Well, at least the Cardinals made past the halfway point of the season in second place.

Who does CC replace in the rotation: Parra (4.66 xFIP), McClung (4.67), Suppan (4.72), or Bush (5.18)?

Jeez, those FIPS look bad. I'd bet Bush will be replaced, with Parra having a shot as well because he has an innings limit (at least theoretically) this year. Then again, it could be McClung as well. I wouldn't be surprised if the Brewers made another trade for a starter now that this one is done.

I'm not sure about the long-term effects of this deal, but I'll just sit back and try to enjoy this season.

Watch out Bratwurst stands, here comes CC!

Who does CC replace in the rotation: Parra (4.66 xFIP), McClung (4.67), Suppan (4.72), or Bush (5.18)?

Parra has been outstanding (too many walks, but otherwise outstanding) for 2/3 of the season so far. He's solid. Bush has been lights out in his last 3 starts, I think he's safe. McClung has been pitching pretty well recently, Suppan has not -- but Soup makes the big dollars, and McClung has "bullpen experience."

I'd bet Sheets' elbow that McClung goes to the pen, and hopefully Mota (but probably Stetter) gets sent packing.

Secondary question: Where does Sabathia pitch in '09?

Where does Sabathia pitch in '09?

NY Yankees

Dodgers, maybe.
They've got a ton of salary coming off the books, plus CC is a California guy.

Most likely. I could see the Angels doing it, since Escobar is toast, and the performance of Saunders and Garland is flukish. The Rangers are unpredictable; they might go nuts.

Tertiary question: What will the Brewers rotation look like in 2009? Most likely, both Sheets and CC will be gone. Are they going to have to trade Fielder for a young stud and then plug Gamel at 1b?

The Rangers are unpredictable; they might go nuts.

I've always gotten the impression that CC is a pretty bright guy. He has to know that going to Texas would be a death sentence for him.

Tertiary question: What will the Brewers rotation look like in 2009? Most likely, both Sheets and CC will be gone. Are they going to have to trade Fielder for a young stud and then plug Gamel at 1b?

Doubtful. Also, if the Brewers make a nice run, I think Sheets may stay.

Dodgers, maybe.
They've got a ton of salary coming off the books, plus CC is a California guy.

and Colletti is crazy. It'll be like a little game, how much can one spend on a starting rotation AND the Major League disabled list!

Tertiary question: What will the Brewers rotation look like in 2009? Most likely, both Sheets and CC will be gone. Are they going to have to trade Fielder for a young stud and then plug Gamel at 1b?

Trade Fielder?!?!? Isn't it his presence that made them have no use for LaPorta?

Tertiary question: What will the Brewers rotation look like in 2009? Most likely, both Sheets and CC will be gone. Are they going to have to trade Fielder for a young stud and then plug Gamel at 1b?

They wouldn't have to do that, and considering that they just traded LaPorta, they don't have nearly as much of a corner logjam anymore. Their rotation could be average or above next year just with the guys they'll have under contract (Gallardo, Parra, Bush, Suppan, McClung, Villanueva). However, with Sheets and various other crap coming off the books, there is no reason they can't sign someone to replace Sheets and/or Sabathia. The above six guys will probably not even cost $20 million even with Suppan accounting for $12 million of that.

Sheets is gone.

Zach Greinke could be a FA target.

I still think the Nationals are going to make a hard push for Sabathia. Not that they'll actually get him; of course he's going to the Yankees.

Honestly, I think the expected result of the Sabathia deal for 2008 is that he'll take Sheets' place in the rotation after Sheets hurts himself and misses the second half as he always does.

17

Greinke isn't going to be a free agent though...

great line in a tribe blog: will fielder and CC have to be seated at separate ends of the planes for balance?

I know one thing: if I were a Brewer fan, I wouldn't be thinking all that much about '09 right now. I'd be thinking, "Get ahead of the Cardinals."

19:

I thought I read that he was coming up.

Whoops.

Either way, Sheets will want 15/yr over lots of years,

That is not happening in Milwaukeea.

Watch the Dodgers get Sheets, and relive the Dreifort nightmare.

I'd give the Dodgers a good chance to land Sabathia, but I could definitely see them going for Sheets instead.

Good for the Brewers, and I'd be happy to see them win the WS.

The Yankees have a ton of payroll (probably more than anyone else) coming off this year and are also moving to a more profitable stadium. Who knows what they'll do, but I hope they go after Sabathia hard.

