Red Sox barely contain glee at . . .

FWIW, after the Rodriguez play, Chamberlain threw 95 on the home run pitch to Michael Young, and 96 on his last pitch before leaving the game.

*Fist pump*

Roengardner Chamberlain had a good run.

Let's not overreact. He hurt himself diving out of the way of Pudge's throw to second. It'll probably put him on the DL, but I don't expect this to be a big issue for his future.

Let's not overreact. He hurt himself diving out of the way of Pudge's throw to second. It'll probably put him on the DL, but I don't expect this to be a big issue for his future.

Let's not underreact either. Hopefully it's nothing major - but shoulder injuries are always a concern for pitchers. We'll find out a lot more tomorrow. It could be the sort of injury that after a couple of days won't matter - or it could be something else. We just don't know. As I said, hopefully it's nothing major. But anytime an excellent young pitcher leaves the game clutching his pitching shoulder, there should be concern (same for non-excellent pitchers, of course - but they don't command threads about it).

I don't expect that they'll find any kind of damage to the shoulder, but I'm sure the Yankees will put him on the DL and wait until the discomfort is completely gone before they even let him throw a baseball.

Which hurts their playoff chances, even if there is nothing long term. It's not like their rotation is incredibly deep with healthy players. Who takes his spot?

Who takes his spot?

Livan?

Mark Prior was never the same after his non-throwing shoulder injury.

Who takes his spot?

Ian Kennedy is 5-2, 1.99 ERA, 8.1 K/9, 3.5/1 K/BB ratio in the minors. He couldn't find the plate in the majors at the beginning of the season, but I think he's fairly earned another shot.

Obviously he won't be Joba, but if he can go six innings and give up three runs, they'll be very happy.

This would have never happened if Jose Molina was in the game.

Mark Prior was never the same after his non-throwing shoulder injury.

What injury are you speaking of? The only shoulder injury of his that was his non-throwing shoulder I can find was the one he hurt in the 2003 collision with Giles, but he was 10-1 with a 1.52 ERA after that one.

And frankly, if it was a later injury, Prior has had so many injuries I don't think you can say any one was the reason he fell apart.

Didn't Chamberlain drop in the draft because of injury issues (in addition to concerns about his weight)? Was that about his shoulder, elbow, or something else?

Didn't Chamberlain drop in the draft because of injury issues (in addition to concerns about his weight)? Was that about his shoulder, elbow, or something else?

He had tendinitis in his triceps in 2006, but I don't think that would have scared anyone off. I think it was more that he was a big fat guy.

EDIT: He also had some knee injuries. That was probably a weight thing.

yrraL, Reports like this have been pretty common. It was his throwing shoulder.

yrraL, Reports like this have been pretty common. It was his throwing shoulder.

Then what was the non-throwing shoulder injury you speak of?

Then what was the non-throwing shoulder injury you speak of?

I believe you're parsing jwb's sentence wrong, Larry.

You're thinking "non-throwing shoulder injury."

I think jwb's saying "non-throwing shoulder injury."

In other words, an injury not related to throwing a baseball.

I believe you're parsing jwb's sentence wrong, Larry.

You're thinking "non-throwing shoulder injury."

I think jwb's saying "non-throwing shoulder injury."

In other words, an injury not related to throwing a baseball.

Well, then he's wrong. Prior was 10-1 with a 1.52 after the injury to his shoulder while not throwing the rest of the season. The problems came later, along with many other injuries.

Besides, the Yankees are taking a much more careful approach with Chamberlain than the Cubs ever did with Prior, and they're going to make absolutely sure that he's fine before he throws a baseball again.

I'm bothered that he'll miss time, because that hurts their playoff chances, but I'm not too worried about his future right now. He said after the game that nothing feels wrong structurally, and I'm inclined to believe him.

Dear Mike and Mike...shut the #### up. The Yankees have done nothing wrong in building Joba up. I understand that it is hard for mainstream media "baseball analysts" to get, but...Joba has started baseball games prior to this year.

What injury are you speaking of? The only shoulder injury of his that was his non-throwing shoulder I can find was the one he hurt in the 2003 collision with Giles, but he was 10-1 with a 1.52 ERA after that one.

Yes, but that is quite different from how he was pitching before the injury.

Well, I'm torn. I hate it when young player get hurt... BUUUUT I'm not sad that Joba might take a couple weeks off.

To be honest, as a Yankee fan, I wouldn't be upset if he missed a few weeks, either. I really don't think this is "our year" anyway, and I don't mind limiting his innings and giving IPK or Hughes opportunities to pitch to redeem their seasons. All that's on the assumption the injury is relatively minor. Should it be serious, I'll kill you all.

