Egad, I'm actually agreeing with Larry Bowa.

Which can only mean you haven't thought the issue through.

naw, i agree too. it's just too remote an event to have to make them do that. it would be different if he was standing in against a pitcher, or standing closer to the plate. really, i think its overkill.

It's his head.

It's his head.

Sure, and it's a player's body, but just like if some people use steroids everyone else has to to keep up, if Bowa is allowed to not wear a helmet, pretty soon all other third base coaches will be pressured not to use helmets, so that they can better convey signs by wiggling their ears. This PED is no different than any other PED, MLB should protect the coaches from themselves.

Bowa is exactly right about this and I'm glad he's speaking up. It's ridiculous. Coolbaugh was a tragic event, but it was the definition of a freak accident. Pitchers are far more endangered on every pitch than a base coach. This was well-intentioned, but a complete overreaction.

For some reason this vaguely reminds me of boxing going from 15-round to 12-round title fights for no really good reason.Duk Koo-Kim died in the 14th round against Ray Mancini, and that spurred the change. What if he'd died in the 11th or the 10th or the 8th? Virtually all title fight fatalities or life-threatening injuries other than Kim happened before the championship rounds. But they got caught up in the moment and felt they had to do something. So they did.

It's not like he has anything up there to protect, anyway.

It's not like he has anything up there to protect, anyway.

Bingo. But I still agree with his point.

They talk about delay of game, and when the helmet falls off, you’ll have to stop the game.

That's a weak argument.


Baseball is just being prudent in requiring the helmet. If another coach were to be killed with a ball to the head, and baseball had done nothing after the Coolbaugh incident, I would think MLB might face some significant liability. The reaction of Bowa seems too much like a macho response to me.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

OK, it's a freak accident. But the risk of this freak accident can be reduced by making guys wear plastic hats instead of cloth ones. Is wearing a plastic hat instead of a cloth one onerous? Does it interfere with his ability to do his job? Does it infringe horribly on Bowa's rights? Certainly not as badly as requiring him to wear a uniform instead of whatever he wants. Certainly less so than team rules about facial hair, etc.

Sure, at one level it's a silly, paternalistic rule. But it's also just a rule about what type of hat he wears. Actually it's probably the 10th rule about what type of hat he wears and nobody raised a stink about the first 9. But now that it's a rule that maybe, on the slightest chance, might save someone's life without costing Bowa a damn thing, oh well that's when we get on our libertarian high horses.

I dunno, when I went to my first football tryout and the coach said "you know, you should wear a cup", I didn't get enraged that he was keeping my boys from swinging free. Rather I thought "oh, that's a good idea."

And yeah, the umps should wear them too.

Are Bowa's quotes more or less the same as when the NHL required their players to wear helmets?

Coolbaugh was hit in the back/side of the neck as he turned away from the ball. A helmet would have done nothing for him.

That's a weak argument.

Good point. It sure is.

All batters in the game are required to wear helmets. That's thousands of helmet appearances per year. How long do you think "helmet falling off" delays cost each team each year? Sure, there will be a few when a batter is upended by a near-HBP.

The only reason not to wear a helmet is because they are uncomfortable. So the question is whether the increased level of safety the helmet provides is sufficient to offset the lack of comfort having it on your head brings. The increase in safety is not particularly large (who was the last MLB coach to be struck in the head with a batted ball), so it seems reasonable to me to be the sort of decision left up to the individual teams and/or individual coaches. Liability shouldn't be an issue as it would be nothing for the coach in question to sign a waiver. These are adults after all.

As a rule I'm generally against the league trying to bring about an Single Entity type setup like MLS has. This is the sort of thing where I think team autonomy ought to rule.

THEY TALK ABOUT DELAY OF GAME

...in football...

Walt, couldn't agree with you more. The helmet will not interfere with a first or third-base coach doing his job. If it saves even one life, it's worth it--because there's really no cost to it. They delay of game is a bogus argument. If they're worried about time, just enforce the 12-second rule for pitchers and make hitters stay in the box throughout the at-bat.

Pitchers are definitely in more dangerous position than the coaches, but the helmet, I would think, would fall off with regularity--especially for pitchers with violent motions. That's probably why it's not feasible for pitchers to wear them.

In some of the minor leagues this season, they'll also be strictly enforcing the coaches' boxes; specifically, they'll be prohibiting coaches from standing in front of the boxes. That's another good rule.