You know... the Yankees have far more money than any team in baseball. To my thinking, unless somebody goes totally crazy like with the Barry Zito Contract, if they don't come away with both Sabathia and Teixeira this offseason, they're failing to leverage their money. I also have trouble understanding why they don't just sign every highly-regarded Latin American prospect. Every one of them. Because they rightly fear that would result in something being done to stop them, I guess.

Yeah, 6 years/$140 million is too much to pay for a pitcher, even Sabathia. But the Yankees, more than anybody else, can afford it, and with Sabathia and Teixeira we're talking about relatively young free agents, guys that are better bets than your typical free agent to still be good players 6 or 7 years from now.

I know one thing: if I were a Brewer fan, I wouldn't be thinking all that much about '09 right now. I'd be thinking, "Get ahead of the Cardinals."

They did that today too.

It's probably the right move for the Indians, but damn I will miss seeing CC pitch in an Indians uniform. This kinda sucks.

Zach Greinke could be a FA target.

But he's not a free agent until 2010. And, I'd think that KC would want to keep him just a little.

The Indians got good value out of this trade. LaPorta plus a couple of decent low-minors prospects is more valuable than the two draft picks. As for the Brewers, they'll get the draft picks, which is nice, but they're going all-in on 2008, which is the right move.

Going for The Big Run This Year would have made way more sense if Gallardo weren't hurt. Then you've got three aces, and World Series dreams would be very realistic. But without Gallardo, I don't like the odds on this. If the Brewers make the playoffs -- far from a given even with CC -- and lose in the first or second round, and if LaPorta is a quality major leaguer (I'm thinking Pat Burrell), will this really go down in history as a good deal for them? I don't think it would.

(I'm assuming they have no realistic shot to re-sign CC, which I haven't heard anyone claim to the contrary.)

CC getting to hit regularly is cool, though.

I know I've come out against this trade from the Brewers standpoint but if you're going to mortgage the future for an ace, I really like CC. He's so young and he's been so durable and so good. He really does improve the team about as much as any starting pitcher would.

So it looks like the Twins could have gotten more for Johan if they waited. I sure as hell would rather have LaPorta than Gomez.

If the Brewers make the playoffs -- far from a given even with CC -- and lose in the first or second round, and if LaPorta is a quality major leaguer (I'm thinking Pat Burrell), will this really go down in history as a good deal for them?

When a team hasn't made the playoffs in over a quarter-century, yes, even that would be a tremendous boost locally.

Sheets is probably gone in 2009, so remember that.

I also have trouble understanding why they don't just sign every highly-regarded Latin American prospect. Every one of them.

This would eventually lead to some of them not wanting to be in the Yankees organization because they would have to get past a huge number of other good players in order to have any shot of making the majors. On the other hand, a $1 million bonus would make me see that as a much smaller problem. And it seemed to work when Branch Rickey did it with US prospects.

He seems a good bet for a long, healthy career, certainly for a good next four or five years. That means that (a) if a smaller-payroll team is going to spend huge dollars on a player, he's the one, but also (b) he'll get a truly gigantic contract, in both money and years, if he stays healthy for the next three months. That makes the Brewers both more and less likely to re-sign him.

CC getting to hit regularly is cool, though.

Wow, 107 OPS+ in 40 AB. Is that pure fluke, or does he have some pre MLB hitting form?

Could be a big win for the Tribe if "lower level" guy ends up being Jeffress, even though the CW was that the Indians needed positional talent.

In reporting it as a done deal, ESPN says:

Brewers general manager Doug Melvin told the Journal Sentinel on Saturday that a proposal was on table and he awaiting word from Indians GM Mark Shapiro.

"Mark said he'd be in touch with me," said Melvin. "I'm sure they've got to think through everything."

Doesn't sound like a deal yet to me.

That quote is from yesterday. Although it is true that the only outlet reporting it as being done, as far as I can tell, is the Journal Sentinel blog.

Doesn't sound like a deal yet to me.

That was lifted from yesterday's J-S blog entry

Thanks, gents.

I've got my tickets for Tuesday's game!

But without Gallardo, I don't like the odds on this. If the Brewers make the playoffs -- far from a given even with CC -- and lose in the first or second round, and if LaPorta is a quality major leaguer (I'm thinking Pat Burrell), will this really go down in history as a good deal for them? I don't think it would.

Does it really accomplish much to say this is a good deal if the Brewers win the World Series and a bad deal if it doesn't? I think it's a good deal because it significantly improves their chances to win the championship, and it is, after all, about winning the championship.