Thank you CFiJ for correcting my poor phrasing. "A non-throwing injury to his throwing shoulder" would have been a better construct.

I really don't think this is "our year" anyway

Still only two games back...but even missing Joba for just a couple of starts, all of a sudden the playoffs look like a real long shot.

And losing the way they did last night doesn't help feed any optimism. At least Nady is hitting.

Dear Mike and Mike...shut the #### up. The Yankees have done nothing wrong in building Joba up. I understand that it is hard for mainstream media "baseball analysts" to get, but...Joba has started baseball games prior to this year.

I don't claim they did anything wrong, but they did have him switch roles in-season twice in two years.

For what it's worth...Joba's shoulder strength tests done in the clubhouse all turned out very positive.

I don't claim they did anything wrong, but they did have him switch roles in-season twice in two years.

I don't know of any evidence that going from a starter to a reliever (and one who wasn't even really allowed to pitch on back to back days) leads to injuries. I don't know of any evidence that going from a reliever to a starter, unless you're not trained in the role and Joba was, leads to injuries. Do you have any evidence for what you are implying?

Still only two games back...but even missing Joba for just a couple of starts, all of a sudden the playoffs look like a real long shot.

Well, at least I'm off the hook for those drinks.

For what it's worth...Joba's shoulder strength tests done in the clubhouse all turned out very positive.

That's a good sign. I think those tests are very effective at detecting serious injury. That doesn't mean they won't/shouldn't be cautious with him, but there's likely no long term damage if they manage him right.

on the YES broadcast David Cone speculated, after seeing where Joba was gesturing, that it could be something in the bicep muscle rather than the shoulder, which, if true, would be reassuring.

That's a good sign. I think those tests are very effective at detecting serious injury. That doesn't mean they won't/shouldn't be cautious with him, but there's likely no long term damage if they manage him right.

I can't tell if this sarcasm or not, but I'm hoping it isn't.

NJAS...:

Ray has a very selective attitude towards the need for evidence.

Don't worry - it's not, although people seem to think I'm being sarcastic when I'm speaking too, which is odd because I almost never intend to be. I must just say a lot of crazy stuff.

And he's fat, too.

Of course, now Ortiz has some more wrist concerns, which may even out the playoff race.

Unfortunately I have both on my fantasy team.

now Ortiz has some more wrist concerns, which may even out the playoff race.

Maybe the Yankees and Red Sox both miss the post-season. Of course, Buck and McCarver will still find a way to talk non-stop about NY and Boston during all the broadcasts.

Of course, Buck and McCarver will still find a way to talk non-stop about NY and Boston during all the broadcasts.

I can't wait for three hour discourses on how it's such a shame that two great teams like the Yankees and Red Sox missed the playoffs this year, and how much we all miss them. Ah, who am I kidding. It's the playoffs. They'll be four hour discourses.

I don't claim they did anything wrong, but they did have him switch roles in-season twice in two years.

I don't know of any evidence that going from a starter to a reliever (and one who wasn't even really allowed to pitch on back to back days) leads to injuries. I don't know of any evidence that going from a reliever to a starter, unless you're not trained in the role and Joba was, leads to injuries. Do you have any evidence for what you are implying?

No. That's why I didn't claim anything.

Is there some law against wondering about something?

NJAS...:

Ray has a very selective attitude towards the need for evidence.

JC: You're getting close to becoming the first person I've ever put on ignore in 15 years.

Is there some law against wondering about something?

Wondering on the winternebs is the same as stating a fact in real life. Duh.

Physical-injury schadenfreude is the most contemptuous (and contemptible) schadenfreude.

Looking at the Joba and Ortiz threads, it looks like Red Sox haters are leading Yankees haters in restraint and decency. Which is not what I would have bet on given the standings.

Looking at the Joba and Ortiz threads, it looks like Red Sox haters are leading Yankees haters in restraint and decency. Which is not what I would have bet on given the standings.

Well, the Ortiz thread has degenerated into masturbation jokes, thereby derailing the Red Sox haters. With TVErik's brilliant post, the Red Sox haters never had a chance.

I can't wait for three hour discourses on how it's such a shame that two great teams like the Yankees and Red Sox missed the playoffs this year, and how much we all miss them. Ah, who am I kidding. It's the playoffs. They'll be four hour discourses.

That Derek Jeter, he with the calm eyes, is such a winner. He willed his team to that second place finish.
And there the pitch by Kazmir, ball one.

Jeter had such grace in closing down the old Yankee Stadium.

Home run, Rays down 1-0

Now with the new Yankee stadium, we can only hope to recapture the magic moments with the Red Sox, strikeout there.

And so forth.