The way Coolbaugh died is irrelevant to this discussion. However, his death spurred baseball officials to realize that base coaches were in a vulnerable position. A helmet does offer some protection as opposed to a cap, which offers protection against little more than preventing moths from landing in your hair.

So Bowa will only wear a helmet if there are corpses stacked up around third base?

Voros, I think the league could be trying to keep the non-helmet pressure off of the teams and individuals by making a leaguewide mandate.

When I was a kid, my mom made me wear a helmet while riding my bike. And I looked just ridiculous. But then the helmet laws hit NJ, and everyone looked as dumb as me (well, not as dumb, but you know what I mean).

The increase in safety is not particularly large (who was the last MLB coach to be struck in the head with a batted ball), so it seems reasonable to me to be the sort of decision left up to the individual teams and/or individual coaches.

I argue that it isn't the increase in safety necessarily being the only factor, but the appearance of more safety. Don Zimmer gets beaned with a batted ball in the dugout in Yankee Stadium, and all parks immediately put up netting in front of the dugout. No one protested, and only Cappy Jeter thought to give him a WWI Kaiser helmet.

The only reason not to wear a helmet is because they are uncomfortable.

I would think there's a health issue in here, too. My guess is helmets are some amount more weight to bear on the head than a cap. While not a big deal for hitters/base runners in the short time they have to sport them, it might be a big deal if you have to wear the thing for an average of about 1.5 hours per game 162 times per year. That's a lot of additional strain on the neck and back that the body isn't necessarily designed to support. The helmet rule could conceivably create more injuries than it prevents.

/devil's advocate

those of you who are equating bowa's need to protect himself to that of a player are mixing two things that should not be mixed. like i said, he's not standing in against pitching. he's ninety feet away. and if you've ever watched a major league base coach, you know he always is watching the pitch, so it is rare indeed that he'd be in danger of being hit. his exposure to danger is minimal compared to a player.
i've never thought the helmets are a bad idea for the players, at bat or on base. but come on.

Why not develop a tight-fitting soft skullcap for pitchers, which wouldn't be disturbed by a violent throwing motion but affords some measure of protection against batted balls? I'm sure we'd get some winging from them, but once you integrate it throughout the minors, I think the complaints would cease.

The only downside I can think of is in not letting us see the pitcher's lovely locks.

MLB could let pitchers wear caps with protective liners, ala Norm Cash and Bob Montgomery. That might work.

One other point: Ray Chapman is the only player in ML history to have died as the result of a thrown pitch. Does anyone really think we should return to the days of caps-only at the plate because of the mathematical improbability of someone dying from a pitched ball?

Why should a base coach wear a helmet and not the infielder standing 15 feet away from him? Olerud proved that it is feasible for fielders to wear helmets.

The way Coolbaugh died is irrelevant to this discussion.

I think it's extremely relevant. The helmets are at least, to some extent, an imposition on those forced to wear them. The extent to which they are likely to prevent serious injury is certainly relevant and the fact that the data point spurring this move was one in which the helmet wouldn't have helped at all certainly matters.

This ought to be a team by team issue because how one views the above tradeoff can legitimately differ from individual to individual, and that these decisions don't really fundamentally change the way the game is played (which would obviously make it a league concern).

We could all walk around all day wearing suits of armor and supplying our own clean oxygen from tanks. At some point the level of additional safety those sorts of measures would provide are balanced against the level of inconvenience using them would be. In the end we eventually weight these decisions and proceed. This is the sort of decision that should be up to the coaches and their employers. MLB is neither.

What the hell is wrong with you people?

OK, it's a freak accident. But the risk of this freak accident can be reduced by making guys wear plastic hats instead of cloth ones.

One could wear a crash helmet while driving to work and improve his or her chances of surviving a car accident. How many of us wouldn't howl in protest if such legislation was put forth? We could also put helmets on all the players in the field and every fan in the first 20 rows. You can ALWAYS improve safety, but is there a real need for it in this case? How many other base coaches have been killed in the past 100 years? Yes, I know, even one is too many. But it's riskier getting in and out of the bathtub or going down a flight of stairs.

The helmets look like the kind of thing you might eat ice cream out of, and the areas they "protect" aren't really vulnerable unless you're John Olerud. No life will ever be saved by this PR scam.

Does anyone really think we should return to the days of caps-only at the plate because of the mathematical improbability of someone dying from a pitched ball?

Not the argument. The argument is whether that's a decision best left up to the league, or the player and his employer. I would definitely argue the latter.

