Halladay's a horse, so why not treat everyone else the same way. Gustavo Chacin hurt. Dustin McGowan hurt. Sean Marcum hurt. Jesse Litsch hurt. Watch out Ricky Romero and Brett Cecil. You too will be hurt soon enough.

It seems that Toronto brings someone up. He pitches well and probably too much. Then, blows out his arm after 1.5 seasons and never comes back. Sad. I don't follow the NL as closely, but has any team had this same track record recently?

It seems that Toronto brings someone up. He pitches well and probably too much. Then, blows out his arm after 1.5 seasons and never comes back.

McGowan's career high in innings was 195, at the age of 25. Litsch's career high was 196, at the age of 23. Marcum's career high was 168, at the age of 25. These guys were not being overpitched by any real standard.

Now, if you want to complain about training techniques possibly contributing to injuries, or about players possibly being rushed back from injury, then we can probably have a discussion.

I think it more speaks of the general folly of trying to build almost entirely around young pitching.

Sad. I hope McGowan can recover, but this is a familiar story throught baseball history. And I'm 90% sure the problem is the limits of what his arm can accomplish than any irresponsible handling by the Jays.

Right now Ervin Santana is in limbo for the Angels. They have been extremely conservative with starter pitch counts for the Scioscia years. For a team that is supposedly anti-stat analysis, they have followed limiting pitch counts like a bible. This is in spite of the old Stats vs Scouts thread (could somebody post a link?) where I think Eddie Bane said they didn't pay attention to pitch counts.

Now there's a chance Santana will miss most of 2009, come back in 2010 after rest, get hurt again, finally have surgery, and be out until late 2011. It makes you wonder if the best option is just to pitch em till they break, like the Marlins did with AJ Burnett. He went down in early 2003 but at least he was back in mid season 2004.

It makes you wonder if the best option is just to pitch em till they break, like the Marlins did with AJ Burnett. He went down in early 2003 but at least he was back in mid season 2004.

I'm drifting towards this belief myself. It appears guys are going to break no matter what. By working them hard at least you'll successfully identify the horses, while milking as many innings as possible from the guys who can't hold up.

but began struggling following a 125-pitch outing last June an evening where he ate beef for dinner rather than chicken

FTFTFA to reflect an equally likely underlying cause.

Stats vs Scouts thread (could somebody post a link?)

Just on the off-chance you were serious: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/features/050107debate.html

McGowan had Tommy John when he was in the minors. He also found out he had diabetes.