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Tuesday, June 23, 2009

NBC Sports/Pouliot: 10 most likely to be traded - Outfielders

missed this yesterday…

Matt Holliday (Athletics) - The early-month surge hasn’t held up, as the A’s have gone 3-6 since interleague play resumed. While Oakland is still just seven games back, there’s nothing to suggest the team will ever get healthy enough to make a real run. Holliday, who has been an above average regular since the end of April, even if he’s still not playing at his usual level, would have no problem bringing back more than the A’s could get if they held on to him and let him go for draft picks at season end. San Francisco makes more sense as a possible destination with every victory and every Fred Lewis strikeout.

...

Josh Willingham (Nationals) - Willingham’s incredible nine-homer, 13-RBI season to date is worthy of its own post, but while he has been a huge failure hitting with men on base this year, it’s not a career-long trend. Willingham doesn’t offer a whole lot on defense and his history of back troubles would make him a poor choice for a long-term contract, but he’s a legitimate 25-homer guy and he hits righties better than alternatives like Spilborghs and Ross. He’d be a great fit for Minnesota’s lineup.

Coot Veal and Cot Deal Posted: June 23, 2009 at 12:48 PM | 78 comment(s)
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   1. flournoy  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 12:46 PM (#3229495)
Because you know he's on there:

Jeff Francoeur (Braves) - The Braves still might have had a shot at getting a prospect for Francoeur a month ago. Now they'd be lucky just to find someone to take his salary without having to accept a similar contract back. Interestingly, he's gone from posting a 23/1 K/BB ratio in May to a 6/7 this month, but he's remained just as useless.


Also a tasty morsel from the comments:

They should just dump [Manny Ramirez] off on someone else like we did....with the caliber of players the blue has, like o-dawg, pierre, and blake for example you dont need him.


I will now stop reading the comments. That's enough.
   2. Dr Love  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 12:48 PM (#3229497)
Now they'd be lucky just to find someone to take his salary without having to accept a similar contract back.


Then what is he doing on your "most likely to be traded" list. Because he's not likely to be traded.
   3. Ryan Jones  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 12:49 PM (#3229500)
Then what is he doing on your "most likely to be traded" list. Because he's not likely to be traded.


He's still likely to be traded, since Atlanta seems to finally be fed up with him - it'll probably just be a challenge trade.
   4. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 12:52 PM (#3229506)
He's still likely to be traded, since Atlanta seems to finally be fed up with him - it'll probably just be a challenge trade.

Franceour for Delmon Young would be kind of interesting.

I did not realize Willingham was having a 9 HR 13 RBI season. That is incredible.
   5. Danny  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 12:53 PM (#3229508)
Holliday, who has been an above average regular since the end of April, even if he’s still not playing at his usual level

He's hitting .282/.401/.446 (131 OPS+) since the end of April. That's pretty close to his 140 OPS+ from last year, especially given the change in leagues.
   6. DL from MN  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 12:59 PM (#3229518)
> given the change in leagues

There is probably a pretty big adjustment in approach going from hitting in Coors to hitting in Oakland.
   7. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:02 PM (#3229521)
Screw it. Unless someone backs up a truck, I say ride this season out with Holliday and let's see what happens and take the picks.
   8. flournoy  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:11 PM (#3229540)
In lieu of a truckload, the Braves can offer some motivational posters.
   9. Rusty Priske  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:14 PM (#3229545)
Is that Willingham stat line due to horrible numbers hitting with runners on, or is it because the Nats never get people on ahead of him?
   10. Justin T  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:23 PM (#3229559)
3 for 33 w/ RISP
   11. 6 - 4 - 3  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:28 PM (#3229571)
I'm hard-pressed thinking of any combination of prospect that Sabean would consider trading that the A's would consider fair-value. Although the Giants could certainly use Holiday, unless the A's set their reserve price really, really low, I don't see it happening. And if that's the case, I'm sure that they'd prefer not to trade him to their geographic rival.
   12. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:29 PM (#3229579)
And if that's the case, I'm sure that they'd prefer not to trade him to their geographic rival.

I don't think this would hold up a trade if the Giants came correct.
   13. bibigon  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:33 PM (#3229588)
I did not realize Willingham was having a 9 HR 13 RBI season. That is incredible.


On July 9, 2000 Luis Castillo, over 312 PA, had managed to bat .369/.468/.446 with only 4 RBI.