Whether the home team is allowed to have a guy with a zoom lens in the center field scoreboard stealing signs is a matter for the league. The distance of the fences from home plate is a matter for the league. The home team excessively watering the field before each game is a matter for the league. Gambling, thrown games, doctored baseballs and even PEDs are all matters for the league. But something that doesn't effect the outcome of the game or the integrity of the contests like this stuff? The teams should be able to handle it.

But it's riskier getting in and out of the bathtub or going down a flight of stairs.

Forget the helmets. We've got to keep these base coaches from going home.

Give the coaches a glove. Problem solved.

Seriously, are we going to now make infielders fielders wear helmets? How many times have pitchers been hit in the head? It usually happens at least 1-2 times a year. Are we going to make fans wear helmets? I remember a fan dieing sometime from being hit in the head. Should players wear helmets in the dugout? Players have been hit while staying in there.

This type of action will just get out of control. Don't let some strange 1 time incident take precedent over millions of other times when nothing as happened. It's just as likely, if not more to die in a car crash. Should we make drivers wear helmets?

To Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE® Ball
I didn't take your ideas, we just happened to think of it at the same time

Yeah, Larry Bowa's a blowhard but it should be his choice. One freak casualty in how many millions of batted balls? What if LaSorda had taken that bat in the face at the all-star game? (I think his butt is still planted there) Would we be asking coaches to wear catcher masks? Hell, he barely cleared that piece of tumbling lumber. What if it had been a McGwire screamer off his chest? His heart would've exploded like from the five-finger death thingy and you'd have rigatoni in the rafters. I remember watching the Cards at Busch one Sunday and the 3b coach would back out of the box so far from the field when Mac was up that he was almost working the TV camera. What the hell is his job when guys like that are up anyway? Ummm, bunt? Hit and run? Besides, getting drilled by a juiced up rope from Mac would take off the coach's bean (sorry coach, let me just smash that back on to your spine. There, how's the hearing, can you see okay? Wait, where's your other eye?)whatever he was wearing - helmet, body armor, M1 tank. For minor leagues, college, HS etc, sure, make 'em wear 'em, sets a good example for the kids, reduces liability where things like that could really hurt a program financially. But for highly paid professionals who know the risks involved it seems a bit knee-jerk, as if there weren't enough chiefs in the T.P.. (Congress, Mitchell, The FBI, the Press, The Mrs. Rocket's Butt, Belichek's camera's - oh, wait...)

They should get chin straps if they are concerned with the helmet flying off.

How about a compromise....move the coaches boxes back behind the bases...make them stay back there from when the pitcher is on the rubber until the ball is hit. They'll be another 20 or 30 feet away from the batter...they'll probably be safer than they would be closer but with a helmet. If they don't like that and want to stand where they normally stand, let them wear a helmet.

These arguments sound a lot like people who don't want to wear seatbelts because they wrinkle their clothes or they worry about not being able to escape from a car that fell into a lake.

Are the helmets perfect protection? No. Do they offer some protection? I say yes. Are coaches somehow harmed by having to wear helmets? I don't think so.

I've had too many years of listening to Jim Tracy and his rhetorical questions.

I don't think that any arguments that involve players here are the same thing. The league mandating a uniform change like that would be a collective bargaining issue, right?

Let's not stop there, Bob T.
How can we allow fans to sit in the bleachers or in foul ground not behind the backstop without helmets on? Come on people. Half of 'em are nearly blind drunk or on cell phones not paying a lick of attention to the game. We've got to step in and protect them! Are we just supposed to let them be responsible for themselves?! We'll pass out 30,000 helmets at the gate.

Man, there are so many public health things that would be so helpful and so easy to do if we just mandated or even gave people incentives to do them...but so often, the things that actually get made into laws or rules are things like this which stand a great chance of helping absolutely nobody, and come from panic or irrational responses to out-of-nowhere occurrences.

Put the whole stadium in helmets!

But really, I am on with Bowa about this.

For some reason this vaguely reminds me of boxing going from 15-round to 12-round title fights for no really good reason.Duk Koo-Kim died in the 14th round against Ray Mancini, and that spurred the change. What if he'd died in the 11th or the 10th or the 8th? Virtually all title fight fatalities or life-threatening injuries other than Kim happened before the championship rounds. But they got caught up in the moment and felt they had to do something. So they did.

Actually, they commissioned a study which found that the majority of serious injuries were happening after the 12th round, and that's why they changed it.

