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Guys say a lot of things. I am sure Odom means it when he says he loves LA, but these decisions are not always easy to anticipate (ask Hedo) and very often, players do simply take the money.
A lot of people in LA would have said the same kinds of things about the possibility of Trevor Ariza's going to Houston. If the offers are 4/36 vs. 3/21, that is a lot of green to walk away from. I am sure the idea of coming back to LA with his old running buddy from the neighborhood in NY at the 3 appeals strongly to Odom, but I am equally sure that hurting the Lakers and getting a versatile guy to rotate with Oden and Aldridge by signing Odom appeals at least somewhat to Kevin Pritchard and Paul Allen.
I have read rumors that Pritchard prefers Shawn Marion to Odom as Portland's Plan B, due to cost and other factors, but who knows. Odom really isn't a 3; that works in LA's favor since Portland wants to upgrade the 3 and the 1.
He was quoted as saying that Houston was going to give him the chance to "improve his game" so there may be something to this. It is certainly possible that Artest, having wanted to be in Los Angeles, and with a shot at a title, will fit in, pass the ball, behave etc. while Ariza was getting a 'tude, thinking he was better than he is, as guys on championship teams sometimes do.
I wonder if NY will be without Lee and Robinson for the year? That's not leaving a lot of talent behind.
If Artest really does sign for three years, with Ariza signing for five, it wouldn't shock me if Ariza and Artest ended up being traded for each other. The dollars would match, Ariza would have the value of being younger, while Artest would have the expiring contract that Houston might be looking for.
He is a very nice pickup for the Celtics at that price though. He can help lessen the load on KG, who may not be able to carry it all by himself anymore.
Was it just the pace of the system, that creates higher number in every category?
Marion had ridiculous across the board stats ... the fact that he could lead the league in steals and also pull down as many boards as he did, and all playing at small forward, is nuts.
I generally like the Wallace signing - that's certainly an excellent (if aging) frontourt the Celtics have now. Keeps them in the hunt for next year, at the very least, assuming Garnett is ready to go.
However, I still see two problems. They still can't address teams that can go small on them (e.g. the Bulls, and Orlando starting towards the end of game 6). In 2008, they could put Posey on the other team's 4 and play Rondo/Allen/Pierce/Posey/Garnett to match up. In 2009, they ended up with Glen Davis trying to stay with Lewis or Pietrus, and we all saw how that turned out.
The other thing they still lack is someone besides Pierce to guard Lebron. The Celtics aren't beating the Cavs in a seven game series if Pierce has to guard Lebron for 36 minutes, six or seven times in two weeks, all while still being the primary scorer. I just don't see it happening, especially with all the miles on his odometer. I'd still love to see them get a defensive stopper in this mold, preferably one who can also hit an occasional three (Ariza!), but I don't know if that guy is out there on the Celtics budget right now.
I think Artest is a great fit for the Lakers - in a way, he's like the Rodman to Kobe's Jordan - though I think only if they also resign Odom. Either way, I only see the Spurs as really close to the Lakers on paper in the West next year.
I don't think Portland will go for either of these guys. McMillan would kill Odom in about 2 weeks, and Marion needs way too much coddling. The Blazers already have one guy that needs constant coddling (Aldridge), they're not going to pick up another.
I think the Blazers will shift to Hinrich or Bibby and let Batum, Rudy, Outlaw, and Webster play the 2/3 role.
He rebounded, defended, ran the floor, shot the three-pointer, jumped out of the jim, etc.
Exactly. He was never a super star, but the guy was a great second fiddle. He could defend three positions at a very high level, was a phenomenal rebounder, and knocked down threes. He was putting up 20 points with ease and never had any plays called for him. Yeah, D'Antoni's system helped, but the guy's really talented.
Pure speculation, but I think Ariza may believe he can be more than just a sidekick third/fourth option, which is what he was this year and what he would have been in Cleveland.
Probably. He's also got to maximize this because this is the best free agent deal he'll probably ever get. If someone's willing to give him the money, he's got to take it.
You haven't seen Marion play in the last year or so, have you? He looks like he's lost a lot. Maybe it was just the situation he was in, but he's not the same guy from a couple of years ago. If the money were equal, I'd take Hedo and not think twice. For twice the money, I'm ok with Marion. I'm not sure how he'll fit with Portland's slow down system. He'd have to accept a certain role, maybe the last year and a half has put him in his place.
