So, plenty of Cub fans will make that trip. Plenty of Brewer fans will show up. Who do the Brewer fans root for? The head says they root for the Cubs, as the 'Stros are on their heels.

This Cub fan doesn't think they'll be able to switch gears and pull for the Cubs, though.

I like any solution that gets one game (not two) in tomorrow. Make the third one #162, which may not matter to anyone, let alone the Cubs.

Even if they were capable of it in abstract, I suspect they won't be able to in the presence of so many Cubs fans.

So, plenty of Cub fans will make that trip. Plenty of Brewer fans will show up. Who do the Brewer fans root for?

Who's to say Selig hasn't given orders to rig the Miller Park roof (it's had enough problems in the past for it to be an "accident"), thus giving the Brewers the NL Central title by default?

It'd be more efficient than trying to sneak in snipers from the Wisconsin National Guard (shove them in the Racing Sausages suits?).

Even if they were capable of it in abstract, I suspect they won't be able to in the presence of so many Cubs fans.

Oh, come on. It would take until, at least,... the third inning or something before they were expected to join in on a "Let's Go Bears" chant.

Besides, it's not like Cub fans are insufferable in a large group or anything.

Besides, it's not like Cub fans are insufferable in a large group or anything.

I'm not a good judge of this; all the Brewers fans I know think Cubs fans are insufferable asses, but then again all Brewers fans I know... well, they know me. So about the only thing I'm able to prove conclusively is that I'm an insufferable ass. This really isn't useful.

the third inning or something before they were expected to join in on a "Let's Go Bears" chant

Yeah, but for the better part of the decade, the only time the Bears aren't looking up at the Packers is when the Brewers finish ahead of the Cubs - which isn't looking very likely at this point in time.

Unless - smacks head - THAT'S how Selig's evil plan will take shape. He's going to recruit some Bears fans who aren't Cub fans, and use THEM as the snipers! Put a few in the Sausages, one in Bernie Brewer...

Unless - smacks head - THAT'S how Selig's evil plan will take shape. He's going to recruit some Bears fans who aren't Cub fans, and use THEM as the snipers! Put a few in the Sausages, one in Bernie Brewer...

The jokes about White Sox fans almost write themselves here.

MLB.com

The announcement was made after days of haggling between the Astros, the Cubs, the Commissioner's Office and the MLB Players Association. A slew of scenarios were bandied about, including playing one game in Milwaukee on Sunday and two in Houston on Monday, playing the entire series at Turner Field in Atlanta, or playing two in Houston on Monday and playing the third game upon the conclusion of the regular season.

Ryan-Sanders Baseball, which operates the Astros' Triple-A and Double-A clubs, offered to host at least one game of the series at The Dell Diamond in Round Rock.

At one point early Saturday afternoon, select Astros uniformed personnel were told to be ready to travel to Milwaukee for one game Sunday. However, later in the afternoon, the city of Houston closed downtown to the public to enable the cleanup from Hurricane Ike to begin, presumably ending the Astros' hopes to host two games of the Cubs series at Minute Maid Park.

Unless - smacks head - THAT'S how Selig's evil plan will take shape. He's going to recruit some Bears fans who aren't Cub fans, and use THEM as the snipers! Put a few in the Sausages, one in Bernie Brewer...

If Bud Selig is in charge of derailing the Cubs pennant chase, then where do I sign up for my World Series tickets?

For what it's worth, I think most Cub fans are insufferable asses, and I am a member of said union. However, there is just something appealing about imagining the Brewer fans cheering through gritted teeth hoping Fukodome actually saw the pitch he just swung and missed at, or the hysterical glee of witnessing the Soriano hop.

Maybe I just long to see Harvey's belt out a spirited rendition of "Go Cubs Go"

It's all possible. After all, we pretended we liked Jim Edmonds since June.

What is it that makes Milwaukee the most logical neutral site? It clearly isn't neutral, so what makes it preferable to San Francisco or Seattle? Are they that concerned about staying in the same time zone?

I guess they were trying to find something close to one of the teams, but they really should have found an AL park for this. I thought one of the nice things about the Angels-Indians series in Milwaukee is that baseball fans in Milwaukee didn't routinely see either of those teams (post expansion). And they had great crowds. The game I went to was packed.

It clearly isn't neutral, so what makes it preferable to San Francisco or Seattle? Are they that concerned about staying in the same time zone?

Cubs have a home game Tuesday, Astros play in PIT Tuesday. West coast flight was presumably out of the question. The Players' Union would have had a fit, and said no.

Minnesota has football all weekend, so only a DH on Monday probably would have been possible there.

$25/$60 for tickets (vs. $10 for the Indians makeup)? They know Cub fans will pay, I guess.

And they had great crowds.

It was during a snowstorm in Milwaukee, to boot, IIRC. It wasn't nice weather, I know.

Maybe I just long to see Harvey's belt out a spirited rendition of "Go Cubs Go"

Well, he was a Cub fan back in the day, but probably before "Go Cubs Go" had blessed the musical universe with its presence. Though I'd love to see it, myself.

For a minute, I was pondering the inequity of having this Astros home series with the Cubs played in Wrigley North, but then realized if Drayton McLane hadn't been such an idiot about this from the beginning, a more equitable solution might've been possible.

All I know is that they're apparently going to sell out the lower deck at full price, for "marquee" games no less. Some tickets are going at $140 face-value.

It clearly isn't neutral, so what makes it preferable to San Francisco or Seattle?

I would have loved it if they activated Candlestick for a couple of games.

I guess they were trying to find something close to one of the teams

Yeah, I suppose finding something close to one of the teams that's both available and that would be unaffected by the weather's kind of tough right about now.

I'm loving the radar--it shows Ike's remnants having completely joined with this pre-existing monsoon system that's been hammering the midwest. Tomorrow should be another fun one around here.

