"I wonder if Milledge/Perez/Heilman wouldn't trump Giles/Salty/HRam. Still, I'd have to think hard before giving up Ollie..."

Ollie Perez would stand in the way of acquiring Jake Peavy? Hilarious. These rumors are a joke.

Adkins really isnt THAT much worse than Heath Bell

He has terrifying peripherals. Looking through his record, I was straining to see a good season from him. I'm still looking ...


Yes KT did get a LHP for less than what Jamie Walker got but youre forgetting that Walkers actually a good pitcher and Royce Ring is, eh, Royce Ring.
Sure Ring COULD turn into Walker (Walker wasnt much at age 26) but for a team in contention the difference is vast. Thats like signing Rich Aurilia and saying you've done good by getting a SS for cheap rather then spending stuff on Miguel Tejada. you get what you pay for and I'd much rather pay for Walker if i think I'm a contender.

Except that the Orioles aren't contenders, unless lightning strikes New York, Boston, and Toronto simultaneously. Walker is good, but $4M/year tells me that a lefty reliever who can do a decent job must be valued greatly by executives. If you'd rather pay 4M a year for a Walker than league minimum for a Ring, well good luck filling the other holes in your team.

And I have no idea what Walker and Tejada have in common other than that they're both Orioles, and that someday Walker will be telling his grandkids that he once played with Miguel Tejada.

"I don't think there's any truth to them, Towers said yesterday that Peavy will not be dealt as long as he's the GM and he also said that they will not deal Linebrink this season either...although I think that if they're gonna deal Linebrink they should do it this year at a high."

Damnit...the rumors started by someone saying Jerry Crasnick threw it out there on ESPN radio, now Crasnick says he wasn't on any radio today.

Shucks..not that I expected the deal would happen, it was just a nice hope to get up

Look, if they want a catching prospect, we have Flores... Hard to believe Milledge/Heilman/Flores doesn't trump it, though it doesn't give SD the starting 2B...

They're probably about equivalent packages overall, and the Atlanta package fits San Deigo better. Milledge and Salty are approximately equal prospects. Giles has a good bit more value than Heilman. And Flores has more value than Horatio Ramirez(who is just awful).

He has terrifying peripherals. Looking through his record, I was straining to see a good season from him. I'm still looking ...

This was Adkins' signature performance with the Sox. It was a such a tremendous game until he came in. Kinda like Monet finishing a painting by taking a dump on it.

"He has terrifying peripherals. Looking through his record, I was straining to see a good season from him. I'm still looking ..."

I would agree that I'd take Bell going forward but Adkins is the same age with slightly more career IP and a 13 point better ERA+.

Adkins has 2 seasons better than anything Bell's ever done in the bigs outside of those 27 IPs in 03

Bell isn't that much better, we're talkingabout a 29 yo w a near5 career ERA

"Except that the Orioles aren't contenders, unless lightning strikes New York, Boston, and Toronto simultaneously."

Didn't say they were. The Padres, OTOH, ARE...thats the perspective I was looking at. If i was in the Os place I'd rather have Ring as hes young, cheap and has the upside of a league average LOOGY

"If you'd rather pay 4M a year for a Walker than league minimum for a Ring, well good luck filling the other holes in your team."

Its this kind of payroll conservation that kills a team...you've got to spend your money on something and relying on Royce Ring is a risky propostion that will probably lead you to blowing $ and prospects on July 31 to pick up, say, Jamie Walker.

3-4 mil really isn't THAT much

"And I have no idea what Walker and Tejada have in common other than that they're both Orioles, and that someday Walker will be telling his grandkids that he once played with Miguel Tejada."

The Tejada/Aurillia comment was, like yours, factually accurate (they are both SSes, Ring and Walker are both LHPs) but one that totally misses the point

"They're probably about equivalent packages overall, and the Atlanta package fits San Deigo better. "

I just don't see it. Horacio Ramirez has had a season and a third of below average ERA +, godawful periphs starters. He's a year younger than Heilman- Heilman has a massive edge in periphs, enough to make up for the starter/reliever issue. There's nothing to indicate that Ramirez will be even as "good" as he was in 05-06.

Giles is an old 29 (injuries), poor defensive player and hit for a .728 OPS last year. Middle infielders don't usually age gracefully. Lastings Milledge posted terrific numbers at age 21 at AAA. He has fantastic range, and so does Petco Park.

Salty is probably a better catching prospect than Flores- at least further along. But the huge gap between the other two means the Pads would be accepting the far less-desirable proposal.

And go ahead, accuse me of looking at Heilman through blue-and-orange colored glasses. There's no way Horacio Ramirez is as good as Aaron Heilman, and it's not particularly close.

Its this kind of payroll conservation that kills a team...you've got to spend your money on something and relying on Royce Ring is a risky propostion that will probably lead you to blowing $ and prospects on July 31 to pick up, say, Jamie Walker.

