Somehow, I'm sure it's all Vince McMahon's fault.

Last week, the Mets informed him that comparable seats next year will cost him roughly $60,000. That’s it; he’s done.

How dare ticket prices rise for a new stadium.

I will say that that's a really shoddy way to treat a guy who has been a ticket holder since 1964, but at the same time, there's nothing preventing him from switching his seats to the upper deck if the close-up seats are too pricy for him. $60,000, though, that means...$187 a ticket? That's actually much less obscene than I thought it was going to be.

How dare ticket prices rise for a new stadium.

Well, when the city government has pitched in $200M, it's a little unseemly to grab insane profits off your fans.

Though a guy who had no problem dropping 30 grand on his seats this year is hardly someone whose economic hardship either I or the city of New York likely will waste much time worrying about. But in general, turning corporate welfare into price jackings seems a fair object of scorn.

What effect will the slowing economy play on the season ticket plans for $iti Field and new Yankee Stadium? I wonder if they'll struggle to get the PSLs at these price increases.

How dare ticket prices rise for a new stadium.

I'd rather the prices stay the same and we stay in Shea, no matter how nice this new stupid toy is supposed to be.

But what prevents McCarver and other national commentators who work Mets and Yankees games from adding that the cost of tickets to these new parks will price many longtime and even lifetime patrons right out of their seats and even out of the parks?

well they're supposed to be calling the game, not editorializing about the cost of tickets for one thing. Not that McCarver doesn't editorialize about a bunch of other dumb stuff, but I don't see how it's their job to bring it up.

For all the time-line graphics, where are those showing the rising cost of tickets, hikes that have made attending one ballgame a middle-class luxury item?

Tickets to baseball have always been a luxury item. Good tickets have always been a middle-class luxury item.

His four box seats cost him $5,837 in 1993, $11,836 in 1998, $23,702 last year and $33,300 this season.

If you can afford $33,300 a season for baseball tickets, then you're not middle-class.

For all the time-line graphics, where are those showing the rising cost of tickets, hikes that have made attending one ballgame a middle-class luxury item?

Tickets to baseball have always been a luxury item. Good tickets have always been a middle-class luxury item.

That's completely false. Calculating in 2008 dollars---note the year--- in 1984 the best seat in Yankee Stadium would have set you back $18.50. The best seat in Fenway Park would have been $15.42. Again, that's in 2008 dollars. The hyperinflation of ticket prices in baseball is entirely a recent phenomenon.

You can decry this trend or defend it. That's not the point. But you can't deny its existence.

i am amazed that a set of four box seats in 1993 averaged $18 per ticket.

but of course today, a one way crossing of Oresund Bridge costs 36 Euro, but that's not relevant ....

If you can afford $33,300 a season for baseball tickets, then you're not middle-class.

I'd disagree with this. Lots of people could afford $33,300 for Red Sox season tickets, and it would likely be a pretty good investment, profit-wise. Mets, I'm not so sure about, but $30k on Sox tickets would probably become $60k if you played it right and the team was in the hunt all year. The problem is that it's really hard to get the opportunity to make such an investment.

Maybe I'm just envious of the people who not only can afford season tickets, but have the time to go and see 30-40 games a year.

If Citi Field is anything like Telephone Stadium, it will be well worth the price of admission.

Lots of people could afford $33,300 for Red Sox season tickets, and it would likely be a pretty good investment, profit-wise.

Let me then rephrase it as "If you can afford $33,300 a season for baseball tickets for personal use, then you're not middle class". It's a whole different game if you're just reselling the tickets - then it's a "business".

Let me then rephrase it as "If you can afford $33,300 a season for baseball tickets for personal use, then you're not middle class". It's a whole different game if you're just reselling the tickets - then it's a "business".

Exactly. I'd consider my wife and I to be 'middle-class', and we would have no shot at getting season tickets. Someone that ####### about ticket prices when they're dropping $30k already has no reason to ##### at all.

Let me then rephrase it as "If you can afford $33,300 a season for baseball tickets for personal use, then you're not middle class".

But once again, this "Good tickets have always been a middle-class luxury item" that you were saying above is a complete myth. Up until very recently this simply wasn't the case, as shown by the prices that both Nathan and I have cited.

Up until very recently this simply wasn't the case, as shown by the prices that both Nathan and I have cited.

You're right. I somehow missed both your post and Nathan's post.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m3601/is_32_52/ai_n16120652

I certainly could be wrong, but the City is not giving the Mets or the Yankees 200 Million $$ for their stadium. They are giving them tax exempt bonds that the Mets & Yankees will have to pay back, but that is the only "money" going directly to either ownership. What they are doing is improving the infrastructure around both teams parks to help people get to and from the stadium and in the case of the Yankees they are going to build two new parks in the Bronx to replace the ones that the stadium will be taking over.

