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Wednesday, April 30, 2008

Newsday: Howard: Yankees’ Hughes looks too rattled to stay

It was the start of another jam, all right. But it was also the sort of moment that Hughes could’ve shown everyone something special. Instead, pitching to new Yankees catcher Chris Stewart, a Triple A call up making his first start, Hughes and Stewart seemed to get their signals crossed for the third time in the game and Hughes threw a wild pitch - not in front of the plate, or in the dirt, but, startlingly enough, off the middle of Stewart’s chest protector as a surprised Stewart couldn’t even get a glove on the ball. That allowed Polanco to skitter to third with no outs.

As Hughes waited at home for Stewart to throw the ball back to him, he clearly looked shaken. First Hughes slapped a fist into his glove. He yelled something. Then he stalked back to the mound, rocked back into his wind up and served up a fat, hanging curveball that Sheffield - a guy who’s playing with two barking shoulders and began the night hitting only .159 - smashed into the leftfield seats, stretching the Tigers’ lead back to three.

Out on the mound, Hughes sagged. When asked later if he thought Hughes’ troubles are mental, Yankees manager Joe Girardi didn’t answer directly. He just said, “You watch the player, see how he goes about his work. He’s frustrated, I’m sure. We’ll watch him closely . . . Sometimes it looks like he’s trying to do too much. Sometimes he’s rushing a little bit . . . For Phil, he’s gotta fight. You’ve gotta fight.”

I too miss Art Howe’s dull face.

Repoz Posted: April 30, 2008 at 07:36 AM | 50 comment(s)
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   1. OCD SS  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 07:06 AM (#2763951)
At least Kei Igawa won't have an innings limit...
   2. faketeams  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 07:54 AM (#2763977)
And this leads naturally to whehter Joba should be stretched out now or if the Yankees can afford the luxury of a lights out 8th inning pitcher.
   3. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates)  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 07:55 AM (#2763980)
IMO, Hughes gets one more start to prove himself (objectively, he pitched 2 nice innings in Chicago and then the rains came last week).

Thing to watch for: whether Rassner's schedule gets aligned with Phil's (as he's almost surely the first choice to come up from Scranton)
   4. BeanoCook  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 08:05 AM (#2763989)
It's not all his fault. There were puddles on the mound. Wait, no, bugs, wait, the ball was slippery. Cleveland!!!
   5. Smiling Joe Hesketh  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 08:09 AM (#2763992)
What does Hughes9.50 have to say about this?

Young pitchers struggle at times. This should not be news to the Yankees.
   6. AZ  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 08:17 AM (#2764002)
It looked like he was throwing a lot of curves, including the one he hung to Sheffield. I wonder if Hughes or Stewart was calling the game. Given the number of catchers the Yanks have had this season, Hughes probably hasn't been able to develop a rapport with one of them, which would result in better pitch-calling. That's just my wild guess, but still no excuse for having bad stuff and location.
   7. Cooperstown Schtick  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 08:17 AM (#2764003)
The Yankees are going to have to send Hughes down soon because they are running out of new catchers to throw behind the plate for him.

Edit: you beat me to the point AZ. Seriously, though, did they HAVE to use the new catcher right away with a pitcher that's having so much trouble finding his groove?
   8. SJ and the pants of freedom.  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 08:23 AM (#2764008)
There is no shame in being sent down to work some stuff out. He is 21. Let him work on some stuff in Scranton, call up Rasner.
   9. TVerik and his cavalcade of whimsy  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 10:08 AM (#2764071)
To my eye, Kennedy has actually been worse than Hughes. I'd balk at going to Plan B on Phil only because we might need that plan for Ian.
   10. 1k5v3L, Useless  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 10:11 AM (#2764075)
Send Kennedy to Cambodia.
   11. DosRafaels  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 10:12 AM (#2764077)
This just shows the folly of Yankees fan counting on 3 young pitching prospects to blossom. Phil might still be great eventually, but pitching prospects are still just prospects. I still think that they will regret not getting Santana, but at least Melky looks pretty damn good this season.
   12. aleskel  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 10:13 AM (#2764079)
I know this is putting lipstick on the pig, but two of Hughes' starts have been against Boston and Detroit, and the multiple catcher situation can't have helped either. I think he has two more starts to show something, after that, it's time for a trip down.
   13. aleskel  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 10:14 AM (#2764080)
This just shows the folly of Yankees fan counting on 3 young pitching prospects to blossom

