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Wednesday, February 20, 2008

Newsday: Jose Reyes vows to tone down act this season

No more Michalle Cutting the Pie for Jose Reyes…

In addition to the Mets’ championship dreams, a part of Jose Reyes died on that final weekend at Shea Stadium. The fun part, the dancing part. Alas, it looks like the shortstop’s celebratory handshakes, just like the one that turned the Marlins into maniacs during that doomed series, are now history.

“I’m not even thinking about that,” Reyes said yesterday. “No more handshakes. People kept saying we got teams fired up when we did those handshakes, so now I want to focus more on baseball.”

That was a stunning remark coming from Reyes, who appears to have more fun on the field than anyone in the game. And the handshakes had become a signature move, with Reyes always developing a new one during spring training. They were elaborately choreographed, practiced often and unique to the Mets.

..."When people see me in the dugout, and they see me not smiling, they’ll be saying, ‘What’s wrong with Jose?’” Reyes said. “Nothing. I’m just going to be more serious this year.”

Repoz Posted: February 20, 2008 at 06:53 AM | 80 comment(s)
  Related News: GeneralNY Mets

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   1. Leander Schaerlaeckens Posted: February 20, 2008 at 08:21 AM (#2695391)
Shame.
The handshakes were fun and entertaining. Whether they fired the opponent up or not, the fans enjoyed them. Sometimes professional athletes forget that their job is to entertain viewers. You can win all you want, without the viewers you'd be out of a job. Perhaps someone should explain that to Shaq when he says something stupid like, "television pollutes the mind." No TV = no Cribs-house for Shaq.
Although I am all for the Mets winning games, colorful players should be encouraged to remain so. That's the only way baseball will be able to keep competing with football, basketball and nascar.
   2. Justin Zeth Posted: February 20, 2008 at 09:05 AM (#2695396)
I, too, lament the death of athletes having fun playing the game. The NFL legislated it out after it deemed the 1999 Rams enjoyed themselves too much, and everything's so buttoned-down in the modern day hyperprofessional environment that it loses entertainment value. There's nothing to be done about it; it's just something we've lost forever, now that baseball players are millionaires and even mediocre ones have PR staffs at their disposal.
   3. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 20, 2008 at 09:37 AM (#2695415)
I guess I'm an old fart, I have never loved choreographed displays. From Billy "White Shoes" Johnson on, it was always showing off and taunting in my mind. There's nothing wrong with a spontaneous outburst of pleasure at having done something good but these canned displays just aren't entertainment to me. From the soccer guys running around the field ripping off their shirts, well, gals, too (and believe me, I like when women take off their shirts) to the Met's and others elaborate handshakes, sharpie-gate, hanging on the rim, these all leave me cold.
I'm sure that most mileages will vary from mine.
   4. Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 09:42 AM (#2695419)
Perhaps someone should explain that to Shaq when he says something stupid like, "television pollutes the mind."

It's not like he's wrong.

colorful players should be encouraged to remain so. That's the only way baseball will be able to keep competing with football, basketball and nascar.

You can be colorful without being a showboat. Showboating is what really gets goats.
   5. formerly dp Posted: February 20, 2008 at 09:46 AM (#2695427)
Please no Jose. I think if he didn't fail so badly at the end of the season, this wouldn't be an issue. If it means he's going to raise his game, it's fine. But there's something to the type of youthful energy he brings to the older players that reminds you how much fun he has playing the game. Delgado, who is pretty much a statue on the field, was always smiling whenever Reyes came near him. The reason the Mets lost wasn't because Jose played with too much enthusiasm, it was because he sucked balls in September because Willie rode him too hard all season...
   6. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 20, 2008 at 09:50 AM (#2695431)
I hate to bring up Jimmy Rollins to a Mets dominated thread, but Jimmy is a smiling, infectious, energetic guy without the ridiculous choreography.
   7. The Essex Snead Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:09 AM (#2695455)
What are we seriously talking about here - celebrating in the dugout, or restaging Footloose?
   8. 1k5v3L Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:13 AM (#2695459)
I hate to bring up Jimmy Rollins to a Mets dominated thread
no, you don't
   9. Repoz Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:13 AM (#2695460)
I guess I'm an old fart, I have never loved choreographed displays. From Billy "White Shoes" Johnson on, it was always showing off and taunting in my mind. There's nothing wrong with a spontaneous outburst of pleasure at having done something good but these canned displays just aren't entertainment to me. From the soccer guys running around the field ripping off their shirts, well, gals, too (and believe me, I like when women take off their shirts) to the Met's and others elaborate handshakes, sharpie-gate, hanging on the rim, these all leave me cold.

