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Saturday, May 10, 2008

MLB: Source: Hanley to sign six-year deal

According to a high-ranking Major League Baseball source, the Marlins have reached a tentative agreement on a six-year, $70 million contract with their star shortstop. The deal is not expected to be formally announced for at least a few days.

Tom Cervo, backup catcher Posted: May 10, 2008 at 05:52 AM | 42 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. Will Shave Off My Listach for an O's Win Posted: May 10, 2008 at 10:22 AM (#2775783)

You know, I'm starting to think maybe the Marlins know what they are doing.

2. Dan Posted: May 10, 2008 at 10:30 AM (#2775786)

The fact that Ramirez is still playing SS instead of CF says they might not.

3. Will Shave Off My Listach for an O's Win Posted: May 10, 2008 at 11:08 AM (#2775790)

Thanks for reminding me. My head was about to explode.

4. John DiFool2 Posted: May 10, 2008 at 11:32 AM (#2775792)

His ZR is respectable this year, .811 last I checked, which is still better than Jeter, tho in the bottom 1/4 for all ML SS.

5. andrewberg Posted: May 10, 2008 at 11:45 AM (#2775793)

It is possible for a young player to improve defensively. Hanley always looked a little bit lost to me at SS, not like he didn't care or didn't have the athleticism, but that he might get better with experience. Especially with the team out of contention for the last couple of years- and probably the next couple- I think it is perfectly reasonable to let him see if he can make it work, because he's far more valuable as an average SS than a slightly above average CF (which is a lofty expectation in itself).

6. Darren

Posted: May 10, 2008 at 11:46 AM (#2775794)

If he can just be a below average SS he's a great.

If I were Hanley, I'd keep in mind the Carlos Delgado contract. Make sure to get a no-trade so you can at least control where you're going.

7. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 10, 2008 at 11:54 AM (#2775795)

I looked this up a while back, and don't feel like it now, but Hanley Ramirez was consistently rated as having the best infield tools in the Red Sox organization as a minor leaguer. My guess is that, having been a bit rushed to the majors, Ramirez has put in an incredible amount of work to make himself into a big league hitter, but has not yet put in the time to get his defense up to speed. I still think there's room for improvement, and as Darren said, Hanley with a -7 glove at SS is an MVP contender year in and year out.

8. Darren

Posted: May 10, 2008 at 12:25 PM (#2775809)

His ZR is up considerably this year. That's progress.

9. Darren

Posted: May 10, 2008 at 12:28 PM (#2775811)

What's Hanley likely to make in arb next year? With Howard getting $10 mil, it's hard to believe that Hanley won't get $12 or more. A .330 hitter with ~30 HR and ~50 SB, who plays SS. That's got to be worth a lot. If I were I him, I'd be a little tempted to see what I could get through arb.

10. Dan Posted: May 10, 2008 at 12:29 PM (#2775812)

But he'll be worth more in a trade when he's locked up to a reasonable deal.

11. Yankee Redneck is a Pinhead. Posted: May 10, 2008 at 12:42 PM (#2775817)

I suppose this is a good use of Mr. Steinbrenner's money.

12. Scott Kazmir's breaking balls Posted: May 10, 2008 at 12:50 PM (#2775821)

#11
Please see #6. Makes perfect sense.

13. Moneyball can't buy you love (Joey B.) Posted: May 10, 2008 at 01:18 PM (#2775845)

You know, I'm starting to think maybe the Marlins know what they are doing.

They don't spend money, but I'd argue that the Marlins organization is as good at talent identification and gets as much out of what they have as any team in the league.

14. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 10, 2008 at 01:20 PM (#2775848)

They don't spend money, but I'd argue that the Marlins organization is as good at talent identification and gets as much out of what they have as any team in the league.

I'd love to see what Larry Beinfest could do if he was just given, say, the Twins budget.

15. Danny Posted: May 10, 2008 at 01:46 PM (#2775869)

I'd love to see what Larry Beinfest could do if he was just given, say, the Twins budget.

2005 Payroll
Marlins: $60.4M
Twins: $56.2M

16. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: May 10, 2008 at 02:09 PM (#2775885)

2005 Payroll
Marlins: $60.4M
Twins: $56.2M

That's once in the past seven years that the Marlins' budget topped the Twins'. And the last three years, the Marlins have had no many at all. I think my point stands perfectly well.

17. tfbg9 Posted: May 10, 2008 at 02:19 PM (#2775896)

Small sample and all, 149 PA's, but here's Hanley's Interleague splits:

.301 .329 .434

Not exactly MVP numbers, given the kid's Jeter-D thus far. Very nice for a SS of course.

18. MSI Posted: May 10, 2008 at 02:36 PM (#2775911)

Doesn't the NL have better batters now? The crop of 1b and most DH's in the AL are not that inspiring. Only a couple of players hit over 40 hrs last year for example, versus a whole bunch in the NL.

