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well... that's a little much.
I'll just never understand this at all about MJ. Thriller was a great album and he had some great hits with the Jackson 5, but jeez. For the last 25 years he's been a weirdo with inapporiate relationships with children and Elizabeth Taylor. And musically, he can't even hold a candle to Al Green. The cult of Michael Jackson will always be one of the pop culture phenomenons of my lifetime that will baffle me.
ya gotta feel for Farrah, though... upstaged on your death day...
Ryan O'Neal must be peeved!
This reminds me of an odd story where a friend of mine's band opened for whatever project Sky was doing -- oh, about 10 years ago. It was part of some festival thing. I forget the band's name, but it was somewhat dark and violent or some such. Anyway, Sky talked to them for about half an hour about how their name was inappropriate, that it would create negative energy. Okay, okay, everyone said, let's humor the (aging, losing it) genius.
Before the show, several hours later, Sky comes in and tells them what their band's name should be -- accompanied by several pages of notes and a ####### DIAGRAM explaining how he reached this conclusion.
They didn't change their name, never "made it," and dissolved a few months later.
Dummies. I'll tell you one thing -- if Sky Saxon ever told me what I should call my band, you damn well better believe I would take his advice.
I'd say that is understating it.
That is too.
More like a bisexual version of Rickey Henderson. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I was trying not to flame the thread.
Yeah, it didn't work. ;-)
Oboy. I just hope we don't get a digression about how those kids enjoyed the attention. I will ####### lose it!
Closer to 15-20.
Jacko isn't my cup of tea - but even living through the 80s as AOR guy, it's selling his musical career short to ignore Off the Wall -- and even Bad and Black and White are perfectly appropriate output for a first ballot HOFer.
Lord knows this will ruin the thread, but Al Sharpton was right about Jacko's influence in the 80s -- he was the musical Cliff Huxtable. African-American acts were not getting airplay on MTV -- nor, for the most part, on pop radio stations. Jackson and Thriller changed that. For better or worse, he shattered a lot of the musical boundaries that demanded music be slotted into neat, confining formats.
On top of that, lost in his later weirdness were some of the things he did that superseded music -- I'm thinking in particular of the whole Ryan White episode... It's was Jackson's support and friendship with White that did more than anything else to get AIDS treated as a disease to be researched rather than a hysteria where those afflicted were to be feared and stigmatized. Add to that, USA for Africa/We are the World and a host of other activities.
I doubt there would be any Jackson albums on my 100 deserted islands list -- but that doesn't mean I don't recognize the superior quality of his talents and output.
We have this incessant need to make our judgments of people a binary proposition, slotting them into good/bad, normal/weird, etc... Most - Jackson included - are more complicated than that.
He may not have been the Babe Ruth of music -- but Stan Musial or someone else in the pantheon is absolutely appropriate.
well... that's a little much.
No, "a little much" is Ryan O'Neal's quote about Farrah: "Now she belongs to the ages." Yeah, Stanton's epitaph for Lincoln seems fair game for the passing of a woman whose greatest claim to fame was posing for a poster with one of her mammalian protuberances showing through her bikini top.
Let's think about this before we dismiss it out of hand...
Didn't Carson star in The Burning Bed?
Yet curiously, if you show a picture of Thriller era Michael Jackson to folks a couple of years younger than I am, it wouldn't surprise me if very few of them recognize it as Michael Jackson.
Anyway, death is sad. It is hardly unexpected, however.
"He touched so many people during his life"
That's the surprising part. Of course, I'm 41 now, not 11. I think I get her and Cheryl Tiegs mixed up a bit. They were both blonde poster girls around that time. Is Farrah the one who was loopy a few years back on Letterman?
Yes
I think the most surprising thing about Michael Jackson dying at 50 is that he actually made it that long.
His music wasn't my cup of tea (though I do like Off the Wall quite a bit), but that he was wacko, or hadn't done anything in decades (do people count that against Stevie Wonder or Johnny Cash or Mick Jagger?) is irrelevant.
