AP:

After the Brewers were bumped out of the NL playoffs Sunday with a 6-2 loss to Philadelphia, [Sabathia] said that happiness, not money, will play a major role. The big left-hander sure had fun in Milwaukee, too.

“I’d be lying if I didn’t say this was one of the better times I had in my career,” said Sabathia, who went 11-2 with a 1.65 ERA in 17 starts with the Brewers. “Coming here, meeting these guys and being on this team, was a good experience.”
...
“Even when I was in Cleveland, I told people I want to have fun. I like to play this game and I want to be around people I enjoy, because you have to be around them eight months a year,” Sabathia said. “It’ll all factor in.”

It’s also well-known that he’s fond of Southern California, and he’d like to make decision soon.

“I want to get it done pretty quick. I try to be as less free as possible,” Sabathia said. “All that is is stress, having it drag on through the winter. We’ll see what happens.”

"I try to be as less free as possible," Sabathia said.

?!

The reporter must have mis-heard...this is garbled.

So what would it take to keep CC in Milwaukee? Santana got 6/$137.5M. Would that keep CC in Milwaukee?

I take CC at his word for some reason, so my free-agent detector makes me believe he won't be a Yankee.

Nor do I think he'll be a Brewer.

I think CC will be the Mariners DH.

stress typo I bet

Resolved: The most dangerous player to a team is the very good, oft-injured pitcher. Discuss and explain your answer. Be sure to use terms like Prior, Pedro and Bedard in your essay.

I suppose it is only fitting that Sheets's farewell thread will be lost to Hurricane Sabathia in much the same way as his season and overall status/legacy in Milwaukee.

MIL Journal-Sentinel:

Owner Mark Attanasio indicated that he would make an honest attempt to keep Sabathia. He also made it clear that he understood the economic realities of paying huge money to one player with the payroll limitations created by the revenue in this market.

“Sure, (Sabathia’s interest) is encouraging,” Attanasio said. “With free agents and everybody employed in major-league baseball, it’s a two-way street. If he weren’t interested, there wouldn’t be much for us to talk about at any price."
...
“Whatever he gets, he deserves it. Some of the numbers you hear for a player like CC start to approach what we paid for the team ($223 million). We’ll have to look at what our budget is, what we think we’d have to pay, whether there are constructive ways to structure a deal.”
...
Melvin has one year left on his contract and Attanasio said a top priority this winter would be to extend that deal.

“We definitely want to keep Doug Melvin,” Attanasio said. “That’s something I’m sure we’ll address in the off-season.”

The Brewers will make a credible offer for CC. At least 5-$100, if not 6-$120, only to be blown out of the water by several other teams.

Three Sheets to the wind.

Some of the numbers you hear for a player like CC start to approach what we paid for the team ($223 million).

Well, the man clearly has been reading too much BeanoCook but he has a point.

Just wait until CC demands $1m per pound of flesh.

Resolved: The most dangerous player to a team is the very good, oft-injured pitcher. Discuss and explain your answer. Be sure to use terms like Prior, Pedro and Bedard in your essay.

As a Giants fan, I'd have to say that it's the godawful yet disturbingly healthy pitcher with an unbenchable contract.

And I say "disturbingly healthy" because at least an injury would provide some hope for future improvement.

"I try to be as less free as possible," Sabathia said.

?!

The reporter must have mis-heard...this is garbled.

I think the quote is accurate. It's the attribution that's amiss:

"I try to be as less free as possible," Palin said.

It's either "try to be as stress free," "try to beat a lesbian," or "try to eat a mesh screen."

couple folks weren't happy with the decision to PH sabathia yesterday, I thought it wasn't a big deal in a rather low importance AB.

In hindsight - if he really likes to hit, and he mentioned in the MLB article that he thought it was cool he got to have a bat yesterday....that kinda stuff might have some pull when he decides where he's going....

This may seem silly, but its a high reward low risk move. If it worked or helped, even if just to make him think a little harder, awesome decision.
If of no impact, then you wasted an out with nobody on and one out in the second inning, which is what likely would've happened with about 70% of any other batters appearances.

