Verlander is too smart to declare publicly that he’s the best pitcher in baseball. But he’s probably too proud to admit that anyone else is better. Hence the need to receive the biggest contract of any pitcher in an arbitration class that also includes Hernandez and Josh Johnson of Florida.

Timmah may have something to say about this.

Hence the need to receive the biggest contract of any pitcher in an arbitration class that also includes Hernandez and Josh Johnson of Florida.

I haven't seen the seasonal breakdown in the money, but is it possible that the AAV actually favors Felix? Felix got a big signing bonus and the last three years were much higher than the first two.

There is no denying that — so far — Verlander has accomplished more than Hernandez in the major leagues.

Is this a columnist of fanboy writing this? They are each others' #2 comp on B-R.

Felix 138 starts, 905 IP, 125 ERA+, 1.271 WHIP, 810 Ks. 58-41
Verlander 132 starts, 840 IP, 116 ERA+, 1.285 WHIP, 746 Ks. 65-43

Yeah, there's no denyining it. Felix has accomplished more as a player. Verlander's team has accomplished more.

I feel like this another instance where storyline helps -- Verlander's RoY season wasn't particularly impressive from his peripherals, but he went 17-9 with a 126 ERA+, which established the storyline of "young ace". This was of course helped by the pennant, and the no hitter the next year. (However, he followed up that 2006 with a 2007 that was worthy of the young ace tag, and here we are) Felix's 2008 would fit in nicely with Verlander's '07 and '09, exception of course that he went 9-11 due to playing on a bad team. So it goes.

Tigers prove they can afford Justin Verlander's immense ego by signing him to significantly below-market contract.

Wow, I had totally forgot about his no-no.

Speaking of Verlander's supposed "immense ego", I think the video game commercial with him, Bailey, King Felix and Longoria is pretty damn funny.

When I want to compare two young pitchers, I always reach for my trusty "Most 15 Win Seasons" list...

When I want to compare two young pitchers, I always reach for my trusty "Most 15 Win Seasons" list...

I go by HBP's plus balks. Hernandez is twice as good as Verlander, but only half as good as Eddie Guardado. Everyday Eddie's not as young, but he doesn't have that many more innings on his arm.

My god, the Jon Lester deal is downright robbery compared to Felix and Verlander.

My god, the Jon Lester deal is downright robbery compared to Felix and Verlander.

It's interesting. Certainly, you're right. But I think the narrative is important here. At the time of his signing, Lester had achieved much, much less than Verlander and Hernandez do right now, and he projected to be a worse pitcher. Now, Lester's brilliant second half of 2008, it turns out, did properly point to great things in Lester's future, but the Red Sox in 2009 were betting on a scouting report and four months of excellent pitching. Verlander and Hernandez, at the time of their contracts, were multiple-time Cy Young contenders. Further, Lester's deal buys out two years of free agency, while the Verlander/Hernandez deals buy out three.

Lester's deal is a testament to the acumen of Red Sox scouting and the logic of signing your young players to extensions well before they've been to arbitration once or twice. Felix and Verlander could probably have been had for quite a bit less two years ago - Lester signed his deal as a pre-arb 3, while Felix and Verlander are arb 2s.

Obviously not taking anything away from Verlander, great young pitcher, one that you hope is healthy and around for a long time, but the whole "accomplished more" thing is a bit goofy. What happens if the Royals try to make that pitch to Zack Greinke?
"Zack, we WANT to give you $16 million a year, we really do, but you haven't started any World Series games."
*Blinks* "Well whose fault is that?"
"Hey, Zack, whoa, we're not trying to place blame here, just facts. No World Series starts, and you only finished 4th in the Rookie of the Year standings back in '04."
And at that point you get arbitration and draft picks when he signs elsewhere.

And speaking of accomplishments, both Verlander and Greinke led the league in losses, something Hernandez has yet to do.

So, the Tigers have paid Verlander $80 million to satisfy his ego?