The gold standard here is the Tigers trading John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander in 1987. Alexander propelled them to the world championship, and as great as John Smoltz was, it seems unlikely lacking him cost the Tigers any subsequent championships. Was it a terrible trade? Maybe it was, but I think it was a good trade -- they were trading a strong pitching prospect to bolster the team for a championship run now. Once in a while that prospect turns into John Smoltz, but mostly he turns into Bill Pulsipher or whatever.

Anyway, that trade seems OK to Tigers fans, because, of course, they won the championship. If they hadn't, it would be regarded today as one of the most disastrous trades of all time. I think this is unfair.

One more point -- there were a lot of people that didn't like the Brewers drafting LaPorta last year, because they already had more glove-free mashers than they knew what to do with. This is why at the top of the draft, you always draft the best player available, period, regardless of perceived 'organizational needs'.

Most likely. I could see the Angels doing it, since Escobar is toast, and the performance of Saunders and Garland is flukish.

Saunders probably isn't actually one of the best starters in baseball, but what's so flukish about Garland's numbers? He's on a really good run right now, but coming into today's game, he's sporting just a 102 ERA+ for the season (career avg: 105), and his season WHIP is actually at its highest point since 2002. Garland could probably have this exact season for another five years.

The Tigers didn't win the WS in 1987. They lost the ALCS to the Twins, who went on to beat the Cardinals.

Anyway, that trade seems OK to Tigers fans, because, of course, they won the championship. If they hadn't, it would be regarded today as one of the most disastrous trades of all time. I think this is unfair.

Didn't the Twins win the championship in '87?

Anyway, that trade seems OK to Tigers fans, because, of course, they won the championship. If they hadn't, it would be regarded today as one of the most disastrous trades of all time. I think this is unfair.

The Tigers lost the 1987 ALCS to the eventual WS Champion Twins.

ospect to bolster the team for a championship run now. Once in a while that prospect turns into John Smoltz, but mostly he turns into Bill Pulsipher or whate

I do declare, dear sir, a certain team from Minnesota may perchance have bested the Detroits in that particular autumn.

And Doyle Alexander wasn't CC Sabathia, though he was lights out for the Tigers down the stretch in '87.

Watch out Bratwurst stands, here comes CC!

Will they let him participate in the sausage race without a costume?

You guys already knew I was an idiot, right? Geez, I suck at life...

I could edit that out now, but I don't see why my idiocy doesn't deserve to remain in print for all to point and laugh at.

OK, so anyway, they won the division. That's the important part... right?

You are correct, however, that the '87 Tigers don't win the division without that Alexander trade. That was one hell of a divisional race. (Of course, even WITH Alexander, they still don't win the division without Toronto's largess, but I digress....)

The Brewers and the Cleveland Indians agreed in principle to a deal for the reigning AL Cy Young on Sunday, sources told ESPN's Buster Olney. The deal is contingent on paperwork being finished and the exchange of medical records.

The trade was first reported by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

In a text message to ESPN.com's Amy K. Nelson, Sabathia all but confirmed the deal.

"I'm good, excited," Sabathia wrote. "It's weird leaving these guys."

ESPN

We're conducting text message interviews now?

What I'll always remember from 1987 (aside from Alan Trammell's shoulda-been MVP season) was Tony Fernandez getting wiped out by Matlock and being lost for the season.

We're conducting text message interviews now?

I wonder if C.C. actually put the commas in.

What I'll always remember from 1987 (aside from Alan Trammell's shoulda-been MVP season) was Tony Fernandez getting wiped out by Matlock and being lost for the season.

Who knew Andy Griffith was such a bat-out-of-hell baserunner?

im gud. cited. wierd leavin these guyz

We're conducting text message interviews now?

It's not just the younger guys, either.

Favre's first comments on the comeback rumors were via text message.

hey sexy you are very cut it is bad you are 15 the law is very strick about that sort of thing but i might have 2 do an exception this time

Thank you, Eric Cyr.

Congrats, Brewer fans. Small market teams have to go for it when they can. No team in the NL will be scary as the Brewers in the playoffs if they can keep Sheets and CC healthy.

What are the Indians expected to do with LaPorta?

Wouldn't surprise me if LaPorta outhits Garko right quick.

Melvin's gone "all in". As we like to say at the poker table, "got's balls as big as church bells".

Hello. I'm Chris Hansen from Dateline NBC...