You left out the part where they tell God how many outs there are.
   10. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:14 AM (#2695462)
What are we seriously talking about here - celebrating in the dugout, or restaging Footloose?
I know I'm biased, but these celebrations have all the entertainment value of "Footloose".
   11. Matt Clement of Alexandria Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:17 AM (#2695465)
So, we're agreed? These celebrations, like Footloose, are awesome?

I want to see Jose Reyes work out a routine where he throws both fists above his head in exultation while Kenny Loggins rocks an empty barn.
   12. Leander Schaerlaeckens Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:25 AM (#2695469)
Slinger Francisco Barrios (Dr. Memory) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 08:42 AM (#2695419)

Perhaps someone should explain that to Shaq when he says something stupid like, "television pollutes the mind."

It's not like he's wrong.


He most certainly is not. He just doesn't understand that his vast wealth was bestowed upon him by television and its indirect economic consequences. He's better at shooting himself in the foot than he is at shooting free throws. Then again, with a size 23... Is that bigger than the hoop?
   13. Benji Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:33 AM (#2695471)
I hope the TV booth grinches are happy now. Especially Hernandez, that phony bastard.
   14. flournoy Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:51 AM (#2695487)
I'm an exception, not the rule, but I prefer watching players who are stoic and composed to ones who are emotional and excitable.
   15. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 20, 2008 at 11:21 AM (#2695513)
Kenny Loggins rocks
I call oxymoron. <ducks>
   16. Joe C isn't Posted: February 20, 2008 at 11:24 AM (#2695516)
I hate to bring up Jimmy Rollins to a Mets dominated thread

Yeah, Mets fans NEVER hijack threads realting to another team. ;-)
   17. Baseballing powerhouse Crispix Attacks Posted: February 20, 2008 at 11:27 AM (#2695519)
I don't remember hearing anyone complain about Reyes's antics at the time. I can't think of a single such antic, actually. The bizarre and brain-dead lashing out of sportswriters against Milledge drowned out whatever more measured complaints they might have had against Reyes.

But now he might get singled out, yes.
   18. NJ in DC loathes his classmates and the law Posted: February 20, 2008 at 11:48 AM (#2695536)
He most certainly is not. He just doesn't understand that his vast wealth was bestowed upon him by television and its indirect economic consequences. He's better at shooting himself in the foot than he is at shooting free throws. Then again, with a size 23... Is that bigger than the hoop?

Yayyyy for baseless criticisms of an athlete's intelligence!!!!
   19. rfloh Posted: February 20, 2008 at 12:01 PM (#2695543)
From the soccer guys running around the field ripping off their shirts, well, gals, too (and believe me, I like when women take off their shirts)


Soccer players ripping off their shirts is a very longstanding tradition in soccer. As for the gals, well they're soccer players too. They are just joining in the tradition.
   20. PreservedFish Posted: February 20, 2008 at 12:06 PM (#2695548)
I don't remember hearing anyone complain about Reyes's antics at the time.

It seems the other players are more upset about Reyes than the curmodgeonly media moralizers, which is unusual.
   21. Cris E Posted: February 20, 2008 at 12:07 PM (#2695550)
Hmmm: more points in favor of ARod professionalism and against Nick Punto's continued firey existance.


Actually I like a little personality in my athletes. There is a top over which one can go, but I enjoy the luxury of moving that point around at my whim: I'm a fan.
   22. Billy Wagner's tears Posted: February 20, 2008 at 01:10 PM (#2695619)
What Cris E said, TO for me is over the top. I enjoy watching a very well paid pro have a little fun out there.