well, one of those three already has, albeit in a smaller role. So, one month into the season, batting .333 isn't too bad.
   14. JRVJ (formerly Delta Socrates)  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 10:50 AM (#2764094)
Another point to bear in mind is whether IPK pitches well tomorrow.

If he does, the Yanks might be more willing to give Phil a chance to straighten himself out....
   15. robinred  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:00 AM (#2764108)
"I still think that they will regret not getting Santana, but at least Melky looks pretty damn good this season...pitching prospects are still just prospects."

Maybe. I said throughout the winter that in terms of a 2008 push, they should have triggered on the trade and signed Mike Cameron to a one-year deal to replace Cabrera. Santana and Wang at the top of the rotation would look awfully good right now.

But, what they did make a look a lot better in 2009 and 2010, or even later this year, and 2008 may not be their year anyway even with Santana.

I do agree with the statement about prospects. I thought these guys as 2008 assets were oversold because they're Yankees, although it's early.
   16. TVerik and his cavalcade of whimsy  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:03 AM (#2764111)
I think Kennedy is in danger of being sent down if he has one more disasterous start. I agree with alaskel that Hughes has two more.
   17. baudib  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:20 AM (#2764126)
Phil Hughes is more valuable than Santana, duh.
   18. RB in NYC (Now with Resolutions!)  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:21 AM (#2764127)
I don't know why Kennedy is so down on everyone's list, I mean, compared to Hughes. Bad as Kennedy has been, he's gone 5 innings or more in two of his last three starts and his ERA is "only" 6.59. Hughes has gone more than 5 innings once since his first start and his last four starts (counting the aborted one in Chicago) have a collective 11.77 ERA. It's not like either one of them is blowing anyone away on peripherals.

Of course, a lot of this depends how Kennedy pitches his next start. Frankly, I'd send Hughes down today.
   19. Cooperstown Schtick  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:23 AM (#2764129)
I think Kennedy is in danger of being sent down if he has one more disasterous start. I agree with alaskel that Hughes has two more.

If I were the Yankees, actually, I would put Kennedy ahead of Hughes on the patience scale. I thought the umpire squeezed him into the middle of the plate in his first disasterous start. His second outing was the infamous rain/relief appearance. His third outing was pretty good - 3 ER in 6 innings. His fourth was very bad. His fifth was okay, I thought -- 3 ER in 5 innings. He's been walking too many guys, but he's shown a much stronger ability than Hughes to maintain his composure and wriggle out of jams.

Hughes looked much more hittable last night than Kennedy has at any point. A lot of the hits Kennedy has surrendered have been dinks and dunks. Hughes was serving them up last night -- I think his performance was a perfectly suitable excuse to send him down now. He looks terrible.

On edit: or, y'know, what RB said.
   20. billyshears  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:37 AM (#2764143)
I think it would be a bad move to send Hughes down. There is an inordinate amount of pressure on the kid. He is 21 years old and is expected to be a key component in the starting rotation for the New York Yankees in a year when they expect to contend for a championship, and they made it known to everybody that they refused to trade him for Johan Santana. Can anybody think of a rookie who has been asked carry a greater burden? Maybe Kei Igawa or Darrell Rasner will be marginally better than Hughes. Maybe they won't. But I don't think it helps Hughes' confidence or his career to have the team pull the plug on him after one bad month. I think the best thing for Hughes and the Yankees would be to have Joe Girardi and Brian Cashman sit him down and say "You're our guy. We have confidence in you. You're going to have to struggle for a lot more than 5-6 starts before we send you down."
   21. salfino  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:53 AM (#2764178)
Young pitchers struggle. It's a tough league. If you're not willing to put up with growing pains, you have no business keeping young guys. Buchholz struggled this year early and now seems to be rounding into form.
   22. Dizzypaco  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:54 AM (#2764179)
"You're our guy. We have confidence in you. You're going to have to struggle for a lot more than 5-6 starts before we send you down."

