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Friday, July 04, 2008

MLB.com: Damon hurt as ball sits on top of wall

With two outs, Kevin Youkilis stepped to the plate for Boston and smacked a fly ball deep to left field. Johnny Damon took chase and crashed against the wall to make the grab. The ball could temporarily be seen in his glove before it popped out.

But then it seemed to disappear, and all eyes—including those of Damon—searched the outfield before a white object was spotted sitting on top of the left-field wall.

“I think it was bizarre in that it stayed on the wall,” said Mike Lowell, who delivered the game-winning three-run homer for Boston in the fifth inning. “I don’t think I’ve ever seen that.”

In a strange series of events, the ball rocked back and forth while Damon fell backward onto the warning track. As he sat up, the left fielder whipped his head around to locate the ball as it dropped back onto the field with Youkilis legging out a two-run triple to tie the game.
...
Instead of making a catch that would have ended the frame for the Red Sox, Damon was forced to leave the game with what was later diagnosed as a contusion and sprain of the AC joint of his left shoulder.

NTNgod Posted: July 04, 2008 at 11:39 PM | 34 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. Justin T contains indigenous nudity Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:13 AM (#2843842)

That was a very cool play, and I consider myself privileged to have seen it live. Not in person live, but good enough. I don't think there's much chance it'll happen again in my lifetime.

2. Phil Coorey, You Won't Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:18 AM (#2843856)

Still flips me out when I see it - the Jeter double at the end is also a joke - terrible call IMHO

3. Tom Nawrocki Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:19 AM (#2843858)

It's too bad the ball didn't just stay on top of the wall. Damon would have never found it.

4. Rich Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:19 AM (#2843860)

Despite the fact that he has never been on the DL (perhaps until now), the guy gets hurt a lot.

5. OCD SS Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:26 AM (#2843875)

It's too bad the ball didn't just stay on top of the wall. Damon would have never found it.

Do we have any scouting reports on how Damon did at finding easter eggs as a kid?

If you watch the replay, you can see someone behind the wall (through the little window out onto the field) gesturing wildly to where the ball fell. I thought that guy was going to have an aneursym.

6. Rich Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:29 AM (#2843886)

Do we have any scouting reports on how Damon did at finding easter eggs as a kid?

What makes you think he celebrated Easter?

7. Phil Coorey, You Won't Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:36 AM (#2843911)

I saw that as well ocd - always cool when you can help the pros out

8. OCD SS Posted: July 05, 2008 at 12:42 AM (#2843929)

What makes you think he celebrated Easter?

Well, if he didn't get into the game at an early age his chances of finding that ball on top of the wall would've been significantly reduced. You can't deny that working on these skills at an early age doesn't help.

9. T.J. Posted: July 05, 2008 at 01:08 AM (#2843976)

Here's the video.

How awesome is it that one of the cameras was right there to get a shot of the ball hanging on the wall?

10. Justin T contains indigenous nudity Posted: July 05, 2008 at 01:12 AM (#2843979)

The other great part was Kay then asking what would the ruling would be if a ball was sitting on top of the wall and fan pushed on the wall to make it fall back onto the field of play. Leiter said it must be laid out in the ground rules. I kind of doubt it.

11. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: July 05, 2008 at 01:15 AM (#2843985)

Jeter would have caught that. Time to move him to the OF.

12. Chip Posted: July 05, 2008 at 01:17 AM (#2843989)

Despite the fact that he has never been on the DL (perhaps until now), the guy gets hurt a lot.

Which is how he ends up having a big long stretch of suck at some point in the second half nearly every year.

13. Rich Posted: July 05, 2008 at 01:55 AM (#2844043)

Which is how he ends up having a big long stretch of suck at some point in the second half nearly every year.

That's part of the reason why I took the position on another thread that the Sox were smart not to re-sign him.

14. villageidiom Posted: July 05, 2008 at 01:58 AM (#2844048)

The other great part was Kay then asking what would the ruling would be if a ball was sitting on top of the wall and fan pushed on the wall to make it fall back onto the field of play. Leiter said it must be laid out in the ground rules. I kind of doubt it.

The Yankee Stadium ground rules are rather thin. I'd think it would still be fan interference per the MLB rules, though it's unlikely an umpire would've seen the wall-pushing well enough to make that call.

15. Phil Coorey, You Won't Posted: July 05, 2008 at 04:49 AM (#2844104)

That's part of the reason why I took the position on another thread that the Sox were smart not to re-sign him.

Agree - his second half in 2005 was horrible - especially in the field. I miss him about as much as I miss my last bout of diarrhea.

16. RMc's grumbling has gone far enough Posted: July 05, 2008 at 09:30 AM (#2844146)

One thing I've never been able to figure out: outfielder reaches over low fence to catch ball, and he falls into the stands. Out or home run?

17. Hal Chase Headley Lamarr Hoyt Wilhelm (ACE1242) Posted: July 05, 2008 at 10:48 AM (#2844154)

Out, which seems wrong to me, but that's the way it is.

18. Joe Bivens, Schmoo from Massachoosetts Posted: July 05, 2008 at 11:01 AM (#2844157)

One thing I've never been able to figure out: outfielder reaches over low fence to catch ball, and he falls into the stands. Out or home run?

Out. The ball has to land before it's ruled a hit.

19. Hurdle's Heroes (SuperBaes) Posted: July 05, 2008 at 03:54 PM (#2844213)

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/official_info/umpires/ground_rules.jsp

I always love antiquated ground rules and remember one about a ground rule triple from balls rolling into the crowd; one of those things that just never got updated (which is awesome, as it allows for expressions like a fielder entering the crowd "at his own peril"). It was either at Exposition Field or the Huntington Avenue Ballpark. Ran across it while researching the 1903 World Series a few years ago.