JC: You're getting close to becoming the first person I've ever put on ignore in 15 years.

Primer has apparently been around a lot longer than I had ever thought. Or Ray is posting from the future. What happened to Joba?

For what it's worth...Joba's shoulder strength tests done in the clubhouse all turned out very positive.

Nice to see one piece of relevant news amidst all the speculation and blamethrowing. Thanks, "NJASDJDH, now girlfriend free!"

JC: You're getting close to becoming the first person I've ever put on ignore in 15 years.

Ray, your profile only shows you as having been a member since 13 March 2007. Does this mean the rest of us are safe from being ignored until 2022? Let me know, because I've got a couple of extremely profane jokes I'd like to make at your expense.

That being said, if we're not ignoring each other yet, I'm not sure what it would take to change that.

Well, at least I'm off the hook for those drinks.

I'm not buying anything until they're mathematically eliminated.

I'm not buying anything until they're mathematically eliminated.

So we're getting together on Labor Day?

(I kid, I kid.)

I don't know how many Loungers or lurkers are around, but that Ray/NJ/JC exchange is what I'm talking about when I say that over the last 4 years, the steroids threads have poisoned the environment here compared to what it was before they started. Right there you've got cutting snarkiness, ad hominems, grudges from previous threads, and a demand for "evidence" for every single statement made or question asked. It used to be that that was rare, and now it's in a thread that has no reason to turn heated.

</OT>

Shut down Joba. Enclose him in glass. Who cares about trying to make the playoffs if it means risking the health of the most important player in the franchise?

However, if the tests today reveal it's already structural damage, well, I guess I picked a bad week to stop sniffing glue.

I don't know how many Loungers or lurkers are around, but that Ray/NJ/JC exchange is what I'm talking about when I say that over the last 4 years, the steroids threads have poisoned the environment here compared to what it was before they started. Right there you've got cutting snarkiness, ad hominems, grudges from previous threads, and a demand for "evidence" for every single statement made or question asked. It used to be that that was rare, and now it's in a thread that has no reason to turn heated.

</OT>

I don't really enter steroids threads so I have no clue what you're talking about.

Right there you've got cutting snarkiness, ad hominems, grudges from previous threads, and a demand for "evidence" for every single statement made or question asked. It used to be that that was rare, and now it's in a thread that has no reason to turn heated.

I've been around here since around 2000, and I can't say that I've noticed much of a difference, other than the disappearance of Piazza, the Bearded Wizard, Randal, and so on. People here have always been snark-filled, and grudges have always existed. The only minor change is that the steroid threads have generally concentrated the bile into separate areas, rather than allow it to be sprinkled across all threads in semi-even measure.

To be honest, I actually like the requests for evidence. After all, if someone makes a seemingly indefensible claim, or implies one, shouldn't they be questioned on it?

sometimes, people get hurt. Its sad when it is your favorite young player, but sometimes it happens. I wish the best for young Joba. I hope they are careful with him and do not rush him. And I hope he comes back to be the young exciting pitcher we all can't take our eyes off.

I hope, in his absence, young Kennedy comes up and pitches well. He and his young wife look like a very happy couple, and I believe they will enjoy NYC. To be young, in love and in NY, it doesn't get much better than that.

And I hope Mr. Carl Pavano, who has pitched well in his rehab assignments, gets a chance to pitch at Yankee Stadium once again. I think he can help the Yankees some, and if he could pitch successfully for a Yankee team that overcame a deficit to make the playoffs, a great weight would be lifted off his shoulders.

I hope all these things. After all, it is the year of hope.

Ray and JC are going to have it out before the next meetup at Camden Yards. Best 7 of 13 nine ball. I'll hold the money.

It's either that or anthrax, and none of us really wants to go there.

Well, maybe this is just snarky, but is SJ on e?

sometimes, people get hurt. Its sad when it is your favorite young player, but sometimes it happens. I wish the best for young Joba. I hope they are careful with him and do not rush him. And I hope he comes back to be the young exciting pitcher we all can't take our eyes off.

I hope, in his absence, young Kennedy comes up and pitches well. He and his young wife look like a very happy couple, and I believe they will enjoy NYC. To be young, in love and in NY, it doesn't get much better than that.

And I hope Mr. Carl Pavano, who has pitched well in his rehab assignments, gets a chance to pitch at Yankee Stadium once again. I think he can help the Yankees some, and if he could pitch successfully for a Yankee team that overcame a deficit to make the playoffs, a great weight would be lifted off his shoulders.

Finally, a fair and balanced take on the Yankee situation.

Well, maybe this is just snarky, but is SJ on e?

I'm betting Temosil.

Yeah, 54 was...weird.