I would think there's a health issue in here, too. My guess is helmets are some amount more weight to bear on the head than a cap. While not a big deal for hitters/base runners in the short time they have to sport them, it might be a big deal if you have to wear the thing for an average of about 1.5 hours per game 162 times per year. That's a lot of additional strain on the neck and back that the body isn't necessarily designed to support. The helmet rule could conceivably create more injuries than it prevents.

/devil's advocate

OK, it says devil's advocate but . . . man, you got to be kidding me. That's one of the worst arguments I have ever read on this site. "That's a lot of additional strain on the neck and back that the body isn't necessarily designed to support." -- What do you think they make these helmets out of anyway - steel reinforced with concrete sprinking with the remnants of collapsed stars? It's hard plastic. If wearing it on a head for 2 hours a day 162 days a year is more strain the the human body is designed to support then heaven help anyone 2 pounds overweight. I mean, those poor bastards have to walk around with that 24/7. And if wearing a helmet for less than 400 hours a year is enough to cause notable neck problems, then someone explain to me why every single construction worker on the planet isn't quadrapolegic [sic] by now. Those guys wear 'em for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. And don't even get me started about coal miners -- not only the helmet, but also - GASP - a light on top of it. Hurts my back just thinking about it, I tell ya.

Oh brother.

That's a lot of additional strain on the neck and back that the body isn't necessarily designed to support. The helmet rule could conceivably create more injuries than it prevents.

Not to pile on, but by your argument, lifting weights also creates a lot of strain on the back that the body isn't necessarily designed to support.

Actually, no. The body can adapt. Stress is not bad.

Why do they make third base coaches wear uniforms anyway? I'd like to see Bowa in a shorts, a tee shirt, and smoking a cigarette while coaching. What right does the major leagues have to tell him he can't?

It's communism damn it. I'm sick of all these commies ruining the game.

"If it saves even one life, it's worth it"

Please give me at least 72 hours notice to evacuate if this ever becomes law of the land......

what in the heck is wrong with nets? seriously how would a net hurt the situation?

Are Bowa's quotes more or less the same as when the NHL required their players to wear helmets?

Yes.

If you think this is bad, just wait until a pitcher gets killed by a line drive. Because sooner or later, it's going to happen.

For a place that prides itself on being for the "thinking man", there are a lot of slippery slope arguments.

if there are corpses stacked up around third base?

Is Jack Cust trying to score again?

Let's not stop there, Bob T.

How can we allow fans to sit in the bleachers or in foul ground not behind the backstop without helmets on? Come on people. Half of 'em are nearly blind drunk or on cell phones not paying a lick of attention to the game. We've got to step in and protect them! Are we just supposed to let them be responsible for themselves?! We'll pass out 30,000 helmets at the gate..

Speaking of fans, I saw on the Drudge Report just the other day that at least 20,000 known "Husseins" have managed to slip through the turnstiles just since 9/11. And according to FOX, more than 150 of them have been in Kansas City. Kansas City!!!

This is even more frightening than the thought of Larry Bowa being decapitated while catching some cleavage in the box seats, and yet we sit here and do absolutely nothing about it. Can't we at least bring in a few hundred airport security people to check drivers' licenses and do full body searches? Or would you rather see both Larry Bowa and your children blown up, without even a helmet to protect them?

Voros, the measure was put in place not because a helmet would necessarily have saved Coolbaugh's life, but because Coolbaugh's death reminded people that third base coaches face a serious risk of injury on the field. People just didn't think about it before.

A lot of the complaints in this thread are really lame. I had to wear unattractive and uncomfortable hats in my first three summer jobs, and yet I somehow managed to survive anyway. If your boss tells you to wear the stupid hat, you wear the stupid hat, or you go out and find a new job. This isn't rocket science.

The argument about the hat falling off all the time and holding things up is even dumber. Did you somehow manage to miss John Olerud's entire career, Larry? If you're that concerned about it, though, I bet MLB would be fine with you adding a chin strap to your helmet.

I haven't read the whole thread but why not give the base coaches gloves? They only use them if the ball is coming righ at them. Otherwise it's interference esp on close foul/fair plays

"I haven't read the whole thread but why not give the base coaches gloves? They only use them if the ball is coming righ at them."

Some third base coaches aren't athletic enough to defend themselves in a reasonable fashion. Think Tommy Lasorda in the All Star Game.

I haven't read the whole thread but why not give the base coaches gloves?

