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Monday, November 19, 2007

MLB: Detroit-area scribes put Ordonez first in AL MVP race

Even Randal got into the act!

“I saw Magglio play every day,” Jim Hawkins said. “What I saw was a player having an MVP year. I have no quarrel with anyone who voted for A-Rod. He also had an MVP year. But with the injuries the Tigers had and the effort and performance I saw from Magglio, there’s no question he had an MVP year.”

Hawkins first became a member of the BBWAA in 1970. And since that time, he’s always put particular stock into the true essence of the award—a players’ value to his club.

..."You have to ask yourself where the Yankees would have finished without A-Rod and where the Tigers would have finished without Ordonez,” Hawkins said. “A-Rod had a better supporting cast than Magglio did. I know for a fact the Tigers would not have been anywhere close and certainly not in Wild Card contention without Magglio.”

..."I just counted it up,” he said less than three hours after the voting had been announced, “and as of a few minutes ago, I had gotten 30-some e-mails. All but two or three of them said, ‘You’re an idiot.’”

Repoz Posted: November 19, 2007 at 07:24 PM | 276 comment(s)
Related News: General, Detroit, NY Yankees, Awards

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1. JJ1986 Posted: November 19, 2007 at 08:38 PM (#2620645)

Without A-Rod the Yankees would have finished out of the playoffs. Second in their division and probably 3rd in the Wild Card race. Without Magglio the Tigers would have finished out of the playoffs. Second in their division and probably 3rd in the Wild Card race. Which they also did with Magglio.

2. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 19, 2007 at 08:40 PM (#2620648)

..."You have to ask yourself where the Yankees would have finished without A-Rod and where the Tigers would have finished without Ordonez,” Hawkins said.

The Yankees would have lost more games without A-Rod than the Tigers' would have lost without Magglio. The Yankees also don't make the Wild Card.

..."I just counted it up,” he said less than three hours after the voting had been announced, “and as of a few minutes ago, I had gotten 30-some e-mails. All but two or three of them said, ‘You’re an idiot.’”

Well...

3. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2007 at 08:40 PM (#2620649)

Wait, I thought these votes were based on VORP?

4. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: November 19, 2007 at 08:42 PM (#2620652)

I get that many emails telling me I'm an idiot every day.

5. Rich Rifkin Posted: November 19, 2007 at 08:49 PM (#2620661)

All but two or three of them said, ‘You’re an idiot.’”

The other three said, 'You're a ####### idiot.'

6. El Hijo del Ron Santo (Alan Keiper) Posted: November 19, 2007 at 08:52 PM (#2620666)

“I saw Magglio play every day,” Jim Hawkins said.

Meaning you didn't see Rodriguez play every day.

7. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 19, 2007 at 08:53 PM (#2620667)

“I saw Magglio play every day,” Jim Hawkins said. “What I saw was a player having an MVP year. I have no quarrel with anyone who voted for A-Rod. He also had an MVP year.

This is a legitimate argument IMO. Especially considering how close the two were statistically (which has really been glazed over on this site because everyone sweats The Rod).

..."You have to ask yourself where the Yankees would have finished without A-Rod and where the Tigers would have finished without Ordonez,” Hawkins said. “A-Rod had a better supporting cast than Magglio did. I know for a fact the Tigers would not have been anywhere close and certainly not in Wild Card contention without Magglio.”

This is not a legitimate argument in general, IMO, and pretty stupid considering the circumstances of the two teams.

8. Templeusox has reached his genetic threshold Posted: November 19, 2007 at 08:57 PM (#2620672)

Who voted Abreu 7th?

9. Dr Love Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:04 PM (#2620685)

Who voted Abreu 7th?

Who voted Putz 4th?

10. Sam M. Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:08 PM (#2620690)

Who voted Abreu 7th?

Who voted Putz 4th?

No, he already asked you -- who voted the Putz 7th? Would you answer his question first?

