 at 12:15 AM (#2939872)
Of all the things that appear here, you're worried if that's inappropriate.


Sometimes people get pissed about being asked for money in spaces not designed for that purpose, even if it is done as nicely as E-X did it.
   763. robinred Posted: September 13, 2008 at 12:17 AM (#2939873)
I only urged you not to subject us to embarrassing throwaway "your mom" references that put your luminous peak to shame
.

bunyon suggested that we change it to "So's the Palin Family" IIRC. Maybe to keep it bipartisan, we could go with that and "So's Obama's Grandma." I kind of like "So's Bristol Palin" along with "So's Obama's grandma."
   764. RJ in TO Posted: September 13, 2008 at 12:19 AM (#2939876)
bunyon suggested that we change it to "So's the Palin Family" IIRC. Maybe to keep it bipartisan, we could go with that and "So's Obama's Grandma."


Change the latter to "So's the Obama Mama Mama", and I'll agree, only because it'll be even more fun to say than Bob Loblaw.
   765. Perros Posted: September 13, 2008 at 12:28 AM (#2939882)
I'm not sure if that's appropriate, so please edit it or email me if it's not.

As long as you're not teaching those kids vulgar French poetry, it'll probably be okay.

Dan eased my suspension a few days early, but warned he better not come back from his trip and find the complete works of DH Lawrence pasted to a Pedroia thread.

That would undoubtedly provoke a 20-page war with kevin.

Disclaimer: The above commentary is intended as humor and is in no way meant as a criticism of Jim, Dan, or any other site moderator or contributor. The late Alex Perros finds the entire incident quite humorous, including his emails proclaiming innocence regarding the tempest. Even in heated political debate at a baseball site, we should all take a step back, credit our adversaries as honest opponents, and resist the temptation to take the low road of the Bush operatives running John McCain's campaign.

In this way, we all can all transform the shared grief of victims of war and terror to build bridges to international understanding and many peaceful tomorrows.


Barack Obama approved this message.
   766. cercopithecus aethiops Posted: September 13, 2008 at 01:10 AM (#2939933)
Now that's a bridge to nowhere.
   767. Perros Posted: September 13, 2008 at 01:25 AM (#2939956)
What a Frenchman, Karl Rove, and Ark all know:

The Reptilian Always Wins

[Middle English roven, to shoot arrows at a mark]

Explains why Republicans so often win... and why many of us live in our mother's basements.
   768. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:31 AM (#2940000)
I waded through pages of abortion photos and political propaganda while In Search Of the classic "your mom" line everyone is talking about. Alas, to no avail.

Thanks to #782 for the executive summary.
   769. robinred Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:46 AM (#2940005)
Oriole,

It appears in posts 3076 and 3077 of said thread.

/self-promotion
   770. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:04 AM (#2940009)
#791:

Yeah, that was money. There were actually several good cracks on that particular page, but yours was the chicken dinner.

Stuff like that is what keeps me coming back.
   771. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 13, 2008 at 04:48 AM (#2940038)
Stuff like that is what keeps me coming back.
And I thought it was the close camaraderie between me and Kevin.
   772. Oriole Tragic is totally awesome in the postseason Posted: September 13, 2008 at 04:59 AM (#2940041)
Well, I waaaas wondering how it went between you two at the O's game.

I didn't see anything in the paper, the next day.
   773. Fancy Pants Handle is the AntAgonizer Posted: September 13, 2008 at 05:42 AM (#2940049)
Well, I waaaas wondering how it went between you two at the O's game.

I didn't see anything in the paper, the next day.


Only because they never found the bodies...
   774. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:30 AM (#2940060)
wrt Palin, she really doesn't know much of anything, does she? There was nothing substantive. Nothing. Catch phrases, excuses, slang, buzzwords, and the usual bullsh!t. Nothing at all on the order even of a short, thoughtful discussion of the history of Iraq and the problems of bringing the three major groups into peaceful coexistence. Or how to keep them peacefully separated. No thoughts on counterinsurgent strategies in Afghanistan. No meaningful details on energy policy, even on something as simple as why nuclear power might be a good idea, what we'll do with the waste, what safeguards are necessary generally, and what safeguards are necessary specifically against terrorist attacks against nuclear plants.