It was during a snowstorm in Milwaukee, to boot, IIRC. It wasn't nice weather, I know.

I don't think it was snowing in the first game, but it was cold. I drove up for the first one and it wasn't too bad.

Suggestion for anyone thinking about going: Buy tickets online and print them out beforehand. We had printed tickets from earlier in the day and walked right in. But if we had waited in line at the box office, we wouldn't have gotten in until the fourth inning. Tons of walk ups.

Frankie gets number 58.

Not the most impressive record in baseball, but still, it's not every day you see records set.

It seems to me that the Astros are totally getting hosed by this. What they ought to do is postpone the entire series (not just one game) and replay it in Houston if needed.

That doesn't really help the Astros' pocketbook, but at least it avoids the disadvantage of being a home team in the Cubs backyard. Really, even if they must play and assuming that Texas and Kansas City are unavailable, why couldn't they have moved it to Atlanta?

it's not every day you see records set.

The Olympics have spoiled me. I want to see records set every single time I watch anything.

First game was light flurries and I believe it started to snow just after the game. Great game, had a blast. Dick Vitale was at the game, a couple of pro soccer players were as well, and the ex got a DUI on the way home. All in all it was a memorable series. Had tickets to the whole series, can't beat great seats for $10.

Yeah, looking it up, the snow came after the first game, and was during the second and third games.
ESPN game recap of the second game:

Thanks to the retractable roof at Miller Park, the Indians finally get to play baseball this week -- but they still can't seem to escape the winter weather.

Heavy snow and wind gusts pelted Milwaukee throughout the day on Wednesday and was expected to continue through Thursday morning.

"The Milwaukee fans have been doing a great job showing up, especially with the weather," Indians manager Eric Wedge said. "It's annoying that the snow seems to be following us around."

The Brewers sold 16,375 tickets for Wednesday's game, and many of them showed up despite the snow as fans filled the field-level seats and part of the second deck.

It seems to me that the Astros are totally getting hosed by this. What they ought to do is postpone the entire series (not just one game) and replay it in Houston if needed.

This really is giving the Cubs two more home games. Not only are the Cubs' fans going to swarm Miller Park, but I would bet that a surprising amount of Brewers' fans will suck it up and cheer for the Cubs. Pragmatic survivalism makes you do some funny, ugly things sometimes, and right now Crew fans should be more focused on holding off the 'Stros than the almost-pipe-dream of catching the Cubs.

So, yeah, I agree that the Astros are getting badly hosed here. What's worse, it's due to something that they had no control over.

However....

That doesn't really help the Astros' pocketbook, but at least it avoids the disadvantage of being a home team in the Cubs backyard. Really, even if they must play and assuming that Texas and Kansas City are unavailable, why couldn't they have moved it to Atlanta?

...they couldn't help the hurricane. But if their greedy, shortsided owner had a lick of common sense, he would have realized that no baseball was being played in Houston in the wake of Ike this weekend. They could have played the series in a truly neutral site, if they had played this weekend. Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Washington, Kansas City; they were all free. Drayton McClane screwed his own team when he held out for home games. I have a ton of sympathy for the Houston area as they recover from this weekend. I have sympathy for the Astros for losing home games. However, I have very little sympathy for the Astros getting hosed by the way this whole saga ended, because their owner did most of the hosing to themselves.

What they ought to do is postpone the entire series (not just one game) and replay it in Houston if needed.

#### that. If they scheduled a week off between the end of the regular season and the beginning of the postseason that'd be one thing, but tacking a whole series onto the end of the regular season would create chaos for the playoff schedule given how little time off there is before the division series.

So, yeah, I agree that the Astros are getting badly hosed here. What's worse, it's due to something that they had no control over.

I don't disagree that they're getting hosed to a point, but it's not like the Cubs had any control over it either. My understanding is there was a possibility to move the games to a less Cub-friendly site earlier, but McLane basically told everyone to get bent.

EDIT: Or, what Bullpen Jesus said in the second part of his post. McLane created this situation for his team by harboring totally unrealistic expectations re. Ike's impact, and what the rest of the universe would be willing to do to play baseball games in Houston in the wake of that impact. By the time reality dawned, the options for alternate sites were limited (and sorry, but postponing the entire series until after the last scheduled regular season series is hardly an acceptable option). Screw him.

Aren't the Astros still the "home" team for these games? If so, then playing them in the Cubs' backyard might have been what it took to get them to agree, since attendance will be higher for Astros-Cubs in Milwaukee than in Atlanta, Kansas City, Washington, or Tampa, and thus their 60% share of gate money will be higher.

My understanding is there was a possibility to move the games to a less Cub-friendly site earlier, but McLane basically told everyone to get bent.

With the weather reports entering the weekend, I think that besides Milwaukee, Tampa would have been the only other available site at that point that wasn't facing a high risk of a rainout or two.

Aren't the Astros still the "home" team for these games? If so, then playing them in the Cubs' backyard might have been what it took to get them to agree, since attendance will be higher for Astros-Cubs in Milwaukee than in Atlanta, Kansas City, Washington, or Tampa, and thus their 60% share of gate money will be higher.

Perhaps, but doesn't the home team keep ALL the gate for home playoff games? If that's the case, the 'Stros would make a lot more money by making the playoffs, something that's harder to do if you give your opponents more de facto home games.

Here is a link that describes ticket revenue distribution for playoff games. Each team in the playoffs gets 19.2% of ticket revenue.

#### that. If they scheduled a week off between the end of the regular season and the beginning of the postseason that'd be one thing, but tacking a whole series onto the end of the regular season would create chaos for the playoff schedule given how little time off there is before the division series.

Except for the fact that there's no guarantee those games will be needed, and even less chance that they would need all three.