Of course this is coming from a white guy who tries to do the Deion dance after every flag football TD I score and I'm 34, but I'm having fun!
   23. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: February 20, 2008 at 01:16 PM (#2695628)
This is sad.

I love Shaq's antics.
   24. Swedish Chef Posted: February 20, 2008 at 01:17 PM (#2695629)
Soccer players ripping off their shirts is a very longstanding tradition in soccer. As for the gals, well they're soccer players too. They are just joining in the tradition.


Doesn't happen that much anymore, it's a yellow card.
   25. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: February 20, 2008 at 01:20 PM (#2695634)
BTW, I thought this was a great story.

When Delgado entered the clubhouse, reliever Matt Wise reminded him of their first meeting, back on Aug.15, 2000, when Wise was a rookie with the Angels and Delgado was a Blue Jay. Angels manager Mike Scioscia told Wise to throw Delgado four straight fastballs inside. Delgado squared to bunt and Wise unintentionally drilled him in the groin - the first hit batter of Wise's career. The two didn't cross paths again until they bumped into each other two months later at a Newport Beach, Calif., restaurant, when Delgado was visiting Shawn Green. A scared Wise hopped in his car and drove off.

I definitely think Delgado is the toughest guy on the team.
   26. rfloh Posted: February 20, 2008 at 01:31 PM (#2695641)
Doesn't happen that much anymore, it's a yellow card.


Yeah. But it is a lonstanding tradition. FIFA is trying to be politically correct and responding to Muslim sensitivities.
   27. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 01:32 PM (#2695642)
That's awesome. What was Delgado doing squaring to bunt?
   28. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: February 20, 2008 at 01:43 PM (#2695651)
Apparently, the Mets are meeting with Freddy Garcia. I wouldn't mind signing Garcia especially if the Mets could get an option for 2009.
   29. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 20, 2008 at 02:02 PM (#2695672)
Apparently, the Mets are meeting with Freddy Garcia. I wouldn't mind signing Garcia especially if the Mets could get an option for 2009.
As long as he doesn't turn out like Roberto Hernandez and Endy Chavez who gave new meaning to "teh suck" while in Philly and subsequently went to the Mets and became useful+ for a year.
   30. baudib Posted: February 20, 2008 at 02:06 PM (#2695675)
I love showboating.

I love players like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson and Daryl Dawkins. How anyone can say they're bad for the game is beyond me, but I think aversion to such antics is very much a cultural and racial divide.

Except for the occasional Jeremy Shockey or Joaquin Andujar, most really demonstrative athletes tend to be African American. And people who complain about celebrations tend to be white -- I am reminded of a controversy that arose a few years back about a Harlem Little League team that was accused of showing up the other team.
   31. billyshears Posted: February 20, 2008 at 02:12 PM (#2695681)
Jose Reyes can't do crazy handshakes because Tom Glavine gave up 7 runs in 1/3 of an inning?
   32. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: February 20, 2008 at 02:13 PM (#2695684)
This sucks.
   33. DCA Posted: February 20, 2008 at 02:18 PM (#2695687)
why was Delgado bunting?
   34. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 20, 2008 at 02:29 PM (#2695692)
I love players like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson and Daryl Dawkins
It might be old age, but I don't remember Dawkins for choreography as much as his talk, like naming his dunks. Well and shattering backboards, but that wasn't planned. "Glass flyin', Robinzine cryin'" -- I'd agree that's entertaining.
   35. Robert S. Posted: February 20, 2008 at 03:26 PM (#2695762)
It all depends on context for me. I don't mind choreographed handshakes and stuff in the dugout, but I dislike guys dancing around on the field. There's a big difference between a guy pumping his fist after a big strikeout to end an inning and a guy beating his chest and screaming to the heavens after every out he records. I think a Manny Ramirez has earned the right to admire his shots while a Kevin Youkilis has not.
   36. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 20, 2008 at 03:43 PM (#2695796)
I think a Manny Ramirez has earned the right to admire his shots while a Kevin Youkilis has not.

I must be in a contentious mood today. :) I don't understand "veteran's rights" or understand why they are a good thing, anyway. I don't think that Michael Jordan should have been able to walk while some rookie couldn't, that Charles Barkley got called for an offensive foul when a rookie but not as a veteran when he would initiate the contact and bump the defender out of the way, smaller strike zones for "veterans with acknowledged strike zone judgement", all that kind of stuff.