How did we arrive at the point where education, intellect, and thoughtful discussion are things to be dismissed? If she didn't want to answer certain questions, why not change the subject fruitfully, and tell us why drilling is a good idea, how long it will take to see the benefits, what we'll do in the meantime, and what other measures will complement drilling? Surely as the Governor of Alaska she knows to excess the substantive details of those things? Something like that should have be as natural to her as the discussion of OPS is here.
   775. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 13, 2008 at 02:50 PM (#2940151)
Wait, a media interview wasn't a history seminar or a military strategy session? You're right; that proves that she must not know much of anything.
   776. Perros Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:05 PM (#2940156)
Palin knows how to climb the political ladder, knows payback of both friends and enemies in kind, knows the political game through and through.

More from Rapaille:

The cortex is the last part of the brain that we develop, and that's what we suppose to be "intelligent." We are scientists, you know -- numbers and stuff like that. Now, what is interesting is the cortex, we [are] kind of aware of that. We try to be intelligent, but the reptilian [part] we are not very much aware of it, and the limbic is more or less completely unconscious.

These levels are very different from one culture to another. Some cultures are very reptilian, which means very basic instinct. American culture is a very basic instinct: I want to be reached now; let's do it. [There's a] bias for action. Just now, [America is] very adolescent when other cultures are more cortex, very control, control, control. The German, the French are very controlled. They want the government to control everything, the state, the bureaucracy, the administration. The ideal life for a German person is when they just have to obey; the administration is in charge of everything and controls everything, and you don't have to worry about anything. We don't like that. We Americans, we like to have choices: My own life, I want to become whatever I am; whatever it is doesn't matter, but I want to become myself -- not something else, not what people tell me.


Of course, there are variations within every culture -- some Americans are French, some German, and some still want to go native.
   777. TomH Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:42 PM (#2940167)
Suggestion: we generate a BTF voting thread on the first Tues in Nov. Everyone who actually went to the polls (or mailed it in) pipes in with the choice they made for Pres (and congress as well, if you like). And we'll see where the BTFers stand on the spectrum as a whole.
   778. robinred Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:57 PM (#2940178)
Tom,

Don't know if they did that in '04. Good idea, though. If the election is a late-into-the-night, nip-and-tuck affair, (IMO it will be) and there is an election night thread, I think it will smash all previous post records. Here is my prediction on the BTF vote, with a nod to baseball chick:

Obama 8000
Barr 4
McCain 3
   779. tfbg9 Posted: September 13, 2008 at 03:59 PM (#2940181)
Joe Biden gave ~$3900 to charity over the last ten years?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Perfect. The Gaff-0-Matic strikes again, this time without
uttering a single narcissistic syllable.

And next we'll learn he "wrote off" the hair plugs.

/drive by
   780. Perros Posted: September 13, 2008 at 04:31 PM (#2940206)
That figure is not how much Biden gave to charity, but how much charitable giving he used to dodge taxes.

Wonder how much Biden collected in per diem tax money for his travel and meals to his home in Delaware.
   781. Swoboda is freedom Posted: September 13, 2008 at 04:45 PM (#2940218)
That figure is not how much Biden gave to charity, but how much charitable giving he used to dodge taxes.

If he was writing some off, he probably was writing off everything. He didn't give a lot to charity. Maybe he volunteered somewhere, but he didn't give much.