Who knew Andy Griffith was such a bat-out-of-hell baserunner?
Ha!
Doyle Alexander with the Tigers: 9-0 in 11 GS (88-1/3 IP) with an ERA of 1.53 (278 ERA+); 4th in Cy Young voting, 13th for the MVP.
Randy Johnson in 1998 with Houston was just as good, if not better (10-1, 321 ERA+), but the 'Stros were gonna win the division without him. Detroit, without Doyle, not so.

No team in the NL will be scary as the Brewers in the playoffs if they can keep Sheets ... healthy.

Yeah, and if Hank Steinbrenner gives them Alex Rodriguez and $270 million to pay him with. Which is equally likely.

All the more reason to acquire CC. When Ben goes "poof" there still remains a solid number one to take the load off the bullpen.

Or it's to be hoped....

Passan reports Taylor Green is one of the minor leaguers.

Is there any chance Gallardo is back for September/October?

Is there any chance Gallardo is back for September/October?

There are conflicting reports on that. When Gallardo first got injured, he said he hoped to be back by the end of the season. The team hasn't said anything to that effect though.

The Alexander trade was remarkable because (unlike Randy Johnson) he wasn't an HoF-pedigree pitcher and because the Tigers went 11-0 in his regular season starts. Of course, his record was 9-0, but one of his two no-decisions was a 10 IP, 0 R gem. The Tigers scored in the bottom of the 11th to give Mike Henneman the victory.

Is there any chance Gallardo is back for September/October?

It's still POSSIBLE, but not something that can be counted on with any level of confidence.

The most significant thing here is the Dodgers didn't give up half the farm to get CC. It's been said many times, but deserves to be said again....for all the crap that Ned has gotten around here, (myself included) he hasn't given up any of his top young talent. He's blocked a few along the way, but hasn't given them up.

The most significant thing here is the Dodgers didn't give up half the farm to get CC. It's been said many times, but deserves to be said again....for all the crap that Ned has gotten around here, (myself included) he hasn't given up any of his top young talent.

That's just because Colletti is going to give up the farm for...Jack Wilson.

As long as he doesn't trade LaRoche for Jack ####### Wilson...

shoe:

The top two prospects in the Brewer system are Gamel and Escobar. Then LaPorta. Then Jeffress.

Don't see "half the farm system".

But perhaps you were referring to something else.

Wisconsin State Journal

The Brewers will give up outfielder Matt LaPorta, left-hander Zach Jackson, right-hander Rob Bryson and a player to be determined in the deal.

As long as he doesn't trade LaRoche for Jack ####### Wilson...

While I agree it would be a ripoff to trade LaRoche for Jack Wilson - I'm not all that high on LaRoche. I think he'll be a decent major leaguer - I am skeptical that he will be a star. I do hope I'm wrong. I'm just not sure that he will hit for a decent average in the majors - and without that, he will have to have a very high iso to be a star.

I wonder who the PTBNL is.... because the two compensatory draft picks that Sabathia will fetch will be better than Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson.

I'm just not sure that he will hit for a decent average in the majors - and without that, he will have to have a very high iso to be a star.

Why not? He hardly strikes out and has shown excellent plate discipline in the minors. I realize he hasn't set the world on fire yet in the majors but his minor league resume is too good to not give him a healthy 400ABs or so.

But perhaps you were referring to something else.

I think he meant that there's often a belief around these parts that Colletti is going to gut the Dodgers' farm by trading away half of it for some vet, but it hasn't happened yet, despite fears/rumors to that effect.

Haudricourt

The fourth player currently is listed as "to be named later" but it is believed the Indians want to look more at Green, with the idea of moving him to second base.

Jonk:

Got that right. If that's accurate it's LaPorta and spare change......

Rob Bryson is pretty damn good, or so it looks from his K/BB and K/IP numbers. Small sample of course, as this is only his 2nd pro season. 12 Ks per 9 and 4.5 Ks per BB.

edit: Also, they say he has a 95 MPH fastball. I would much rather have seen Cain go.

I wonder who the PTBNL is.... because the two compensatory draft picks that Sabathia will fetch will be better than Zach Jackson and Rob Bryson.

Possibly. Not every pick works out, and regardless of whether they work out, they get signing bonuses, so that balances it somewhat. Add in that LaPorta is worth more than 16-17 starts of Sabathia to the also ran Indians, and the PTBNL may or may not be significant. Obviously, Brewer fans hope he isn't, and Indian fans hope otherwise.