Michael Jackson RIP.
Steeltown to nearly all downtown after that...
I think the most surprising thing about Michael Jackson dying at 50 is that he actually made it that long.
I can't even picture Michael being old. He seemed destined for a young, early death.
I get what bunyon says. I don't really understand why people get very worked up about the death about someone they don't know personally at all. But I guess that speaks to how celebrities do affect our lives through their art. I'm not a big Michael Jackson fan (although with the songs they're playing today on the radio and TV, I'm kinda surprised how many of his songs I like) but FWIW I hope he's finally escaped whatever demons have seemingly been plaguing him his entire life. He seemed like a man very much in pain.
Elvis is the Babe Ruth of pop music, the Beatles are Walter Johnson, and Michael Jackson is Hank Aaron.
Why?
Buddy Holly/Richie Valens/Big Bopper plane crash
Patsy Cline plane crash
Hank Williams car crash
Jimi Hendrix
Janis Joplin
Jim Morrison
Kurt Kobain's suicide
Andy Gibb
Mama Cass
Bobby Darin
Tupac's murder
Biggie's murder
Sam Cooke's murder
Left Eye's car crash
Lynyrd Skynyrd plane crash
Jim Croce plane crash
Stevie Ray Vaughn plane crash
Ricky Nelson plane crash
John Denver plane crash
Keith Moon
Brian Jones
John Bonham
I know I'm leaving out a lot, and I didn't go into people who were old or sick, such as Sinatra, Crosby, George Harrison, Johnny Cash, etc. But yeah, pretty big story, huh?
EDIT: oops... my eyes missed it.
I'll agree with them on the Ts, as the second is pretty superfluous, but all three As are pretty much needed for her name to be pronounced the same way.
EDIT: oops... my eyes missed it.
You think that maybe Chipper needs to read this story to Frenchy, hoping he will take the hint?
Knew I'd miss one! And Selena's murder, too.
Marvin Gaye's murder.
Not to mention that at that time she was still married to, and used the last name of, Lee Majors, adding an additional "a", embarrassing the parents further.
U2's release of Joshua Tree.
Too soon?
I'd say MJ is more like the Manny Ramirez of music. Great performances, but a lot of WTF? moments.
Well, sometimes you "spend time" with a famous person more than your real life friends and family. Watching Ed on the Tonight Show every night, jerking off to Farrah's poster every night, listening to MJ cassette tapes on your boom box every night.
I had a hard time when Michael Houser died. Thats about the only time a famous person's death struck me in a personal matter.
My wife was a huge MJ fan as a kid and early teen, and last night wasn't fun for her. I've come to appreciate MJ as we play his music and dance with our two little girls. I've probably danced to MJ music with my girls more than anyone else.
shrug. life is weird sometimes.
I usually don't get saddened by celebrity deaths, but David Foster Wallace's suicide really got to me.
Nah, I've danced to plenty of MJ music with your girls.
Roberto Alomar, maybe...
And I just KNEW I'd miss a totally obvious one! Or more?
(EDIT) Also:
Kurt Kobain's <strike>suicide</strike> murder
Big difference, JC. Even people who mock everything else about old time baseball tip their whatevers to Babe Ruth, if for no other reason that they always admire an dude who could grab all that pazooosy. And 61 years after his death, he's still the standard for sluggers.
IOW come back in 60 years and see if they're saying anything remotely like that about Michael Jackson. Maybe they will, but I wouldn't bet on it. Doesn't mean that he wasn't a fabulous talent, and it has nothing to do with all the irrelevant dirt about his private life. It just means that he wasn't "Babe Ruth."