That story line seems too simplistic to me.

And speaking of accomplishments, both Verlander and Greinke led the league in losses, something Hernandez has yet to do.

And that's why Heyman will never vote Verlander and Greinke for the Hall of Fame...

So, the Tigers have paid Verlander $80 million to satisfy his ego?

I'd look at it this way. I never thought King Felix would sign for less than nine figures, but the Mariners got him for a lot less. The Tigers then seized the opportunity to sign Verlander to a contract which was slightly bigger than Hernandez's, and as such somewhat less favorable to the club, but which nonetheless represented an excellent investment by Detroit. Verlander's ego may have helped a bit there, in that the Tigers could sell the contract as being just slightly bigger than Hernandez's.

He has a very big, very forceful, very well-placed ego.

...

Verlander is too smart to declare publicly that he’s the best pitcher in baseball.

Translation: I claim Verlander has a big ego but of course I have no actual evidence to present in support of this claim.

Only slightly related, but I love the story about Verlander and his high school buddy. Verlander wanted a chocolate milk, but didn't have the 50 cents for it, so he told his buddy that he'd give him 1% of his signing bonus if his buddy gave him the 50 cents for the milk. In the end, his friend turned 50 cents into some $30K.

Only slightly related, but I love the story about Verlander and his high school buddy. Verlander wanted a chocolate milk, but didn't have the 50 cents for it, so he told his buddy that he'd give him 1% of his signing bonus if his buddy gave him the 50 cents for the milk. In the end, his friend turned 50 cents into some $30K.

Remind me not to let Verlander handle my funds.

MCoA is completely correct in #13. That is all.

"Verlander is too smart to declare publicly that he’s the best pitcher in baseball. But he’s probably too proud to admit that anyone else is better."

In order, these are Chone's top 25 projected pitchers in baseball for 2010 based on RAR:

Zack Greinke 60
Tim Lincecum 58
Roy Halladay 57
C.C. Sabathia 56
Felix Hernandez 50
Justin Verlander 49
Javier Vazquez 48
Danny Haren 48
Jon Lester 47
Cliff Lee 43
Josh Beckett 41
Matt Cain 39
James Shields 39
Ubaldo Jimenez 38
**Mark Buehrle 38
Cole Hamels 38
John Lackey 37
Scott Baker 36
Chad Billingsley 36
**John Danks 35
Jered Weaver 35
**Jake Peavy 35
**Gavin Floyd* 35

------------

*Good trade by Kenny Williams: Floyd & Gio Gonzalez (later traded with Ryan Sweeney to Oakland for Nick Swisher) for Freddy Garcia (who did NOTHING for Philly). Williams (obviously) should have had more more patience with Swisher, but Floyd has worked out nicely.

**By RAR, the White Sox should have the best rotation in baseball. A few teams are stronger at the top of the rotation (SFG, BOS, SEA & PHI), but no one is so strong 1-4.

Justin Verlander’s immense ego

I guess it's appropriate then that Verlander is from Goochland.

"these are Chone's top 25 projected pitchers in baseball for 2010 based on RAR:"

Oops. Those are the top 23. My bad.

"Some teams are stronger at the top of the rotation (SFG, BOS, SEA, NYY & PHI), but no one is so strong 1-4."

Add the Yankees to that list with Sabbathia and Javier Vazquez.

One more note on the projected RAR of the White Sox pitchers: I just noticed that while they have four pitchers projected in the top 23, there are 16 orgnanizations with no pitchers on that list. However, had I copied the data correctly, Adam Wainwright (STL) would be on there. He has the same projected RAR (35) as Danks, Peavy, Floyd and Weaver. But Wainright is the only pitcher from an NL Central club. Chone projects Chris Carpenter to have a RAR of 28. Seems like maybe he should be higher.