Even if they have to be played now, though, it seems that MLB is screwing the Astros by moving them to Miller Park, when Tampa is available (most likely, Texas, Kansas City, and St. Louis are all going to be rainy).


But if their greedy, shortsided owner had a lick of common sense, he would have realized that no baseball was being played in Houston in the wake of Ike this weekend. They could have played the series in a truly neutral site, if they had played this weekend. Tampa Bay, Atlanta, Washington, Kansas City; they were all free. Drayton McClane screwed his own team when he held out for home games.

Yeah, cause it's so selfish for a team to want to try to get the games in at home if at all possible.

It wasn't until Saturday when they made the choice to play Sunday in Milwaukee and those other parks are still available. Tampa is available Sunday; to my knowledge, there is no reason why the two teams couldn't go there and play a Sunday DH, rather than playing single gamea in the Cubs backyard on Sunday and Monday.

To suddenly say that the Astros somehow forfeit their right to a more neutral facility just to spite McLane for having the temerity to want to try to get the games in at Houston, that's just b.s.

I guess what I'm saying is that if they can't put the games off until the end of the regular season, they should at least play two in Tampa, rather than two in Milwaukee.

To suddenly say that the Astros somehow forfeit their right to a more neutral facility just to spite McLane for having the temerity to want to try to get the games in at Houston, that's just b.s.

I guess what I'm saying is that if they can't put the games off until the end of the regular season, they should at least play two in Tampa, rather than two in Milwaukee.

Doesn't this bring up the issue of what homefield advantage entails. Is it a favorable crowd that produces wins for the home team or familiarity with your surroundings (and the possibility of constructing a team for those surroundings) and general comfort of playing games while living at home? If it's the former, then the Astros will be getting the short end. If it's the latter, then it doesn't really matter what neutral site they choose.

I suspect it's a combination of the them, though tilted more heavily toward the latter.

Yeah, cause it's so selfish for a team to want to try to get the games in at home if at all possible.

It was a HURRICANE. It wasn't like an earthquake, or a random city-wide power outage. In those cases, yeah, no one could see it coming and you just have to play it day by day and hope for the best. MLB knew enough by Thursday late afternoon/evening to pre-emptively cancel the Friday and Saturday games. I'm no hurricane expert, having the good fortune to never having had to go through one, but I would imagine that when one rips through an area, especially a major city where a lot of services are interconnected and have to run properly for the city to function efficiently, that it takes a day or two to make sure things like the power grid and streetlights and airports are safe and working well enough to resume normal life. Not to mention time for the evacuees to come back; some of whom might be vital to that "restart" effort. So that takes care of Sunday as well. Anyone with a working brain cell and an ounce of forethought could have seen that no baseball was going to be played in Houston until Monday at the latest...and perhaps not even then.

MLB, the Astros, and Cubs could have worked all of this out by Friday and had both teams in a neutral site ready to play Saturday, Sunday, and possibly Monday if that was more palatable than playing a doubleheader. Instead, the Astros stayed home and the Cubs went back to Chicago.

It wasn't until Saturday when they made the choice to play Sunday in Milwaukee and those other parks are still available. Tampa is available Sunday; to my knowledge, there is no reason why the two teams couldn't go there and play a Sunday DH, rather than playing single games in the Cubs backyard on Sunday and Monday.

When MLB told the Cubs announced that they didn't have an idea as to where to play the now-postponed games, much less when, the Cubs decided to schedule a team workout here on Saturday and wouldn't be ready to travel until Sunday. How on earth could these teams have played a doubleheader in Tampa or anywhere else on Sunday if the Cubs weren't even going to leave Chicago until then? If they had worked this out on FRIDAY, or even early Saturday morning, then, yeah, the club could have scrambled to make travel and hotel reservations to get to Tampa on Saturday night to be ready for 2 the next day. But MLB didn't announce this until like, what, at least 6PM tonight? No MLB team is going to fly into a city and play a few hours later.

To suddenly say that the Astros somehow forfeit their right to a more neutral facility just to spite McLane for having the temerity to want to try to get the games in at Houston, that's just b.s.

From what I hear, they're the ones who vetoed the idea of playing the whole series in one of several open neutral sites this weekend. They took a gamble that they were going to be playing the games at home this weekend; a losing one, in my opinion, based on everything I listed above. And now they have to deal with whatever half-assed plan MLB can throw together on short notice.

I guess what I'm saying is that if they can't put the games off until the end of the regular season, they should at least play two in Tampa, rather than two in Milwaukee.

Both teams probably flat-vetoed the "DH on Sunday plan" due to the complexities of the arrangements and the short time available, which means that WHEREVER the Sunday game was going to be played, there would be only one, at night. Tampa is then home on Monday evening. I'm not sure how early clubs get to the ballpark to practice on gameday, but I assume it's at least 3 or 4 hours, and I'm sure the Rays wouldn't be happy if the regularly-scheduled 11:30 game bled into their prep time. Is one game in Tampa better than two in Milwaukee?

I know I shouldn't get this frustrated at this whole thing, since there are bigger things to worry about (like the Houston "restart"), but it just reminds me of a situation at work where we "drones" know that a new management plan is a bad idea for such-and-such reasons that it doesn't take a genius to forsee, we give our input which our clueless management thoroughly ignores, goes ahead with the plan anyway...and then later on wonders "what went wrong?" and "who can we blame?" In this case, the Astros are the ones wondering what went wrong and now they're stuck with what's behind door #2, fair or not.

What they ought to do is postpone the entire series (not just one game) and replay it in Houston if needed.

#### that. If they scheduled a week off between the end of the regular season and the beginning of the postseason that'd be one thing, but tacking a whole series onto the end of the regular season would create chaos for the playoff schedule given how little time off there is before the division series.

