FACTS:

1. Matt Stairs is a mammal

2. Brad Lidge shuts down offenses ALL the time

3. The purpose of Shane Victorino is to flip out and kill people

Matt Stairs is a mammal

But does he do it like they do it on the Discovery Channel?

I switched to the MNF game with the Bums comfortably ahead (5-2, I think). Next thing I saw, Lidge was closing out the game.
Haven't read the recap, but I imagine that at one point, Joe Torre rediscovered his old magic gift for bullpen management...

Haven't read the recap, but I imagine that at one point, Joe Torre rediscovered his old magic gift for bullpen management...

You nailed it - this is in his all time top 5.

The Phillies deserve credit, but other teams are sure making it easy on them. If they only lose Moyer's games, they're in pretty good shape.

Game 5 is on Wednesday? What kind of weird scheduling is this?

If Philadelphia and Tampa make the WS, here is an exhaustive list of players who have played in the WS before:
Pedro Feliz
So Taguchi (2x)
Eric Bruntlett (0 PAs!)
Brad Lidge
Cliff Floyd (2 PAs!)
Eric Hinske (1 PA!)
Dan Wheeler

A utility IF from a losing team, a pinch hit specialist that was in two series, a closer and his setup man from a team that got swept, a utility infielder who never really played, and two fifth outfielders who never really played. I hope grandma is ready to learn some new names.

Game 5 is on Wednesday? What kind of weird scheduling is this?

The same question was posed in an ALCS thread. The networks are the drivers.

Fox isn't going to bump "House."

Anyway, there are probably some employees at the fictional Princeton-Plainsboro who are Phillies fans because they live in Bucks County where the housing is cheaper.

I was only half-paying attention in the top of the 8th... Could someone explain why Torre is seen as spitting the bit with the bullpen here? I'm not entirely seeing it, unless folks wanted Broxton for a 2 inning save (considering the off day tomorrow). Is that what's being 2nd guessed? If so, does Broxton have a history of 2-inning saves?

My apologies for being an AL guy and thus largely ignorant of the senior circuit outside of Philly (since that is the hometown team)...

The Russell Martin double play killed me dead. What a wasted opportunity. Then to threaten each of the next two innings and do nothing. When will someone not named Manny come through in a pinch?

Ugh, the bullpen use was pretty bad too. Why was Kershaw pitching the 6th with a one-run lead. Actually why was Lowe pulled, I mean 74 pitches through 5 WTF? So you replace the starter who's cruising with a low pitch count with a 20 year old rookie in a one-run game. This game was both argle-bargle and foofarah.

If Philadelphia and Tampa make the WS, here is an exhaustive list of players who have played in the WS before:

Scott Eyre was on the '02 Giants. Also Troy Percival, though I suppose you omitted him for injury.

TE - I listened to the ESPN Radio overnight dude's take on Torre's bullpen management. His position (and I suspect he hasn't watched more than 5 full innings of any LAD game this year -- it was purely to stir the pot) was that was H.C. Kuo was their most talented relief pitcher, who carved up 3 guys in a row in the 7th, allowed one single to Howard to start the 8th, then got auto-replaced by Torre without hesitation with Burrell due up, and that this was soooooo stoopid.

We all know, though, from his NYY history, that that's what Torre does. If Scott Proctor was healthy at all, he would have been the man, and been inserted in exactly the same situation. From what I have seen of Wade this year, he certainly could have gotten thru one scoreless inning -- just as Proctor/Nelson/Stanton/Farnsworth/Karsay/et al used to do in New York. And then Broxton would have pitched a 1-2-3 ninth, and ballgame.

It was just luck that he didn't have it tonight. And then Torre argle-bargled and put in a closer who wasn't Mariano, and there you go. Torre's mystique and aura are maintained, while his ballplayers have let him down.

Stairs quoted:
"My whole career, even back in the early days, my approach was try to hit the ball out of the ballpark," he said. "And it's something I enjoyed doing. In batting practice, I try to hit every ball out of the ballpark. I'm not going to lie, it's fun. I try to hit home runs and that's it. I'm not going to hit a single and steal second base. So I think the biggest thing is to get up there, swing hard and elevate."

but ... but ... but ... you can't win with that approach in the playoffs!

Stairs had an even funnier quote about getting pounded in the ass by men.

Yeah I heard that, it actually went something more like getting his "ass pounded by a bunch of guys".

Listen to Stairs' quote from #14.

Can't find any A/V of the "pounded" quote. Probably a good reason for that.

And, unsurprisingly, googling "Matt Stairs 'ass pounded'" gets you nothing but gay erotica. I can only hope people have been writing Matt Stairs slash fics.

Yeah...