They still can't address teams that can go small on them (e.g. the Bulls
I see this myth is still going. Who cares that the Bulls went small? The Celtics were bigger and still beat them. Doc likes to try and match up with those small lineups, and have a good backup 2/3 is a legit need, but Rasheed helps them against a team like the Bulls. He'll give the Bulls more problems than the other way around; he'll back down smaller guys guarding him and go outside against bigger guys. He'd actually be a very good match up against Rashard Lewis, who you also brought up.
---
I've seen a rumor of the Bulls trying to trade for Boozer. Specifically, I saw Jerome James's contract and insurance money plus Tyrus Thomas for Boozer. Makes a lot of sense for both teams. The Jazz get an intriguing athlete who given the right coach and system could really blossom, and they're saving money (and the insurance money can help pay off the tax bill). The Bulls get that mythical low post presence, but more importantly a guy that can run the screen roll with Rose. The Bulls have plenty of money, they could try to resign him and still have money to sign another guy a tier below the big 3 (say, Joe Johnson). I hope this happens.
When I first read this, I got really, really excited about the idea of Captain Kryptonite. When I started to think about it more, I don't know if it works. If you're going to do that, you don't have anyplace to play Farmar, since he's currently the up-tempo second unit PG. Do you play Nate as a (super) undersized 2?
I like the Wallace signing, too. On your second point: when teams go small you have two options. Either you punish them on the offensive boards until they bring in a normal matchup and play zone on defense, or you go small yourself. I guess with Orlando, Boston can't punish them enough on the boards because of Howard. Can't Pierce play an undersized 4? Then you can play Rondo/Allen/(generic guard)/Pierce/Garnett? Shouldn't they be looking to upgrade over Marbury as well?
And they didn't have Garnett. With Garnett, you add the mobile shot blocker. So the Celts get beat outside off the dribble, funnel everything to the middle and let Garnett swat.
I've seen a rumor of the Bulls trying to trade for Boozer. Specifically, I saw Jerome James's contract and insurance money plus Tyrus Thomas for Boozer. Makes a lot of sense for both teams.
If they can keep Boozer healthy, I'd do this in a minute.
And if they can't, they have $37mil in expiring deals next season. Could have more if they dumped Hinrich, which would be much less likely if they traded for Boozer, IMO.
This is a good point. I might be misremembering Marion from the Suns. Let me revise my statement to that at one point, not that long ago, Marion was a far superior player to Hedo. While Hedo is apparently better now, I'd rather take a chance on Marion getting some bounce back than spend money on Hedo, a guy who we know isn't all that great and who needs the ball in his hands.
Really? Boozer doesn't play defense at all. I thought the Bulls were waiting around for Bosh. Is that not the plan? This year is a consolidation year for Rose anyways.
Also, that deal doesn't really make sense from the Jazz's perspective.
If there's any truth in that statement, it comes only when a caveat is attached -- they can't address teams that can go small when KG is out of the line-up. A healthy KG plus a fully functioning (& engaged) Sheed makes this argument a complete non-starter.
Boozer's deal expires after this year, so the Bulls are still fine on the Bosh front. And, for Utah, the story is they're getting a little too expensive, since neither Okur nor Boozer opted out, and they might have to match a decent offer for Milsap.
I don't think so (at least not without paying more than they can afford, given they still need Big Baby, or his replacement, to a deal) -- I'd like to think a "new & improved" Starbury w/ an actual Ubuntu-flavored training camp under his belt can contribute for the 10-15 mpg he's needed.
IMO, that series never should have been close, amd it was the Bulls smallball lineup that kept them in it against the older, slower Celtics. I could be convinced otherwise; that was just what I saw.
He'd actually be a very good match up against Rashard Lewis, who you also brought up.
Great point.
Then you can play Rondo/Allen/(generic guard)/Pierce/Garnett? Shouldn't they be looking to upgrade over Marbury as well?
Defintely - but last year, Marbury was that guy - but then you have, what, Marbury guarding Turkoglu? Yeah, right.
It's too bad Tony Allen is such a mess, he'd have been a nice fit in that role if he'd panned out.
Edit: Orlando presented weird matchups last year pretty much all the time, so maybe Marbury could work in that role most of the time going forward. I didn't see it last year though.
Hey Shooty, I hear Neyer wants to see them move to Kansas City.
Ariza Hou v. LA: I feel very uncomfortable speculating as to why he chose Houston - ego, comfort, career development, whatever - it's an largely unknowable thing. That the choice he made - that's all that matters.