Anyone else got some "how on earth" kinds of combos?
   14. Ryan Jones  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:40 PM (#3229597)
On July 9, 2000 Luis Castillo, over 312 PA, had managed to bat .369/.468/.446 with only 4 RBI.


He also ended the year with 626 PA and 17 RBI. Of course, in his defense, he was hitting behind both the pitchers and Alex Gonzales in his OBP season. Basically, on the rare occasion that he came to the plate with someone on base, he needed at least a double to drive them in, which is not one of his major skills.
   15. Dr Love  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:42 PM (#3229602)
Anyone else got some "how on earth" kinds of combos?


Mike Krukow started 28 games in 1987 and got only 11 decisions (5-6).
   16. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:43 PM (#3229603)
Ron Gant his 26 HR 54 RBI in 2000. Mark Bellhorn 27 HR 56 RBI in 2002. Russ Branyan hit 18 HR 36 RBI in 2006. Chris Hoiles had a bunch of seasons kinda like that.

Eric Young hit 15 home runs - surprising enough, with 34 RBI in 541 PAs in 2003.

Enzo Hernandez had 618 PAs in 1971 with 12 RBI. Twelve.
   17. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:47 PM (#3229607)
Leo Cardenas 1972 - 602 PAs, 25 runs scored
   18. ess eff  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:49 PM (#3229612)
Alfredo Griffin walked 4 times in 441 PAs in '84
   19. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:51 PM (#3229616)
Craig Robinson 1974 - 506 PAs, four doubles
   20. DK near DC  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:52 PM (#3229617)
Wayne Gross in 1985 he had 11 HR and 18 RBIs.
   21. Van Lingle Mungo Jerry  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 01:55 PM (#3229622)
Russ Branyan hit 18 HR 36 RBI in 2006.


He's got 16 and 31 right now. Is hitting (only) solo home runs a repeatable skill?
   22. Dr Love  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:00 PM (#3229627)
Enzo Hernandez had 618 PAs in 1971 with 12 RBI. Twelve.


That is a heck of a season. He had 137 total bases. For comparison Albert Pujols already has 173.

Luis Castillo had 626 PA and 17 RBI in 2000.
   23. Rich Rifkin  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:01 PM (#3229630)
I'm hard-pressed thinking of any combination of prospect that Sabean would consider trading that the A's would consider fair-value. Although the Giants could certainly use Holliday, unless the A's set their reserve price really, really low, I don't see it happening.
Holliday and Springer for Posey?
   24. Hang down your head, Tom Foley  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:10 PM (#3229649)
Bonds had 107 extra-base hits and 49 singles in 2001.
   25. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:12 PM (#3229654)
Rich, I like that you're thinking big!
   26. Joe C and the Pop Culture Portmanteau  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:13 PM (#3229655)
Brad Wilkerson went 32/67 in 2004, getting nearly 700 PA.

Rob Deer was at 32/64 in about 450 in 1992.
   27. Tropical Storm Davis aka Quilvio "Ebola" Veras  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:13 PM (#3229656)
hitter Chris Young in '07: 32 homers, 68 RBI
   28. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:14 PM (#3229659)
Joey Hamilton started 30 games, pitched 200 innings in 1995 and managed only 15 decisions.
   29. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:16 PM (#3229663)
Anthony Young's 27 straight losses is the king of inexplicable feats. Poor guy.
   30. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:16 PM (#3229664)
And 2007 Trevor Miller, 76 games, 0 decisons (!), probably deserves a mention.
   31. bpasinko  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:19 PM (#3229671)
Tony Clark hit 30 homers in 2005 and only had 47 runs.
   32. Hang down your head, Tom Foley  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:22 PM (#3229678)
Nolan Ryan led the league in ERA and ERA+ in 1987 and went 8-16. The Astros were .500 when anybody else started that year.
   33. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:24 PM (#3229683)
It's weird, but Anthony Young's BB-Ref page isn't sponsored. Has he really been forgotten? I just assumed a self-flaggelating Met fan would be all over that. That streak of his dominated the baseball news for half a season. He had a 107+ ERA during his 1-16 season.
   34. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:26 PM (#3229687)
Nolan Ryan led the league in ERA and ERA+ in 1987 and went 8-16. The Astros were .500 when anybody else started that year.
That's up there with Kevin Milwood going 9-11 with a 2.86 ERA for a team that won 93 games in 2005.
   35. Rich Rifkin  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:26 PM (#3229688)
Shooty, I figure the only problem with my trade idea is that Russ Springer is too young for Sabean to consider taking on at this point. Give him a few more years to become a seasoned veteran, then Russ will be Giant-ready.
   36. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:28 PM (#3229690)
Dave Cash 1976 - 727 PAs, 13 strikeouts
   37. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:29 PM (#3229694)
Shooty, I figure the only problem with my trade idea is that Russ Springer is too young for Sabean to consider taking on at this point. Give him a few more years to become a seasoned veteran, then Russ will be Giant-ready.