Anyway, it's tough to fault Torre for bringing in Wade there. He did get Burrell out, and the pitch to Vic was a good one (maybe not the best place to pitch Victorino, but the pitch itself was executed well). I don't think there are many managers in baseball who would have left a lefthander in to face Burrell as the tying run.

The real mistake was burning through all the lefties early in the game.

Here is the quote, BTW, from today's Daily News and the either very sly or very dense David Murphy. Good stuff.

"You want to get that one big hit where you feel like you're part of the team,'' Stairs said. "Not that I don't feel like I'm part of the team, by no means, but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done.''

If Philadelphia and Tampa make the WS, here is an exhaustive list of players who have played in the WS before:

No matter which of the four teams wins the WS, at least one player on that team will be winning his second (at least) ring.

Trivia time: Which were the last two teams to win the WS which consisted only of players who had never won the WS before?

Random-ass guess for one: '97 Marlins
Random-ass guess for the other: '85 Royals

Random-ass guess for one: '97 Marlins

Devon White, '92-'93 Jays

Random-ass guess for the other: '85 Royals

Skates, '80 Phils and '82 Cardinals (and then went on to lose with the '91 Braves -- how come I never read about he just "knew how to win"?)

Good guesses in that both were young, unheralded teams, but no. Those clutchy veteran goodness presences lurk everywhere.

'95 Braves? They were mostly the same core of WS losers.

Skates, '80 Phils and '82 Cardinals (and then went on to lose with the '91 Braves -- how come I never read about he just "knew how to win"?)

Because you weren't reading? There was plenty of "Good teams follow him around" type stories in the early 90's.

'95 Braves? They were mostly the same core of WS losers.

Alejandro Pena, '88 Dodgers.

2002 Angels had Clay Bellinger (1 AB during the season) and Dennis Cook (24 IP), but no one who actually played for them in the series had a previous ring.

I'd guess that it's some fluke team from before the free agent era. Since few players changed teams, and there were eras of domination by just a few teams, a team that snuck into a WS title would have mostly homegrown players.

I'd guess that it's some fluke team from before the free agent era. Since few players changed teams, and there were eras of domination by just a few teams, a team that snuck into a WS title would have mostly homegrown players.

The parameters of the question have to be defined. Are we looking for a team which never once during the season had a player who had once been on the roster of a team which won the WS? Like Team A had a player B who had one AB in May, and Player B also had one AB in May 5 years ago for Team C which then won the WS, thus team A is not the answer.

Or is it more liberal like my answer in #27?

Man... everyone I've looked at back through the '68 Tigers has had someone from a previous winner (except for the '02 Angels). Edit: Unless the '02 Angels don't count.

1903 Boston Americans?

who on the 2003 Marlins had won a WS before?

2002 Angels

The ambiguity you describe spoils the question a little. This wasn't one of the two teams I had in mind, but you do have a case.

Of course everyone has worked out that Craig Counsell from the '97 Marlins was the spoiler for the '01 D-Backs.

who on the 2003 Marlins had won a WS before?

Jeff Conine was on the '97 Marlins.

The 1966 Orioles are the most recent team I've found with no prior champions.

Seriously.

Jeff Conine was on the '97 Marlins.

of course, Mr. Marlin. Shoulda known.

everyone I've looked at back through the '68 Tigers

So close ....

who on the 2003 Marlins had won a WS before?

Andy Fox and (stretching things) Gerald Williams.

Edit: what #35 said.

Random-ass guess for one: '97 Marlins

Devon White, '92-'93 Jays

Al Leiter was also on the '93 Jays

1966 Orioles

Bingo!

Not too many years before that was the other team I had in mind.

"...but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done."

Now we know why Vaux wants the Phillies to lose. Rank homophobia!

Not too many years before that was the other team I had in mind.

'64 Cards?

Looks like the '55 Dodgers. The '64 Cards had Dick Groat, from the '60 Pirates.

'64 Cards

Dick Groat, '60 Pirates.

Edit: once again, too slow. Yes, '55 Dodgers is the other team.

googling "Matt Stairs 'ass pounded'" gets you nothing but gay erotica.

Try searching for Don Zimmer and Beano Cook Nazi-porn if you really want to be turned on.

1966 Orioles

Bingo!

of course their manager had a boatload as a player

Plus Matt Stairs is wrong to say that he is "not going to hit a single and steal second base." He even did it on June 7 of this year!

TRY FACT-CHECKING ONCE IN A WHILE YOU GOONS

(I also like that Alex Rios was apparently caught stealing second against the same batter/pitcher, one inning earlier. How exactly did Stairs accomplish that?)

Plus Matt Stairs is wrong to say that he is "not going to hit a single and steal second base." He even did it on June 7 of this year!

Maybe he was just proclaiming that he's done it for the last time, what with singles and stolen bases being for pussies.