Wallace: I'm less sanguine about this acquistion than most. Not because of fit - his skillset is a solid match for the team's current needs (though with Powe gone and Davis likely leaving - they could use another bulky guy) - but he'll be 35 this season and was rarely as good as his rep to begin with. They could probably get and use a better player for the price.
Are you really worried about how you matchup with the Raptors?
:)
Orlando next year will be a much more traditional team. Nelson, Carter, Pietrus, Rashard Lewis, Howard. Pierce can match up with Lewis okay, Rondo on Carter, Ray Allen on Pietrus, Marbury/Marbury type on Nelson.
Even better. I think the Bulls are going to make a full run at Bosh and/or Wade. With Amare as a fallback. It may well work. It's good to see that management isn't fooled into believing the Bulls are a contender.
If Marbury is the answer, change the question.
I see the dead animals I've been sending to Neyer in the mail have not had their intended effect.
Defintely - but last year, Marbury was that guy - but then you have, what, Marbury guarding Turkoglu? Yeah, right.
It's too bad Tony Allen is such a mess, he'd have been a nice fit in that role if he'd panned out.
Assuming an actual healthy roster, they might've moved Pierce into the "generic guard" defensive spot in that situation, and paired Leon Powe w/ KG. If Boston had only lost one of Powe & KG, I'm pretty sure they would've moved past Orlando (to get trounced by Cleveland in 5).
Does he? I think he just points out that KC built a huge NBA/NHL arena, and there's no tenant for it.
Yes and yes.
Orlando next year will be a much more traditional team.
Also a good point.
I think he's just joking on the column Neyer wrote that the A's should move to Portland. The Warriors aren't going anywhere. The stadium is fine and the fanbase is better than they deserve and it's the #5 or something tv market in the country. The Kings moving BACK to KC is much more likely.
Seattle would like to remind you that these two reasons just don't matter.
As Shooty notes, I was just kidding.
Sooooooo.... anyone gonna watch the Orlando Summer League games online today? (I am not.)
Yeah. I just can't/won't believe the NBA would do it again, especially not with a market the size of the Bay. Never say never, though. Who knows what other billionaires Stern is friends with. (I ahve to say, the Seattle thing still sticks in my craw. I hardly paid attention to the NBA this last season because of it.)
That player would be...?
I would be mildly surprised if Marbury is even in the league at the start of the season.
Someone will sign him. Probably Memphis, they seem interested in lots of me-first, bad locker room types. Z-Bo, Iverson, Marbury fits that mold.
Artest and Rodman are very different, in that Rodman's on-court game was teammate-pleasing to the max--all dirty work, no shots. Rodman knew that was his role and relished it. Artest, OTOH, is a dribbler/gunner. As Pelton pointed out at BaskPro, RA has used ~23% of possessions throughout his career. Ariza in 2009 was at 16.7. Maybe playing for a ring with Kobe for Phil in LA will ameliorate that, but maybe it won't.
Wallace will help the Celtics, if for no other reason than Rivers will use him, which will keep Garnett's minutes down.
Is there any word on how Garnett's knee has been responding to treatment? Is he even expected to be ready to start the season?
Sure, don't disagree with anything you said. I only meant it in a visceral, "craziest guy in the league, tail end of his prime, playing with uber-Alpha Dog who may be the only guy who can keep him focused and give him a chance to win a title" sort of way.
The internets are eerily quiet on this front - hopefully the eerily part is just me being a pants-pisser, and the Media/Blogosphere is (rightfully) more focused on offseason movement at the moment.
Also, that deal doesn't really make sense from the Jazz's perspective.
Neither does Derrick Rose and VDN doesn't seem to stress defense right now. He would fit in fine. And as someone else pointed out, his deal is still up so the Bulls could use to not sign him if it doesn't work out.
It makes sense for the Jazz because they'll put Millsap in Boozer's place and get Millsap's replacement in Tyrus Thomas (who still has tons of potential, IMO). They're going to be over the luxury tax line, and Jerome James's contract is fully insured (and he's not stepping on the court again), so that's a $6mil cash savings on top of the $1.5mil they save in salaries on the deal.
Hmmm. I'm not sure I have an answer to that after all.
I'd rather have Marion, though this would require Toronto renouncing him, another team not choosing/able to make a big offer, his settling for the MLE - and being willing to go to Boston. I can see that chain of events possibly hapening - but that's waaaay too much to ask. Plus, Wallace is a better fit, if not a better player.
You could also go cheaper here and spend more on filling other holes, but - while there are decent cheap fours to be had (Diogu could do a nice job as Powe II, for instance) - there's not a great option on the board at other spots to spend the money on.