3-4 mil really isn't THAT much

But 11.5 million and a 3 year commitment is. There's that old proverb - the difference between good organizations and bad ones are that good organization are aware that there is always solid freely available talent, whereas poor ones are terrified of trying options other than established veterans. Ring could lead to a problem, but so could Walker to a smaller degree. The difference is that Ring won't hurt you anywhere as much if he's ineffective, whereas Walker will sink your resources.

The Tejada/Aurillia comment was, like yours, factually accurate (they are both SSes, Ring and Walker are both LHPs) but one that totally misses the point

I think I grasped your point. I was commenting that any comparisons that parallel Walker to Tejada requires some serious weed to make rational.

stubby c

you read the chron lately? check out brain mctaggart's latest

you check ALL the talk bout how they want huff. and what they say bout ensberg

ok, i was kidding about 20 mill. but i am not kidding about 5 years and 15 mill a year. and i was also not kidding about the fact that luke scott can NOT play right and that lee is a terrible left fielder who will be even worse in the box

as for pitchers
just forget andy and roger

so this means
roy
hirsh
albers
woody williams
???

they want nieve to relieve
they think sampson ain't worth nothing more than middle relief, for some bizarre reason

i'm hearing too freaking much about trading lidge or qualls

they are saying luke scott is gonna have to fight for a spot on the ML roster

bidge gonna play, burke gonna mostly sit
taveras and his .320 OBP ain't goin nowheres
you gonna have lance
you gonna have ausmus
i don't think they gonna trade everett - SOMEone gotta catch that baseball
you gonna have that fat tub of goo carlos lee in left

we got exactly NO ONE in AAA worth a bucket of warm spit - joe mcewing was the MVP, remember?

jr house is gone - not that he hit in his 4 games in the majors, a real good sample, gotta say.

we got hunter pence at AA and we got, what quintero, giminez as backup catchers unless we get stuck with munson again

and you don't think this ballclub gonna look like the pirates next year?

there is like NO excuse for mclane cutting payroll by 10 mill (before adding roger money, which really don't count) and it's gonna show. and you don't think so like WHY???

Lastings Milledge: Might Get Dealt
RotoWire.com Staff - RotoWire.com
Thursday, November 16, 2006

Update: The Mets' acquisition of Ben Johnson could pave the way for Milledge to be dealt, the NY Daily News reports.

Recommendation: Depending on which paper you read or talking-head you listen to, Milledge will either be part of a left-field platoon, start the season in the minors or be traded for either a starting pitcher or stud outfielder. Milledge was the jewel of the Mets' farm system heading into last season, but his value has markedly dropped mainly because of his behavioral issues, which have put his future in question. If Milledge does remain with the team, it may be due to the lack of interest in him rather than the Mets wanting to keep him.


Milledge has the most bling bling on the Mets... but until he learns to sing in street Spanish, he ain't coming out of Omar's doghouse...

Milledge has the most bling bling on the Mets... but until he learns to sing in street Spanish, he ain't coming out of Omar's doghouse...

Haha, "sing in street Spanish"! That's a good one, levski! Keep em coming!

so this means
roy
hirsh
albers
woody williams
???

I'm thinking more along the lines of

Roy
FA/Pettitte
FA/Clemens
Hirsh
Sampson/Nieve/Albers/Buchholz

I think they will sign a pitcher and try to trade for another.

they want nieve to relieve

They have already said that he'll get a shot at the starting rotation.

they are saying luke scott is gonna have to fight for a spot on the ML roster

He'll be on the ML roster and in the Opening Day lineup barring a total collapse in the Spring.

bidge gonna play, burke gonna mostly sit

I think Burke starting over Biggio in the biggest game of the season was pretty telling. Burke will get his playing time.

taveras and his .320 OBP ain't goin nowheres

They will move Taveras as soon as they find someone else who can handle CF defensively. Quotes from both Purpura and Garner last year showed a lot of frustration with Taveras.

you gonna have that fat tub of goo carlos lee in left

I don't think so. I think Lee wants to play in Houston, but I don't think we will be willing to bid with Baltimore.

and you don't think this ballclub gonna look like the pirates next year?

Absolutely not.

there is like NO excuse for mclane cutting payroll by 10 mill (before adding roger money, which really don't count) and it's gonna show. and you don't think so like WHY???

Because if Pettitte and Clemens resign then the team will have excellent pitching again. We allowed fewer runs than any team in the NL last year. If they do not resign we will have a ton of money to spend which will be spent on both pitching and offense.

Bagwell will make 12 mil less than he did last year, Clemens was 13 mil (although he paid for a lot himself), Pettitte goes from 10 mil down to 2 mil deferred payments, and they are no longer paying Jeff Kent now. If they trade Lidge and Ensberg which you seem to assume that will be another 8 mil off the payroll. No one really figures to get a big raise. There is a lot of money to spend.

And go ahead, accuse me of looking at Heilman through blue-and-orange colored glasses. There's no way Horacio Ramirez is as good as Aaron Heilman, and it's not particularly close.

I agree. However, Giles > Milledge and Saltalamacchia > Flores.

