Jeez. What's the hurry? Has Bowden gone crazy?

What a d**k.

What's the hurry?

I'd imagine that it has a lot to do with the fact that Cordero wouldn't like the news. He's probably pretty upset with the Nationals right now, but they probably figure if he's got some time to cool off, he might stay.

I think he's a goner for sure. This could be a blessing in disguise for him.

Jeez. What's the hurry?

He's trying to tie up lose ends before he... you know

This will discourage his other pitchers from getting hurt.

Sure makes sense for them to have held onto him this long, huh.

I'd imagine that it has a lot to do with the fact that Cordero wouldn't like the news. He's probably pretty upset with the Nationals right now, but they probably figure if he's got some time to cool off, he might stay.

This is a bizarre way to maintain a business relationship. I'm sure Cordero could see a non-tender in his future, especially if he has a reasonably competent agent advising him, but announcing it publically now just seems like salting the wound.

Do pitchers with torn labrums recover well?

This is a bizarre way to maintain a business relationship.

Bizarre is probably the word I'd use to describe a lot of Jim Bowden's decisions.

What a tool.

The Nats would have to offer Cordero at least $4.96 million and they'd risk him getting more in arbitration, so non-tendering him is an easy call. But there's just no reason at all to announce it in July. Besides maybe J.P. Ricciardi, we can't imagine any GM other than Jim Bowden doing such a thing. "We have told his agent, Larry Reynolds, that we are not going to do that, based on the surgery he had," Bowden said. "His agent acknowledged that no team in baseball would do that. He certainly understands. We explained to Larry Reynolds very clearly that we have interest in keeping Chad here at a very low base salary with incentives to protect us from his shoulder. But certainly we want him here. So that's what's taken place. That's our position. I've been very clear about that."

Rotoworlds's take.

I can see having this conversation in private with a player and/or his agent, but is there any value in publicly airing this in July? Maybe getting a baseball related item in the WaPo Redskins section?

Any chance we can get a similar announcement for Luis Ayala?

Besides maybe J.P. Ricciardi, we can't imagine any GM other than Jim Bowden doing such a thing.

Actually, I can imagine JP doing this in a much more douchey manner, like announcing it on a call-in radio show and making a few disparaging remarks about Chad, then lying about Cordero's labrum.

Actually, I can imagine JP doing this in a much more douchey manner, like announcing it on a call-in radio show and making a few disparaging remarks about Chad, then lying about Cordero's labrum.

"Chad had become sort of a problem in the clubhouse, a lot of guys were complaining about his crabs and anal warts. By the time the third dead hooker showed up in his locker we knew we had to make a move. When do we go on the air?"

I figured that merely submitting the news item, with the only comment being my username, would be enough to properly convey my sentiments. It's not the non-tender that bothers me (as for not trading Cordero during the off-season when he might have had some value, well...) it's the bizarre public announcement right now in July.

And to whoever manages the "hopper" controlling submissions...sorry about forgetting to use the proper tags on this one.

"Do pitchers with torn labrums recover well?"

Almost never, no.

Sure makes sense for them to have held onto him this long, huh.

Yeah, I'd much rather have Phil Humber at this point. How's he doing anyway?

edited for unworthiness

Yeah, I'd much rather have Phil Humber at this point. How's he doing anyway?

Not recovering from torn labrum surgery. So, more useful than Cordero.

When you're in AAA putting up the line that Humber is, I think you're less valuable than someone who doesn't get on the field at all.

Not recovering from torn labrum surgery. So, more useful than Cordero.

Humber had TJ surgery. When he first came back, it looked like he was going to re-gain his velocity as he had a couple of relief outings in 2006 where he was throwing 93-95 MPH. But his velocity has steadily decreased since then.

"But his velocity has steadily decreased since then."

They should put him in a swimming pool and check him for leaks.

They should put him in a swimming pool and check him for leaks.

What a tyred joke!

Great Job, Bodes!

One baseball source said that Cordero is so angry by the early announcement that he plans not to re-sign with the Nationals next year.

Cordero doesn't want to belong to a club that would have him as a member.
Did the Nats offer him a long term deal last year? I don't remember
Just like with Soriano, Bowden blew it by not trading Cordero when he could
Maybe that's why he traded Rauch for (what seems to be the consensus) less than market value?
Here's hoping Rauch stays healthy

Anyhow, which team would want Cordero anyhow? I think he's on the Rocky Biddle career path

The Rauch trade was an awful baseball decision. This non-tendering is just poor people skills. It's as if he was bored and just wanted to get started on his fall work.

The Rauch trade was an awful baseball decision.

Bonifacio will make you eat your words one day. I think that, by just looking at Bonifacio's stats, it's really difficult to fully understand how much scouts like him for his speed, athleticism and defense. That still counts for a lot. And if there's one thing Rizzo knows well, it's the players he acquired/drafted for the Dbacks.

Sign. Not the Soriano crap again.

They got Josh Smoker and Jordan Zimmermann (the latter is emerging as their best pitching prospect and seemingly a future #2-type) with the picks they got from the Cubs.