Because one of the main duties of third/first base coaches is to pass on signals to the hitter & base runners. The glove would get in their way for that.

Hell, why not give the base coaches catcher's gear? It would save a lot of time from the ball boys/girls going and getting foul balls down the lines if coaches would just stop those foul balls....

Just not a big fan of legislating that someone MUST protect himself from himself. Not all players wear cups. If someone were to get hit square in the nuts by a ball and cause complications... what's next? Do umpires walk around during the national anthem performing cup checks?

Seat belts, helmets, etc---Should be an individual's option if he would like to protect him/herself further.

Well thoise two reason are ridiculus. One, even if Tommy had a helmet, it wouldn't have protected him and two, the coaches have two hands for signals, the glove could be incorporated into the signal scheme.

I have never seen a coach get hit with a line drive.

The seatbelt analogy makes little sense to me. By mandating seatbelt use, you are addressing a situation that is quite common (auto accidents) and for which the benefits are manifest (thousands of lives saved by seatbelts). I know everyone likes bright line rules, but it seems to me that whenever you're going to do mandates like these, there needs to be some kind of showing that (a) it's addressing a material problem; and (b) will provide material benefits.

And before anyone says anything, yes, I know the difference between government action and private action. Just because baseball doesn't HAVE to make those kinds of showings doesn't mean such showings are a bad idea.

OK, it says devil's advocate but . . . man, you got to be kidding me. That's one of the worst arguments I have ever read on this site. "That's a lot of additional strain on the neck and back that the body isn't necessarily designed to support." -- What do you think they make these helmets out of anyway - steel reinforced with concrete sprinking with the remnants of collapsed stars? It's hard plastic. If wearing it on a head for 2 hours a day 162 days a year is more strain the the human body is designed to support then heaven help anyone 2 pounds overweight. I mean, those poor bastards have to walk around with that 24/7. And if wearing a helmet for less than 400 hours a year is enough to cause notable neck problems, then someone explain to me why every single construction worker on the planet isn't quadrapolegic [sic] by now. Those guys wear 'em for 8 hours a day 5 days a week, 50 weeks a year. And don't even get me started about coal miners -- not only the helmet, but also - GASP - a light on top of it. Hurts my back just thinking about it, I tell ya.

Oh brother.

When I was in the Air Force, I did a tour in North Dakota. Yes, it does get as cold up there as people say. -20 was routine in Dec/Jan. Our leather flight boots were totally inadequate to the job, even the "winter" ones with about an 1/8 inch of insulation. Our feet were numb after a 1 hour sortie. We would get the boots a couple of sizes too big so we could wear a couple of pairs of wool socks under. Moreover, in that temp, the soles would get rock hard with no give, and the walk to/from the flightline in snow/ice was extremely treacherous.

Then, they came out with an alternate version, made of goretex, much improved insulation, and a sole that would remain supple in the cold. They were like heaven.

Then, some pencilneck at HQ decided that the goretex boots would not provide enough ankle support in the event of an ejection and subsequent PLF (Parachute Landing Fall). Due to the increased risk of a sprain or broken ankle*, the books were deemed unfit for ejection seat aircraft. We howled and protested to no avail. The asinine directive stood.

We wore them anyway.

* An almost impossibly small increase. A landing that was hard enough to cause ankle damage in the goretex boots, but not so hard as to case the same damage in leather boots. Not to mention the chances of an ejection were extremely remote as well. In my 7 years flying the T-38, there were, I think, two ejections force wide, out of millions of sorties.

"I have never seen a coach get hit with a line drive."

I have. Luckily it was in little league, so he wasn't too badly hurt, but he still started cursing a blue streak. Assistant coach's son, pulled one down the line, drilled him right in the kneecap.

I wear a seatbelt because I think it gives me a better chance at survival if I get in an accident. Mandating that I HAVE to protect myself further is what I object to.

I should have the option of wearing a bullet proof vest, football pads and a helmet every time I go out in public. If I thought that I needed to, for safety, it should be up to me.

I just wonder when it'll happen when the average major league fastball goes from 90 to 80 because pitchers will be required to wear football gear.

I had to wear unattractive and uncomfortable hats in my first three summer jobs

"you want fries with that?"

I just wonder when it'll happen when the average major league fastball goes from 90 to 80 because pitchers will be required to wear football gear.

That will naturally be balanced by batters in Michelin Man type padding with bat speeds in the 30's.

