We give "old school" types a lot of crap around here, but the mistakes they make are generally on the margin or, at worst, delaying the inevitable by half a season or so. That is, even Ned Colletti knows Pierre as a LF is pretty nuts ... and if he didn't, he'd have figured it out by July.

Not to mention the Torre guy filling out the lineup card.

Let's see what happens when the Dodgers don't get off to the best start in baseball and they need to give the lineup a "spark" aroud April 20th....

Then I'll believe that the Dodgers don't have their heads up their asses.

even Ned Colletti knows Pierre as a LF is pretty nuts
I just wish he realized, during the 2006-07 offseason, Pierre as a CF (starting, anyway) was nuts.
But what's past as past, and the present looks brighter because of this decision.

This is great news and makes me really happy. I'd like to see what Ethier and Kemp can do. And, honestly, after being spoiled by all those amazing OBP machines in NY, I'd find it hard to believe Torre could've sat through a season of Pierre doing anything he can to get on base, except for, of course, taking a walk when it's there for him. Torre has made millions off of teams that got on-base and avoided outs, and has lived well off of meat-grinder line-ups. Plus, the Pierre deal was there before him. I would've been shocked if he had been willing to do something he knows is a bad idea, and respected a deal that came before him, and helped to get the previous guy canned. I also agree with what someone said on the last thread that indicated the possibility that Pierre might be benched: it'll be interesting to see how Pierre handles this, and if he really has all the leadership skills folks are always foisting upon him.

About. Time.

With this out of the way, now I just hope DeWitt and Hu aren't overmatched.

Not to mention the Torre guy filling out the lineup card.

True, Torre eventually did figure out that Tony Womack isn't a real left fielder either.

Let's see what happens when the Dodgers ... need ... a "spark" aroud [sic] April 20th....

I think I know what they'll do. Just saying.

True, Torre eventually did figure out that Tony Womack isn't a real left fielder either.
How often did Torre have players forced upon him?
I have a feeling that Dodgers management isn't quite as vehement about the manager playing Their Guys, come hell or .331 OBP.

DAMNIT

Has anyone run the numbers about what a full season of Ethier (or Kemp) vs. Pierre means, in terms of runs created/wins?

Ethier/Kemp/Jones is gonna be a hell of an outfield.

I think I know what they'll do. Just saying.

Trade for Dave Roberts?

even Ned Colletti knows Pierre as a LF is pretty nuts

Are you sure?

"Is he a bench player or is he not starting tomorrow?" Colletti asked. "It's a long season.

I don't have a link, but apparently Ned is touchy about this. Not only did he take flak for the initial signing, but now he has to watch his first big decision ride the pine AND Pierre is giving him grief for bringing in Jones.
Pierre should STFU.
Ned, meanwhile, should avoid all contact with agents and other GMs, while listening only to Kim Ng and Logan White.

I sure hope that Ned prevails over Joe to play Juan some more. My biggest hope has been 1000 PA's for Pierre and Nomar combined. Obviously that isn't going to happen. It's probably going to be more like 500 PA's for those two guys, and that's not enough to sink the Dodgers ship.

They are the team to beat if Kemp and Ethier combine for 1100 PA's or more.

even Ned Colletti knows Pierre as a LF is pretty nuts

Juan Pierre to Cincinnati just makes too much sense not to happen. I bet Dusty is lobbying for it as we speak. After all, a .331 OBP from your left fielder is pretty nuts, but not nearly as absurd as having a load like Adam Dunn clogging up the bases forty percent of the time. Plus, Pierre is better suited to handle the dog days of August. It's simple Darwinism.

They are the team to beat if Kemp and Ethier combine for 1100 PA's or more.
However, if DeWitt and Hu aren't ready, and Kent, Abreu and LaRoche struggle with injuries, then there could be some real problems.

Well, sure...injury can sabotage any team. At the end of the day, there are 4 teams that can win the NL West if they have a very healthy year. More than likely the division will be decided by health and which team holds up best to the war of attrition.

The D backs have Johnson, Tracy and Montero on the DL, although all 3 are supposed to be back by mid April, and Doug Davis is going to miss at least 6 weeks starting April 10th. Basically, by the time he finishes his surgery and recovery, and then goes too the minors to get his arm strength back up, it will be June 1, (assuming no complications or setbacks, god willing). We are going to be seeing a lot of Edgar Gonzalez and Yusmeiro Petit, and of course Owings had a horrible spring. So lots of question marks in the rotation. Those can be answered by a strong comeback by Johnson, but nobody is betting on that at this point. (Well, except for Levski and Josh Byrnes ;)

On top of that, they have no depth or viable backup at first base if Conor Jackson gets hurt and are going to be relying heavily on Augie Ojeda and Chris Burke to fill in around the infield. (career OPS+ of 63 and 80 respectively) So everything is going to have to break just right for the D Backs too. They gotta get healthy and stay healthy.