I am just trying to find light in a dark world, my friends.

Pee cha ka wunchy culpa tong me too chonky troi!

For what it's worth...Joba's shoulder strength tests done in the clubhouse all turned out very positive.

Cross-considering from the Ortiz thread: what, exactly, were these "shoulder strength tests"? What, exactly goes on in the "clubhouse"?

Behold!

Seriously though.

Hughes starts thursday for Scranton. Thats 3 weeks away from the show. Kennedy is due to come up any minute. Pavano is pitching in Trenton on Thursday as well, that will be his third rehab start.

Yankees have tons of options. Not good options, but they are options nonetheless.

Primer has apparently been around a lot longer than I had ever thought. Or Ray is posting from the future. What happened to Joba?

You've got to hand it to Jim. That's a fine upgrade to the edit feature in BTF 2022.

Yankees have tons of options. Not good options, but they are options nonetheless.

I'd say they're pretty good options, especially if Hughes has his velocity back. It's just that they were better options when the Yanks didn't have to cover any of Joba's starts too.

JC: You're getting close to becoming the first person I've ever put on ignore in 15 years.

Yay?

Primer has apparently been around a lot longer than I had ever thought. Or Ray is posting from the future.

I'm lumping in usenet, where you could killfile people, though I never did.

JC is upset with me for not agreeing with him that Manny Ramirez flopped onto the ball on purpose during that play against the Angels. For holding this view this JC called me dishonest.

While calling me dishonest he also made some references to the steroids wars (such as he did above), but, ironically, I don't recall debating him on any steroids-related topic. I don't recall getting into any argument with him at all prior to this. I'm not real clear on what his issue is.

One never roots for a person to be injured, unless that person in Curt Schilling or Mel Gibson. But granting that Joba Chamberlain is going to be fine one day, I can say with clean conscience:

Huzzah! Oh happy day!

sobs

I told myself I wasn't going to do this!

cries further tears of joy

I wonder if Joba was a royal, if they would have a problem with celebrating success. My thought is no.

JC is upset with me for not agreeing with him that Manny Ramirez flopped onto the ball on purpose during that play against the Angels. For holding this view this JC called me dishonest.

While calling me dishonest he also made some references to the steroids wars (such as he did above), but, ironically, I don't recall debating him on any steroids-related topic. I don't recall getting into any argument with him at all prior to this. I'm not real clear on what his issue is.

My "issue" is transparent to anyone paying attention to your exchanges. You demand staggeringly different levels of proof based on your biases. So, for instance, w/very little evidence, you have no problem accusing Gammons of lying and thus of professional malfeasance while you play evidentiary games with other people's claims.

One never roots for a person to be injured, unless that person in Curt Schilling or Mel Gibson.

I must have missed Gibson's ZiPS, because I don't remember being too concerned about him coming into this season.

As to the problems people had with me wondering whether Chamberlain's switching of roles was a factor, I see that Will Carroll raises the same issue:

The early word is that his muscle tightened up due to a combination of the blistering heat (I sat in that heat the night before, and yeah, it's a huge factor) and fatigue. It's the latter that's most worrisome given Chamberlain's switch of roles. While he built up his arm strength, no one has any idea how the fatigue will be affected by the shape of his season.

My "issue" is transparent to anyone paying attention to your exchanges. You demand staggeringly different levels of proof based on your biases. So, for instance, w/very little evidence, you have no problem accusing Gammons of lying and thus of professional malfeasance while you play evidentiary games with other people's claims.

JC, it's not really worth re-hashing, but my so-called "demand for evidence" was consistently applied to Gammons's claims: I wanted to see evidence for what Gammons was accusing Ramirez of, rather than just blindly accepting it because Peter Gammons wrote it. I "accused" Gammons of being wrong in the past, because he has been, and I explained that I didn't know why he had been wrong in the past -- whether he was being used by front offices, didn't do his due diligence, or simply made things up -- just that he had been.

As to the Angels' play, I also was unwilling to accept that Ramirez flopped on purpose without being presented with a persuasive case for it. To me, the video is completely open to interpretation, and doesn't settle anything. I did find myself going away from your interpretation of the play when you tried to claim that Ramirez never slipped at all, when he clearly slipped trying to get up, as is demonstrably shown on the video. As I pointed out, whoever wrote the ESPN game recap -- i.e., an unbiased source -- described Ramirez as having "stumbled," which was in line with my interpretation of the play.

Whatever. This entire discussion of Gammons/Ramirez is old news, and isn't very interesting anymore. I just figured that when you sharply descended into a personal attack in the other thread, calling me dishonest, and then continued that here, that it was because I had done something to you -- and I was confused because I couldn't remember doing anything like that.