Chad, I understand your arguement but as an ER doctor, I see loads of people injured because they were not wearing their seatbelts. And guess what, they end up going on governement assistance because no commercial insurance can afford all of the care for a brain injured person.

Seatbelt mandates were made to save governement and society millions of bucks in custodial medical care.

Let them have gloves!

They don't need gloves or helmets. They only need to pay attention to the game.

Just not a big fan of legislating that someone MUST protect himself from himself. Not all players wear cups. If someone were to get hit square in the nuts by a ball and cause complications... what's next? Do umpires walk around during the national anthem performing cup checks?

Chad, I noticed that you didn't use batters being required to wear helmets as an example. This could only be because generally there is no controversy about that; everyone thinks it's a good idea.

They aren't trying to protect Bowa from himself. No one thinks that the Lar is going to bean himself in the head with a baseball. They're trying to protect him from the dangerous environment in which his job requires him to work.

Look, they're there to do a job. Prove to me that wearing a helmet impedes this job in some way and I'll back off. Catcher's gear on the baselines certainly would.

Does anyone know what the situation is in college baseball, where non-wood bats are used? Do coaches have to wear helmets? Are there more such injuries?

Erik, one guy gets hit in the neck while he was distracted and now all coaches have to wear helmets?

As I said above, if any coach can't get his head out of the way of any batted ball he shouldn't be on the field.

How many coaches have you seen get hit in the head with a batted ball? I'll bet the answer is "zero". This measure is unnecessary.

Further, I'll bet more people (coaches and players) get hit with batted balls in spring training or during BP than during a game. During the game, you're supposed to be paying attention to every pitch when you're on the field.

I always get a laugh out of the 'if it saves just one life' argument. Making liquor illegal will save thousands of lives, making cigarettes illegal would too, as would reducing the speed limit to no more than 30 mph or even down to 10 mph, or if you really want to be safe just make personal vehicles (such as cars, pickups, SUV's, etc) illegal.

See the point? People take risks every single day in many ways. The odds of a helmet saving a base coach from serious injury or death are so low that they see no reason for them. As others have said, making the caps and uniforms more able to deflect a baseball would do far more for safety. These adaptations should be done for pitchers first before base coaches as pitchers get hit by balls far more often than base coaches. Umpires would be second to get the safety gear (they often will be watching the pitcher or baserunners instead of the pitch) followed by coaches. Screens put up not just behind home plate but along the baselines to at least past first and third base would also be far more likely to save lives than a helmet for coaches.

This is far from a safety consideration, it is just a quick reaction to a terrible accident.

If your boss tells you to wear the stupid hat, you wear the stupid hat

And as I've repeated a couple times now, Bud Selig and MLB ain't these guys bosses, the teams are.

If the team says Bowa's gotta wear a helmet, then Bowa's gotta wear a helmet or else find another team. All of that is fine by me. When it's the league, I object. The league's domain should be limited to the specific things that have effects on the contests.

Having a glove wouldn't have done anything for Coolbaugh, since as others have noted, he was not paying attention to the game when he got hit.

The biggest danger comes from on-field personnel not knowing where the ball is at any time. Stressing that coaches need to watch the game would save a lot more lives than forcing coaches to wear helmets (although in both cases it's probably zero).

This thread is funny when compared with one about hitters wearing an elbow pad.

Chad, I noticed that you didn't use batters being required to wear helmets as an example. This could only be because generally there is no controversy about that; everyone thinks it's a good idea.

Not me. There are two reasons:

1) Without being forced to, a bunch of batters now wear protection all over their body while at the plate: elbows, wrists, shins. At this point even if you didn't force them to wear helmets, I'd say most would anyway.

2) There's a not insignificant chance that the helmets might prove more dangerous than not wearing them. If pitchers have reacted to the helmets by being more willing to throw up and in now (thinking it was now "safe" to do so), that would erase most if not all of their utility.

This is the sort of thing that can be worked out by the player and his employer. If the players agree that it should be a league wide mandate, they can collectively bargain it if they so choose.

I declare victory here.

I don't think you can make a reasonable comparison between batter's helmets and coaches helmets. Everyone has seen a batter get hit in the head, like Sammy Sosa, or Ron Cey facing Rich Gossage in the World Series. In the latter case, I think Cey was briefly knocked unconscious even with the helmet; he probably wouldn't have survived without one.

But has anyone ever seen a base coach get hit in the head, or anywhere else on his person? Probably not, because as long as they're watching the game, they have plenty of time to duck a line drive. Aside from Coolbaugh, the only coaching injury I can think of (and no one else has mentioned any other) is Tommy Lasorda falling on his tuchus.