I know he is one of the least well off Senators, he made $2.5 million over the last 10 years, which by Senate standards is the bread line.
   782. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 13, 2008 at 05:16 PM (#2940229)
That figure is not how much Biden gave to charity, but how much charitable giving he used to dodge taxes.
It isn't "dodging" taxes, and I don't know anybody who gives money to charity and doesn't deduct it; that would be stupid.
   783. Perros Posted: September 13, 2008 at 05:54 PM (#2940258)
#### me as stupid, or just too asset-poor to file a 1040.
   784. walt williams bobblehead Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:33 PM (#2940267)
I deduct what I give by check. But I give a fair amount to charity every year in the form of cash. I don't keep track of that and deduct it. It don't worry me.
   785. Chris Dial Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2940280)
It isn't "dodging" taxes, and I don't know anybody who gives money to charity and doesn't deduct it; that would be stupid.
Put me down as stupid too, I guess, because we donate all sorts of clothes and toys to Goodwill without bothering to get a receipt (or attempting to define the value).
   786. Chris Dial Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:56 PM (#2940284)
I think she comes off a little better here. I
I think she was MUCH better. I found her to be fine.
   787. Darren Posted: September 13, 2008 at 06:57 PM (#2940285)
Chris, David said "money."
   788. Tike Redman's Shattered Dreams (shayborg) Posted: September 13, 2008 at 07:10 PM (#2940293)
I think she was MUCH better. I found her to be fine.

Oh, I thought she was OK the first day, too. She was obviously out of her depth on some of it, but that wasn't really surprising.
   789. Perros Posted: September 13, 2008 at 07:53 PM (#2940328)
Oops, mistyped "count" above.

Is it possible to donate enough money to lower your tax bracket/taxes owed beyond what you are giving away? Irregardless, it makes sense to direct some of your money towards causes you support and away from the thresher.

Spellcheck accepts 'irregardless', btw.
   790. Kyle S Posted: September 13, 2008 at 08:52 PM (#2940389)
perros, tax brackets only apply to marginal dollars earned. Thus, while you could donate enough to move from bracket to bracket, the difference in tax paid is only the difference in tax rates times the number of dollars above the rate-change threshold.
   791. Gern Blanston Posted: September 13, 2008 at 08:54 PM (#2940396)
I don't know anybody who gives money to charity and doesn't deduct it; that would be stupid.

Well, not if you don't have total deductibles greater than the standard deduction. I'm sure most charitable donations come from people who itemize, but surely not all.
   792. Gern Blanston Posted: September 13, 2008 at 08:56 PM (#2940401)
Spellcheck accepts 'irregardless', btw.

That's because the people who program spellchecks are bonified pre-Madonnas.

(I'm amused that "spellcheck" gets spellchecked. Isn't that kind of like misspelling "misspell"?)
   793. pv nasby Posted: September 13, 2008 at 10:35 PM (#2940473)
You dorks can keep having your little arguments, a challenger appears, the race is finished.

NAA
   794. Los Angeles ALBERT F. PUJOLS of Anaheim Posted: September 13, 2008 at 10:50 PM (#2940488)
Damn, nasby. That's so good, I'm dizzy.
   795. David Nieporent (now, with children) Posted: September 13, 2008 at 11:40 PM (#2940538)
Well, not if you don't have total deductibles greater than the standard deduction. I'm sure most charitable donations come from people who itemize, but surely not all.
Okay, well, yes, obviously if you don't itemize. But nobody who makes over $200K/year -- like Biden -- is not itemizing.
   796. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: September 13, 2008 at 11:43 PM (#2940541)
...you're right...

Thank you, David. And best wishes for your speedy recovery.

Put me down as stupid too, I guess, because we donate all sorts of clothes and toys to Goodwill without bothering to get a receipt (or attempting to define the value).

Oops, maybe--should I have been taking a deduction for hours given? I'm guessing not, but...
   797. Perros Posted: September 13, 2008 at 11:52 PM (#2940544)
Follow a nasby link, burn after reading.
   798. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: September 14, 2008 at 12:10 AM (#2940572)
nothings funnier than watch bleeding heart types learn about charity
   799. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: September 14, 2008 at 02:11 AM (#2940666)
   800. Gambling Rent Czar Posted: September 14, 2008 at 03:14 AM (#2940680)
Disturbing ..

But then again, I am not a huge fan of Jon Stewart either, and I don't see much of a difference between the two. It is political satire.

Yes, I understand the race angle that democrats are going to make as much hay with, as possible, but I think it is a reach at best. I have seen worse on Jon Stewart.
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