And if there's one thing Rizzo knows well, it's the players he acquired/drafted for the Dbacks.

Yeah! The acquisition of Matt Chico and Garrett Mock sure is paying dividends!

25,
I have to think that Bowden either knew Cordero wouldn't take any deal like the one Bowden said he wanted to offer (low money, high incentives) or - for some reason - didn't want Cordero back on any deal when he announced this non-tender in this manner

I caught the segment live. I don't think Bowden planned it. I just think he answered a question truthfully without the intent of making news without thinking through the consequences.

I've read a few different accounts where it's possible that Cordero's agent knew this was coming, but I haven't seen a definite one way or another. Regardless, if the agent's not a dullard, he knew there'd be now way that Cordero would be tendered.

29,
WTF is going on with Smoker? I expect young pitchers to struggle sometimes, and I don't want to read too much into 5 low-A starts... those 5 low-A starts are HORRIBLE.

He had one of the best GA HS careers for a pitcher in recent memory and he was supposed to be a lefty with a deep repatoire and solid velo.. whats going on and is it related to what dropped his draft stock in late-April last year?

I think Bowden got confused by the surname and thought he was just tying up some Dominican loose ends before the Feds got involved.

WTF is going on with Smoker? I expect young pitchers to struggle sometimes, and I don't want to read too much into 5 low-A starts... those 5 low-A starts are HORRIBLE.

Not anything internal, but my belief is they over-assigned him in Low A. Got smacked around and threw him off.

Now we know that Bowden's pretty classless (as if there were doubts before):

Before Bowden revealed the team's intentions (during an AM sports talk interview) to non-tender the closer come December, the GM had not spoken about the move to Cordero or his agent, Larry Reynolds. "My dad called me," Cordero said, explaining how he received the news. "He had received a phone call from a friend who heard on the radio. My dad got the call, and then he called me and told me. That's how I found out. Bowden never once made contact with myself or my agent before he announced it on the radio."

Yeah! The acquisition of Matt Chico and Garrett Mock sure is paying dividends!

I'm sure Livan would've led the Nationals to the World Series last year. The Nats got one cheap year out of Chico before he blew out his elbow, and Mock is pitching very well in AAA. What's wrong with him?

They could've had a cheap year out of Steve Trachsel too. He's got about as big a future as Chico!

Mock? Looks to me like a marginal guy. His hit totals are consistently obscene, especially for someone who strikes out as many as he does. It's not just defense. He's way too hittable.

He seems to have improved that slightly this season, so maybe there's a chance. But from the game or two I saw him pitch, I can't say I was especially impressed.

The problem is Smoker is about as sharp as a bowling ball mentally. He's never struggled at the only thing he's good at, now there's a little pressure and he's got to deal with it. The arm is still there, the head needs alot of work.

Kyler Burke (Cubs, via the Padres) is the area's (30 miles north) other recent sandwich pick that has sucked out loud every since getting drafted. Terrific kid...wood bats and real pitching must have just confounded him because he couldn't miss against some decent arms when he played high school ball.

38: I'm really sorry Rizzo couldn't acquire Chad Billingsley and Matt Kemp for Livan. His proven veteranness was wasted. Such a shame.

That wasn't the point. I was just observing that Rizzo's track record of acquiring his own prospects doesn't mean the the second baseman is going to be much of anything.

39,
Calhoun also had their SS, Culberson, go in the supp round (or maybe second round) last year. For a small/mid-size town that HS has had quite a run. Two top picks, Culberson and Smoker; several good college players (the 3 Robbins.. one of whom was a top 10-15 round pick) and some sOoltate titles in a tough state.

I wonder if Burke goes to college football after this year. He was, IIRC, a 2/3 star LB prospect. Not a future star but a guy who could play for a mediocre I-A or a good I-AA

Sufficiently pwned, Levski slips into the night...

Kyler Burke (Cubs, via the Padres) is the area's (30 miles north)

Come on, why would you pass up an opportunity to type the word "Ooltewah"?

Ooltewah Ooltewah Ooltewah

oOlTeWaH

Living as a Nationals fan means experiencing one indignity on top of another, every day. Right now, the fan base would like to storm Nationals Park with pitchforks. Jim Bowden, Clint, the guy who plays "Sweet Caroline" on the P.A. system when the opponent makes a pitching change -- consider yourself warned.

Sufficiently pwned, Levski slips into the night.

You're an idiot.

I was just observing that Rizzo's track record of acquiring his own prospects doesn't mean the the second baseman is going to be much of anything.

Using the Livan trade to cast judgment on the Rauch transaction, and thus Rizzo's knowledge of the Dbacks prospects, is stupid. For example, I know from a solid source that Rizzo tried (unsuccessfully) to acquire Carlos Quentin last summer, right before the July deadline, and then Carlos Gonzalez in the offseason. If he'd managed to buy low on Quentin, would you say he got lucky, because the Livan trade was the true litmus test of his knowledge of the Dbacks system? Or if he got CarGo in the offseason, would you be bashing him for not getting Conor Jackson as a throw-in? I'm sure you'd do significantly better job than Rizzo, mind you. I'm guessing you'd be steamrolling the other 29 GMs like a German tank in Minsk.