So, assume that after the regular season ends, the Cubs have clinched the division by more than 3 games, but the Astros and Brewers are withing 1.5 games. Now, instead of resting and setting their rotation for the playoffs, the Cubs have to play 1-3 more games in 2 days. And of course to preserve the integrity of the game, they are required to start Z, Dempster, and Harden, and then get to start the DS with Lilly and Marquis and a depleted bull pen. All because the Astros owner clung to the less than 1% chance of playing a game or 2 in Houston this weekend. Screw 'em.

Ironically, if a final game is required after the season to possible decide the WC, I'd be in favor of the Cubs starting Kevin Hart or someone and playing all scrubs, but then that would reward McLane's idiocy and screw the Brewers.

Yeah, cause it's so selfish for a team to want to try to get the games in at home if at all possible.

It was not possible. By Thursday, it was a near 100% certainty that Houston was going to bear the brunt of the storm and that the chances of even getting one game in on Monday were remote at best.

With the weather reports entering the weekend, I think that besides Milwaukee, Tampa would have been the only other available site at that point that wasn't facing a high risk of a rainout or two.

So why wasn't it considered?

To suddenly say that the Astros somehow forfeit their right to a more neutral facility just to spite McLane for having the temerity to want to try to get the games in at Houston, that's just b.s.

It's not "just to spite" anybody; that's a strawman. I said McLane largely brought this on himself, which he did, but the point is to get the games in. I agree with you that holding them in Tampa would be much more fair.

Nobody objects to the Astros "wanting to play their games at home." The problem is with their insisting on it long after it became obvious there was no way it could happen. Once the trajectory and size of the storm became apparent (which was at least a day before the Cub series was scheduled to start), the Astros' wanting to play those games at home became analogous to my wanting a pony.

I'm no hurricane expert, having the good fortune to never having had to go through one, but I would imagine that when one rips through an area, especially a major city where a lot of services are interconnected and have to run properly for the city to function efficiently, that it takes a day or two to make sure things like the power grid and streetlights and airports are safe and working well enough to resume normal life.

Yes, which is why it was amusing to read about Astros' employees checking and approving the state of the ballpark after Ike hit, while ignoring that almost the entire rest of the city was blacked out (without even getting into both Houston airports being closed). They apparently thought a park full of people and the visiting team could just be teleported inside Enron.

It seems to me that the Astros are totally getting hosed by this. What they ought to do is postpone the entire series (not just one game) and replay it in Houston if needed.

Sometimes nature hoses you (in this case, almost literally). You're right that they should have written off playing in Houston, but what they should have done was play the series somewhere on the west coast. It sounds like that wasn't seriously considered. My guess is that both sides nixed the idea.

Similarly, if they had postponed it to the end of the season, it puts the Cubs in the position of having to mess up their postseason rotation, most likely for the benefit of sorting out the Wild Card. As far as I'm concerned, that would qualify as "hosed" if it were to come to be. Hell, even if they have to make up one game on the Monday after the season ends it qualifies as "hosed" to me.

Now that things are the way they are, it's going to be difficult for anyone to get out of Chicago today. Good luck to anyone braving the roads to drive to Milwaukee. Today, Chicago should pass up the 10 inch mark for rainfall on the month.

So, assume that after the regular season ends, the Cubs have clinched the division by more than 3 games, but the Astros and Brewers are withing 1.5 games. Now, instead of resting and setting their rotation for the playoffs, the Cubs have to play 1-3 more games in 2 days. And of course to preserve the integrity of the game, they are required to start Z, Dempster, and Harden, and then get to start the DS with Lilly and Marquis and a depleted bull pen. All because the Astros owner clung to the less than 1% chance of playing a game or 2 in Houston this weekend.

Precisely. If objecting to that as a Cub fan makes me "selfish," then so be it. The scenario you describe would not be at all implausible if the three games were tacked onto the end. Would've been a hell of a way to reward the Cubs for earning home field.

Today, Chicago should pass up the 10 inch mark for rainfall on the month.

Hell, we could pass it for the last two days. 6.63 inches yesterday (the wettest day on record), it's been raining all night, and we've got a few more hours of it.

The rain looks like it should blow out in time for one of the Tigers/Sox games to be played, if these newfangled drainage systems work as advertised, but I don't see how they play the whole DH.

It was clear that the storm was going to have a major impact on Houston on Thursday evening, by the way. The chances of a minimal impact were very low. The actual impact came far short of a worst case scenario, and yet Houston is in a pretty bad state of affairs right now.

And of course to preserve the integrity of the game, they are required to start Z, Dempster, and Harden, and then get to start the DS with Lilly and Marquis and a depleted bull pen. All because the Astros owner clung to the less than 1% chance of playing a game or 2 in Houston this weekend

If the Cubs have already clinched there is no way they start Z, Dempster, and Harden. Hell, there is probably no way they start Lillu or Marquis either. Almost the entire series will be played by the bench and September call ups. MLB can't force the Cubs nor would they force the Cubs to play their top tier talent. The games would be a minor annoyance for the Cubs, nothing more.

The actual impact came far short of a worst case scenario, and yet Houston is in a pretty bad state of affairs right now.

The city just announced a weeklong nightime curfew from 9PM till 6AM lasting till Saturday. Parts of I-10 are still under water. I hate to pile on (well, hate is a little too strong), but this was easily foreseeable last Thursday. "Once it stops raining, we can get the series in." Yeah, right.

If the Cubs have already clinched there is no way they start Z, Dempster, and Harden. Hell, there is probably no way they start Lillu or Marquis either. Almost the entire series will be played by the bench and September call ups. MLB can't force the Cubs nor would they force the Cubs to play their top tier talent. The games would be a minor annoyance for the Cubs, nothing more.

IOW, screw over the Brewers and reward the Astros for their owner's idiotic decision. No, if the Cubs did that there would be widespread outrage and the league would almost certainly get involved.

No they wouldn't.