11. Dr Love Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:10 PM (#2620693)

No, he already asked you -- who voted the Putz 7th? Would you answer his question first?

Isn't this the game "Questions Only?"

12. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:14 PM (#2620700)

Isn't this the game "Questions Only?"

Why would we play that?

13. Dr Love Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:15 PM (#2620701)

Why would we play that?

What else is there to do on a Monday night?

14. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:40 PM (#2620720)

How do we play?

15. Sam M. Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:46 PM (#2620725)

Didn't you bring the rulebook?

16. RB in NYC (Now with Christmas Spirit!) Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:47 PM (#2620726)

Why would I have brought it?

17. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:51 PM (#2620728)

Don't you hate pants?

18. Sam M. Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:53 PM (#2620729)

Why would I have brought it?

Didn't you see that Browns-Ravens game yesterday?

19. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:57 PM (#2620730)

Isn't this the game "Questions Only?"

Is it even legal?

20. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: November 19, 2007 at 09:59 PM (#2620731)

What's going on here?

21. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:00 PM (#2620732)

Should I have my children taken away?

22. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:00 PM (#2620733)

What price glory?

23. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:02 PM (#2620735)

Is Plaschke a fraud who poops his pants?
Oops, sorry, this is not "Rhetorical Questions Only".

24. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:03 PM (#2620737)

"I just counted it up,” he said less than three hours after the voting had been announced, “and as of a few minutes ago, I had gotten 30-some e-mails. All but two or three of them said, ‘You’re an idiot.’”

Is he the biggest idiot ever?

25. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:04 PM (#2620738)

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

26. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:05 PM (#2620740)

What price glory?

$10.99 for the basic DVD at amazon.com - $14.99 for the Special Edition.

27. walt williams bobblehead Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:06 PM (#2620741)

Is it too late to get back to the original topic?

28. T.J. makes a mochary or the sport Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:10 PM (#2620744)

Why did vortex not ask a question?

29. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:12 PM (#2620746)

Do you prefer 'categories'? (or nine-nine bust-a-rhyme?)

30. Cowboy Popup Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:22 PM (#2620749)

Do you prefer 'categories'? (or nine-nine bust-a-rhyme?)

Does anyone really prefer bust a rhyme to categories?

31. NJ in DC loathes his classmates and the law Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:32 PM (#2620753)

Why is this thread moving so fast?

32. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:32 PM (#2620754)

would you be shocked to learn that i sometimes preferred bust-a-rhyme?

33. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:32 PM (#2620755)

Why did vortex not ask a question?

Becaue I've never heard of Questions Only?

34. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:34 PM (#2620757)

Becaue I've never heard of Questions Only?

How is that a question?

35. Eric in Madison Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:46 PM (#2620762)

I saw Nick Punto every day; why isn't he the MVP?

36. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:46 PM (#2620763)

Is vortex the Neifi Perez of Questions Only?

37. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:49 PM (#2620766)

How is that a question?

Isn't anything that ends with a question mark a question?

38. il returno de CC Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:52 PM (#2620769)

Does anyone really prefer bust a rhyme to categories?

Why you gotta be dissin' on Busta Rhymes?

39. Banta Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:53 PM (#2620771)

What the hell is wrong with you people?

40. Dr Love Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:54 PM (#2620772)

Isn't anything that ends with a question mark a question?

Does that mean "The?" is a question?

41. Eric in Madison Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:55 PM (#2620774)

Vortex,

Can't you accept that you and Albert Belle ask the worst questions ever?

42. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 19, 2007 at 10:59 PM (#2620781)

Can I go now?

43. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:03 PM (#2620788)

Who's stopping you?

44. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:04 PM (#2620790)

Is that a yes?

45. Keith Law Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:05 PM (#2620791)

How does this affect Frank Tanana?

46. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:05 PM (#2620792)

Did anyone read the (forgetting) article?

47. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:06 PM (#2620794)

Is it a trap?

48. Zuvella! Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:10 PM (#2620797)

Which one is Rosencrantz?

49. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:10 PM (#2620798)

what's up sexy, you are very cut it is bad that you are 15 the law is very strick about that kind of stuff but I may have to do an execption this time?

50. Greg Pope Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:13 PM (#2620799)

..."You have to ask yourself where the Yankees would have finished without A-Rod and where the Tigers would have finished without Ordonez,” Hawkins said. “A-Rod had a better supporting cast than Magglio did. I know for a fact the Tigers would not have been anywhere close and certainly not in Wild Card contention without Magglio.”

This has got to be the first time that I've heard the "X's team played great to come from way down to make the playoffs while Y's team barely missed the playoffs" argument used to vote for Player Y... doesn't it?

51. Tommy Etelamaki Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:14 PM (#2620801)

Tom Gage (Detroit News writer who voted for Ordonez):

Home runs and RBIs grab everybody's attention, but why isn't it equally impressive that Magglio had a .363 batting average -- the highest by a Tiger since Norm Cash in 1961?

What on earth does Norm Cash have to do with anything?

52. Dr Love Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:16 PM (#2620806)

"If there's any integrity in the vote, you can't vote for selfish reasons," he said. "That just doesn't enter into it. I expected a lot of calls. But [Ordonez had] the finest season I've ever seen a Tiger have since I've covered baseball."

Isn't that a selfish reason?

53. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:19 PM (#2620809)

What's eating Gilbert Grape?

54. Zuvella! Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:19 PM (#2620810)

Wasn't the statistical gap between A-Rod and Magglio this season smaller than the one between A-Rod and Big Papi in 2005?

55. Zuvella! Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:21 PM (#2620812)

Could you please tell me that you love me and come over to my house to watch boring self-centered rich people have dull sex for an hour?

56. too fat and ugly to play third Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:21 PM (#2620813)

Should I have this thing looked at?

57. Jose Can Jussi Jokinen (Justin T) Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:22 PM (#2620814)

How long until Arod issues a statement on his website that says he is disappointed at not being the unanimous MVP but he understands why the Detroit writers voted for Magglio, who is a great player?

58. Pops Freshenmeyer Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:23 PM (#2620816)

VLADIMIR:
Would you like a radish?
ESTRAGON:
Is that all there is?

59. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:25 PM (#2620818)

The article says Gage "has been a BBWAA member for 30 years"... so didn't he see Alan Trammell's 1987?

Does he really think Magglio just had a better year than that?

And wasn't that year deemed not even good enough to win the award?

In any event, who cares? Isn't it the Most Valuable Player of the 2007 American League, not the Most Valuable Tiger Season in the Last 30 Years?

Weren't they discussing the Thirty Years' War in the Bonds thread? Should I ask there?

60. Bob "Jugement" Dernier Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:26 PM (#2620820)

Why shouldn't I take a chance when romance passes by? Why shouldn't I know of love?

61. Hello Rusty Kuntz, Goodbye Rusty Cars Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:28 PM (#2620822)

In any event, who cares? Isn't it the Most Valuable Player of the 2007 American League, not the Most Valuable Tiger Season in the Last 30 Years?

Couldn't this be a huge problem in a league that allows Tampa Bay writers to vote?

62. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:30 PM (#2620824)

Who is Spain?
Why is Hitler?
When is right?
Where was that stooped and mealy-colored old man I used to call Poppa when the merry-go-round broke down?
How was trump at Munich?
Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?
Where are the Snowdens of yesteryear?
Où sont les Neigedens d'antan?

63. chemdoc Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:30 PM (#2620825)

Behold?

64. Zuvella! Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:33 PM (#2620830)

¿Why is this question not in Spanish?

How many people think Prince Fielder is winning the MVP tomorrow?

65. plink Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:35 PM (#2620833)

Given the "reasons" Hawkins proffers, why again are internet writers not allowed to vote on these awards?

66. John (You Can Call Me Grandma) Murphy Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:37 PM (#2620837)

Will success spoil Rock Hunter?

67. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:39 PM (#2620841)

How many more years until everyone here at BBTF stops caring about the writers' awards? One? Six?

68. Keith Law Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:40 PM (#2620844)

Who wins the thread?

69. Dr Love Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:42 PM (#2620845)

Who wins the thread?

Is Jesus the answer?

70. Alex Vila Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:44 PM (#2620848)

He didn't fall?

71. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:46 PM (#2620851)

Is Jesus the answer?

Is "who was Matty and Felipe's brother" the question?

72. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:47 PM (#2620854)

Is Jesus the answer?

Him?

73. Dr Love Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:47 PM (#2620855)

Is "who was Matty and Felipe's brother" the question?

You don't know what movie that's from?

74. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:48 PM (#2620856)

do____you____ realize: that everyone .. you know .. someday .. will die?

75. JPWF13 Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:48 PM (#2620857)

Wasn't the statistical gap between A-Rod and Magglio this season smaller than the one between A-Rod and Big Papi in 2005?

YES

2007 AROD: .314/.422/.645/177 and .333/.460/.678 with RISP; Winhares 39; warp3 13.7
2007 Magglio: .363/.434/.595/167 and .429/.498/.639 with RISP; Winshares 36; warp 3 11.2
2007 Papi: .332/.445/.621/171 and .362/.490/.658 with RISP; winshares 29; warp3 9.6

2005 AROD: .321/.421/.610/173 and .290/.410/.484 with RISP; winshares 37; warp3 12.9
2005 PApi: .300/.397/.604/158 and .352/.462/.580 with RISP; winshares 31; warp 3 9.2

FWIW Ortiz did have more WPA in 2005 than AROD, AROD had more than either man in 2007

76. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:50 PM (#2620859)

do____you____ realize: that everyone .. you know .. someday .. will die?

What are the odds that I was planning to post that very soon??

77. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:50 PM (#2620860)

You don't know what movie that's from?

Dude, Where's My Car?

78. JPWF13 Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:53 PM (#2620861)

Whose line is it anyway?

79. Jack Keefe Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:53 PM (#2620862)

Well Al did you know that they are now having a threat on Primer where every 1 must ask a question it is like Jeopardy where they give you the answer lets say He was the leader on the 2005 World Champion Chicago White Sox in Blown Holds and you think for a minute and press on your little beeper and you ask Who Was Jack Keefe Alex?

80. Nasty Nate Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:53 PM (#2620863)

What are the odds that I was planning to post that very soon??

would you have chosen a different line from that song?

81. Dr Love Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:54 PM (#2620864)

How awesome is it that Jack Keefe is in on Questions Only?

82. The District Attorney Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:57 PM (#2620866)

I was going to go with simply "Do you realize??", but vive la différence, non?

83. Eraser-X is dominating this site! Posted: November 19, 2007 at 11:57 PM (#2620867)

The question game?

84. Random Transaction Generator Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:01 AM (#2620870)

This "Questions Only" thing, is it some sort of weird American thing? Can a Canadian play, too?

85. aleskel Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:04 AM (#2620871)

did you get that thing I sent you?

/Peter Potamus

86. Eric in Madison Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:07 AM (#2620873)

Does anyone else dare Keith Law to play questions only on his next chat?

87. vortex of dissipation Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:07 AM (#2620874)

Why do we never get an answer when we're knocking at the door?

88. Nasty Nate Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:10 AM (#2620876)

Can a Canadian play, too?

are you in PEI?

