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Monday, November 24, 2008

Murray Chass On Baseball: Glavine’s Choice: Add to 305 or Start His Hall Clock Ticking

Mr. Chass has so many connections in MLB he should work for a newspaper or something. Maybe even start a blog at some point.

Mussina Starts His Hall Clock

If Tom Glavine retires before next season and appears on the Hall of Fame ballot with Greg Maddux five years from now, Mike Mussina would have no chance of being elected on his first try, if he has a chance of being elected at all.

Mussina has been a good pitcher in his 18-year career but not good enough for my taste in Hall of Fame players. I have been critical of him for not being the pitcher he should have been, and his fans have been critical of me. Fair enough.

...Asked his view of Mussina as a Hall of Fame candidate, Glavine said, “Mike has certainly had a great career, better than most people realize. When you look at his numbers, you’re probably surprised at how good they are. He had a solid, quiet, good career.”

But, Glavine added, “If you’re viewed as a guy on the bubble, not having 300 is not going to enhance your chances.”

Repoz Posted: November 24, 2008 at 09:15 AM | 8 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralHistoryHall of FameAtlantaNY Yankees

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   1. JoeHova  Posted: November 24, 2008 at 08:55 AM (#3014728)
Did Maddux definitely retire? If he did, I missed it somehow, but if he didn't, this is the 2nd article I've seen that alludes to him being retired.
   2. HGM  Posted: November 24, 2008 at 08:57 AM (#3014730)
He didn't definitely retire, but he's alluded to it, I believe. There's certainly the possibility that Glavine, Maddux, and Smoltz are all done, in which case, I think they'll all get in first ballot, as that's just too good a story for the writer's to pass up.
   3. As foretold by the prophesy (JFSE)  Posted: November 24, 2008 at 10:00 AM (#3014773)
This may be the only case where having better players appear on a ballot actually increasc your HOF odds... if you consider any of them marginal.
   4. aleskel  Posted: November 24, 2008 at 10:06 AM (#3014777)
I have been critical of him for not being the pitcher he should have been

okay, I refuse to RTFA because Chass doesn't deserve my IP address in his hit count, so maybe he explains this, but does anyone know what the f*ck he's talking about here?
   5. Barry`s_Lazy_Boy  Posted: November 24, 2008 at 11:04 AM (#3014825)
Chass doesn't explain it.
   6. RayDiPerna  Posted: November 24, 2008 at 11:18 AM (#3014843)
I was going to comment on the same thing: I don't know wtf Chass was talking about either. I would guess he means that Mussina wasn't the pitcher "he should have been" because he didn't repeatedly "win" 20 games and a Cy Young or three. But the Hall is about what the player _did_, not what he "should have been." And what he did qualifies him for the Hall.
   7. RayDiPerna  Posted: November 24, 2008 at 11:27 AM (#3014852)
By winning 20 games this past season, Mussina eliminated one of the strikes against his candidacy. But others remain. He was never been, for example, the dominant pitcher in his league in any season and never seriously contended for the Cy Young award.


The problem with this is that the standards for the HOF are not that the player was the dominant pitcher in his league. (Especially not in a league that included Clemens and Martinez.) Obviously being the dominant pitcher would greatly help, but being a dominant pitcher is plenty good enough. I presume Chass thinks, say, Juan Marichal is qualified.
   8. Zac Schmitt  Posted: November 24, 2008 at 03:27 PM (#3015047)
But the Hall is about what the player _did_, not what he "should have been." And what he did qualifies him for the Hall.


but mussina is a whole 30 games worse than his hypothetical 300 game winning self. that's significantly below hypothetical self replacement level.
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