Teams do this all the time in late September, early October. Some teams whines about it, some reporters write about, and nothing is done.

There is no way that the league is going to force and there is no way they can force them to play their best players in meaningless games for the Cubs.

Does the league force any other playoff bound team to play their aces instead of skipping their starts in the last series of the regular season? No they don't, so the league can go take a piss in a lake. They have no leg to stand on.

Nobody objects to the Astros "wanting to play their games at home." The problem is with their insisting on it long after it became obvious there was no way it could happen. Once the trajectory and size of the storm became apparent (which was at least a day before the Cub series was scheduled to start), the Astros' wanting to play those games at home became analogous to my wanting a pony.

It was realistic to think that the games might be played on Sunday and Monday, even up through Saturday morning. McLane may have been reflecting optimism, but it wasn't unrealistic, and it is exactly how I would have acted, based on the information at the time. Unless you live in the Houston area, I don't see how you can take that position. The impact on the Houston area was not known with much certainty 48 hours in advance of the hurricane and even up to the last few hours a change in location of 30 - 50 miles (which happens often) would make a significant difference in the impact. This game wasn't scheduled to be played in Galveston...Houston is 50 miles inland. Even at this point, a game could have been scheduled at MMP Sunday and Monday and probably 25% - 30% normal capacity would have showed up. For people living downtown or near downtown, it would have been a nice diversion. The reason given by McLane for not playing the games is to show respect to fans who are facing significant damage at their homes...it wasn't because the games couldn't be played.

If the Astros acted in the manner some of you imply, then the Astros (and teams in Florida too) would be canceling games every other week in August/September whenever there is a material probability that a hurricane could hit the area. We remember Hurricane Rita which was forecasted to hit Houston/Galveston and veered to the Texas/Louisiana border at the last minute. That is just the nature of dealing with hurricanes along the coast. (This hurricane was forecasted to adjust north-northeast at some point, and the extent to which it would land more eastward, the less severe the damage to Houston...similar to Rita's path.)

Personally, I would have favored playing the Sunday and Monday games at Dell Diamond in Round Rock. The stadium, which is a very high quality AAA facility, was offered by the Sanders ownership group. It would have been more in keeping with an Astros home game from a fan support standpoint, and also might have provided a diversion to many evacuees from the Texas coast who are now in the Central Texas area.

I think the Astros aren't screwed enough. McLane insisted on waiting so, now, the league should say, you have a home game scheduled that you said would be playable, so play it. When they respond that they can't, the Astros should forfeit the series. Okay, not totally serious, but this idea that there was any chance of playing these games is just dumb. The Astros had better offers and left on the table in a hissy that "things out of their control" were happening. Things out of your control happen to everyone, everyday. You simply have to make the best decision given that data. McLane and Co. didn't. So they get what they get.

New Orleans is, three years on, a mess in many areas and not totally back to normal. Scars of Andrew remained years on. It wouldn't really surprise me that much at this point if the Stros have played their last home game of the year (barring a playoff appearance). I think it certain they've seen their last 15K attendance. As others have said, MM Park may be fine and dandy but the city is devastated and McLane is throwing a tantrum that no one is thinking of him. Well, they're wondering how many of their neighbors are dead and in what county their roof is in. They have bigger fish to fry, many of which have taken up residence in their living rooms.

Re:47
I agree that they shouldn't have moved the games days in advance. But, at that point, they should have been drawing up contingency plans, as should any city along the coasts when storms are out there. And the contigency plan shouldn't have been everyone else has to make as many concessions as we demand or try to be 100% fair to the Astros (which would mean being somewhat unfair to many others.) They made their choices, made their gamble and they lost. Now they should pay up without ######## and moaning. Go play the games in Milwaukee and win them if they can. Life is hard and this is a very, very small bump in the road. (They might also have won a few games before July).

bunyon, thanks for showing such compassion and rationality in your post. I'm sorry that the cubbies ended up having to face such severe adversity and discomfort at flying 30 minutes to Milwaukee to play in front of a home crowd.

And by the way, Houston is not New Orleans, both in terms of sea level and coastal location. I'm not minimizing the damage, but to think that the city will be crippled for a similar length of time is incorrect. Certainly, Galveston may be somewhat more analogous to New Orleans.

And by the way, Houston is not New Orleans, both in terms of sea level and coastal location.

True. And I hope the implication is as you say. Certainly it shouldn't be down for as long, but such widespread destruction has a way of lasting a lot longer than we'd like to think. Storms that have come ashore in the Carolinas have left serious destruction on the ground for months over 100 miles inland. We're used to our creature comforts and having them not disappear for very long at a stretch. When a storm of that size (and it wasn't really so bad, after all) comes through our customary timelines tend to go off kilter. Anyway, I hope the folks in the area get through it better and faster than I fear.

As to the Cubs in Milwaukee (you don't really think they'll fly do you?), of course it's an advantage. But it isn't a huge one and the Astros will still retain last bat. Homefield in general isn't a huge factor in baseball. It certainly adds to the Astros task but it isn't the same as, say, having Oswalt miss a start. The Astros playing the Cubs in Milwaukee is certainly not as much disadvantage to the Astros as making the Cubs play three after the regular season ends would be to the Cubs. (I'm not a Cubs fan, BTW).

Should they be playing in Tampa? Probably. Is it a really big deal? No.

Incidentally, will revenues be split the same as if it was played in Houston? Or will Milwaukee get a cut?

I believe Milwaukee basically gets enough to cover costs of stadium operation.

Incidentally, will revenues be split the same as if it was played in Houston? Or will Milwaukee get a cut?

I haven't seen anything which says one way or the other. McLane says he expects to lose money ($3 million, if I recall), but could make up for it somewhat if the game is played on Sept. 29. McLane also made a reference to Selig doing a good job cutting a deal or something. Perhaps that means that an agreement was reached on revenues.