EDIT: Why young players have to give up uniform numbers, the Manny/Youkilis example, OL holding/not holding in football. Tennis seems to have the least of that kind of stuff among the sports that I watch; now that they have electronic line sensors to handle in/out appeals, there is very little that a judge can do to influence a match.
   37. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: February 20, 2008 at 04:20 PM (#2695862)
why was Delgado bunting?

It was probably one of those fake bunts that guys use everyone once and a while against the overshift.
   38. Esoteric roots for the two worst teams in baseball Posted: February 20, 2008 at 04:33 PM (#2695887)
Thank god. Reyes' disgraceful showboating was one of the most disgusting, infuriatingly immature ones in all of baseball. I kept hoping that pitchers would start beaning him in the head to send him a message about his scumbag juvenile antics.

You play the game like a man, not like a ####### kid: serious, head-down professionalism in all but the most catharctic moments. If I wanted to watch someone jump around like a child in the middle of a game and keep flaunting choreographed in-your-face celebrations, I'd watch little league. Or professional football.

I don't WANT to see some guy displaying the phony staged "childlike joy of the game." I want a man's game. So good riddance to a rubbish act.
   39. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:06 PM (#2695927)
I kept hoping that pitchers would start beaning him in the head to send him a message about his scumbag juvenile antics.

So let me get this straight. According to you, throwing at someone's head (which may cause a severe injury or even death), is an appropriate response to a celebratory handshake.

That's a little excessive, no? It's just a game, man.
   40. Esoteric roots for the two worst teams in baseball Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:14 PM (#2695944)
It's just a game, until jerks like Reyes start ruining the game by turning it into showboating trash sports like football and basketball. I can't emphasize enough how detrimental to the working-class ethos of baseball it would be if guys with Reyes' attitude were allowed to flourish. It's one thing to celebrate if you hit a walk-off, or pitch a no-hitter, or field the last out to send your team to the postseason...but the constant, unending stream of demonstrative "we're better than you!" gangland handshakes, on-field clowning around, and general showboating behavior is inexcusable.

I don't want Reyes beaned in the head, yes, that's overreaction. But he should have been made to pay - harshly, severely - by other teams and by his own teammates for his antics. I suppose his late season collapse was karmic justice enough, and I'm pleased to see he'll adopt a more sober tone this year.
   41. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:24 PM (#2695954)
But he should have been made to pay - harshly, severely - by other teams and by his own teammates for his antics.

Motivating your teammates is antics? The guy brings energy to the team. He displays emotion when someone does something big. He shows he's happy to be there. September was the first time in his career he'd struggled for an extended period of time (other than during all the hamstring troubles and the move to 2B, but we're going to forget that ever happened) and really didn't look happy to be at the ballpark every day.

gangland handshakes

i'll say it, and i'm sure it'll start something, but that's not very thinly veiled racism. #####. There's nothing gangland about the Reyes handshake- it's more like a dance than it is a handshake, and dances are, according to my gangland friends, very much frowned upon in gangland.

I really hope your post are tongue-in-cheek, because you sound like some Victorian ####### relic. ####### douche nozzle.
   42. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:28 PM (#2695963)
but the constant, unending stream of demonstrative "we're better than you!" gangland handshakes, on-field clowning around, and general showboating behavior is inexcusable.

I think gangland makes it sound a little more sinister than it is.


I see it as guys having fun. You see it as showboating. It's just a difference in opinion.
   43. Cowboy Popup Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:34 PM (#2695971)
i'll say it, and i'm sure it'll start something, but that's not very thinly veiled racism.

Are Dominicans known for their gang involvement? I'd say it's more unfamiliarity than anything sinister like racism.
   44. Swedish Chef Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:38 PM (#2695975)
I think gangland makes it sound a little more sinister than it is.