Only slightly related, but I love the story about Verlander and his high school buddy. Verlander wanted a chocolate milk, but didn't have the 50 cents for it, so he told his buddy that he'd give him 1% of his signing bonus if his buddy gave him the 50 cents for the milk. In the end, his friend turned 50 cents into some $30K.

This is way too cool to be true.

Chone projects Chris Carpenter to have a RAR of 28. Seems like maybe he should be higher.

CHONE's only projecting Carpenter to throw 116 innings.

*Good trade by Kenny Williams: Floyd & Gio Gonzalez (later traded with Ryan Sweeney to Oakland for Nick Swisher) for Freddy Garcia (who did NOTHING for Philly).

That's more a "Good piece of deception by Kenny Williams", since Garcia was injured at the time of the trade and of course was injured throughout his year with Philly.

#23 -- Mike Sirotka revisited?

And yes, he was right to ask for more money than Felix.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned that the Tigers would clearly prefer the contract Verlander signed to the one Felix got from the Mariners. Their well documented payroll issues are confined to 2010, and limiting their 2010 obligations to Verlander was a clear priority in locking him up long-term. Including signing bonus, Felix will earn $10M this year while the Tigers only owe Verlander $7.25M. In exchange for giving up a bit this year, Verlander signed for a higher total value / AAV. The net present value of the two contracts is virtually identical, and the idea that Verlander got a bigger and better contract than Felix is misleading though probably good PR for both Verlander and the Tigers.

Boring Verlander story:

I was at a Giants game, and there was a cadre of drunk businessmen a row or two in front of where I was sitting. By luck, the standings, and it being an interleague game, I had managed to scalp a couple of amazing seats, so there I was, maybe 10-13 rows back from the visitor's dugout. These suits were hammered. Verlander was up in view and watching the game (he wasn't pitching), and one of the business guy was on his feet, screaming "Verlander! Verlander! I see you! I know you can hear me!" And so on and so on. This continued for quite some while. Eventually, Verlander turned around to give the man an incredulous look; big mistake. "You! You! You, Verlander! You're horrible! I hate you, Verlander!" I wish I could express the hatred in that stranger's voice, listening to him shout at Verlander. It's simply not possible in this forum. But it was something to hear.

What, did that guy spend 1 of his 3 keeper picks for the 2008 season on Verlander in an AL-only fantasy league like I did?

...He has the Rookie of the Year award. There is no denying that — so far — Verlander has accomplished more than Hernandez in the major leagues.

I hate it when awards, something that is given to a player and largely out of their control, are considered accomplishments. Especially when it comes from those who dispense these awards (though I have no idea if the person I quoted is a dispenser).

That's more a "Good piece of deception by Kenny Williams", since Garcia was injured at the time of the trade and of course was injured throughout his year with Philly.

That's more a "good piece of examination" by the Phillies' medical staff, considering his velocity concerns were readily apparent.

If the change for a chocolate milk becoming $30K story is true, Verlander is clearly baseball's Esau. How long until Hernandez is at Jim Leyland's bedside wearing a Verlander jersey, looking to usurp the birthright?

From SI.com:

On his deal with friend Daniel Hicks in 10th grade
I wanted a chocolate milk that cost 50 cents, and I didn't have the money. So I said, "How about I give you. 1 percent of my pro signing bonus if you give me 50 cents now?" He found a napkin, wrote it up, and I signed it. I forgot about it, but after I signed, he comes over and whips out this old napkin. I'm like, Oh my God! My bonus was three-point-something million. Was a chocolate milk worth $3,000? I want to say yes. I was parched.

Interestingly, Googling "Verlander chocolate milk" gives the gem that I just posted, and this thread is result #2. Hi, Googler!

"these are Chone's top 25 projected pitchers in baseball for 2010 based on RAR:"

Wow, they're awfully high on James Shields, for some reason. Shields and Matt Cain have the same expected RAR, despite the fact that Cain's career ERA+ is higher than Shields has ever had in a single season.