Ben Sheets has had an interesting career from a number of vantage points. That a pitcher of his talent should have a career high in victories of 13 after being in the major leagues for eight seasons is interesting. Even accounting for injury one would think that given the ability to strike guys out and prevent runs would have led to at least one season in the 15-20 range. Ben's career is interesting from the "How Do You Handle a Young Pitcher" perspective. The Brewers worked to monitor his workload/pitch count until Ben hit age 25. After being in the rotation for three seasons with nary an issue the determination was made to push Sheets deeper into games. Sheets innings pitched total went up all of 17 innings. But his pitches per game and the games where he had pitch counts in excess of 110 went up significantly. On a superficial basis one could point to that season as the turning point. But the OTHER interesting part of Ben's career is the TYPE of injuries. A hangnail? An inner ear infection leading to dizziness? What do those have to do with excessive pitch counts?? There was no rotator cuff. There was no major arm surgery. Just a bit of this and a bit of that where a fan never knew not just from season to season but from game to GAME whether Ben was going to be able to answer the bell. Oh, and let's not forget that Ben is a first half pitcher. If it's May or June Ben is the guy you want on the mound. But if it's August? Run for the hills. Ben's career ERA in August is something like 4.75.

Well, I won't bore everyone with the various and sundry details surrounding Ben's time in Milwaukee. But I do think it's important for his next team to understand that Ben is NOT an unknown quantity as some have described him in the press referring to the injury history. Just the opposite. Ben is a very clearly defined quantity.

If a team can work around Ben's limits he can be a positive contributor.

Middle relievers are getting umpteen millions a year for a decent 70 innings. Don't know why Ben shouldn't get the same if not more for a good 160ish. Just have to know that once August 10th rolls around you better have a backup plan. 'Cause he's either going to the DL or gonna stink for a while.

Ben always rebounds in September. If he's still pitching that is. But he always rebounds......

Harvey, do you think he (Sheets) should maybe just be given some built in time off around the break? I'm thinking: skip his start prior to the break, skip his two starts after the break. And, obviously, don't let him pitch in the ASG. So he only misses three starts but gets maybe 4 weeks off.


I hope CC holds true to his statements. I think a lot of players truly, genuinely feel that way but the dollar signs hypnotize them (can't say I blame them). And, I know it's easy for me to say, but would you rather spend the next 7 years in a lousy, unpleasant work environment for $200 million or a fun, relaxed, pleasant environment for $120 million? I don't know how I'd answer that but the calculation has to change once you get in those dollar figures. I mean, I'd clearly pick the former if it was for $81 million vs. the latter for $1 million, and perhaps work environment doesn't mean that much to soem. But the idea of being miserable, on a daily basis, for 8 months out of the year when you're working in a profession that you grew up dreaming about seems to be worth a lot of money to avoid. Especially if you're going to be filthy rich in whatever direction you turn.

bunyon, I feel that Bronson Arroyo did this with the Red Sox, who promptly realized that he was underpaid and had positive trade value because of it and traded him.

A player can't control his working environment unless the player negotiates a no-trade clause. If that's off the table, then I have no problem with a player negotiating to the last penny, since that's all that's guaranteed to him.

bunyon:

Any idea is worth exploring. And actually Ben pitched pretty well in the second half this year. Sheets had a strong August and September. The team just didn't score any runs for him.

The issue is that even with time off Ben is built such that something will fly apart, rest or no. So you give him X time off, placing a burden on the rest of the staff/team, and then two starts in Ben pulls a rib muscle. Or gets a blister. Or someone sprays lemon juice in his eye. Or he gets a bat bite.

I thought the Brewers fans should have given CC a standing ovation after he struck out. It was unlikely at that point they would see him again.

A playoff loss like that - I hope Fielder doesn't drown his sorrows in hamburgers or anything.

Heck, if you stick a Brewers uniform (it doesn’t work in other uniforms) on Cirillo, he’d still probably manage a .360ish OBP off the bench.

Well, you have to remember, he's 65 years old.

A playoff loss like that - I hope Fielder doesn't drown his sorrows in hamburgers or anything.

Did he drop the vegetarian lifestyle already or are you worried about a relapse?

I haven't heard that he dropped it, but I don't know of any vegetarians who stuck with it for ten months or so and actually gained weight.

Fielder eats those vegetables from the garden in "Sleeper."

I haven't heard that he dropped it, but I don't know of any vegetarians who stuck with it for ten months or so and actually gained weight.