The blue-and-orange colored glasses come in when you say things like "Lastings Milledge posted terrific numbers at age 2.1 at AAA" or include a "probably" before saying that Flores isn't as good as Saltalamacchia.

The blue-and-orange colored glasses come in when you say things like "Lastings Milledge posted terrific numbers at age 2.1 at AAA" or include a "probably" before saying that Flores isn't as good as Saltalamacchia.

Pretty idiotic comment. Millege was terrific and Saltydouche was terrible this year. How's his D?

stubby c

cmon, andy and roger are like gone, let's be real here. so let's look at what's left. anyhow, andy sucked the big hairy one for the first 20 starts and roger wasn't even there until almost the ASB - and a lot of the fewest runs allowed was thank you adam everett and mo ensberg - and dan wheeler got his shtt in line after the asb too.

me i personally want sampson in the starting rotation a lot more than anyone else not named roy. unless dave wallace can get buchholz back to the guy with ace stuff i saw at the beginning of last year

not real impressed with hirsh - he look real ADNF to me. albers look like he ain't ready. nieve is ok for a #5 guy - BUT every time purpura talks on ktrh he's talking about nieve in the bullpen, so i am not sure

AND we got no lefty unless wallace can fix wandy which i hope he does because wandy is my favorite astro. why? cuz he david eckstein sized that's why.

-------
all i know about lee is that he is gonna get a 5 year deal from SOMEone and he is too freaking fat to play in the OF for 5 more years.

BOTH purpura and phil said after the season that luke scott would have to prove him self all over again in ST. i missed anything either one said made me think they weren't real too happy AFTER they put him back in center after august. not that i wouldn't rather have carl crawford. and hunter pence is not real too good a glove and charlton jimerson he Ks moren adam dunn.

i think woody williams FINALLY got a chance to pitch at home like he has wanted to do for years and he's gonna be our FA pitcher. but he's really a #4 - and he is fragile too.

so we got an ace, a oldy but woody and 3 rooks. and the rooks ain't exactly no liraino/verlanders

i will be REAL surprised if we don't trade mo ensberg for that LOOGY phil wants so bad - unless we don't sign huff. we got NO decent 3B that i know of above low A - brooks conrad is a utility type guy far as i can tell

so me i still don't see no great team. (unless we keep mo and he has his great odd year on)

and i know we got 17 mill from no andy (he was 17, not 10) and 10 mill from no baggy and another 4 mill no jeffkent right there. i'm not counting roger because he pays for himself anyhow. but payroll was 95 mill BEFORE roger anyhow and now purpura says it's is gonna be less.

it is not that i wanna go after jd drew or matsusaka type guys anyhow, but if we can't get barry lamar the Evil One, i'd rather have dellucci, or at least trade for crawford or vernon wells or SOMEone who can hit AND play defense - after all it IS the NL.

or else i wish they would just come out and say it's gonna be a rebuilding year. we NEED to get some decent prospects anyhow. just look at the lousy guys we got in AAA. yeccccch. something gotta be done about either the lousy scouting, drafting or development of position players anyhow...

agree. However, Giles > Milledge and Saltalamacchia > Flores.

The blue-and-orange colored glasses come in when you say things like "Lastings Milledge posted terrific numbers at age 2.1 at AAA" or include a "probably" before saying that Flores isn't as good as Saltalamacchia.

???

Giles and Milledge would be difficult to compare. It would depend on the needs on the acquiring team - would you prefer the proven veteran 2Bman coming off a down year, but who's been very good in the past or would you prefer the promising young OFer with great potential but also some potential behavioral questions.
For me, Milledge > Giles, but I agree that it would depend on the team.

Saltalamacchia has great potential, but you're risking a lot. Many people don't think he'll stick at C. In that case, his value plummets.
Flores will be a major league C. He was drafted based on his defensive skills. The question is whether he will be able to control the strike zone enough to be a good hitting C.
So in my book, Flores = Saltalmacchia.

Damion Easley??!? WTF Omar? I guess he's better than Woodward, but geez.

Damion Easley??!? WTF Omar? I guess he's better than Woodward, but geez.

Where did you find that, OFF?

I don't know whether I should just be pleased that he got Valentin a platoon partner or upset that he didn't get someone better.

Easley projected to .244/.329/.443 with the DBacks. I'm guessing that he was mostly facing lefties in Arizona (Hudson has trouble with lefties, right?) so this projection already includes a high portion of his AB's coming against lefties. With the ballpark switch, his projection will look worse. Not enough games to show up in Dial's defensive ratings.

I wish Omar had done a bit better here although I suppose it could be worse.

I refuse to believe that's Easley's role.

To give Easley a bit of a break, in addition to facing a good portion of lefties, Easley also probably had a solid portion of his at bats in the last couple of season come as a PH and, in general, players don't hit as well when pinch hitting. Also, his ability to also play OF positions might be worth a little something. He can always be the Joe McEwing if a better platoon partner for Valentin pops up.

He can always be the Joe McEwing if a better platoon partner for Valentin pops up.

I think that's his primary function here, J.