19. Raskolnikov Posted: May 10, 2008 at 03:06 PM (#2775925)

This could be good news for the Mets. At least it starts the parameters for a Reyes extension. Get it done, Omar!

20. Harveys Wallbangers

Posted: May 10, 2008 at 04:04 PM (#2775960)

In limited viewing (three game series) Hanley looked a lot smoother and at ease. Less thinking and more fluid.

FWIW

21. Cowboy Popup Posted: May 10, 2008 at 04:07 PM (#2775964)

At least it starts the parameters for a Reyes extension. Get it done, Omar!

Looking at the ZR numbers, Reyes is off to a pretty poor start. Worse than Hanley.

22. rfloh Posted: May 10, 2008 at 04:26 PM (#2775977)

Looking at the ZR numbers, Reyes is off to a pretty poor start. Worse than Hanley.

He's slightly better using RZR, 848 to 831 for Hanley, but Hanley has more out of zone plays, 11 to Reyes' 4. Reyes is off to a pretty mediocre start in RZR too though, there are 6 SS in the NL whom RZR rates higher: Tulo, Izturis, Yunel, Tejada, Bocock, Greene.

23. Darren

Posted: May 10, 2008 at 05:47 PM (#2776030)

So if his ZR goes up, it's statistical error? Reason #245 why arguing with kevin is a waste of time.

24. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: May 10, 2008 at 06:36 PM (#2776045)

There are only 245?

Looking at every remotely noteworthy transaction in Beinfest's tenure, I'm staggered by the extent to which his reputation outstrips his performance.

The lesson is that if your predecessor leaves you a cupboard full of good stuff, go ahead and trade it for less than it's collectively worth. After a time, most people won't remember half the things you gave up, so you'll only be judged on the prominent pieces you received rather than the net flow of talent, forever sealing your renown as a keen judge and developer of prospects.

25. MM1f Posted: May 10, 2008 at 07:06 PM (#2776075)

I agree. It is "unpossible" for a 24 year old with top-flight athleticism to improve his defense...
If your first year or two, defensively, is poor that is your true talent level for life...
(/sarcasm)

#29,
Of course Beinfest's "net talent flow" looks poor. And of course he traded lots of the good cupboard away. It isn't like he had a choice. He simply isn't allowed (expect possibly, surprisingly, in this case of Hanley) to keep players once they hit arbitration.
You can't evaluate a guy dealing with the unique limitations of the Marlins ownership and 20-mil payroll like you would a GM in a normal situaiton. you really can't even compare him to most other small-market situations. The best comparison to Beinfest's situation you can only see by popping "Major League" into the DVD player

26. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: May 10, 2008 at 07:37 PM (#2776093)

No. They have worse pitchers.

Who was the best pitcher to leave the NL after 2007?

Livan Hernandez? Octavio Dotel? Scott Linebrink?

27. Darren

Posted: May 10, 2008 at 09:00 PM (#2776139)

Looking at every remotely noteworthy transaction in Beinfest's tenure, I'm staggered by the extent to which his reputation outstrips his performance.

The lesson is that if your predecessor leaves you a cupboard full of good stuff, go ahead and trade it for less than it's collectively worth. After a time, most people won't remember half the things you gave up, so you'll only be judged on the prominent pieces you received rather than the net flow of talent, forever sealing your renown as a keen judge and developer of prospects.

Somewhat related questions: Is there somewhere where you can look at a list of transactions a team makes over period X?

There are only 245?

No, that's just where it is on the list.

28. Swoboda is freedom Posted: May 10, 2008 at 10:05 PM (#2776192)

This could be good news for the Mets. At least it starts the parameters for a Reyes extension. Get it done, Omar!

Reyes signed an extension last year. He and Wright.

29. AROM Posted: May 11, 2008 at 12:49 AM (#2776389)

The 6 year deal is for 2009-2014, right? Buys out 3 free agent years? Excellent deal for the Marlins. Even if the first year of the deal is the rest of 2008, and extends him through 2 free agent years it's reasonable. That would effectively pay him 10 million per arb year and 20 million per free agent year. Put him on the free agent market and he probably gets over 30 million, especially with a few more years of inflation.

30. AROM Posted: May 11, 2008 at 01:18 AM (#2776421)

My rating for Ramirez so far is -1, based on RZR and out of zone plays. If he can be no worse than a -5 shortstop then you leave him there.

31. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2008 at 01:34 AM (#2776428)

AROM,

Agreed. $10 mil/year in arb is a steal too. He should get that or more in his first year. How did you come up with -5 as the lower limit for keeping him at SS. What's the problem with him being -10?

32. Greg Maddux School of Reflexive Profanity Posted: May 11, 2008 at 03:01 AM (#2776472)

Is there somewhere where you can look at a list of transactions a team makes over period X?

Each team's official site has a list of transactions dating back to 2001 under "Roster."

33. Darren

Posted: May 11, 2008 at 03:05 AM (#2776476)

Thanks GMSRP

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MLB: Source: Hanley to sign six-year deal

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