My wife, a vegetarian of 20+ years and accomplished distance runner, said that she was offended by Fielder. I asked how and she said a 25 year old professional athlete should not look like that. I told her he was aware of the problem and adopted a vegetarian lifestyle to combat it. She said he was not vegetarian. When pressed, she admitted it may be technically true that he doesn't eat meat but that he's clearly not eating a healthy diet either.

Now, I'm not as anti-fat as she is (anyone who has met me knows this) but I think she may be on to something. It wouldn't surprise me at all if, in dropping meat, he's made up for it with junk.

Harvey?

bunyon, I feel that Bronson Arroyo did this with the Red Sox, who promptly realized that he was underpaid and had positive trade value because of it and traded him.

A player can't control his working environment unless the player negotiates a no-trade clause. If that's off the table, then I have no problem with a player negotiating to the last penny, since that's all that's guaranteed to him.

Oh, indeed. And knowing what the environment will be 7 years down the road is a stretch at any rate. I'm not saying he should take less money than the best offer, just that the best offer won't necessarily be the one that offers the most guaranteed dollars. Players seem to know this entering negotiations and then forget it. I would absolutely agree that any player considering taking less money to play somewhere they like should definitely demand a full, iron-clad, no-takebacks, no-trade clause.

I would absolutely agree that any player considering taking less money to play somewhere they like should definitely demand a full, iron-clad, no-takebacks, no-trade clause.

But, if you're going for "work environment", you also need the right to demand a trade. It's just as likely that the environment could change over a 6-7 period.

bunyon:

No idea other than the club is VERY worried as Prince gained what looked to be 25 lbs or so DURING the season. Who does that?

He showed up lighter at spring training. But as the season passed he heavier and his defense went from bad to awful to buffoonish.

And he became incapable of hitting a good inside fastball as witnessed by how the Phillies pitched him. Seriously, I don't think he could get around his own stomach.

Most disconcerting......

He looked worse than Mo at times. Even with the Mets Mo still gave the impression of being a big, muscular guy. He just looked more like an offensive lineman than a ballplayer. Prince is just flabby.

It's doubly concerting because his dad basically ate his way out of baseball as well. Apples, trees, all that.

I know of a few vegetarian who were not skinny.
Neither beer nor doritos contain meat.

my wife (who doesn't follow baseball that much, other than to occasionally humor me) asked me what that "CC" guy looked like after hearing me talk about how ridiculous a year he was having.
I said "he's a big tall black guy, kinda heavy set"
Fielder came up to bat immediately after she asked this and she said
"good lord - you didn't say he was that fat"

he looked huge, tiny elvis.

My wife, a vegetarian of 20+ years and accomplished distance runner, said that she was offended by Fielder. I asked how and she said a 25 year old professional athlete should not look like that.

As a baseball fan, I am offended by your wife.

There is a reason baseball is my favorite game. There is no mold. Last year's AL MVP is 8 inches taller than the Shortstops he grew up watching. This years AL MVP is going to be one of the smallest men in the league.

CC Sabbathia is a really big, huge guy who no one would confuse with a triathlete. His performance down the stretch led many to compare him to another dominating lefty, who some would compare to a triathlete, the uberathletic Sandy Koufax.

There is one way to be a baseball player, if you can swing the bat, if you can throw a curve, you can stick in the show.

And that is why baseball is my favorite sport.

Vegetarian != healthy.

I have not seen the person that made me realize this in years. In this case, I'm certainly glad.

I'm not saying that I expected him to become a rail after being a Veg for awhile. But a big diet change combined with the fact that very few MLBers actually gain weight during a grind of a season (as Harv mentions above) makes Prince's big gain stick out all the more to me.

Great post Sj.

sj, I completely agree. She and I went round and round a bit on it and "offended" is really a bit over the top. She was just really surprised. And, given that I agree with all you say about "no one way" I usually will give a guy a break or even celebrate his non-comformist body. But Prince looks different and the trajectory he's on is much steeper than most guys. Someone invoked a comparison to Mo. But it's important to remember that Mo didn't get "really, really big" until he was in his early 30s. To be as big as he is at 24(?) is a huge red flag - not just for his playing but for his overall health.