When MLB told the Cubs announced that they didn't have an idea as to where to play the now-postponed games, much less when, the Cubs decided to schedule a team workout here on Saturday and wouldn't be ready to travel until Sunday. How on earth could these teams have played a doubleheader in Tampa or anywhere else on Sunday if the Cubs weren't even going to leave Chicago until then? If they had worked this out on FRIDAY, or even early Saturday morning, then, yeah, the club could have scrambled to make travel and hotel reservations to get to Tampa on Saturday night to be ready for 2 the next day. But MLB didn't announce this until like, what, at least 6PM tonight? No MLB team is going to fly into a city and play a few hours later.

1. This is something that should have been decided Thursday or Friday, for the reasons you mention earlier.

2. Having said that, there certainly isn't anything outrageous about teams traveling Saturday to play on Sunday. Yes, at worst it may mean that they have to play a day game after traveling the night before. Guess what? The Cubs do that frequently.


From what I hear, they're the ones who vetoed the idea of playing the whole series in one of several open neutral sites this weekend. They took a gamble that they were going to be playing the games at home this weekend; a losing one, in my opinion, based on everything I listed above. And now they have to deal with whatever half-assed plan MLB can throw together on short notice.

I don't blame them for holding out against hope. What I'm saying is that MLB can and should have "thrown together" a better plan.

So, assume that after the regular season ends, the Cubs have clinched the division by more than 3 games, but the Astros and Brewers are withing 1.5 games. Now, instead of resting and setting their rotation for the playoffs, the Cubs have to play 1-3 more games in 2 days. And of course to preserve the integrity of the game, they are required to start Z, Dempster, and Harden, and then get to start the DS with Lilly and Marquis and a depleted bull pen. All because the Astros owner clung to the less than 1% chance of playing a game or 2 in Houston this weekend. Screw 'em.

Putting this weekend aside, next week the Cubs are home for three games against the Brewers then three more against the Cardinals. What do you think will happen if the final games of those series are rained out?

Yes, it puts a kink into the Cubs plans. So does the current plans. Still, the idea that they would start Harden, Zambrano, and Dempster in the make-up games "to preserve the integrity of the game" is a straw-man. As McCoy notes in Post #43 of course the Cubs wouldn't do that, unless it is necessary for their playoff chances.

Also, as I said before, there's a real chance the games won't be needed at all or, alternatiely, that only one or two games would be needed.


IOW, screw over the Brewers and reward the Astros for their owner's idiotic decision. No, if the Cubs did that there would be widespread outrage and the league would almost certainly get involved.

See McCoy's Post #46. Of course, the Cubs finish the regular season in Milwaukee -- if they clinch soon, they may very well be playing those scrubs against the Brewers too.

Should they be playing in Tampa? Probably. Is it a really big deal? No.

Not to the Cubs. To the Astros, yeah.

don't blame them for holding out against hope. What I'm saying is that MLB can and should have "thrown together" a better plan.

They tried, Dayton kept saying no to the better plans until all that was left was this one.

What all these comments are ignoring is the realationship between McLane and Selig. Basically McLane plays Lewinsky to Selig's Clinton. This cost the Astros draft picks in 2007 and is why Cecil Cooper is their manager. The notion that McLane would buck Selig in any way doesn't jibe with the general nature of their realationship. What's really going on here is that Selig is trying to help the Brewers fend off the Astros by giving the Cubs a de facto home series.

Why is Selig trying to help the Brewers? Sentimental reasons? Nor does your worldview jibe with what is known in this matter.


Does anyone here really believe that because 20,000 cheering Cubs fans in Milwaukee is going to be that much different then 15,000 cheering Cubs fans in Houston?


Are people honestly saying that because the Cubs will play in Milwaukee they will somehow gets some sort of real advantage in this game? Why? Because they will have some fans there?

The Marlins play in a graveyard and yet they still have a winning record at home. Home field advantage means much more then just cheering fans.

Brookfield Zoo will be closed Sunday due to the flooding on nearby roads, a spokeswoman said. She said all animals have been moved safely indoors.

Two at a time?

McLane is Selig's puppet.

The Astros are getting royally screwed here. They just went through a hurricane, now they have to go to Milwaukee for two games and then turn around and go to Miami while Cubs get to play less than 100 miles away and then go back home. They could have played these games in Cali.

For Ryan the #### Dempster - go to ####### hell you ####### ####### and take these ####### commenters with you. What the #### are you doing talking about adversity?

I just went through Ike and y'all's comments just disgust me. I got off light, but a lot of people here didn't and right now I think you all are sub-human scum.

They tried, Dayton kept saying no to the better plans until all that was left was this one.

Is this really true, though? Why couldn't they have played in Tampa today or tonight?


Are people honestly saying that because the Cubs will play in Milwaukee they will somehow gets some sort of real advantage in this game? Why? Because they will have some fans there?

Yes. Also, they will only be 90 miles from home, while Houston will have to travel 1,200 miles.

The impact on the Houston area was not known with much certainty 48 hours in advance of the hurricane

The hell it wasn't.

and even up to the last few hours a change in location of 30 - 50 miles (which happens often) would make a significant difference in the impact.

A change in 30-50 miles at that late stage was extremely unlikely, and wouldn't have made much of a difference anyway. This was a huge storm, which flooded Plaquemines Parish LA over 200 miles away.

If the Astros acted in the manner some of you imply, then the Astros (and teams in Florida too) would be canceling games every other week in August/September whenever there is a material probability that a hurricane could hit the area.

I would absolutely expect them to make alternate plans when a powerful hurricane is expected with near 100% certainty, yes. And the games have potential playoff implications. If Washington is in a similar situation next weekend against the Padres, you cancel the series and move on.

Yes. Also, they will only be 90 miles from home, while Houston will have to travel 1,200 miles.