Someone has to fill John Franco's old job:
Pitching For The Mob
   45. Esoteric roots for the two worst teams in baseball Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:39 PM (#2695976)
#41 - google boy

The "gangland" word was ill-chosen if it causes anyone to think in racial terms. Lord knows that's not my point. So spare me your "thinly-veiled-racism" crap. The point of the word was merely to suggest that, analogous to gangland handshakes, the set of super-special choreographed handshakes/dance moves is designed to be both exclusionary, intimidating, and intensely irritating to the opposite side. Unnecessary.

And yes, "motivating your teammates" is "antics" when said "antics" are seemingly designed with a public audience in mind, designed to anger and show up the other team. Reyes didn't pull this junk in private, in the clubhouse, he intentionally did it all the time in front of the opposing team, more for their consumption than his team's.

#42 - Russlan

Indeed, a difference of opinion. And god knows I'm way overheated on this thread...but man, Reyes' stunts REALLY steamed me all last year. They're the opposite of everything baseball is supposed to be about, in my opinion, and the gentle "oh, that's just Jose being Jose!" tolerance which was extended to him irked me immensely. Nobody else would be allowed to get away with those sorts of things. But yeah, that's just an opinion.
   46. Russlan is an overhyped Met BTFer Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:40 PM (#2695977)
Apparently, Garcia wasn't really meeting with Minaya to discuss a contract.

"He's close with Johan and Pedro, and he just wanted to say hello," Minaya said. "We're not interested in him."
   47. Randy Jones Posted: February 20, 2008 at 05:43 PM (#2695980)
It's just a game, until jerks like Reyes start ruining the game by turning it into showboating trash sports like football and basketball. I can't emphasize enough how detrimental to the working-class ethos of baseball it would be if guys with Reyes' attitude were allowed to flourish. It's one thing to celebrate if you hit a walk-off, or pitch a no-hitter, or field the last out to send your team to the postseason...but the constant, unending stream of demonstrative "we're better than you!" gangland handshakes, on-field clowning around, and general showboating behavior is inexcusable.

I don't want Reyes beaned in the head, yes, that's overreaction. But he should have been made to pay - harshly, severely - by other teams and by his own teammates for his antics. I suppose his late season collapse was karmic justice enough, and I'm pleased to see he'll adopt a more sober tone this year.


Would you also like the damn kids to get off your lawn, or should they stay and listen to how you had to walk 10 miles to school each day, through the snow, uphill both ways?
   48. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 06:06 PM (#2696002)
intimidating

Man you really should get those bifocals fixed old man...Reyes is anything but intimidating. Every time he gets a hit, you'd swear it was the first one of his career. I know it sucks that you root for a shitty team, but that isn't Reyes's fault. Players like Reyes make the game fun.
   49. Jason Kendall's #6,530,420,771 fan (AS) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 06:31 PM (#2696029)
Do you even know what the word "gangland" means?!

This is the most obvious troll in the history of existence, and I can't believe I just fed it.
   50. Esoteric roots for the two worst teams in baseball Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:03 PM (#2696055)
I'm not a troll. I am playing up the cranky old man vibe on purpose, but I'm not a troll. The general thrust - that Reyes' behavior last season was inexcusable, and thoroughly unbecoming of a professional baseball player - is absolutely serious. The hyperbole, well not so much.
   51. Billy Wagner's tears Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:07 PM (#2696059)
I think gangland makes it sound a little more sinister than it is.

I think you'll like this version of Jose, Esoteric, the latest pic I caught he wasn't sporting the braids.

This year he'll be spending less time celebrating and more time kicking your team's ass.
   52. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:16 PM (#2696074)
that Reyes' behavior last season was inexcusable, and thoroughly unbecoming of a professional baseball player - is absolutely serious. The hyperbole, well not so much.