The Livan trade was first and foremost a money dump; and secondly, the Nats could only negotiate with the Dbacks at the time. If you'll recall, NO team in baseball wanted Livan before the July 31st deadline, not even the pitching starved Mets. So when the Nats tried to pass Livan through waivers in August, the Dbacks claimed him. Rizzo had 2 choices: pull him back, or get something decent from AZ. He couldn't demand that much because he really had very little leverage. So he got two arms and saved himself about $7m. And Chico, despite blowing his arm recently, was about as effective in 2007 as Livan, for the major league minimum. And at the time the trade happened, Mock was the #7 or #8 prospect of the Dbacks, and Chico was in the top 15. And, at the time, the Dbacks system had a lot of more talent than now.

So back to my original point: Rizzo has forgotten more about the Dbacks system, and basically any other system in the game, than you'll ever learn in your lifetime, regardless of how smart you think you are. Maybe Bonifacio flames out, and maybe he turns into a quality major league 2nd baseman. Nobody knows. But the fact that Rizzo, who signed him a while back, liked him enough to acquire him, means a lot more to me than your snarkass analysis of the Livan trade.

It will be pretty sad if Cordero can't comeback from the injury, as he had the makings of an above-average ace reliever.

The marvel of a Mariano Rivera or Trevor Hoffman isn't that dominated the competition. It's that they managed to maintain that level of performance for 15+ years. Guys like Robb Nen had just as devastating stuff, but couldn't stay healthy past into their 30s.

Hope Cordero makes it back, even if he is as big a dick as some of his teammates think he is.

even if he is as big a dick as some of his teammates think he is.

This is the first I've ever heard of this. What are you basing this on?

What are you basing this on?

Length or width - inquiring minds want to know!

[deleted cause there's no point in arguing with strawmen]

[deleted cause there's no point in arguing with strawmen]

Translation:
"Hi, I'm Chris.
I really don't have anything smart to say. Came into this thread to make a snark about Rizzo, but now I'm up a creek without a paddle. So I'm pretending I had something really smart to post here but in reality, I got nothing. So I'm using fancy words like "strawman" to hide my naked butt."

Chris, you wrote [emphasis mine]:

2. Chris Needham Posted: August 07, 2006 at 02:12 PM (#2130315)
The Nats have a press release on it.

I'm torn on it. I really enjoyed watching Livan, and he's been close to his old self over the last month and a half or so. The Nats need pitching and $7 million seems to be the going rate for a league average guy. But yet they need the prospects, and Mike Rizzo certainly would know who to pilfer from the system.

So Rizzo knew the Dbacks system at the time of the Livan trade but he's forgotten it since?

I'll repeat it again: the Livan trade was different from the Rauch trade because it was a) money dump and b) August deal where the Nats could only trade with AZ, or keep Livan. The Nats wanted to save money, and as you admitted, they needed young arms in the system. Just because Chico and Mock haven't turned into Spahn and Sain doesn't make Rizzo a bad evaluator of talent. And if you'll re-read the thread above, many people here felt Rizzo robbed the Dbacks.

Back to Bonifacio: I don't know if he'll be any good. But Rizzo likes him. And Rizzo knows more about him than I or you ever will. That's good enoughfor me.

For ####'s sake. I didn't say that he's bad evaluator of talent. I just said that I'm not ready to assume this is a great trade because the last time he got prospects (duh it's a different kind of deal! Thanks for that! I wasn't aware), they turned out to be nothing.

Your last paragraph there nails it. Neither of us know whether he'll turn out to be any good. I don't like what I see from the stats, but they don't always tell the whole story.

You're just willing to defer to the experts. I'm not. End of story.

That's more like it, Chris. Some passion, some fire. That's what we like to see.

For what it's worth, it seems Rizzo likes Bonifacio more than Josh Byrnes and co. did:

But internally, the Diamondbacks had reservations about whether Bonifacio would hit enough to be an above-average, everyday player, meaning his departure doesn't change much - questions remain about Hudson and about what could happen should he depart.

Of course, judging by how anxious the Dbacks were to discard Scott Hairston and Carlos Quentin, I'm betting that Bonifacio will turn out to be an excellent second baseman for a long time

I typically reserve my passion and fire for the incompetent stooge that's keeping Rizzo from the job!

At the very least... if Bonifacio is as good as advertised defensively, he's going to be useful. One of the biggest differences between this year and last year for the Nats is some truly horrific defense.

I do know the Nats were interested in Quentin last year. I'm really surprised they didn't get involved more heavily.

I recall rumors of a three way trade (Cordero to NYM, Heilman to ARI, Quentin to WAS) but the Mets didn't think Cordero was enough improvement on Heilman (and were right). So that was that. Not sure what happened in the offseason, but maybe the Nats focused on Milledge instead, and by that time they already had Willy Mo as well. So who knows...