Sure, you can be a vegetarian and drink lots of beer and eat lots of chips but usually those choosing a veg lifestyle don't do that.

obviously, he is unhealthy though. I think "offended" is a little strong though

And that is why baseball is my favorite sport.

Gives an undersized kid some hope and makes him work hard at his sport - even if I was out of organized by, oh, age 12, I never even considered playing football because that door was automatically closed.

are poison-pill escalators legal for baseball contracts? such as... I will sign for this hometown discount at 5-years at $15 million per, but if I am traded my contract increases to $25 million per.

Well, I'm with my wife because I was there an know what her tone was. I didn't give the entire conversation and obviously distracted you guys from her point, a legitimate one, IMO, by including her word "offended". Yes, it's probably over the top. No, it isn't really what she meant.

This will be my last clarification (see 38) for my first attempt. She was really surprised. Her offended statment was basically that she is being asked to accept a guy's professional behavior and he's clearly not demonstrating it. On that I'm with her. If you won't accept a guy not running hard down the lines or loafing after a ball on defense why is acceptable for the guy to balloon up over the season. Taking offense is too extreme a way to put it, which she agreed with, but saying that baseball allows many different body types to succeed shouldn't excuse such obvious disregard for conditioning. Now, whether that is an unavoidable thing on Prince's part - just a genetic part of him that he's going to be really fat or whether he's actually not taking care of himself, I don't know.

FWIW, kevin, my wife doesn't sound much like your brother. She is really supportive of everyone being active in whatever amount they can do. I do know the type you describe though where distance running is some sort of religion with the better runners being high priests. Annoying gits.

I accept your clarification.

I just wanted on my soapbox, and to remind myself why I love baseball during this very difficult October.

Fair enough. And it was an eloquent and beautiful argument.

It really was my storytelling that was bad. Most of our discussion (wife's and mine) was about the possibility of his leading what would traditionally be called a veggie lifestyle. To her, and most veggies I know, it is more about "healthy" eating (and/or "not cruel" to animals, of course). I'm not sure where Prince falls on that scale (ha!) but it seems obvious to me that his diet sucks. And I was speculating that if he's always eaten a lot of meat and suddenly stopped that he might have just replaced the calories with junk. I'd say paying a dietician to live with him for a month or something might be a good idea.

But, as I say, I have no idea. Perhaps the poor SOB is really taking care of himself and this is the best he can do. I doubt it, but I have no firsthand knowledge. Nor does my wife, despite her crush on Craig Counsell (which I think she maintains just to piss me off).

There, that should turn you guys well and fully against her.

According to Rotoworld, Ryan Braun says Sabathia indicated to him that he might take a short contract for huge money, and not require a long contract. It seems like that would make the Brewers more likely to sign him; $50 million for 2 years or something like that would be doable, since there wouldn't be the long-term risk. But he'd be crazy to do something like that, and I'm sure his agent won't let him.

Nah, counsell is a nice player. Useful, knows his role, can play a ton of positions, not Melky-bad with the bat.

Her "crush" started in 1997 when she commented on his youthful looks and slight build. He was a Marlin and he annoyed me (being a Braves fan) because, as you say, he's a useful player. So I think I expressed my irritation which, if you've been married, you know you should never, ever do. He kept appearing in the postseason (about the only time she watches much) and she kept pointing him out and how he must be really good and he was still thin and young looking (not sure what she was driving at there), etc. Grrrr.

Prince's weight issue has me wondering if his wife has come up with a recipe for carmelized okra or some such.

That or he's dipping every vegetable in chocolate and peanut butter...........

Sheets didn't *just* have the quirky injuries. Two years ago he tore the muscle in his shoulder blade. No, that's not a common injury, but it was pitching-related, and I believe it's a result of his high-torque delivery. Then last year he had a sore shoulder off and on, and now the elbow. Does he even know whether he's going to be able to pitch next year? Has his course of treatment for the elbow been determined?

And of course Babe Ruth didn't exactly look like Johnny Weismuller and yet he managed to have a pretty good and lengthy career.

As for Prince Fielder, he may have gotten fatter as the season progressed, but September was his best month in terms of OPS. So maybe it affected him in the Phillies series but he had some good games in September. I don't know. His month by month OPS: .813-.807-.922-.965-.780-.998. Not sure when weight issues started hurting his offense.