Are the Astros walking to Milwaukee?


Is this really true, though? Why couldn't they have played in Tampa today or tonight?


Because Drayton is an ass-clown who refused to come to an agreement until the choice was made for him.

Does anyone here really believe that because 20,000 cheering Cubs fans in Milwaukee is going to be that much different then 15,000 cheering Cubs fans in Houston?

Are people honestly saying that because the Cubs will play in Milwaukee they will somehow gets some sort of real advantage in this game? Why? Because they will have some fans there?

Every time the Cubs play in Milwaukee the Brewers themselves complain about half the crowd being pro-Cubs. Same with the Reds in Cincinnati. It does seem to generally bother some teams that the Cubs get such hearty support as the visiting team. As a Cub fan, I'm happy to see these games played in Milwaukee rather than Houston right now.

Brookfield Zoo will be closed Sunday due to the flooding on nearby roads, a spokeswoman said. She said all animals have been moved safely indoors.

Two at a time?

LOL. You win the thread.

Every time the Cubs play in Milwaukee the Brewers themselves complain about half the crowd being pro-Cubs. Same with the Reds in Cincinnati. It does seem to generally bother some teams that the Cubs get such hearty support as the visiting team. As a Cub fan, I'm happy to see these games played in Milwaukee rather than Houston right now.

So what? Are you saying the Brewers play worse at home because the home fans are cheering for the Cubs? Yet somehow they don't mind it when they go to Chicago?

Are you honestly telling me that the Cubs are going to get any real kind of advantage simply because there will be 20,000 fans in Milwaukee cheering them? What are they, a bunch of little leaguers?

A change in 30-50 miles at that late stage was extremely unlikely, and wouldn't have made much of a difference anyway. This was a huge storm, which flooded Plaquemines Parish LA over 200 miles away.

Actually it can make a huge difference in terms of damage. It would have been much worse had the storm landed 30-50 west. This storm defied most models and estimates.

Are the Astros walking to Milwaukee?

What's your point? If it's that the Cubs will have the same inconvenience as the Astros, then you're being pretty naive. And, yes, having 20,000 fans cheering them will give them an advantage.

On second thought, you're right. Seeing that it doesn't matter, I suppose the Cubs ought to play all 162 games next year on the road. That way, they can give everyone a better chance to see them.


Because Drayton is an ass-clown who refused to come to an agreement until the choice was made for him.

That doesn't answer the fact that a different choice could have (and I would say should have) been made.

What's your point? If it's that the Cubs will have the same inconvenience as the Astros, then you're being pretty naive.

My point is that sometime ago they invented this thing called an airplane, then some years later they invented this thing called a jet plane. Saying 1200 miles is absolutely meaningless with these new fangled contraption. Hell, the Cubs taking a bus to Milwaukee is probably more uncomfortable and inconvenient then taking a plane from Houston. The Astros have something like a 3 hour flight after having 2 days off. If you think a 3 hour flight is going to sap their strength then you are pretty naive. As for flying to Florida afterwards they were going to have to do that anyway.

That doesn't answer the fact that a different choice could have (and I would say should have) been made.

Yes it does. Drayton said no to everything else until there was only one choice. If you want to blame somebody blame the ass-clown

Ok NcCoy -then play the damn games on the West Coast. What a dick you are.

McLane has never stood up to Selig. The notion that he suddenly did so now is based on no evidence.

And McLane may be an ass-clown, but McCoy is a sick individual with no redeeming values whatsoever.

Actually it can make a huge difference in terms of damage. It would have been much worse had the storm landed 30-50 west.

Yeah, that's kind of what I meant. By "It wouldn't have made a difference", I meant in terms of being able to play there this weekend.

This storm defied most models and estimates.

yes, the damage is worse than should have been expected from a Cat II storm. That means it will take several weeks instead of merely 1 to get the city up and running. Either way, by Thursday it should have been obvious to everyone that playing a baseball game in Houston on Monday was out of the question.

and right now I think you all are sub-human scum.

Why? Because I said on Thursday that there would be no chance at all of playing in Houston right after the storm passed? Because I said that even if it stops raining and the stadium is intact, the city would have more important things to do than provide security and traffic control for a baseball game. The ones you should have contempt for are the ones who claimed it was reasonable to expect to play three games in 2 days starting today after the rain stopped, and thus make no contingency plans.

Acually there was less damage than expected.

And McLane may be an ass-clown, but McCoy is a sick individual with no redeeming values whatsoever.

And anonymous poster X who makes such useless statement has what kind of value?

The bottom line is that the Houston area just got pounded by a hurricane and now MLB, run by the "former" owner of the Brewers is adding insult to injury by screwing the Astros. All the sick and twisted justifications offered by sick individuals do not change that.

Well, McCoy, he has value in that I've seen the error of my ways. I'll no longer take any posts by you seriously.

Ok NcCoy -then play the damn games on the West Coast. What a dick you are.

Why would the Astros agree to play the game on the west coast? That makes less sense then playing it in Milwaukee.


You are being a belligerent fool and a stupid one at that. Playing the game on the west coast instead of Milwaukee is an incredibly stupid idea. Why would the Astros want that? You honestly believe that whatever advantage you think the Cubs will get by playing in Milwaukee is so great that Houston would rather travel all the way out to LA to play the series and then tavel all the way to Florida to play those games?

And McLane may be an ass-clown, but McCoy is a sick individual with no redeeming values whatsoever.

That's been pretty well established previously. But in this case, he's also right.

Acually there was less damage than expected.

All the windows in the JP Morgan building get blown out by a Cat II storm and that's less than expected? Seems that you guys need some tighter building codes.

Saying 1200 miles is absolutely meaningless with these new fangled contraption.

Yeah, I guess you're right. That's why no one ever complains about travel in MLB and why the West Coast trips are a breeze.