This is the luxury of being a bad, non-contending team. A non-contending team can keep sending out a struggling pitcher every fifth day, without worrying that he's killing the team's chances. They know that there might be a great reward down the line, and the risk is low.

But with a team like the Yankees (or any similar team that is both somewhat old and expected to contend), they can't punt the season by sending out a guy to get clobbered once or twice a week.
   23. Dizzypaco  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 11:58 AM (#2764184)
Young pitchers struggle. It's a tough league. If you're not willing to put up with growing pains, you have no business keeping young guys.

That's easy to say now, but when one of your five starters get to pitch all year, and puts up Jose Lima-like stats, and you miss the playoffs by three games, it isn't easy to swallow, particularly knowing that Posada/Jeter/Giambi/Abreau/Rivera/Matsui/Damon/Mussina aren't getting any younger.
   24. gay guy in cut-offs riding a stegosaurus (MH#1F)  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:05 PM (#2764193)
Can anybody think of a rookie who has been asked carry a greater burden?

Bobby Sprowl? Still, point taken. The only problem I see here is Hank. Girardi and Cashman may be willing to let Hughes struggle, but at what point does Hank blow his stack and say, "We can't afford to **** away games by letting this kid work his problems out in the majors"?
   25. Cooperstown Schtick  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:21 PM (#2764221)
Can anybody think of a rookie who has been asked carry a greater burden?

Bobby Murcer?
   26. salfino  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:26 PM (#2764231)
That's easy to say now, but when one of your five starters get to pitch all year, and puts up Jose Lima-like stats, and you miss the playoffs by three games, it isn't easy to swallow,

Young players have to learn how to deal with failure. Hughes has never really struggled. He's not going to learn that in the minors. Take your lumps with him now and hope he makes up the three games in the second half once he's over that developmental hump.
   27. billyshears  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:27 PM (#2764236)
This is the luxury of being a bad, non-contending team. A non-contending team can keep sending out a struggling pitcher every fifth day, without worrying that he's killing the team's chances. They know that there might be a great reward down the line, and the risk is low.

But with a team like the Yankees (or any similar team that is both somewhat old and expected to contend), they can't punt the season by sending out a guy to get clobbered once or twice a week.


I think you have to find a balance and I think you have to consider the available alternatives. The Yankees can't let Hughes get pounded all season, but I do think you have to give him more than a month, especially considering that the alternatives to Hughes are pretty speculative bets themselves.
   28. robinred  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:40 PM (#2764253)
kevin--

How was HK?

And how about those Lakers?
   29. Mike Emeigh  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:43 PM (#2764256)
I wonder if Hughes or Stewart was calling the game.


Most likely, it was Girardi and/or Eiland.

-- MWE
   30. Fumbduck Joe Bivens  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:45 PM (#2764265)
Harvey Keitel?
   31. Fumbduck Joe Bivens  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:46 PM (#2764269)
Henry Krinkle?
   32. bibigon  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:48 PM (#2764274)
Meanwhile, Jon Lester threw 8 shutout innings yesterday.


6Ks, 4BBs isn't exactly awe inspiring. Jon Lester may still develop, but yesterday wasn't the big sign of a turnaround.
   33. Fumbduck Joe Bivens  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 12:52 PM (#2764279)
The weather was awful in Boston last night. Neither team hit well. Halladay's sinker was perfect in the cold.
   34. robinred  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 01:03 PM (#2764301)
Hong Kong in case you don't know.
   35. Charter Member of the Jesus Melendez Fanclub  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 01:06 PM (#2764307)
Hong Kong in case you don't know.

Was he there researching prostitutes?
   36. Cooperstown Schtick  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 01:08 PM (#2764311)
If either Hughes or Kennedy had an outing like Lester's last night there would be a parade thrown.