89. Lord Finesse Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:11 AM (#2620877)

What is a party if it doesn't really rock?
What is a poet? All balls, no ####
What is a war if it doesn't have a general?
What's Channel Nine if it doesn't have Arsenio?
What is life if you don't have fun?
What is a what if you ain't got a gun?
What's Ali without Shaheed Muhammad?
What is a Quest if the players ain't willing?
What is a pence if you don't have a shilling?
What's a fat man without food in his gut?
What's a child birth without the umbilical?
What's United Parcels without the deliverer?
What's momma-san, without poppa-san?
What's martial arts without Daniel-San?
What's Rasheed without Tonya, Tamika?
What's orange juice and Doug E. Doug without Shaniqua?
What's Duke Ellington without that swing?
What's Alex Haley if he doesn't have roots?
What's a weekend if you ain't knockin boots?
What's a black nation without black unity?
What is a child who doesn't know puberty?
What is my label when I exit boom status?
What's menage-a-trois, or, that is
What is sex when you have three people?
What are laws if they ain't fair and equal?
What's Clark Kent without a telephone booth?
What is a liquor if it ain't 80 proof?
What are the youth if they ain't rebellin?
What's Ralph Kramden if he ain't yellin at Ed Norton
What is coke snortin?
What is position if there is no contortin?
What is hip-hop if it doesn't have violence?
What is a glock if you don't have a clip?
What's a lollipop without the Good Ship?
What's S&M;if you don't have chains?
What's a con artist if he doesn't have brains?
What's America without greed and glamour?
What's an MC if he doesn't have stamina?
What's music fractured without Mr. Walt?
What's Trugoy without a phrase contort?
What's Chris Lighty if he wasn't such a baby?
What is a woman if she didn't say maybe?
What would be my penal cord if it wasn't brown?
What is a paper without a president?
What is a compound without an element?
What is a jam if you don't spike the punch?
What's a brewski if you don't buy brunch?

90. Urban Faber Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:16 AM (#2620883)

What is the land-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

91. Klevinski "Ballfan" Melendez Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:18 AM (#2620884)

What is the cup size of Mrs. Lima's breasts?

92. Biff, Red Sox Jinx Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:19 AM (#2620886)

2007 AROD: .314/.422/.645/177 and .333/.460/.678 with RISP; Winhares 39; warp3 13.7
2007 Magglio: .363/.434/.595/167 and .429/.498/.639 with RISP; Winshares 36; warp 3 11.2
2007 Papi: .332/.445/.621/171 and .362/.490/.658 with RISP; winshares 29; warp3 9.6

Damn, those are some impressive RISP numbers, for all three of them.

93. The Yankee Clapper Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:19 AM (#2620887)

Weren't they discussing the Thirty Years' War in the Bonds thread? Should I ask there?

Where do people get the time to read a 1200+ post thread? Doesn't it become unduly repetitious? Is there a Cliff Notes version available?

94. aleskel Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:21 AM (#2620890)

What is the land-speed velocity of an unladen swallow?

African or European?

95. Klevinski "Ballfan" Melendez Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:22 AM (#2620891)

In mother Russia, Mrs. Lima's breasts cup you?

96. Boots Day Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:32 AM (#2620896)

Home runs and RBIs grab everybody's attention, but why isn't it equally impressive that Magglio had a .363 batting average -- the highest by a Tiger since Norm Cash in 1961?

Isn't .363 actually higher than .361, which is Norm Cash's batting average in 1961? Isn't Magglio's BA in reality the highest by a Tiger since Charlie Gehringer hit .371 in 1937?

97. The District Attorney Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:38 AM (#2620898)

"Does a Bonds thread become unduly repetitive?" Do you even need to ask???

98. Boots Day Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:40 AM (#2620903)

2007 AROD: .314/.422/.645/177 and .333/.460/.678 with RISP; Winhares 39; warp3 13.7
2007 Magglio: .363/.434/.595/167 and .429/.498/.639 with RISP; Winshares 36; warp 3 11.2
2007 Papi: .332/.445/.621/171 and .362/.490/.658 with RISP; winshares 29; warp3 9.6

Who are three people that have never been in my kitchen?

99. flournoy Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:42 AM (#2620905)

Maybe I can break this up.

100. zoperino,if youre not into the whole brevity thing Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:43 AM (#2620908)

I'm Ron Burgundy?

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Monday, November 19, 2007

MLB: Detroit-area scribes put Ordonez first in AL MVP race

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