Just a thought after reading the Woody Williams thread that's at the top of Hot Topics now:

Pierre may "deserve" this as a matter of physical talent. He shouldn't be the Dodgers' starting LF becuase he's not one of their three best outfielders. But I've never seen any indication that he didn't dedicate himself fully to his baseball job, or give anything other than a full measure of effort. He's been as good a player as he could have been.

I also don't expect any human being to take demotion well, especially one with the ego needed to be a professional athlete. I suspect that Pierre is human.

Besides injuries, every team has an X factor - for the Dodgers it's probably Kershaw. The Dodgers have made it clear they expect him up the second half of the season, after he dominated spring training (14 innings, 19 ks, 3 walks, 8 hits - the only run allowed a solo homerun in an inning he struck out the side). His minor league work has already been planned to be a combination of starting and relieving so he will still be fresh for the summer. I will be thrilled to see him up in the majors, hopefully dominating, come this summer. But the other teams undoubtedly have surprises waiting too.

Pierre may "deserve" this as a matter of physical talent.

I think you mean he might deserve starting because of the hard work he does. The truth is, his physical talent makes him marginal as a major leaguer, since he has a weak throwing arm and not enough power to be a good outfielder.

If he had the arm to be a good defensive centerfielder, or even better could play a good middle infielder, his offensive shortcomings would have him still in the lineup.

What has led him to be a major leaguer at all is that his IS a hard worker.

However, now that he is on the decline phase we will see if he is actually a good teammate. It's easy to be a good teammate if that involves you playing every day. It's less easy if it involves you being a bench player. Eric Karros found that out.

I meant that, as a matter of talent, he deserves to lose his job, even though he works hard. It's a merciless business. I'm not disagreeing with anything akrasian said. And as for akrasian's last paragraph - well, as he says, it's not easy.

Ah, my bad OCF. I misread your post. Sorry.

letting a rookie start over a vet wasn't a frequent event in nyc. jeter / fernandez, and i guess cano / womack, but even that took time.

I suspect that Pierre is human.

I dunno, most humans have learned to walk by the time they're his age.

I dunno, most humans have learned to walk by the time they're his age.
Snarktastic!

"With this out of the way, now I just hope DeWitt and Hu aren't overmatched."

Apropos of nothing, I was just looking in my Yahoo fantasy league, and apparently their back-end won't support player name search strings of fewer than three letters. Could be a problem for any Hu fans out there.

I dunno, most humans have learned to walk by the time they're his age.
Snarktastic!

Edmundo, I think your worthwhile goal of 25% less snark is, sadly, turning you into a snark voyeur.


Pervert.

Apropos of nothing, I was just looking in my Yahoo fantasy league, and apparently their back-end won't support player name search strings of fewer than three letters. Could be a problem for any Hu fans out there.
Perhaps Yahoo can craft a workaround by renaming him "Hoo."

letting a rookie start over a vet wasn't a frequent event in nyc. jeter / fernandez, and i guess cano / womack, but even that took time.

Cano didn't really start over Womack. When Cano was called up, they shifted Womack to LF and kept him at second in the order (Cano hit 9th).

Apropos of nothing, I was just looking in my Yahoo fantasy league, and apparently their back-end won't support player name search strings of fewer than three letters. Could be a problem for any Hu fans out there.
Perhaps Yahoo can craft a workaround by renaming him "Hoo."

With Ned Colletti as the Grinch?

Edmundo, I think your worthwhile goal of 25% less snark is, sadly, turning you into a snark voyeur.
Hmm, I wonder what our HS headmaster, Fr. Senye, would have said if I asked him about whether "voyeuring" snarkiness was less of a sin than actually snarking. The true test would have been the penance received in Confession. Of course small sample sizes would cause problems and rerunning the tests enough to overcome SSS would have raised the good father's suspicions and he would have slapped a random major penance on me, like cleaning the basement in the rectory...

...and he would have slapped a random major penance on me, like cleaning the basement in the rectory...

Oofdah! That's not good...

"cleaning the basement in the rectory"

I read this three times, and I still can't believe that it isn't a euphemism.

I read this three times, and I still can't believe that it isn't a euphemism.
AFAIK, in my high school, there was no priestly hanky panky other than the headmaster himself and the homely secretary. Even my dad, who is decidedly not snarky, said she was the homeliest woman he had ever seen. The borders at our school had claimed all along to have seen them walking in the woods holding hands. But since he went to the Pope himself for a dispensation of his priestly vows, got them, married her and donated their estate 30 years later to the HS, I would think they were on the up and up.

Cano didn't really start over Womack. When Cano was called up, they shifted Womack to LF and kept him at second in the order (Cano hit 9th).

Womack started the year batting 9th
when Cano was called up Womack batted 2nd and Cano 9th- for about 6 weeks

Womack lost his regular gig for good at the end of June, Cano was moved to 2nd in the order.