Frankly, getting one guy who looks very likely to have a significant major league career is a great trade. Three prospects besides is icing on the cake.

karkface approves. Great to see the Crew be a major player yet still have an opportunity to reload.

I mean, Jackson is irrelevant because he was gone after this season anyway. But they are still giving up Green and LaPorta, which means they caved and significantly improved their offer from Cain.

I should add, the word from the Journal-Sentinel is that the PTBNL will be Green once the Indians are reassured that he can still play 2B.

Bryson has done well, yes. But we saw the Brewers draft some nice pitching talents in the supplemental and second rounds last month.

The top two prospects in the Brewer system are Gamel and Escobar. Then LaPorta. Then Jeffress.

I don't follow the Brewers system closely, but that's the first time I've seen either Gamel and Escobar rated ahead of LaPorta.

Gamel's glove is a big question mark and this year is the first time he's hit at LaPorta's level. Escobar has a great glove, but he's needed a huge BABIP spike to post his first 700+ OPS as a professional.

But they are still giving up Green and LaPorta, which means they caved and significantly improved their offer from Cain.

LaPorta/Green/possibly Cain was one of the earliest versions of the trade proposal. Green was seemingly in at the beginning, and it appears it was three players from the get-go.

Based on the reports, it seems in the give-and-take of negotiations, Green got pulled off the table (since his name disappeared for a bit), but Melvin "relented" and put him back in the deal.

Jackson isn't much, but the Indians signed Jeff Weaver, so I suppose an arm is an arm for them right now.

If they caved, throwing in a low-A lottery ticket like Bryson isn't horrible. He wasn't someone to hold up the deal over.

Sure, "not every pick works out," but not every 20-year-old Class A pitcher works out, either.

Why not? He hardly strikes out and has shown excellent plate discipline in the minors. I realize he hasn't set the world on fire yet in the majors but his minor league resume is too good to not give him a healthy 400ABs or so.

Maybe I'm being harsh on him, but I haven't been impressed by his defense, and his major league tenure hasn't shown him ready for the pitching. He's not actually young for somebody who is going to become a star - he will turn 25 before the season is over. I know there are many exceptions, but somebody who has had two chances thus far to win a job, hasn't, and is two months from 25 is imo about to have his chances of stardom fade. As I said, I do think he'll be decent - I'm just beginning to be skeptical that he'll be the star predicted of him.

And yes, I hope it's just small sample size. And it wouldn't surprise me if he had one excellent season at his peak.

The top two prospects in the Brewer system are Gamel and Escobar.

Now they are, not before this trade. Those 2 may have more value to the Brewers because of positional concerns, but there is no way they are both better prospects. Gamel is not going to hit .380 in the majors.

Sure, "not every pick works out," but not every 20-year-old Class A pitcher works out, either.

Of course not. It's foolish to think that ANY prospect is a sure thing, much less a young pitcher. But you are ignoring the factor of the signing bonus - but I am sure that the Indians are not.

The Indians got a player they think will be a significant contributor to them in a year or two. Plus they got three additional prospects, while saving Sabathia's salary for the rest of the season, AND saving the signing bonuses for the two draft picks they would have gotten for Sabathia.

Add in that the prospects they'll be getting are more of a sure thing than the draft picks (although with less chance of surprising on the high end).

somebody who has had two chances thus far to win a job, hasn't, and is two months from 25 is imo about to have his chances of stardom fade.

Andy LaRoche has 153 career plate appearances. That doesn't constitute one chance, much less two. Oh, and despite the terrible batting average, his OBP over those 153 plate appearances is .355. Ned Colletti is an idiot.

Garland's strikeout numbers are only going down.

Very happy for the Brewer fans. I hope it works out and they make it into the playoffs.

Well, then, at the very least, it's good to see that the Brewers now are not an organization that would concern themselves with having two extra signing bonuses to give.

Andy LaRoche has 153 career plate appearances. That doesn't constitute one chance, much less two. Oh, and despite the terrible batting average, his OBP over those 153 plate appearances is .355. Ned Colletti is an idiot.

And his OPS is .694. He walks, and not all that much else.

And he had 115 plate appearances last season. Maybe in a dream world a team in contention gives a player 400 plate appearances to hit, but in the real world that just isn't normally the case. Some players are shorted by this demand that major league prospects actually produce, but not as many as some here think.

Look, it's not like I'm saying that LaRoche is crap - it's just that I'm getting skeptical that he is going to be the big star that many here believe. It could happen - but the older he gets without actually producing at the major league level, the less likely it is to happen.