And of course Babe Ruth didn't exactly look like Johnny Weismuller and yet he managed to have a pretty good and lengthy career.

True, but Babe didn't get fat until his 30's. He was always a big guy (barrel chest, skiny legs), but not fat until he got old. I also don't think he was ever as fat as Fielder is now. At 40, Ruth was thinner than Fielder is at 24.

Edit: B-Ref has Fielder at 6'0, 260. Wow! Those things are usually understatements, correct? Ruth was 6'2", and I'm pretty sure he never came close to 260; B-Ref has 215, but I'm sure he was bigger than that at the end. I'd guess 235-240.

all "vegetarian" means is that you don't eat any chicken red meat or fish. or seafood i guess. or eggs and or milk

what on earth that has got to do with "healthy" i do not get. you can be a "vegetarian" eating deep fried vegetables in gravy with boston baked beans and having a couple dozen crispy creems for dessert. and eating cookies and crackers all day. along with bags of doritoes. and pounds of cashews/peanuts/mac nuts

ALL "vegetarian"

i got no idea why refusal to eat meat/chicken/fish/eggs/milk is supposed to be lower calorie. or "healthier"

unless all you really DO eat is green vegetables

- as for prince
i don't guess i see how that particular guy is ever NOT gonna have, um, girth

50 million for 2 years or something like that would be doable, since there wouldn't be the long-term risk. But he'd be crazy to do something like that, and I'm sure his agent won't let him.

I dont think he would be crazy to do that, he's just betting on his own good health. And if loses the bet, he still has $50 million guaranteed. If he is healthy and effective for those 2 years he will be able to get a huge contract (long or short) and end up with way more $/per year.

One shouldn't expect Prince to hit 50 HR every year, and his numbers were decent, but after all the noise he made about getting paid, and then refusing to listen to long-term offers, the weight gain might point to a lack of commitment. Or it could simply be ignorance to the fact that vegetarian does not necessarily equal healthful. He says he switched mainly for moral reasons, anyway. He read that book about how Farmer Harvey treats his animals.

He read that book about how Farmer Harvey treats his animals.

Is this a jest or accusation?

Follow Up:

I expect an answer. Don't wander in here and make that type of comment without being prepared to clarify its intent.

Loren:

I specifically mentioned his defense in post 30.

And have mentioned his defense in other threads at other times.

And will repeat again, check out the defense.

As for his offense it was highly concentrated even within a month's time. If you break down his season Prince would have 10 games spurts of great output and then go some time with sporadic offense. I have followed his entire career and it was totally out of character for him. And Prince was a VERY predictable guy in not only the expected output for a season but in the manner in which it was achieved.

or eggs and or milk

That'd be "vegan," not just "vegetarian."

Dudes, 260 is ####### ########.

He is three bills if I am a day and a half.

FWIW, a plain Jane vegetarian will likely eat eggs and/or dairy. It's a vegan who won't eat any animal products. There is endless terminology for the finer grains of vegetarianism, which we won't get in to.

Lots of people who drop meat from their diets simply replace it with starches, which is clearly not a positive step for one's health. I've heard people differentiate between "vegetarians" and "starchitarians", with the idea that you aren't a very proper vegetarian if you dont eat some, you know, vegetables. Pasta and grated cheese is not something to try and live on.

all "vegetarian" means is that you don't eat any chicken red meat or fish. or seafood i guess. or eggs and or milk


As mentioned, you thinking of vegans. I know some vegetarians who don't eat eggs. I personally am not a big fan. Can eat an omelette or cake now and then, but not too much of it.
As a life long vegetarian, and coming from a country which has good vegetarian options, vegetarian food is healthy food is a myth. In fact, for Americans who have "converted", it is even harder as being brought up on a diet of meat, a meal with no meat leaves you slightly empty and makes you eat more. Also, I guess you have to eat more to get your daily intake of vitamins and proteins.

Its very hard to convert. kudos to him if he did, but you don't have to stop eating meat to eat healthy. Though, if anyone wants to, I can help you eat healthy yet tasty vegetarian food!!

Gives an undersized kid some hope and makes him work hard at his sport - even if I was out of organized by, oh, age 12, I never even considered playing football because that door was automatically closed.

Doug Flutie says, "Hello."
(Yes, he's definitely the exception to the rule.)

No offense, Harvey.