Man, DC really is douche bag central. Tool.
   53. BourbonSamurai Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:16 PM (#2696075)
I quite liked Jose's antics. He just seemed to be having fun playing the game to me, not actively trying to show anyone up. I prefer those kinds of antics to players who toss their bats and stand and stare for ten minutes at a time.
I also always like Nick Swisher and Milton Bradley's elaborate homer handshake/stomping combo.
   54. Billy Wagner's tears Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:18 PM (#2696080)
Oh and enjoy Lastings Milledge, you should be in for a treat, especially if he gets a taste of prolonged success.
   55. Esoteric roots for the two worst teams in baseball Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:32 PM (#2696093)
For the last time: I don't care about braids, hairstyle, any of that crap - that's the sort of superficial junk that seemingly tipped the NY media against Lastings Milledge for the crime, basically, of being a black guy. And Lasting's "home run celebration?" He was a rookie, it was a one-time thing: totally understandable. I'm not being unrealistic. But Reyes is a veteran, and he should know better. That he got away with behavior that most teams and players would clamp down on instantly was pretty pathetic, and all the Mets fans in the world making excuses for Jose because he's "one of our guys" doesn't elide that basic truth. It's just homerism: antics which you would despise in other teams' players become lovable and rationalizable for your guy. Again, that attitude is understandable, and human. But it is wrong, imho.

As for google boy: your language and tone speaks volumes about your character. I'd rather be a bit stuffy than be a smug vulgar foam-fingered superfan.
   56. Exploring Leftist Conservatism since 2008 (ark..) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:39 PM (#2696100)
I love players like Deion Sanders, Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson and Daryl Dawkins. How anyone can say they're bad for the game is beyond me, but I think aversion to such antics is very much a cultural and racial divide.


The first athelete I was aware of who was doing this kind of thing was (white) Mark Gastineau. It just seemed classless. When you sacked the QB, it was fine to enjoy it, but leaping around like an imbecile was bad form, like laughing at your own joke.
   57. maharishi mahesh yogi berra (phredbird) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:42 PM (#2696101)
i generally agree with DC's point of view, though i suppose i wouldn't put it so strongly. also, i can't speak directly to jose reye's antics, since i'm not familiar with exactly what he does ... but if he's doing stuff like too much fist pumping and showing up the other team while he's on the field, it wouldn't bother me if he got plunked in the ribs or something by a pitcher. i really hate the standing and admiring the long ball, and the pointing and stuff. and the reason its become so prevalent is the stupid business of umpires having to eject pitchers who pitch too close. the pendulum really has swung too far. i hate to sound like an old coot, but it really does offend my sense of order. i'm all about the game. i'm just nutty that way i guess ... i was always a big gibson fan for the way he'd put people on their butt if they got a little too comfortable in the batter's box. lord knows we're seeing enough offense these days anyway.
   58. SoSHially Unacceptable Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:48 PM (#2696107)
Yeah, I much prefer the quiet professionalism over look-at-me celebrations. And, surprisingly, I wasn't swayed by google's keen insight in No. 52.
   59. Sparkles Peterson Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:49 PM (#2696109)
Players like Reyes make the game fun.


Especially when the other team gets really sick of it and turns it around on him after beating his team, causing thousands of Mets fans to start whining about sportsmanship.
   60. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2696111)
I'd rather be a bit stuffy than be a smug vulgar foam-fingered superfan.

Yeah, you sound like a blast at parties.

Thanks for reminding me why I avoid your miserable swamp of a city at all costs...

Reyes is not in your face- he does not fist pump, he plays the game with enthusiasm and joy. He encourages his teammates when they win, get a big hit, whatever. He chats up the other teams' players. The incident with the Marlins was the first time I'd heard anyone complain about him, other than being annoyed that he talks to much when he's standing on base. He puts a good face on the franchise, and is a marketable and fan-friendly commodity. The energy will cool as he gets older.

My girlfriend is a very casual fan and Reyes is one of the people that gets her going to and watching games because he's got personality and character out on the field.

You can go back to watching golf any time, I'm sure the sport won't miss you.
   61. ?Donde esta Dagoberto Campaneris? Posted: February 20, 2008 at 07:56 PM (#2696112)
Yeah, I much prefer the quiet professionalism over look-at-me celebrations. And, surprisingly, I wasn't swayed by google's keen insight in No. 52.

Racist!

Motivating your teammates is antics? The guy brings energy to the team.