Playing on the West Coast would make it less of a Cubs home game to the Cubs by forcing both teams to travel. It only mkaes less sense if you're rooting for the poor Cubs or Brewers.

Yeah, I guess you're right. That's why no one ever complains about travel in MLB and why the West Coast trips are a breeze.



Is this a west coast trip? How often do Houston players or Milwaukee players complain about the Houston to Milwaukee flight?

And anonymous poster X who makes such useless statement has what kind of value?

There's value in being a target for ridicule.

Playing on the West Coast would make it less of a Cubs home game to the Cubs by forcing both teams to travel. It only mkaes less sense if you're rooting for the poor Cubs or Brewers


less of a Cubs game by how much, and what kind of competitive impact would that be? Then how much of an impact would it be to the Astros to then have to travel to Florida for the next series?

The bottom line is that the Houston area just got pounded by a hurricane and now MLB, run by the "former" owner of the Brewers is adding insult to injury by screwing the Astros.

Yes, screwing them out of a chance to qualify for the playoffs by playing games on October 2 and 3 against a Cubs team that has already clinched the playoffs and will be putting Micah Hoffpauir in the cleanup spot. I think that would be more unfair, in the Astros' favor, than anything about the current situation is against the Astros.

I am disturbed by how Milwaukee is apparently the default neutral site for baseball games. I think they should play these games in Omaha or Indianapolis or Chattanooga.

So what? Are you saying the Brewers play worse at home because the home fans are cheering for the Cubs? Yet somehow they don't mind it when they go to Chicago?

Are you honestly telling me that the Cubs are going to get any real kind of advantage simply because there will be 20,000 fans in Milwaukee cheering them? What are they, a bunch of little leaguers?

Friday:

"Milwaukee's kind of a home game for [the Cubs], isn't it?" Houston's Mark Loretta said.

Saturday:

Milwaukee was initially ruled out, partly because of an event scheduled on the field over the weekend, and partly because the series could effectively amount to extra home games for the Cubs, who play 90 miles down Interstate 94 at Wrigley Field.

The Brewers, Reds, and now Astros players and managers have all mentioned that playing before a pro-Cubs crowd in places other than Chicago is a distraction and a detriment. There must be something to it.

Astros manager Cecil Cooper was without power at his home in Katy, Texas, on Saturday and without many options.

"I'm definitely not happy with it," Cooper said. "It's bigger than me, I guess. You want to play in your home ballpark. It's a bit of a disadvantage. They've got the fans there that can drive up [from Chicago]. But what else can you do?"

There must be something to it.

Why?

So if the Houston Astros win the series is this view crap?

Again, how much does playing in front of 20,000 Cubs fans in a foriegn park help the Cubs? The Cubs have one of the strongest following on the road yet that hasn't helped the Cubs for years.

Are we talking about a 1% bonus? A 2%? A .5% bonus? How big of a disadvantage is it?

I can't believe the Astros are only 2.5 out of the wild card. Wasn't that long ago we were all ripping on Ed Wade for being delusional for not selling off players and bringing in reinforcements like Randy Wolf.

Again, how much does playing in front of 20,000 Cubs fans in a foriegn park help the Cubs? The Cubs have one of the strongest following on the road yet that hasn't helped the Cubs for years.

Are we talking about a 1% bonus? A 2%? A .5% bonus? How big of a disadvantage is it?

Why are you asking me? Ask the teams that are saying it. You tell me: if it didn't matter at all and it didn't give the Cubs any advantage, or the opponents any disadvantage, then why would these players and managers bring it up at all?

Perhaps this would have been a good chance to play a game in Mexico City. Or Paris. Or Sydney. Beijing probably still has their field in place. Perhaps a game in Beijing, then Paris, then Sydney. Why should the entire series be played in one place?

Why are you asking me? Ask the teams that are saying it. You tell me: if it didn't matter at all and it didn't give the Cubs any advantage, or the opponents any disadvantage, then why would these players and managers bring it up at all?

Because human beings ##### and moan about everything, real or imagined.

Whatever advantage playing this game in Milwaukee brings the Cubs it is miniscule and it is probably negated by allowing the Astros to bat last.

In otherwords it is a bunch of people bitc hing about the color of laundry in the crowd.

I am really learning some things in this thread.

yes, the damage is worse than should have been expected from a Cat II storm

Not worse than what was predicted from this particular Cat 2. The particulars of Ike were well advertised by the NWS and every news outlet in existence.

Again, how much does playing in front of 20,000 Cubs fans in a foriegn park help the Cubs?

I think it's reasonable to think it will be an advantage. My guess is that in Milwaukee it will be packed with Cubs fans, perhaps far more than 20K. The Cubs eliminate a travel day by making the series there.

The thing is, in just about every ballpark around the country it would fill up with Cubs fans. I'll bet it would be the case in Tampa even. But Milwaukee will be particularly so. Loretta is probably right: it will look like a home game. Whether that will afford an advantage, who knows.

Only the lower deck is going to be available.

How much of an advantage? The Cubs still travel to the game and they lose the day off on Monday so how much of an advantage is it?

the Astros' wanting to play those games at home became analogous to my wanting a pony.

Drayton left a pony country to live in a non-pony country.

MP has opened up some Terrace level tickets for tonights game. Not sure how much stadium staff they could round up for tonight, I'm sure that's one of the limiting factors in how many seats are available.

I can't believe the Astros are only 2.5 out of the wild card.

Make that 2, and the Phillies have a chance to tie it this evening.

The thing is, in just about every ballpark around the country it would fill up with Cubs fans. I'll bet it would be the case in Tampa even.

This is true about Tampa. I went to one of the Cubs/Rays games this year, and there was a 1:1 fan ratio. I wish they had made the games up as a doubleheader today at the Trop. I absolutely would have driven across the state for that.

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