HSF:

Understood. Between my time in the service and my primary occupation I have relatives who term me a "murderer". I like to know where I stand with folks.

Prince hired a personal trainer during I believe his senior year in HS, and he was doing great. He no doubt had him on some variant of a low-carb diet. Prince will be playing for some big money in the next couple of years, though, so I expect to see him in the best shape of his life. I know that sounds really cynical, but so be it.

The real fraud is the organic foodies.

Being a veggie doesn't mean you eat healthy though for many veg-heads it is a religion so I can see how somebody thinks somebody isn't vegetarian simply because they are not skinny.

That or he's dipping every vegetable in chocolate and peanut butter...........

Nah, he's frying every vegetable in chocolate and peanut butter, after, coating in it breadcrumbs and batter.

My wife, a vegetarian of 20+ years and accomplished distance runner, said that she was offended by Fielder. I asked how and she said a 25 year old professional athlete should not look like that. I told her he was aware of the problem and adopted a vegetarian lifestyle to combat it. She said he was not vegetarian. When pressed, she admitted it may be technically true that he doesn't eat meat but that he's clearly not eating a healthy diet either.


Now, I'm not as anti-fat as she is (anyone who has met me knows this) but I think she may be on to something. It wouldn't surprise me at all if, in dropping meat, he's made up for it with junk.

I'm not jumping on your wife, but she really needs to take a look at more athletes than distance runners. Take a look at the superheavyweights in weightlifting, both male and female. Superfically, to a layperson, they don't fit the aesthetic ideal of an athlete. Most of the males typically weigh about 150+ KGs, 330+ pounds. The women are lighter, but still typically around 130 KGs, ~285 pounds. Nearly all have bulging bellies. Yet, besides being extremely strong, they are also (surprisingly) athletic. Shane Hamman, the former US national champion, could dunk standing flatfooted, and also do a backflip.

I'm not saying that Fielder is similar, but physical "shape" with superficial looks can be deceiving.

If you won't accept a guy not running hard down the lines or loafing after a ball on defense why is acceptable for the guy to balloon up over the season.

I agree with this. I especially don't see how being fat, among players, is not only tolerated, but in some cases, "we're not selling jeans here", held up somehow as exploiting a "market inefficiency".

She said he was not vegetarian. When pressed, she admitted it may be technically true that he doesn't eat meat but that he's clearly not eating a healthy diet either.

I agree with your wife. C.C. Sabathia qualifies as meat. I read the article, in America's finest investigative reporting newspaper, about Fielder and Sabathia trying to eat each other.

are poison-pill escalators legal for baseball contracts? such as... I will sign for this hometown discount at 5-years at $15 million per, but if I am traded my contract increases to $25 million per.

I thought that some contracts had "assignment bonuses" that function similarly, but use one-time payouts (usually small, like 1 MM).

Doug Flutie says, "Hello."

What is he, like 5' 10", 180? His voice alone would crush me. I am a small person.

all "vegetarian" means is that you don't eat any chicken red meat or fish. or seafood i guess. or eggs and or milk

I'm a vegetarian. From my experience, from myself and vegetarian friends, vegetarian is no animal flesh, and eggs. Whereas vegans don't eat any animal products: flesh, eggs, milk, cheese. I have known some extremists who wouldn't even touch honey.

i got no idea why refusal to eat meat/chicken/fish/eggs/milk is supposed to be lower calorie. or "healthier"

unless all you really DO eat is green vegetables

Being vegetarian probably actually makes it more difficult to eat healthy, especially in modern society; with chips, sugared soft drinks, doritos, various sweet snacks like Ho Hos etc, available in abundance, for most beginner vegetarians, the meat is usually replaced with junk.

I have known some extremists who wouldn't even touch honey.

Fifth-level vegans don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

Lacto-ovo will eat dairy products, and then there are lacto-veg and ovo-veg

A true vegan does not eat any animal products or use any animal products.

The halfwayers generally just eschew red meat.

Being vegetarian probably actually makes it more difficult to eat healthy, especially in modern society;


I would disagree. Sure a novice teenager who simply says "I'm going veggie" is likely to make poor choices. But in today's society it is much much easier to have a well diverse diet and not touch animal products. Try being a vegan in the 80's when the supermarket had iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, cucs, and bell peppers.