I understand your point here, but the "corporate" welfare really just doesn't make any sense as an arguement. If anything, the Mets/Yankees will be significantly helping the cities coffers as they are currently paying significantly more to maintain the current stadiums than either team is paying in Rent for deals that would last the next 20 years. With the teams responsible for their own maintenance in the new deal the city gets an extra $61m a year in tax revenue over what they get today without the costs of the maintenance for the current stadiums.

These two new stadium deals are really no brainer deals that should do quite a bit to help the Bronx and Queens respectively.

These two new stadium deals are really no brainer deals that should do quite a bit to help the Bronx and Queens respectively.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe that there has ever been any study of statistical or economic proof that a new stadium helps the community in which it is built in any way. Please note that the city GOVERNMENT getting the money (even if it did, and of that I'm unsure as it seems the taxpayers are ponying up) is not the same as Queens or The Bronx getting any help for their respective communities.

I understand your point here, but the "corporate" welfare really just doesn't make any sense as an arguement.

The "corporate welfare" case also involves the tax writeoffs that corporations may claim for those luxury boxes. Without those deductions, the prices for those seats would surely drop significantly.

And while you can perhaps make a case for the overall benefit to the city's tax rolls for these deals, don't try to deny that their cumulative effect isn't but one more example of how public policy helps to drive ticket prices inexorably upward, and out of the reach of the sort of people who were able to afford tickets far more easily not all that long ago.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe that there has ever been any study of statistical or economic proof that a new stadium helps the community in which it is built in any way. Please note that the city GOVERNMENT getting the money (even if it did, and of that I'm unsure as it seems the taxpayers are ponying up) is not the same as Queens or The Bronx getting any help for their respective communities.

That, too. They routinely trot out the same sort of "this helps the schools" line about state sponsored lotteries and other gambling schemes, all of which would make Jesse James and Al Capone turn green with envy.

Unless I'm mistaken, I don't believe that there has ever been any study of statistical or economic proof that a new stadium helps the community in which it is built in any way.

I thought the studies showed that it did help the immediate community at the expense of the community surrounding the old location - mostly through displacement of jobs - making it neutral overall.

$60,000, though, that means...$187 a ticket? That's actually much less obscene than I thought it was going to be.

Are my math skills rusty? $60,000 divided by 81 home games is $740.74 per ticket.

Are my math skills rusty? $60,000 divided by 81 home games is $740.74 per ticket.

4 tickets per game

Ah, I missed that. Thank you.

I certainly could be wrong, but the City is not giving the Mets or the Yankees 200 Million $$ for their stadium. They are giving them tax exempt bonds that the Mets & Yankees will have to pay back, but that is the only "money" going directly to either ownership.

Yes, but they are paying PILOTs (Payments in lieu of taxes), so they are not paying any property taxes.

Yes, but they are paying PILOTs (Payments in lieu of taxes), so they are not paying any property taxes.

What would be the estimated property tax for something like Yankee stadium? Not living in New York, I have no idea as to how much the property tax would be on a normal house there, and I would have no idea how to scale it up.

I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you.


Wait, I mean, I could tell you, but it would kill you.

Wait, I mean, I could tell you, but it would kill you.

Don't tell me then. I'm already weak from the strain of keeping track of multiple Bonds threads, so a number like eleventy billion dollars would probably finish me off.

I thought the studies showed that it did help the immediate community

I've seen a study linked here a ways back (can anyone find a link? I can't) where a study concluded a few things about a ballpark going up. In the general area around the park:

1) people from outside the neighborhood (re: the fans) were more likely to stick around and drop some money, but
2) people who actually live in the area were less likely to go up because of the massive crush.

Result: it's a good thing if you happen to have a business that caters to sports fans with a little bit of disposable income in their wallets -- guys looking for some beer at a bar, T-shirt at a store, etc. It's a terrible thing if you're selling something a bit more impressive. Not that this necessarily applies to the NYC sites in particular, but if there is a Bed, Bath, & Beyond, or an Office Depot, or a Car Max in the area, well, that place is in deep trouble.

The upshot is that the neighborhoods stand the best case scenario is a place like Wrigleyville. For many places that's an improvement. If they do have any large scale stores, well, it takes an awful lot of rounds of beer to make up for the sales tax generated by a highly profitable car dealership.

Mushnick is generally unbearable, in that his shtick is that he hates everything, but he is one of the rare reporters out there who on occasion covers things from a fan's perspective. Most beat writers file a story wringing their hands when the Fan Cost Index comes out each year, but it's nice to have someone regularly hold teams accountable for the generally cruddy way they treat their fans, whether that's price gouging on tickets, heinous rules on bringing your own food and drink to the ballpark, understaffed concession stands that require you to budget a full inning to buy refreshments, or what have you.

Don't tell me then. I'm already weak from the strain of keeping track of multiple Bonds threads, so a number like eleventy billion dollars would probably finish me off.

Truth be told, I don't know the numbers. I just know that they are really high. So imagine a number that's reasonably way higher than you think, and it's probably a little bit higher.

That describes the price of almost everything nowadays!