C'mon Rich, you're better than that. I would jump at that trade in a second if I'm the A's. If I'm the Giants, I send an F-You message to Billy across the bay using the stadium lights. Buster Posey is going to be a star.
   38. Pl Msrkwks  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:29 PM (#3229696)
Man, those 87 'stros were weird...

Check these records:

Mike Scott, 16-13 3.23
Nolan Ryan, 8-16 2.76
Danny Darwin, 9-10 3.56

Jim Deshaies, 11-6 4.62


Apparently, Jim Desahies just knows how to win.
   39. Hang down your head, Tom Foley  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:32 PM (#3229699)
Herb Washington was 29 for 45 in stealing bases and scored 29 runs in 1974, without ever reaching base.

I know that's cheating. What I didn't know is that the A's had designated pinch runners at least through 1977. I always thought Washington was the only one.

Among real players (say, three plate appearances per game played) Dell Alston was caught stealing ten times out of the 46 times he reached base in 1978.
   40. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:37 PM (#3229705)
Speaking of Castillo, who pops up in these kinds of things all the time, I always thought his 21 SB/19 CS performance was impressive.
   41. Hang down your head, Tom Foley  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:39 PM (#3229709)
Somewhere, Jayson Stark just found this thread and ejaculated.
   42. Zooooooook (jonathan)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:43 PM (#3229714)
Holliday and Springer for Posey?


Hell, forget Springer. They can have Wuertz and Holliday for Posey. Josh Donaldson, too, if they want a catcher back.
   43. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 02:46 PM (#3229719)
Somewhere, Jayson Stark just found this thread and ejaculated.

And immediately made note that it was the 7th consecutive Tuesday in which he had spontaneously ejaculated, eclipsing the previous record held by Charlie Steiner.
   44. Ryan Jones  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 03:05 PM (#3229750)
That's up there with Kevin Milwood going 9-11 with a 2.86 ERA for a team that won 93 games in 2005.


Almost as bad - in 1985, Dave Stieb threw 265 innings and led the league with a 2.48 ERA for a 99 win team, and finished at 14-13.
   45. Chipper Jonestown Massacre  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 03:07 PM (#3229758)
That streak of his dominated the baseball news for half a season. He had a 107+ ERA during his 1-16 season.


As they say, you have to be pretty good to lose that many games...
   46. Steve Balboni's Personal Trainer  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 03:42 PM (#3229810)
#43: I guess I just lost the bet for the last action verb I thought I would ever see in the same post as "Charlie Steiner".

(My money had been on "jazzercized"...)
   47. ess eff  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:16 PM (#3229848)
Joe Magrane led the NL in ERA one season and won only five games.
   48. Dayton Moore is a Big Fat Idiot (AG#1F)  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:21 PM (#3229855)
Joe Magrane led the NL in ERA one season and won only five games.


1988. He threw exactly 400 IP over 1988-1989 and gave up just eleven home runs although that probably speaks to how cavernous Busch Stadium was back then.
   49. Nasty Nate  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:24 PM (#3229857)
not as weird as some of these, but its amazing that in 2005 Derek Lee played in 158 games, hit .335 with 50 doubles, 3 triples, 46 homers, and 100 singles out of mainly the #3 lineup spot and only had 107 RBI.
   50. STEROIDS!!!!!  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:29 PM (#3229861)
Ah yes, the powers of Neifi Perez (and Corey Patterson)
   51. Ryan Jones  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:31 PM (#3229866)
not as weird as some of these, but its amazing that in 2005 Derek Lee played in 158 games, hit .335 with 50 doubles, 3 triples, 46 homers, and 100 singles out of mainly the #3 lineup spot and only had 107 RBI.


For an earlier version of that - Brook Jacoby (1987) 0.300 BA, 155 G, 620PA, 26 2B, 4 3B, 32 HR, 69 RBI. It looks like he spent a lot of time hitting behind Joe Carter, Mel Hall, and Cory Snyder, in some of their more outtastic seasons.
   52. Al Kaline Trio  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:31 PM (#3229867)
Forget weird stats this one gets me every time.