COUNT THE INTANGIBLEZZZZZZ!!
   62. galaxieboi Posted: February 20, 2008 at 08:01 PM (#2696115)
Wow. I got fooled. I swore DC's ranting first post was satire.
   63. Esoteric roots for the two worst teams in baseball Posted: February 20, 2008 at 08:03 PM (#2696117)
#60 - google boy:

I must admit, I don't understand you. First of all, I'm not in DC. I'm in Chicago. Second of all, this has absolutely nothing to do with "my team" vs. "your team" or "my city" vs. "your city"...you're bringing that element in all by yourself, and it's comically out-of-place. Third, the very things you describe as being innocuous are pretty annoying: chatting the other team's players up all the time is bad sportsmanship, purposefully designed to distract them from the action on the field. Fourth, people have been complaining about Reyes' behavior for quite a long time now, not just since the Marlins incident...that was merely the breaking point.

And finally, I am a blast at parties.
   64. Srul Itza Posted: February 20, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2696119)
The first athelete I was aware of who was doing this kind of thing was (white) Mark Gastineau. It just seemed classless.

Seems madam? Nay, I know not seems. It is.

In the dictionary, next to classless, is a picture of Mark Gastineau.
   65. Esoteric roots for the two worst teams in baseball Posted: February 20, 2008 at 08:04 PM (#2696120)
#62 - galaxieboi:

The gruff ranting tone was intentionally over-the-top "GET OFF MY LAWN!" style, so you're right about that. (Notice the more sober tone in my last few posts.) But the sentiment behind it is real enough.
   66. BTF's left-wing cheering section (formerly_dp) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 08:19 PM (#2696131)
I'm in Chicago.
Sorry. I don't know how such a lovely city produced such a DB. Or DN. Take your pick.

the very things you describe as being innocuous are pretty annoying: chatting the other team's players up all the time is bad sportsmanship, purposefully designed to distract them from the action on the field.

Sometimes. Other times, a guy just can't keep his mouth shut. A lot of guys chat on the bases, it isn't all malicious.

And finally, I am a blast at parties.

I'm not sure you can call those champagne-sipping events at the country club "parties"...but yeah, I'm sure you're great, as long as there's some young punks for you to grab by the collar and scold for their bad grammar...

"If you don't like watching Jose Reyes, you don't like baseball."
- Jesus
   67. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 20, 2008 at 08:51 PM (#2696158)
"If you don't like watching Jose Reyes, you don't like baseball."
- Jesus

More like Jesus Melendez. :)
   68. Robert S. Posted: February 20, 2008 at 09:01 PM (#2696165)
I must be in a contentious mood today. :) I don't understand "veteran's rights" or understand why they are a good thing, anyway. I don't think that Michael Jordan should have been able to walk while some rookie couldn't, that Charles Barkley got called for an offensive foul when a rookie but not as a veteran when he would initiate the contact and bump the defender out of the way, smaller strike zones for "veterans with acknowledged strike zone judgement", all that kind of stuff.

It's not a veteran thing; it's a great player thing. Manny at 29 deserved to stare at his home runs while Youkilis at 29 does not, much like Youkilis at 36 will not.
   69. Raskolnikov Posted: February 20, 2008 at 10:00 PM (#2696215)
I'm not being unrealistic. But Reyes is a veteran, and he should know better. That he got away with behavior that most teams and players would clamp down on instantly was pretty pathetic, and all the Mets fans in the world making excuses for Jose because he's "one of our guys" doesn't elide that basic truth. It's just homerism: antics which you would despise in other teams' players become lovable and rationalizable for your guy. Again, that attitude is understandable, and human. But it is wrong, imho.

Yeah, that's right. People are making excuses for Jose because he's a Met. Did it ever occur to you that perhaps some people enjoy Jose's celebrations?

Art any more than a steward? Dost thou think, because thou art virtuous, there shall be no more cakes and ale?
   70. Billy Wagner's tears Posted: February 20, 2008 at 11:08 PM (#2696261)
Esoteric, I'm just thankful I don't have to work for you. Sounds about as fun as a hunting trip with Dick Cheney. Making up corny high five celebrations is age old and was here well before Jose Reyes. I mean this is stuff I used to do in High School when I was riding the pine.

TO only annoyed me when it became plainly obvious it was all about him. Until that line is crossed I have not a problem in the world with having some fun, no lives are being saved out there(though Donnie Moore has a case).