Buddy Holly/Richie Valens/Big Bopper plane crash
Patsy Cline plane crash
Hank Williams car crash
Jimi Hendrix
Janis Joplin
Jim Morrison
Kurt Kobain's suicide
Andy Gibb
Mama Cass
Bobby Darin
Tupac's murder
Biggie's murder
Sam Cooke's murder
Left Eye's car crash
Lynyrd Skynyrd plane crash
Jim Croce plane crash
Stevie Ray Vaughn plane crash
Ricky Nelson plane crash
John Denver plane crash
Keith Moon
Brian Jones
John Bonham
I'll guarantee one thing: Whatever name you choose from that list will say much more about your age and your personal musical taste than anything else.
I'll say one thing, though. Very few of those deaths made the top of the fold of the New York Times front page the way that Jackson's death did today. That's getting into Sinatra and Dimaggio territory.
A Pantera guitarist was murdered a year or two ago. Onstage, IIRC.
Will they be saying that about Sinatra or the Beatles? Honestly I'm not sure. At some point everyone that heard these artists when they were first relevant will be dead.
You can't compare baseball and music directly like that.
(If I immediately ignore my own advice I would agree that he isn't the Babe Ruth of music, but surely he is a Mantle or Dimaggio.)
Didn't he have some sleazy name like Dime Bag? I thought it funny the outpouring of sympathy for a guy with such an unsympathetic name.
Yeah. That was a sad one, too.
I can't imagine how sad it would have been to have seen the Kennedys and King get murdered. My generation just hasn't seen anything like that. The closest for me would be Lennon's murder and Reagan getting shot and I was just a touch too young to understand the full scope of those two.
So God kills Michael Jackson
AO
Will they be saying that about Sinatra or the Beatles? Honestly I'm not sure. At some point everyone that heard these artists when they were first relevant will be dead.
You can't compare baseball and music directly like that.
Of course you're right about that. I was only reacting to the hyperbole.
(If I immediately ignore my own advice I would agree that he isn't the Babe Ruth of music, but surely he is a Mantle or Dimaggio.)
That's a pretty fair comparison, maybe a combination of Mantle's talent and Dimaggio's aura & mystique. Though I'm not sure that Elvis Presley's daughter is quite the match for Marilyn Monroe.
The surgeon of sound? The Phd of play by play? Oh, the other Dr. King.
I heard about Lennon the next morning. As for Reagan, I was listening to the radio and some Police song was finishing up and the DJ said that he got shot. We turned the TV on to see the coverage after that.
The Beatles = 1927 Yankees with more hallucinogens
Michael Jackson = Pick one: Alex Rodriguez, Ken Griffey Jr. (replacing Griffey's injuries with Jackson's freakiness episodes), Big Ed Delahanty, Barry Bonds, Pete Rose
John Lennon = Shoeless Joe Jackson talent with Lyman Bostock or Ray Chapman's ending
Buddy Holly = Roberto Clemente
Jim Croce = Thurman Munson
Amen
One of Skynyrd's back-up singers?
I was in 7th grade; Sister Collette was called over to the door and the principal, Sr. Walburga (yes, Walburga), spoke to her in a low voice. Sr. Collette came back into the room crying and said that something bad had happened by she couldn't tell us. We went back to our lessons!
Since we were only a year from the Cuban Missle Crisis, I assumed that WWIII had broken out. When my friend Gary and I left the school to walk home as we always did, his dad was waiting in the parking lot. Gary's dad was not one to do anything with his kids so this was scary. As I hopped into the car, I asked if WWIII had started. I was actually relieved to hear that it was "just" an assassination.
That weekend was very subdued but by Sunday afternoon I was out playing some touch football in the street when one of the kids next door said that Oswald had been shot. That was as surreal of an event as any in my life.
Randy Rhoades?
One other thing I recall about Presley's death: When the news was announced on the radio, the network newscast used "Kentucky Rain" as a sample of his music. It's not a horrible song, but it's not really a highlight of his career, nor does it convey the cultural impact he had, the way that "Mystery Train" or "Hound Dog" or even "Suspicious Minds" would. Imagine if a newscast yesterday had used "Got To Be There" or "Ben" or "The Girl Is Mine" as a sample of Jackson's music instead of "I Want You Back" or "I'll Be There" or "Beat It.".