The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy nor Roman nor an empire.
   53. Swoboda is freedom  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:34 PM (#3229869)
Speaking of Castillo, who pops up in these kinds of things all the time

Stop reminding us of Castillo and pop ups.
   54. Ryan Jones  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:48 PM (#3229884)
Stop reminding us of Castillo and pop ups.


If you ask him nicely, I'm sure he'll drop the subject.
   55. Mefisto  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 04:49 PM (#3229887)
In 1967 Gaylord Perry went 15-17 with a 2.61 ERA (128 ERA+) for a team that finished 91-71. Pitching for the same team, Mike McCormick went 22-10 with a 2.85 ERA (117 ERA+). McCormick won the Cy Young Award.
   56. In the Disney betting pool, Roy Oswalt  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 05:01 PM (#3229892)
Led Zeppelin were neither an element nor a dirigible.
   57. STEROIDS!!!!!  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 05:04 PM (#3229895)
In 1967 Gaylord Perry went 15-17 with a 2.61 ERA (128 ERA+) for a team that finished 91-71. Pitching for the same team, Mike McCormick went 22-10 with a 2.85 ERA (117 ERA+). McCormick won the Cy Young Award.


Love it. Perry's games include a 16(!) inning shutout that he won 1-0, and an 11-inning game that he lost 2-1.
   58. Hang down your head, Tom Foley  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 05:20 PM (#3229909)
Seth Smith hit .625 in his first regular season, then he hit .500 in the NLDS, .500 in the NLCS, and .500 in the World Series. He struck out to end that World Series and hasn't been back to .500 since.

He's obviously weak-minded and more than a little tainted by steroids.
   59. virginiasteve  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 05:25 PM (#3229918)
Anthony Young's 27 straight losses is the king of inexplicable feats. Poor guy


This stat makes the Di Maggio hit streak pale in comparison. Forget Ryan's KO record or Cy Young's 511 wins....this is the unbeatable stat of our time.
   60. Roy Hobbs of WIFFLE Ball  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 05:43 PM (#3229941)
Forget Ryan's KO record


I thought Archie Moore had the KO record ...
   61. STEROIDS!!!!!  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 05:57 PM (#3229952)
As kind of the inverse of the RBI thing...

Luke Appling in 1943:

-Led the league with 155 games played
-Led the league with a .419 OBP
-Stole 27 bases.
-Scored 63 runs.
   62. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 06:22 PM (#3230009)
This stat makes the Di Maggio hit streak pale in comparison. Forget Ryan's KO record or Cy Young's 511 wins....this is the unbeatable stat of our time.

Did I misread the tone of this thread or use the word inexplicable incorrectly, or did you just want to jump in randomly and be a dick?
   63. zonk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 06:37 PM (#3230051)
The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy nor Roman nor an empire.


Come on... you have to era adjust the Carolingian Renaissance.
   64. Rich Rifkin  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 06:40 PM (#3230058)
C'mon Rich, you're better than that. I would jump at that trade in a second if I'm the A's. If I'm the Giants, I send an F-You message to Billy across the bay using the stadium lights. Buster Posey is going to be a star.
Shooty, you do know I was (mostly) kidding, right?

But.... keep in mind that Brian Sabean did make this trade: November 14, 2003 -- Joe Nathan, Boof Bonser and Francisco Liriano* to the Minnesota Twins for (one season of) A.J. Pierzynski. As you know, the problem with Posey, just like the problems with those pitchers, he is not a proven veteran.

*If Liriano had stayed healthy, that could have gone down in Bay Area lore with the Robert Parish and Kevin McHale for Joe Barry Carroll deal. As things have played out with Liarano (injuries) and Boof (poof), it's on par with the Tim Hudson for Juan Cruz, Dan Meyer and Charles Thomas trade. ... I had such high hopes for Charles Thomas. Boy, was I wrong.
   65. An Athletic in Soxland  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 06:43 PM (#3230069)
Mark McGwire 2001: 23 1b, 4 2b, 0 3b, 29 HR. His final line was .187/.316/.492.

Joe Sewell 1925-6: 129 bb, 10 so. And in 1932-3, his last two years, he had 127 and 7.