Boots, do you have me on ignore?

No, I just decided I needed to say that before I finished reading the thread. There's strength in numbers, you know?

Me and you, Boots. BTF World Tag Team Champeens.

"The league's domain should be limited to the specific things that have effects on the contests."

If the Dodgers were playing a non-league game, like an exhibition against UCLA or whatever, the league wouldn't have a legitimate role in the process. Since the rule is applied to games scheduled by the league and played under its auspices, it's perfectly reasonable for the league to regulate whatever the hell they want in the way of game conditions. If the Dodgers don't like it, they can quit and go out barnstorming, or join the PCL, or whatever.

"But has anyone ever seen a base coach get hit in the head, or anywhere else on his person?...Aside from Coolbaugh, the only coaching injury I can think of (and no one else has mentioned any other)"

Post #56? Your reading comprehension is MADE OF FAIL.

But #56 refers to Little League. 60 feet away as opposed to 90 feet away. Amateur coaches as opposed to professionals. Come back when you can show where a pro coach gets beaned while coaching the bases.

Yeah, I was referring to professional coaches. I've seen a kid crap his pants in little league, but that doesn't mean major leaguers should start wearing diapers.

Also, apparently not all coaches agree with the experts here who think that they have plenty of time to react to balls:

[Glenallen Hill] said there's been countless times that he's been coaching first and hears the smack of the bat on the ball and never sees it. "The first baseman will ask, did you see that ball? I didn't," Hill said.

"It's pretty dangerous," Hill said. "And it's not a good feeling."

So, Hill's wearing a helmet, something New York Yankees manager Joe Torre said every base coach in baseball should be doing now.

"I don't think there's any question. A lot of times coaches scare you, because some of them won't even watch the hitter, because they're trying to help the runner. So I don't think that's a bad idea at all," Torre said. "In fact, I think it's a pretty good idea for security people who have to watch the stands instead of the field." -Associated Press

I wonder how Joe feels about Bowa making such an issue of this...

Honestly, there's much more of a chance of a coach getting whacked by a batted ball during practice than during a game. If ever there was a time to wear a helmet, that would be it.

"Come back when you can show where a pro coach gets beaned while coaching the bases."

No matter how many precautions they take, coaches get used to the idea of being hit by the ball several times a season. They never forget the ones that hurt the most.

“I got hit right here during spring training,” [Glenn] Hubbard said. “Marcus Giles, a right-handed hitter, hit one of those line drives. It caught me right in the thigh.”

Jose Cruz, who works first base for the Houston Astros, said he’s amazed Coolbaugh was the first to die in the coaching box.

“It’s too bad they waited until someone was killed,” Cruz said. “A lot of the guys have come close to getting killed.” -Associated Press

Gee, how about that?

Gee, I don't agree with Jose Cruz. I don't agree with Glenallen Hill.

It's easier to move your head out of the way of a line drive than it is to mover your torso out of the way of same. All these anecdotes of coaches getting hit in the thigh or elbow have little to do with coaches getting hit in the head.

3rd basemen playing in don't get hit in the head with line drives. And, like Sean Casey said in the AP link, baserunners leading off of third are in the most danger, and when has there been an instance of a baserunner being hurt by a batted ball?

Hey, here's another one!

Nearly three years ago, Glenn Hoffman, then a coach with the Dodgers, was standing just off the infield grass near third base at Kauffman Stadium in Kansas City when he was smoked in the head by a line drive during batting practice.

"I was reading balls off the bat, and it caught me off-guard a little bit," Hoffman, now the Padres' third-base coach, said. "The cage was pushed back too far behind the plate, and I didn't expect the ball to get around the cage."

Hoffman, an older brother of San Diego closer Trevor Hoffman, sustained a concussion and missed three weeks. When he returned, for a while he wore a full batting helmet in the coach's box and then went to a protective sleeve, which he has worn ever since. -MLB.com

In lieu of a helmet, I think Larry Bowa should be forced to coach third base from inside a protective bubble. The only question is whether to make it airtight.

Yes, Vlad, during BP. With a cage to alter the perception of ball coming off the bat.

I don't think anyone is saying Glenallen Hill or Glenn Hoffman can't wear a helmet if they want to. I also agree with Deadball in post 80: This is much more of a danger in batting practice than in a real game, simply because people pay much less attention to the hitter in batting practice.