Plus Matt Stairs is wrong to say that he is "not going to hit a single and steal second base." He even did it on June 7 of this year!



Maybe he was just proclaiming that he's done it for the last time, what with singles and stolen bases being for pussies.

"...but when you get that nice celebration coming into the dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done."

This happens to everyone - no one gets excited to get to second base after they've hit the home run.

Love that Stairs quote about trying to hit a home run every time up. Bill Conlin's head must have exploded upon hearing that.

As for Torre's bullpen usage, admittedly I wasn't watching the game that closely, but one thing I noticed is that he pulled Lowe early and then proceeded to burn through three relievers to get through the 6th inning. The biggest indictment of Torre in this game may be that he saw fit to use six relievers to get through four innings. Eventually when you cycle through that many pitchers, you're going to find someone who doesn't have it that day, and Torre found more than one (Wade and Broxton).

Is there a good reason Kershaw couldn't have pitched to more than three hitters, given that he can be expected to pitch multiple innings and was replacing the starter in just the 6th inning?

Also, I noticed that Torre called on Broxton a day earlier to pitch the 9th inning, up 7-2. But I wouldn't criticize him for that, since Broxton hadn't pitched in a while. Still, the bullpen usage is odd.

This happens to everyone - no one gets excited to get to second base after they've hit the home run.

Seriously - hitting a single and stealing second base doesn't get your ass hammered by guys. What's the point?

This happens to everyone - no one gets excited to get to second base after they've hit the home run.
Heehee. I'd get excited if I was playing in a new ball park though, if you know what I mean.

Just don't change leagues, Edmundo.

Just don't change leagues, Edmundo.
Not that there's anything wrong with the other league.

Is there a good reason Kershaw couldn't have pitched to more than three hitters, given that he can be expected to pitch multiple innings and was replacing the starter in just the 6th inning?

He didn't look good at all. He walked Howard, went 3-1 on Burrell before giving up a single and only got Victorino because he gave himself up.

He didn't look good at all. He walked Howard, went 3-1 on Burrell before giving up a single and only got Victorino because he gave himself up.

He had 2 strikes on Howard, and went 3-2 (not 3-1) on Burrell before giving up the hit. And he was 0-1 on Victorino before Victorino bunted. The next three hitters were Dobbs/Feliz, Ruiz, and Jenkins/Taguchi. I think Kershaw could have continued.

And if Manuel ordering Victorino to bunt isn't idiotic enough on its face, it seems even more odd that Manuel would do so when facing a pitcher who was clearly struggling. Though I will never again over-estimate Manuel's level of competence. With his intentional walk of Ramirez in the first inning -- almost as if Manuel were watching his first major league game -- all bets are off.

I've been mostly defending Manuel for a couple of years, but the Victorino sacrifice was a really bad decision. The time to do damage was with the switch-hitter, because the next batter, whether Dobbs or Feliz, was going to have a platoon disadvantage and both suffer platoon splits.
Walking Manny in the first is something I probably wouldn't have done. As a manager, I don't want to build an aura of invincibility around an opponent, but Chollie's been around the bigs a lot longer than me so he gets the benefit of the doubt. Manny IS freakin' unconscious right now.

No way that walk of Ramirez in the first inning was sane. No way. I don't care if Manuel has managed for 15 years or 50.

Kershaw might have been fine, but with Kuo-Wade-Broxton lined up for the 7-8-9 innings, he would have only finished the inning anyway. Then the same thing would have happened in the 8th. I don't think Torre really messed that up.

Kershaw might have been fine, but with Kuo-Wade-Broxton lined up for the 7-8-9 innings, he would have only finished the inning anyway. Then the same thing would have happened in the 8th. I don't think Torre really messed that up.

But that's part of my complaint: Why are there three pitchers lined up for the 7-8-9 innings? Why does Torre have to pull Kershaw for the 7th if he's pitching well, just to take the chance that the next three pitchers will all be effective?

I'm not sure I agree with you. Normally, I'd be in favor of letting the guy pitching well stay in over going to the guy whose role it is, but all three of the short relievers had excellent seasons, last night not withstanding. To my mind there's a greater chance of Kershaw having a bad inning than any of them doing it, even if he had gotten through the 6th 1-2-3.

simers is really picking on joe about all the relievers. okay, maybe he should have left lowe in but if broxton had pitched to form this wouldn't be much of a discussion -- late inning tie game, the dodgers would have prob. pulled it out. but i guess that's why you play the games. i'm really bummed out ... now that i live here i'm getting to be a fan.

"...but when you get that nice celebration coming into The Dugout and you're getting your ass hammered by guys, it's no better feeling than to have that done."

Yeah, we've heard all about the bathroom scene at The Dugout.