Somewhat less strange, but still fun: George Uhle 1926: Led the AL in H allowed, WP, HBP, and BB. Oh, and he was 1st in W and W%, 2nd in ERA+, and 6th in K/BB ratio.
   66. Rich Rifkin  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 06:59 PM (#3230103)
I'm not sure if this is all that unusual or even interesting to others, but Kelly Shoppach has walked only 13 times this season, but he's been hit-by-pitch 14 times. ... By contrast, Adrian Gonzalez has walked 57 times, but only once reached base on a hit-by-pitch.
   67. puck  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 06:59 PM (#3230105)
This stat makes the Di Maggio hit streak pale in comparison. Forget Ryan's KO record or Cy Young's 511 wins....this is the unbeatable stat of our time.

Did I misread the tone of this thread or use the word inexplicable incorrectly, or did you just want to jump in randomly and be a dick?


??? What was wrong with that post?
   68. Shooty Did Not Kill McGurk  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 07:44 PM (#3230211)
Shooty, you do know I was (mostly) kidding, right?

I did. I was only mock admonishing ya!

??? What was wrong with that post?

It depends on how you read it, I guess. I've had a couple so it read as sarcastic and condescending. If it wasn't, mea culpa. I screw up a lot. It's what I do.
   69. Nolan Giesbrecht  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 07:54 PM (#3230230)
Heh, that post seemed perfectly harmless to me until I read again with the thought of potential sarcasm stuck in my mind. Now I'm wavering on what the intended tone was....
   70. Frisco Cali  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 08:09 PM (#3230263)
Always assume the worst.
   71. Crispix Attacks is in the best shape of his life.  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 08:33 PM (#3230337)
Mickey Lolich spent 10 years as a full-time starter for the Tigers. In 6 of those years he got more walks than hits as a batter.

Speaking of Castillo, who pops up in these kinds of things all the time, I always thought his 21 SB/19 CS performance was impressive.


Indeed, and then it was followed by a 21 SB/4 CS season.

However, Castillo's most legendary season was the oft-cited 2000 campaign, in which he had 62 steals, 21 CS, 101 runs scored, 180 hits, 78 walks, a 111 OPS+, and 17 RBI.

Can someone please figure out if that's the most CS by anyone in a season where he had more CS than RBI? That seems virtually impossible.
   72. Rich Rifkin  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 08:43 PM (#3230360)
Three records likely to never be broken for a player with zero plate appearances: Herb Washington 33 stolen bases, 17 caught stealing, and 33 runs scored.
   73. Richard  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 08:57 PM (#3230426)
And 2007 Trevor Miller, 76 games, 0 decisons (!), probably deserves a mention.

Miller has now appeared in 202 consecutive games without being the losing pitcher, which is also a record. He hasn't lost a game since 30 July 2006. He's 6-0 with 4 saves in that period.
   74. Crispix Attacks is in the best shape of his life.  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 08:58 PM (#3230429)
And yet that's a record that any one of us could break, given enough opportunities in the right situations.
   75. Richard  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 09:35 PM (#3230500)
And yet that's a record that any one of us could break, given enough opportunities in the right situations.

You would certainly never be the losing pitcher if you only came in when your team was losing. I don't know how many times Miller has pitched with a lead or in a tie game during that span. From memory, though, his streak is something like 70 games longer than the second longest undefeated streak.
   76. akrasian  Posted: June 23, 2009 at 09:51 PM (#3230513)
You would certainly never be the losing pitcher if you only came in when your team was losing.

Only if you were always removed as soon as your team gained the lead. Otherwise you could come in while your team was losing, have your team gain the lead, and then give up a couple of runs. At the least, you would have to be removed whenever you had put the tying run on base. </nitpick>
   77. STEROIDS!!!!!  Posted: June 24, 2009 at 01:49 AM (#3230609)
Can someone please figure out if that's the most CS by anyone in a season where he had more CS than RBI? That seems virtually impossible.


It's close:

Cnt Player            CS RBI Year Age Tm
+----+-----------------+--+---+----+---+---+
    
1 Burt Shotton      32  30 1915  30 SLB 
    2 Miguel Dilone     23  14 1978  23 OAK 
    3 Luis Castillo     22  17 2000  24 FLA 
    4 Herb Washington   16   0 1974  22 OAK
   78. Crispix Attacks is in the best shape of his life.  Posted: June 24, 2009 at 05:33 PM (#3231580)
The legendary Miguel Dilone! And that was the same season he had more steals than runs scored.

135 games played
292 PA
59 H
23 BB
50 SB
23 CS
34 R
14 RBI
.229/.294/.271
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