This fad is over by September.

"3rd basemen playing in don't get hit in the head with line drives."

3rd basemen playing in are top athletes in the prime of their physical conditioning. 3rd base coaches are mostly guys in their 50s and 60s. Some have beer guts, some have wandering attention spans, and ALL have significantly slower reflexes than the players on the field.

If we were going to make a bet about guys' response time, who would you pick? 62-year-old Larry Bowa, or 24-year-old Andy LaRoche?

Then the answer is let the coaches decide for themselves if they want to wear them. Don't make Dale Sveum wear one because Larry Bowa is too decrepit to react to a batted ball.

Some have beer guts, some have wandering attention spans, and ALL have significantly slower reflexes than the players on the field.

The wandering attention spans are the real problem. Anyone who can't pay attention to every single pitch while they're on the field shouldn't be on the field.

"Yes, Vlad, during BP. With a cage to alter the perception of ball coming off the bat."

He was standing at his coaching position, concentrating on watching the guy hit, and he still couldn't get out of the way in time. Is the exact time that it happened really significant?

I love how you keep moving the goalposts, Joe. First, it's no coaches get hit, ever. Then, it's no professional coaches get hit. Then, it's no professional coaches get hit in the head. Now, it's no professional coaches get hit in the head during official game action.

I'll save you from having to move the post a few more times, and preemptively concede that with the exception of Coolbaugh, no recent professional coach has been killed by a line drive that struck him in the head during game action.

I haven't moved the goal posts. I may have been incomplete in some of my posts, but I have consistently said that during the game, if a coach is paying attention, he shouldn't get hit in the head with a batted ball.

If you think that coaches should be wearing helmets during BP, fine, I'll not agree or disagree. But during the game, it shouldn't be mandated. It should be up to the coach.

This fad is over by September.

Do you mean the fad of coaches b1tching about it, then sure. NASCAR drivers b1tched about their new helmet rules when they were first proposed, now no one says a peep. Same with most hockey players. If MLB genuinely enforces the rule, by the end of the year coaches will get used to it and will no longer give it much of a thought.

He was standing at his coaching position, concentrating on watching the guy hit, and he still couldn't get out of the way in time. Is the exact time that it happened really significant?

Yes, because he was apparently expecting the cage to stop the ball.

"Don't make Dale Sveum wear one because Larry Bowa is too decrepit to react to a batted ball."

Weren't you just complaining because Bowa has to wear a helmet? How does not requiring Sveum to wear a helmet make a "decrepit" guy like Bowa any safer?

Coolbaugh was less than a year away from being an active player, and he still didn't see the ball that killed him. It doesn't take much...

"The wandering attention spans are the real problem. Anyone who can't pay attention to every single pitch while they're on the field shouldn't be on the field."

Nobody who works in any hazardous occupation should ever let their mind wander, but they still do. It's human nature (and good luck writing a rule against THAT).

You can't eliminate all risk from every job, but when the downside here is that Larry Bowa gets teased by his players for two weeks, and then everybody forgets about it, I can't believe that people are seriously arguing against this.

Weren't you just complaining because Bowa has to wear a helmet? How does not requiring Sveum to wear a helmet make a "decrepit" guy like Bowa any safer?

You really didn't understand my point?

"I may have been incomplete in some of my posts, but I have consistently said that during the game, if a coach is paying attention, he shouldn't get hit in the head with a batted ball."

Thus conveniently allowing you to blame any coach who DOES get hit in the head with a batted ball, since he obviously wasn't paying attention, or he wouldn't have been hit. You're all heart.

"Yes, because he was apparently expecting the cage to stop the ball."

So he's magically immune from making similar misjudgments during live games? Good to know...

"You really didn't understand my point?"

You had a point?

I mean, it's not like Dale Sveum (Mr. Wave-'em-in) is well-known for reacting correctly in the moment, either.

So he's magically immune from making similar misjudgments during live games?

There's no cage on the field during live games, nor anything else between the batter's box and the coach's box. So no, I wouldn't expect any coach to make a similar misjudgment during a live game.

"There's no cage on the field during live games, nor anything else between the batter's box and the coach's box."

But there's still a ball, and the potential to misjudge the trajectory thereof. He didn't get hit because the cage jumped away from the ball at the last minute. He got hit because he didn't read the ball properly off the bat, and he thought it'd go to an area that was covered by the cage.

And for the record, there is sometimes something between the batter's box and the coach's box: a baserunner.