A lot of this depends on how you perceive Wallace's defense skills and the likelihood of his overall game collapsing [lourawlsvoice]due to age[/lourawlsvoice]. He was very good (defensively) - the evidence is mixed as to how good he is now.
**
Incidentally, how credible are the Grant Hill to Boston reports?
He met with them. Beyond that, to the best of my knowledge, it's all speculation at this point.
If I remember correctly, the (terrible) signing of Turkoglu will require them to renounce his rights, so that step is already complete.
I understand why he's perceived that way, because the brawl was a pretty bad incident, but I have a feeling that many, many other NBA players might have reacted in a similar manner if they had been in Artest's position at that game. I haven't really followed his career that closely, so maybe he has done enough other stuff to have firmly landed himself in the Tyson zone, as I believe Simmons calls it, but he doesn't really seem that unusual to me.
Probably not. One incident really adds to his rep, though.
He has a domestic abuse charge (pleaded no contest; community service) and an animal abuse charge (said it was the fault of his pet-sitter, and RA has done PETA ads, which would make him a BTF fave). So, he has those, + the brawl and asking for time off to record a rap album.
On the up side, he has seemed better the last couple of years, so maybe he is maturing. He does seem to have a passion for basketball itself, and he seems to really want to be a Laker.
What exactly does VDN stress, besides making sure that you use all of your timeouts?
I had forgotten that Boozer's deal was expiring, but wouldn't there be a ton of pressure on the Bulls to extend him? He would definitely be a good fit for a no-defense, pick and roll style of basketball. Does that get them up to the 5 seed?
What athlete doesn't have a domestic abuse charge?
What exactly does VDN stress, besides making sure that you use all of your timeouts?
Who knows.
wouldn't there be a ton of pressure on the Bulls to extend him? He would definitely be a good fit for a no-defense, pick and roll style of basketball. Does that get them up to the 5 seed?
Maybe. If he performs for 80 games there will be pressure, but if he does his normal Boozer thing and only plays in 50, no. Especially if the Bulls are trying to get Wade. It actually may get them to the 5, outside of the top 3 in the East, it's really just a crapshoot.
Yeah, I think my impression of him is mostly drawn from the last couple of years. Now he doesn't really seem that crazy, just kind of an oddball, at least to me. I find him pretty amusing on the court actually. Some of the interactions between him and Kobe in the playoffs were pretty hilarious.
A.C. Green?
(sorry, had to reach for that one)
Like mother, like son.
I agree with you, BTW, that it is far more likely that the Kings move than the Warriors do.
Edit: I sent you an email awhile back about those two poets you asked about.
Man, there is some really weird information on his wikipedia page, in the Personal Life section.
I can't believe the man ruined his time as a Show Time Laker with abstinence. I'm not saying go all Magic Johnson with the groupies, but come on!
Doug Christie (the former King from the Webber years) has some interesting stuff along those lines as well.
He's also a quote machine. He gives great sound after the games, and those quotes are frequently honest and direct, which makes him stand out from the typical athlete. He's very emotional on the court as well. I like Ron-Ron, and I think most people who follow the NBA closely do. The (mostly white) casual fan probably mostly loathes him.
It was kind of an amazing situation, if we take AC's word. Some might call it noble; others might call it tragic.
Green is married to Veronique Green. The two were wed on April 20, 2002.
Green suffered from chronic hiccups throughout his entire career, the hiccups only stopping when Green was running or working out. Reportedly, Green never slept more than two hours a night due to the condition and also having to frequently urinate. He has since recovered.
I will bet the life of robinred that A.C. got over his hiccup problem the night of April 20th, 2002.
The "He has since recovered." is the line that puts it over the top for me. A+ Wikipedia comedy writing.
Beyond that stuff, Wallace has shown much more of a commitment to team than Artest has (he quit on Indiana) - that's pretty relevant.
That was the easy part. :)
The other thing I should have added was that Boston may have wanted to know these things were likely prior to the start of / early on in free agency. Timing, of course, matters.
You never know, Shawn Kemp may have named one of his kids A.C. Green Jr.
Well, he was the only guy who was guaranteed to not miss time due to "flu like symptoms." That cracks me up every time I see it.
I met him at a Best Buy in Indianapolis. He was really nice, and really quiet. Totally different than on the court.
Part of the reason the Bulls traded way back in the day was that they felt something like the brawl was bound to happen with him. And if everything else were equal between him and say Rasheed, the brawl is a huge enough "one thing" that he without a doubt deserves that label.