I also don't get the Manny can be Manny but Jose can't be Jose thing, who says? I don't see where there is some criteria for how you are aloud to celebrate.

Instead of homerism, its hating.

Your about to find out real quick that Lastings has a little Jose in him<insert Piazza joke here>, unfortunately probably due to his race it was considered hip-hop thugery, instead of Lastings being Lastings. But get back to me when Lastings is back spinning on home plate after taking Wags deep to win a game at Shea.

If your employer decides to reign you in, fine, you also have to answer for your antics on the field and I'm perfectly fine with that too.
   71. AJM Misses Brodeur Posted: February 20, 2008 at 11:11 PM (#2696264)
Reyes' stunts REALLY steamed me all last year.

Now I'm really pissed he won't be doing them.
   72. AlouGoodbye Posted: February 20, 2008 at 11:23 PM (#2696273)
There are not enough Twelfth Night references on Primer.
   73. RB in NYC (Now with Christmas Spirit!) Posted: February 20, 2008 at 11:58 PM (#2696289)
God, I was even in Twelfth Night and I didn't catch that reference on first reading. How humiliating.
   74. Benji Posted: February 21, 2008 at 02:19 AM (#2696382)
Oh yes, those handshakes really ruined baseball. And of course, any fun on the field should be stamped out immediately. Just think, if only baseball had cracked down on those horrible exhibitions like the Gashouse Gang, Casey Stengel (as a player), the '86 Mets, Alan Hrabosky and especially that fat disgraceful hot dog bastard Babe Ruth people might have liked the sport. Everything could have been as thrilling as those paramilitary, every game is the Battle of The Bulge, boring Yankee teams of the 40's and 50's.
   75. Edmundo, survivor of 7 right-sourcings Posted: February 21, 2008 at 09:38 AM (#2696422)
I also don't get the Manny can be Manny but Jose can't be Jose thing
Don't project love of "Manny being Manny" on me, please.
I have no problem with exuberant outbursts but elaborate, planned celebrations are too close to taunting for my likes.
   76. Raskolnikov Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:12 AM (#2696430)
Oh yes, those handshakes really ruined baseball. And of course, any fun on the field should be stamped out immediately. Just think, if only baseball had cracked down on those horrible exhibitions like the Gashouse Gang, Casey Stengel (as a player), the '86 Mets, Alan Hrabosky and especially that fat disgraceful hot dog bastard Babe Ruth people might have liked the sport. Everything could have been as thrilling as those paramilitary, every game is the Battle of The Bulge, boring Yankee teams of the 40's and 50's.

Even that is too much. I think fans standing up and clapping and high-fiving each other is a travestmockery of the game. They should be whacked across the knees with nightsticks. Behave like civilized men.
   77. formerly dp Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:26 AM (#2696439)
high-fiving each other is a travestmockery of the game.

It's a crazy world now. In the madness of their excitement, people will often high-five complete and total strangers! Don't they know they can get the aids from promiscuous behavior like that?
   78. Sparkles Peterson Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM (#2696448)
Traveshamockery, get it right.
   79. billyshears Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:01 AM (#2696463)
This whole idea of "showing up" another player is ludicrous. If you do something good, you should be happy about it. Celebrate. If you do something good against me and you celebrate, I'm annoyed that I let you beat me - not that you are celebrating it. If you celebrate excessively for a small achievement, I think that you're an idiot - not that you're showing me up. In baseball, nine times out of ten, if a player feels like somebody is showing him up, the problem is with that player - not the guy doing the "showing up."
   80. CrosbyBird Posted: February 21, 2008 at 03:04 PM (#2696711)
I loved the Reyes dances but I can see how they could be perceived as unsportsmanlike by opposing players and fans. I don't believe he was intending to show up anyone, but he probably should tone down the stuff done out of the dugout.

There was a game last year where Reyes was dancing on the bench next to Wright and Wright started bopping a little bit with him, and I think that sort of stuff is really good for the game. I think if Reyes kept most of his celebrations to the dugout, everyone could be happy.

I really hope he doesn't lose that entertainment value completely. I especially hope he doesn't stop smiling; he's my favorite player in baseball because he looks like he's having such a great time.
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