The only death/tragedy announcement I can remember coming over the school PA from kindergarten through high school was the Challenger explosion. Sadly, the memory is forever tied to the class wise ass remarking, over the silence of the classroom "Well, that's one less teacher to worry about."... this was in 6th grade!
You went to a classier school than I did. Our school's principal informed us of the assassination via intercom at the end of one class. By the time I reached my next class my teacher was ready with the line 'They shot the wrong one'.
C'mon that's insulting. If I go with the sentiments, how about Ty Cobb? One of the great players of all time, but with demons that keep some from even talking about anything but his skills. I'm not sure how many of you here really into music, but Michael Jackson is pretty transcendent and easily on the Mt. Rushmore of musical acts of the 20th century.
I think that sells the Stones a bit short -- but I guess when you add the fact that, beyond Jones, they've amazingly all been able to stay alive this long and they also seem hell bent on sabotaging their legacy by refusing to get off the stage - it's understandable.
That was a total shocker, and I remember it like it was yesterday. I was eating breakfast and getting ready to go to work, and when I turned on the radio all I heard was an uninterrupted medley of Redding's songs, ending with Try a Little Tenderness, which IIRC was his latest hit at the time. I thought it was strange that they'd be playing all this music without any commercial interruption, but then when Sunny Jim Kelsey (the WOL DJ) broke in and just said, "Otis Redding...", I knew what must have happened. In terms of musicians, that one probably hit me the hardest of them all.
I don't think it was classy at all. As much as I loved Sr. Collette (my favorite elementary teacher) I've always held this against her, even though she was under strict orders. We had a right to know -- wouldn't spending the last hour of the day discussing what happened be a 100 times more educational than diagramming some sentences or spouting catechism answers? Plus you had kids like me with runaway imaginations not paying attention anyway because we were wondering if life on the planet earth would survive the night.
That's their perogative. It's also my perogative to not go and see them. At least they haven't pretended to retire a number of times like The Who. Besides, other artists like Sinatra continued to perform at an advanced age. Dave Brubeck still plays from time to time.
Who does he bump? Ella Fitzgerald? Duke Ellington? Sinatra? Elvis? Louis Armstrong? Dylan? Pavement? Insanity!
That's exactly who I was thinking he compared to! No shame in that.
Obviously, I don't know what people will say. Its a bit different musically b/c most everyone is trying to be different (rather than the same), and most of the musical aspects can be imitable.
IOW if every pop-blues guy compares himself to Howlin Wolf and every Jazz player compares himself to Scott Joplin, it doesn't necessarily tell the story of those that came between them.
Jackson was the king of pop. He did it worldwide and sold a ton of records. He was a media icon, and he changed many projects particularly through his 80s peak.
WRT celebrity deaths;
(1) Kurt Cobain caused a reaction. We were around the same age; I was in my "invulnerable 20s" and someone like me who had acheived much fame and fortune was killed in a non-freak accident kind of way. It caused me to pause on my mortality.
(2) I was a bit sad by Joe Strummer's death. The Clash was the band that got me off the normal radio stations and starting to listen to something besides whatever 70s soft-pop, proto-disco was on the radio. It felt like a chapter was closed.
i can remember where i was for JFK, MLK, RFK, Joplin, Hendrix, Morrison, Elvis, Lennon.
it got to where you sort of expected certain types of celebs to die young or unexpectedly.
which is why it surprises me no end that the stones are still around. guess jones took care of that karma or something.
There were not teenage girls in Japan passing out when Al Jolson walked by.
That's actually a pretty good comparison, but I'd keep it confined to people who already know you pretty well. (smile)
Man in the Mirror, indeed! It's almost like they were going in opposite directions.
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