Stop persecuting poor, abused Laker fans with Simmons references, dammit.
Edit: As I typed that, one of the Celts fans I work with stoppped by my desk and said "Sheed! Put up #18!" Funny.
I'm not surprised - he's supposedly a pretty decent guy most of the time.
Totally debateable. Rasheed quit on Portland and on Detroit, both at various times. He's the epitome of the "if he decides to show up" caveat.
Hey, Missoula is a cool town, if you don't mind hippies left over from the 60s. Not faux-hippies but real mellow 60 yo burnouts. My wife and I saw about 25-30 of them in the park when we were walking around after dinner a couple of years ago. It's the hippest college town I've ever seen.
I think Wallace will be OK with this issue in Boston, given the context. The question will be how much he has left in the tank physically. He would seem to be the type who would age well.
I've got nothing against Missoula. It was just a random, smallish city I pulled out of my ass. (Not literally.)
Especially if he's quit on his teams as often as folks claim he did!
I agree. I just disagreed with the post about him showing more commitment to his team than Artest. Sheed was a model citizen in Detroit that first half season, then it was up and down and not always at predictable times.
I don't think it would make a difference. Whatever team KC ends up with is going to be a mercenary team and wherever the Kings go they'll just be a mercenary team. There might not be any residual love for the Kings in KC, but if they want the NBA, I think they'd be fine with it. Also, the nickname would make sense again.
I'll grant Portland - but was he accused of doing that in Detroit?
Yes. For instance, he no-showed this entire season.
Ok, but was he accused by others of doing this? :) He looked the same to me (in terms of effort), in the little bit of Pistons action I got to watch, and his stats aren't that different.
[NOTE: I'm not doubting you, just asking...]
As a die-hard Pistons fan I have no qualms saying that Wallace, while not always consistent, was unquestionably the best player on that roster from the time he joined the team until the time he left.
Also, as an aside, while Sheed's defense may be slipping with age, his offense wouldn't slip if he played to the age of 60. The man has the least athleticism-based offense I've ever seen in my life.
Also, although it may be somewhat irrelevant - while Artest may have been more a loose cannon on the court, I think Rasheed is clearly crazier. He looks crazier too - he definitely has got the crazy eye.
Yeah. Not only are you costing points and possessions, you're looking at a few suspensions, too. You're missing whole games.
Nope. In Portland.
There's just no denying the fact that the man is a really, really good basketball player. And moreoever, he's a really, really good basketball player who can fit into essentially any offensive or defensive scheme without rocking the boat.
I hate the Celtics and was occasionally infuriated by Rasheed's antics, but I just don't see how this can be construed as a bad pick up.
It's not right now. If they get motivated Sheed, they'll be fine. If they get coasting Sheed, it's a waste of money and a potential cancer.
Well, it's a longshot, but if 'Sheed fractures the locker room into Pro-Rondo and Anti-Rondo, that might be a bad thing. Or if he shoots a ton of threes in a playoff game that the C's lose.
I like 'Sheed though, and I doubt those things happen. However, it does make the Celtics older and slower.
It's not right now. If they get motivated Sheed, they'll be fine. If they get coasting Sheed, it's a waste of money and a potential cancer.
I doubt KG allows coasting Sheed. That guy would turn a two year old into a cold blooded killer after five minutes.
KG may not allow, and it may still happen. And that's where the cancer part comes in. I know that after the Celts won the title Garnett became this mythical being able to motivate anyone, but this is Sheed. He's been in the league for years, he's won a title, and he's a head case. This guy isn't getting bullied by anyone. If him and Garnett don't get along, it's going to destroy the team.
Is it a bad sign when your team picks up the craziest guy in the NBA, and you think for a while to see if you can come up with someone who might be crazier, and you think, no, even as a fan, that guy's really the craziest guy in league? Is that bad?
Without Sheed, Detroit doesn't make it to the finals two years in a row or grab a ring in one of those two appearances. He may have shut it down towards the end, but Detroit got their money's worth while the window was open.
...while Artest may have been more a loose cannon on the court, I think Rasheed is clearly crazier. He looks crazier too - he definitely has got the crazy eye
This strikes me as exactly backwards. Some of Sheed's former coaches think he could be a great coach, for instance, which I'm pretty sure no one has ever said about Artest. Sheed has a temper, clearly, but that's not the same thing as being crazy. I love Artest, but I do think he's odd at the very least, and possibly just a little bit nuts. I don't see him coaching down the line.
He could definitely help the Cs.
LeavingRobertHorry
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