The Hughes/Kennedy vs. Lester/Buchholz argument seems to have been settled early, at least insofar as 2008 is concerned.
   37. TVerik and his cavalcade of whimsy  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 01:12 PM (#2764319)
The Hughes/Kennedy vs. Lester/Buchholz argument seems to have been settled early, at least insofar as 2008 is concerned.


I don't think I agree with this. It's April, for God's sake. Too early to call.
   38. robinred  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 01:18 PM (#2764334)
Re: the Lakers. I was more impressed at how the Nuggets rolled over than how the Lakers played. It floored me that Karl's contract was revewed after that pathetic performance. They should put a dog collar and a leash on 'Melo and Iverson. I've never seen a team more unprepared to play.


Except the Celtics in Atlanta. ;-
   39. BFFB  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 01:24 PM (#2764348)
What should also be mentioned is that even a contending team can aford to have one young pitcher learn on the job in the rotation. However two struggling young pitchers is another matter particularly when you have a 39 year old pitcher going less than six innings a start.
   40. hort  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 01:24 PM (#2764352)
On TV, it certainly looked like the pitches were being called from the dugout, at least the little of the game I saw.

I saw a note on Rotoworld that Hughes was having trouble with blurred vision during night games, could that be why he seems to cross up his catcher so much?
   41. Toolsy McClutch  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 02:19 PM (#2764452)
Didn't Hughes work with thie catcher in the minors at some point?
   42. Randy Jones  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 02:36 PM (#2764469)
Didn't Hughes work with thie catcher in the minors at some point?

This is Stewart's first year with the Yankees, so no.
   43. nycfan  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 02:46 PM (#2764484)
Meanwhile, Jon Lester threw 8 shutout innings yesterday


He also has more walks than strikeouts so far this year
   44. The Essex Snead  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 02:47 PM (#2764485)
That's easy to say now, but when one of your five starters get to pitch all year, and puts up Jose Lima-like stats, and you miss the playoffs by three games, it isn't easy to swallow, particularly knowing that Posada/Jeter/Giambi/Abreau/Rivera/Matsui/Damon/Mussina aren't getting any younger.

See, it's that sort of win-RIGHT-NOW thinking that's gotten the Yankees into the predicament they're in, if you can call winning the division 7 of the last 8 seasons an actual problem -- they're continually plugging holes to stave off the flood (of failure, of course), instead of just building a brand new foundation. In the long run, I'd think playing the kids and missing the playoffs one year (or, god forbid, winning the Wild Card 2 years in a row oh the shame) to guarantee future success (as much as that can be guaranteed) would be worth more than just making the playoffs w/ a bunch of rentals and signees and getting bounced in the first round every year.
   45. rconn23  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 03:02 PM (#2764494)
"Meanwhile, Jon Lester threw 8 shutout innings yesterday."

Hmm. Looked good yesterday against an offense that hasn't been hitting at all. He's still a middling starter IMO. I don't think any team fears him.
   46. Dizzypaco  Posted: April 30, 2008 at 03:08 PM (#2764505)
See, it's that sort of win-RIGHT-NOW thinking that's gotten the Yankees into the predicament they're in, if you can call winning the division 7 of the last 8 seasons an actual problem -- they're continually plugging holes to stave off the flood (of failure, of course), instead of just building a brand new foundation. In the long run, I'd think playing the kids and missing the playoffs one year (or, god forbid, winning the Wild Card 2 years in a row oh the shame) to guarantee future success (as much as that can be guaranteed) would be worth more than just making the playoffs w/ a bunch of rentals and signees and getting bounced in the first round every year.

A few things.

1. The win-RIGHT-NOW mentality has produced 12 straight playoff appearances.
2. This team is old, but its still got lots of offensive talent. I'm guessing this is the best chance they have of winning for the next few years, not the worst. As the offense (and Rivera and Pettite) continue to age, their chances will get worse.
3. Missing the playoffs this year by playing Hughes, etc., will not guarantee future success.
4. The playoffs are largely a crapshoot IMO (I know a lot of people here disagree, but the concept of sample size matters in the post season, just as much as it does in the regular season.
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