I eat nothing but air, light, and fear.

I eat nothing but air, light, and fear.

No human souls?

THere is self-selection at issue too. Those who choose to go veggie are, very often, those who want to be healthier. Yes, if you made me give up meat, I'd probably replace it with crap. But I wouldn't choose to give up meat in the first place.

It isn't that not eating meat is necessarily healthier, it's that those who choose not to eat meat tend to have health more in mind than those that don't consider their diets at all. It looks pretty clear to me that Prince is an exception to my (admittedly anecdotal) theory.

Harveys Wallbangers Posted: October 06, 2008 at 01:34 PM (#2971637)

HSF:

Understood. Between my time in the service and my primary occupation I have relatives who term me a "murderer". I like to know where I stand with folks.

- sigh

you got some seriously nutcase relatives. not that i am throwing stones, mind

unless you made up your whole life for us you are one of the most decent men i ever known

Fifth-level vegans don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

That was me for a while, but I got tired of living on a diet of vampires and ninjas.

Fifth-level vegans don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

what, you don't pocket-mulch?

Fifth-level vegans

Oh, c'mon, not another Dungeons & Dragons thread.

Fifth-level vegans don't eat anything that casts a shadow.

Whereupon they promptly starve to death before gaining enough experience points to reach 6th level?

Oh, c'mon, not another Dungeons & Dragons thread.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I would disagree. Sure a novice teenager who simply says "I'm going veggie" is likely to make poor choices. But in today's society it is much much easier to have a well diverse diet and not touch animal products. Try being a vegan in the 80's when the supermarket had iceberg lettuce, tomatoes, cucs, and bell peppers.

I guess should have clarified what I meant by "modern". I included the 80s in the modern period.

I agree that it's easier to be a vegan now than in the 80s. But it still doesn't change the fact that a vegetarian, and a vegan especially, needs to drastically alter his / her diet, unless (s)he was already eating a diet based on tofu, vegetables, soy derived products like veggie burgers, legumes, etc.

And while there are more healthy vegan / vegetarian food choices now compared to the 80s, that still doesn't change the fact that unhealthy food choices are much more easily available, and cheaper, than healthy food choices. And that most people are already used to eating chips / doritos, Ho Hos, Butterfingers etc, and not veggieburgers / tofu.

That or he's dipping every vegetable in chocolate and peanut butter...........



Nah, he's frying every vegetable in chocolate and peanut butter, after, coating in it breadcrumbs and batter.

Is this the wrong time to pimp my home countries national dish: Deep-fried Mars Bars?

I'm not saying that Fielder is similar, but physical "shape" with superficial looks can be deceiving.

William "The Refrigerator" Perry could dunk a basketball. He could also do a standing high jump up onto a three-foot desk. He was IIRC 6'2" and a sloppy 325#.

Whereupon they promptly starve to death before gaining enough experience points to reach 6th level?

No; at fifth level you acquire the spell "Transparent Beets". It's not pleasant, but you get by.

take CC at his word for some reason, so my free-agent detector makes me believe he won't be a Yankee.

Nor do I think he'll be a Brewer.

I said Yankees after the trade. Still see it as the most likely outcome.

Still see it as the most likely outcome.

Is it safe to say that the Dodgers and Angels are out of the running? He's always said that he'd like to play in LA.

I can help you eat healthy yet tasty vegetarian food!!

No need--I find veggies quite tasty thank you very much!

The key (with a lot of them) is don't cook them--it takes away all the flavour.

I did vegetarian for awhile (and still eat very little meat) when I had some heart issues and there are a lot of soybean products that help with the ol' meat cravings.

Best Regards

John

Pro basketball players, despite being young, tall and lanky on average, eat surprisingly poorly. Lots of pizza, fast food, and pastry and drink carbs.

Despite that, NBA fat guys still have skills. Past and present include Ledell Eackles, John "Hot Plate" Williams, Oliver Miller, Baron Davis. (I'm excluding the guys who got fat in their 30s, like Shaq.) I'm probably forgetting a few others.

Pro basketball players, despite being young, tall and lanky on average, eat surprisingly poorly. Lots of pizza, fast food, and pastry and drink carbs.

Derrick Rose once begged out of practice with a tummy-ache. According his Memphis teammates his diet consists mainly of gummy bears.