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Tuesday, September 02, 2008

Newsday: Davidoff: Would the Yankees be in this mess if Joe Torre were still around?

I know he looks it, but he ain’t.

Conclusion? Hazy, as often happens when we crunch the numbers. I do think that Torre brought value with his mere presence, as I’ve written here before. He carried himself with a confidence that everything was going to be all right, both in the clubhouse before the game and in the dugout during it.

But…would Torre have made Alex Rodriguez and Jason Giambi hit with runners in scoring position? Would he have milked out another good month from Sidney Ponson? It’s questionable.

I guess the easy way out is to say that maybe having Torre instead of Girardi might have produced a couple of more victories. But given where the Yankees sit in the standings, a “couple” of more wins wouldn’t have made much of a difference.

Repoz Posted: September 02, 2008 at 03:03 PM | 22 comment(s) | Login to Bookmark
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1. Paul The Paranoid Android Posted: September 02, 2008 at 03:19 PM (#2925916)

Yes. Next question?

2. RB in NYC (Now with New Running Goal!) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 03:33 PM (#2925938)

I'm not one of those people who thinks Torre did nothing for the Yankees, just a push-button, etc. etc.

But come on! The Dodgers are two games under .500, and only recently came out of 8-game losing streak. Managers just can't do that much.

3. Fancy Pants Handle is the AntAgonizer Posted: September 02, 2008 at 03:36 PM (#2925942)

Yes. Next question?

Why?

4. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: September 02, 2008 at 03:40 PM (#2925951)

At casual glance, the only meaningful difference I have observed between Girardi and Torre is that Girardi manages the bullpen a little better and seems to get more out of it.

If Torre had been at the helm, maybe the Yankees would have lost more games early and really found themselves out of contention by the All-Star break. Then they would have been sellers at the trade deadline and unloaded their dead wood while beginning the rebuilding process earlier. So, yes, perhaps the Yankees would have been better off with Torre.

5. winnipegwhip Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:07 PM (#2925990)

Joe Torre never had to contend with Tampa as a contender. If the Yanks win 14 of their last 25 doesn't Girardi win as many games as the 2000 World Champion Yankees? (I might be short a win or two.) The competition is a little tougher this year than others within the division.

6. faketeams Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:17 PM (#2926001)

When was the last time Torre managed a team in a division as weak as the NL West?

7. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:20 PM (#2926006)

The last time he was in the National League West?

8. bob gaj Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:28 PM (#2926012)

see #2.

my neighbor was saying the same thing (yankees would be in the playoff run if torre was there) and i said the biggest difference isn't torre but the devil rays....because they'd only be 3? games behind the twins for the wild card if tampa was crappy as always.

then i told them of the dodgers record this year under torre...and last year under grady little was slightly better...and the halo around torre's head dropped a little.

9. bunyon Posted: September 02, 2008 at 04:52 PM (#2926046)

If the Rays were crappy as usual, the Yanks could well be ahead of Minnesota.

10. winnipegwhip Posted: September 02, 2008 at 05:27 PM (#2926087)

If the Rays were crappy as usual, the Yanks could well be ahead of Minnesota.

If the Twins win the division, they would be chasing the Chisox with 4 games against them at home. Under those cirumstances they would still be alive in the scenario of a non-contending Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

11. Cabbage Posted: September 02, 2008 at 05:49 PM (#2926118)

12. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: September 02, 2008 at 05:56 PM (#2926131)

If Torre were still in NY, I'm very sure that Edwar's arm would have fallen off by now.

13. catomi01 Posted: September 02, 2008 at 06:03 PM (#2926141)

Are you sure edwar would even have pitched more than 3 innings? if he gave up a run in april, he would have been relegated to long relief while hawkins, traber, and farnsworth handled the tough jobs.

14. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: September 02, 2008 at 06:10 PM (#2926153)

Yankees' records vs. TB the last few years:

2007: 10-8
2006: 13-5
2005: 8-11

This year: 7-5

Tampa's crappiness hasn't really been their salvation all that much in the recent past. Not much more than this year, anyway.

15. TVerik, AKA Snoopy Snoopy Poop Dog Posted: September 02, 2008 at 06:13 PM (#2926155)

As I recall, Edwar hit the ground running this year. I think he may have even been able to "earn Torre's trust".

And, as we all know, once earned, it's almost impossible to lose it again.

16. Chase Utley, Shooty's Favorite Robot (Joey Belle) Posted: September 02, 2008 at 06:32 PM (#2926190)

Tampa's crappiness hasn't really been their salvation all that much in the recent past. Not much more than this year, anyway.

It's not about what they would have done against the Yankees, but rather against everyone else. If Tampa were their usual 90 loss team, the AL East would be business as usual, hell even if Tampa won 80 games, the Yankees would still be in a much better position.

17. scareduck Posted: September 02, 2008 at 06:49 PM (#2926209)

#5 -- thus answering the question of what would happen if the Angels suddenly migrated to the AL East. Joe Maddon has a team that is very much like the Angels have been run lately, only with better talent all around.

18. Cooperstown Schtick Posted: September 02, 2008 at 06:52 PM (#2926215)

It's not about what they would have done against the Yankees, but rather against everyone else.

I don't think that's where #9 and #11 were going -- that's to what I was replying. to. them.

19. vigaro Posted: September 02, 2008 at 11:19 PM (#2926510)

A little research goes a long ways.

It took ONE (1) pitch for Torre to give Pontoon access to the liquor cabinet. Lardbutt in, DFA'd no long than it took to process the paperwork.

With Girardi, taken what 2 months? Pitches (MORE THAN 1) stayed in the park and NO bottle.

There's goes the premise for this article

20. Jolly Old St. Neck Wound, Moral Idiot

Posted: September 02, 2008 at 11:27 PM (#2926533)

If this were 1971, then yeah, having Torre might have made one helluva difference. You don't find MVP catchers every day.

21. OCF Posted: September 02, 2008 at 11:52 PM (#2926617)

He was a third baseman in 1971.

22. Walt Davis Posted: September 03, 2008 at 06:27 AM (#2927101)

He was a third baseman in 1971.

Yeah, but he hit 472/530/629 close and late that year ... can the current occupant say that?

472 -- holy crap!

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Tuesday, September 02, 2008

Newsday: Davidoff: Would the Yankees be in this mess if Joe Torre were still around?

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