20. Greg Pope Posted: July 05, 2008 at 04:14 PM (#2844216)

Yeah, and why is a ball that hits an outfielder's glove, then goes over the wall a home run? Shouldn't it be a 4-base error? I mean, in this case if the ball goes over I'd have a hard time giving Damon an error, but I saw a ball hit a Red Sox OF (Nixon?) in the glove, then go over into the bullpen for a HR. If the exact same thing happened, but the ball hit the wall and stayed in the park, there's no way it's a double, it's easily an error on the fielder.

21. CFBF Hates Hyphens Posted: July 05, 2008 at 04:29 PM (#2844224)

Yeah, and why is a ball that hits an outfielder's glove, then goes over the wall a home run? Shouldn't it be a 4-base error?

I suspect because most of those would qualify as extraordinarily difficult catches, and you don't want to penalize the batter or the fielder for the latter's inability to hold on to the ball after performing various heroics just to get in a position to make the play.

Now, there was a play in 2004 that might well have qualified as a four base error if the scorer had enough guts. September 9, 2004, the Phillies beat the Braves, 9-4. In the fourth inning, Braves left fielder Charles Thomas hit a deep fly ball that would have landed just on the warning track or just shy of the warning track. Fortunately, Jason Michaels was patrolling center field, and he went sprinting toward the track.

When he got there, he tried to make an over the shoulder catch. Instead, he deflected the ball, which then hung in the air. No problem, as Michaels could still track it down and make the catch. He reached out, swiped at the ball once more...and knocked it over the wall for a home run.

I think you could have justified that as an error on Michaels.

22. Greg (U)K Posted: July 05, 2008 at 04:35 PM (#2844229)

Rios made a play in Fenway that very much SHOULD have been an error
But was charged as a HR against Halladay

Very disconcerting

EDIT: Rios did the same thing as Michaels, except it was a routine fly ball about 20 feet from the wall, he just batted it REALLY far

23. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 05, 2008 at 05:20 PM (#2844240)

The Canseco head ball should have been an error.

24. Obo Posted: July 05, 2008 at 05:41 PM (#2844248)

One thing I've never been able to figure out: outfielder reaches over low fence to catch ball, and he falls into the stands. Out or home run?

I vaguely recall a Blue Jays road game where George Bell caught a home run ball and fell into the stands, only to have a fan take the ball out of his glove. A newspaper report for the game stated that if he'd been able to get back onto the field with the ball and show it to an umpire then the batter would have been out, but as it was the home run stood. I don't know exactly where he was on the field when the catch was made and I was unable to find the game on retrosheet just now. I'm guessing it was Anaheim or Texas, 1988 or 1989.

25. The Ghost of Sox Fans Past

Posted: July 05, 2008 at 05:58 PM (#2844262)

Jay Buhner caught a ball at Fenway and fell into the bullpen. He climbed back over the wall onto the filed before throwing it back in. He said afterward that he had happened to ask an ump earlier in the series what happened if he caught one and fell over the wall, and the ump told him that he had to climb back onto the field of play before he threw the ball. I never heard that before, or since.

26. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: July 05, 2008 at 06:04 PM (#2844268)

One thing I've never been able to figure out: outfielder reaches over low fence to catch ball, and he falls into the stands. Out or home run?

The most famous of these plays is the 1925 World Series catch by Sam Rice, in part because of the longstanding mystery whether Rice maintained possession after flipping over the fence and out of view. He did show the ball upon his reappearance, and the umpire ruled it an out.

27. Darren

Posted: July 06, 2008 at 02:18 AM (#2845202)

Wasn't there some thing about Rice confirming on his deathbed that he had caught the ball?

28. Random Transaction Generator Posted: July 06, 2008 at 02:44 AM (#2845216)

Follow-up question:

There is one out, and an man on 2nd base. The batter hits a long fly ball and the outfield leaps into the air, catches the ball, but the momentum carries him OVER the (short) wall and into the bullpen/crowd/whatever. If we assume that the umpires rule it a catch...

Isn't the fielder now "out of play", and the runner on base automatically granted two bases (therefore scoring)?

29. Justin T contains indigenous nudity Posted: July 06, 2008 at 03:11 AM (#2845233)

In tonight's A's/White Sox game Jermaine Dye made a catch in foul territory and his momentum carried him into the stands. Ryan Sweeney was on first base and granted a move to second.

It was rule 7.04(c) or something like that which granted one base. I don't recall any mention of a difference if the fielder went over an outfield fence instead of a wall in foul territory.

30. Greg Pope Posted: July 07, 2008 at 11:31 AM (#2846988)

I suspect because most of those would qualify as extraordinarily difficult catches, and you don't want to penalize the batter or the fielder for the latter's inability to hold on to the ball after performing various heroics just to get in a position to make the play.

Yeah, but then it should be a double and a 2-base error or something like that. I mean, If the ball in the Damon play had gone over, fine, it might have cleared the wall anyway. But the ones where it clearly would not have cleared the wall except for the fielder's interaction, those should be errors.

31. Joe Bivens, Schmoo from Massachoosetts Posted: July 07, 2008 at 11:52 AM (#2846997)

The Canseco head ball should have been an error.

No, any ball that he didn't catch is what was expected from him.

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MLB.com: Damon hurt as ball sits on top of wall

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